Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 100

Thread: Is a talent for art natural or learnable?

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    lukey120292 is offline Registered User Level 2 Gladiator: Ordinarii
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    56
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Is a talent for art natural or learnable?

    Hello, i am 16 years old and have been into art all my life, and would like to be a concept artist ( or something along those lines ) when i leave my years of education, this is my first post, but will soon be posting work on these boards!

    Anyway. i am just wondering about Art, and learning art, I am considered by my friends and art class/teacher the 'Arty' Student in the school and have a natural love and talent for Art. when somebody asks me for some help, weather is be somebody in my family, a friend at school and so on, i always struggle to be able to help the majority of people. i will explain the most basic of ideas and no matter how me, or my art teacher explains it, they will never pick it up, and can never get it down on paper.

    Which gets me thinking, is art really something you can learn? I mean yes you can learn it to an extent, but in my honest opinion, you need that something to understand Art pick it up efficiently and a solid natural understanding of which you can build up from and have a great advantage.

    I just find people who have said ' i have always been good at art' always seem to be the ones who can learn so much faster, and get a better all around grasp on the conceptuality of art.

    Thanks for reading.

  2. #2
    Qitsune's Avatar
    Qitsune is offline Some pros are lazy Level 14 Gladiator: Dimacheri
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    3,233
    Thanks
    860
    Thanked 846 Times in 457 Posts
    I HAVE to repeat the Elwell quote here :"Everyone can learn to ride a bicycle, but not everyone can be Lance Armstrong."

    Everyone can draw, but not everyone has the natural ability to learn or the headstrongness required to overcome the lack of natural ability. Some people will always learn faster than others, but even then they might give up. If you have a natural ability, it just means the hard work you will put in will show even more. But you will still need hard work.
    Last edited by Qitsune; April 16th, 2008 at 07:14 PM.

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to Qitsune For This Useful Post:


  4. #3
    Elwell's Avatar
    Elwell is offline Sticks Like Grim Death
    Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hudson River valley, NY
    Posts
    16,213
    Thanks
    4,879
    Thanked 16,660 Times in 5,018 Posts
    It's like any other skill. Think about it the same way you would math, or music, or sports. Most people, with enough effort and the proper instruction, can reach a basic level of proficiency. Some people have a natural physical/mental advantage, and can learn much more easily and progress farther. Some people have a physical/mental handicap, and will never be able to do some things.

    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Elwell For This Useful Post:


  6. #4
    Vhan Juju's Avatar
    Vhan Juju is offline Just another developing teenage artist. Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    588
    Thanks
    25
    Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts
    Talent is the cultivation of your passion.

  7. #5
    Wooly ESS's Avatar
    Wooly ESS is offline personal reinventor and observer of life Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Southern Alberta
    Posts
    595
    Thanks
    113
    Thanked 405 Times in 163 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Vhan Juju View Post
    Talent is the cultivation of your passion.
    I was just about to say the same thing! I disagree that a "talent" for art (or anything else) is innate. We just have an interest in something (art, sports, music), and if we immerse ourselves in it, pretty soon folks are saying we are talented in that field. But is that talent innate, or a byproduct of our 24/7 indulgence in the subject?

    What may be innate is the ability to feel passion. Talent is the byproduct of that passion.

    I know many people who seem incapable of passion. They are pretty dull, and usually talentless.

    If you have a passion for art, talent will follow.
    The truth will set you free,
    but first it's gonna piss you off!

    Website
    www.ceandersonart.com

    Facebook
    http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Ed-...47726545290769

  8. #6
    Elwell's Avatar
    Elwell is offline Sticks Like Grim Death
    Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hudson River valley, NY
    Posts
    16,213
    Thanks
    4,879
    Thanked 16,660 Times in 5,018 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Wooly ESS View Post
    I disagree that a "talent" for art (or anything else) is innate.
    Really?
    So there's nothing inherently different or special about Tiger Woods, Bobby Fisher, Stephen Hawking, Michael Jordan, Bob Dylan, Meryl Streep, Jack Kirby...?

    Thinking that anybody can be exceptional at anything as long as they work hard enough is as much of a fallacy as saying some people don't have to work hard at all to be exceptional.

    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron

  9. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Elwell For This Useful Post:


  10. #7
    Ilaekae's Avatar
    Ilaekae is offline P.O.W.! Leader, Complete Idiot, Super Moderator Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Southwestern Pennsylvania
    Posts
    7,133
    Thanks
    8,223
    Thanked 5,571 Times in 1,784 Posts
    Talent exists in all fields. Natural specific aptitude exists in all fields. It can be wasted by lack of training or laziness.

    There is such a thing as talent. Some people have it, and some don't. Get over it.
    No position or belief, whether religious, political or social, is valid if one has to lie to support it.--Alj Mary

    Ironically, the concept of SIMPLICITY is most often misunderstood by simple-minded people. --Alj Mary

  11. #8
    dbclemons is offline Registered User Level 7 Gladiator: Samnite
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    843
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked 225 Times in 153 Posts
    The definition of "talent" is an inate natural ability. It's not the same thing as learning a skill, but rather that certain skills supposedly come easier for some than they do for others.

    My personal view is that being good at something is not some special gift, but the result of hard work and dedication. "Talent" alone is not enough. It's conceiveable to me that there may be some biological gene that controls our facility for certain things, but that still doesn't make the end result magically appear. You might be a potentially fast runner, but you still have to train.
    Last edited by dbclemons; April 17th, 2008 at 08:07 AM. Reason: grammar
    David B. Clemons
    Website
    Blog

  12. #9
    lukey120292 is offline Registered User Level 2 Gladiator: Ordinarii
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    56
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    I disagree that a "talent" for art (or anything else) is innate

    I kind of disagree also, although i respect your opinion.

    Theres always people who stand out weather it be, art, maths, football...anything.
    Take me for example, i played basketball for about 4 years, purely out of joy did i play. but i never got any good, even though i dedicated to it simply because i enjoyed it. but i never shined.

    In my opinion everybody is born with a profession that suits them.
    You could take a talentless individual to the best artist in the world and i bet he would learn very little in comparison to somebody who naturally grasps the concept of art.

  13. #10
    Flake's Avatar
    Flake is offline Registered User Level 14 Gladiator: Dimacheri
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    3,430
    Thanks
    643
    Thanked 1,484 Times in 719 Posts
    Where does this insistence that "talent" does not exist come from? It's bizarre.

    We are not unique and beautiful snowflakes with infinite capacity to do anything our heart desires.
    Different people are hardwired to be better at some things than others.
    I never forget a face, Mrs Flake never forgets a phone number..

    No amount of practice or enthusiasm will ever see me as a composer or champion UFC fighter, I am simply not equipped to do this. I have a poor sense of pitch and a low tolerance for being punched in the face.

    It's not a politically correct theory but the evidence is all around us if you care to look.
    Last edited by Flake; April 19th, 2008 at 09:11 AM.

  14. #11
    kev ferrara is offline Diamond Bullet Level 16 Gladiator: Spartacus' Retiarii
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Fallingwater
    Posts
    4,982
    Thanks
    1,513
    Thanked 5,116 Times in 1,684 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Flake View Post
    Where does this insistence that "talent" does not exist come from? It's bizarre.
    Easy: The "68'ers" have "marched through the institutions" of the west (As per Gramsci's dictum) and taken over the culture. Now there are no adults around to stop them from spewing their received Dogma . Some of them don't even know why they believe and say the things they do, like "there is no such thing as talent", because they only received the following from second and third hand sources...

    Antonio Gramsci (1891-1937), a Marxist intellectual and politician. Despite his enormous influence on today’s politics, he remains far less well-known to most Americans than does Tocqueville.

    Gramsci’s main legacy arises through his departures from orthodox Marxism. Like Marx, he argued that all societies in human history have been divided into two basic groups: the privileged and the marginalized, the oppressor and the oppressed, the dominant and the subordinate. Gramsci expanded Marx’s ranks of the "oppressed" into categories that still endure. As he wrote in his famous Prison Notebooks, "The marginalized groups of history include not only the economically oppressed, but also women, racial minorities and many ‘criminals.’" What Marx and his orthodox followers described as "the people," Gramsci describes as an "ensemble" of subordinate groups and classes in every society that has ever existed until now. This collection of oppressed and marginalized groups — "the people" — lack unity and, often, even consciousness of their own oppression. To reverse the correlation of power from the privileged to the "marginalized," then, was Gramsci’s declared goal.

    Power, in Gramsci’s observation, is exercised by privileged groups or classes in two ways: through domination, force, or coercion; and through something called "hegemony," which means the ideological supremacy of a system of values that supports the class or group interests of the predominant classes or groups. Subordinate groups, he argued, are influenced to internalize the value systems and world views of the privileged groups and, thus, to consent to their own marginalization.

    Far from being content with a mere uprising, therefore, Gramsci believed that it was necessary first to delegitimize the dominant belief systems of the predominant groups and to create a "counter-hegemony" (i.e., a new system of values for the subordinate groups) before the marginalized could be empowered. Moreover, because hegemonic values permeate all spheres of civil society -- schools, churches, the media, voluntary associations -- civil society itself, he argued, is the great battleground in the struggle for hegemony, the "war of position." From this point, too, followed a corollary for which Gramsci should be known (and which is echoed in the feminist slogan) — that all life is "political." Thus, private life, the work place, religion, philosophy, art, and literature, and civil society, in general, are contested battlegrounds in the struggle to achieve societal transformation.

    It is perhaps here that one sees Gramsci’s most important reexamination of Marx’s thought. Classical Marxists implied that a revolutionary consciousness would simply develop from the objective (and oppressive) material conditions of working class life. Gramsci disagreed, noting that "there have always been exploiters and exploited" — but very few revolutions per se. In his analysis, this was because subordinate groups usually lack the "clear theoretical consciousness" necessary to convert the "structure of repression into one of rebellion and social reconstruction." Revolutionary "consciousness" is crucial. Unfortunately, the subordinate groups possess "false consciousness," that is to say, they accept the conventional assumptions and values of the dominant groups, as "legitimate." But real change, he continued to believe, can only come about through the transformation of consciousness.

    Just as Gramsci’s analysis of consciousness is more nuanced than Marx’s, so too is his understanding of the role of intellectuals in that process. Marx had argued that for revolutionary social transformation to be successful, the world views of the predominant groups must first be unmasked as instruments of domination. In classical Marxism, this crucial task of demystifying and delegitimizing the ideological hegemony of the dominant groups is performed by intellectuals. Gramsci, more subtly, distinguishes between two types of intellectuals: "traditional" and "organic." What subordinate groups need, Gramsci maintains, are their own "organic intellectuals." However, the defection of "traditional" intellectuals from the dominant groups to the subordinate groups, he held, is also important, because traditional intellectuals who have "changed sides" are well positioned within established institutions.

    The metaphysics behind this Gramscian worldview are familiar enough. Gramsci describes his position as "absolute historicism," meaning that morals, values, truths, standards and human nature itself are products of different historical epochs. There are no absolute moral standards that are universally true for all human beings outside of a particular historical context; rather, morality is "socially constructed."

    Historically, Antonio Gramsci’s thought shares features with other writers who are classified as "Hegelian Marxists" — the Hungarian Marxist Georg Lukacs, the German thinker Karl Korsch, and members of the "Frankfurt School" (e.g., Theodor Adorno and Herbert Marcuse), a group of theorists associated with the Institute for Social Research founded in Frankfurt, Germany in the 1920s, some of whom attempted to synthesize the thinking of Marx and Freud. All emphasized that the decisive struggle to overthrow the bourgeois regime (that is, middle-class liberal democracy) would be fought out at the level of consciousness. That is, the old order had to be rejected by its citizens intellectually and morally before any real transfer of power to the subordinate groups could be achieved.
    Somewhere along the way, quality and talent were determined to be hierarchical and "socially constructed" ideas and thus bits of "false consciousness" that don't really exist.... except as useful tools of psychological hegemony used by "the man" to oppress dissenting culture.

    In 1923, in Germany, a group of Marxists founded an institute devoted to making the translation, the Institute of Social Research (later known as the Frankfurt School). One of its founders, George Lukacs, stated its purpose as answering the question, “Who shall save us from Western Civilization?” At a meeting in Germany in 1923, “Lukacs proposed the concept of inducing “Cultural Pessimism” in order to increase the state of hopelessness and alienation in the people of the West as a necessary prerequisite for revolution.”
    Last edited by kev ferrara; April 16th, 2008 at 09:56 PM.
    At least Icarus tried!


    My Process: Dead Rider Graphic Novel (Dark Horse Comics) plus oil paintings, pencils and other goodies:
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=101106

    My "Smilechild" Music. Plus a medley of Commercial Music Cues and a Folksy Jingle!:
    http://www.myspace.com/kevferrara

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to kev ferrara For This Useful Post:


  16. #12
    Chris Bennett's Avatar
    Chris Bennett is offline Registered User Level 11 Gladiator: Essedarii
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,949
    Thanks
    1,331
    Thanked 1,911 Times in 751 Posts
    Talent means that your brain is wired up to be more efficient at certain tasks. As someone has already said, Tiger Woods' talent was for swinging golf clubs. My mother has drawings I made when I was 4yrs old that were using perspective and drawing figures without ready made symbols. My earliest memories are of wondering why other kids put blue lines at to top of the page for sky when I was drawing trains coming at you out of tunnels. At that stage I did not 'practice' - I was just good at reinterpreting the world as graphic patterns.
    I stopped drawing at about 15 when I thought I wanted to be an engineer only to start again at 21 when I quit University. Here's the interesting bit: When I resumed I was no better than when I stopped at 15 and I was rejected by Art school because I was not good enough. I spent one year doing nothing but painting an drawing and at the end of it re-submitted to the art school system and was taken on by the most prestigious school in the country, The Slade School. This simply would not have been possible had I not had an artistic 'eye for the ball'. It would also not have been possible without flat out, foot to the floor, intesity of work and determination. It's like fuel and a good engine - you need both to make a decent racing car.
    From Gegarin's point of view
    http://www.chrisbennettartist.co.uk/

  17. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Chris Bennett For This Useful Post:


  18. #13
    Wooly ESS's Avatar
    Wooly ESS is offline personal reinventor and observer of life Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Southern Alberta
    Posts
    595
    Thanks
    113
    Thanked 405 Times in 163 Posts
    My post seems to have generated some heat.

    So much so, that I feel the need to clarify.

    1) I absolutely believe that talent exists in varying amounts over a wide variety of human activities. What I doubt is that talent is innate.

    2) I absolutely believe that humans are NOT born alike. They are born with an ability to feel passion in widely varying degrees and toward an infinite variety of subjects.

    3) Talent is the external manifestation of passion. Its expression is the result of desire and circumstance.

    I don't mind being crapped on for my opinions, but please have the decency to get them right.

    A good subject for another discussion would be, "Do you believe you have innate talent as an artist?"
    The truth will set you free,
    but first it's gonna piss you off!

    Website
    www.ceandersonart.com

    Facebook
    http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Ed-...47726545290769

  19. #14
    b1_ is offline Registered User Level 1 Gladiator: Andabatae
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    13
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
    I'm with Wooly ESS on this one. I think you guys are mistaking talent for a particular activity, with a general aptitude at a wide range of activities. I mean, Tiger Woods did not pop out of the womb and immediately start swinging the golf club perfectly - don't be ridiculous. He has good hand eye coordination, a physique that lends itself to athleticism, no physical flaws that might handicap his swing, he had a father who was a golf instructor guiding him from childhood and he practiced his arse off to get good.

    It is not helpful to the young to think that there is this magical thing called talent, and that if you don't have it you will never be world class. When I was 16 I wish someone had told me this because I would have been helpful. When you're that age you look up to famous people and think I could never be like them but that is bullshit! Believe and it will happen. Unless you're mentally handicapped or a cripple you have just as much chance as anyone else to be world class. All you have to do is ask a world class talent what they were doing when they were 16, how much work did they have to do to get where they are today etc. I think you'll find that they were once just an ordinary Joe with a passion.

    It's even easier now-a-days with internet and it's wealth of information. You can very quickly find out what the best books are to read, and if you can't afford books there's tons of free information available, this site being a point of example.

    If you wanna get good, be passionate and even obsessive, read and absorb, practice practice practice, and never ever believe that only the 'talented' make it - what rot!
    '...fashion everything
    From nothing everyday, and teach
    The morning stars to sing'
    -William Butler Yeats

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to b1_ For This Useful Post:


  21. #15
    B u r l's Avatar
    B u r l is offline Registered User Level 7 Gladiator: Samnite
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Manchester, England
    Posts
    930
    Thanks
    900
    Thanked 589 Times in 198 Posts
    I do believe in natural talent, but without very hard work it will begin to show less and less as you get older beacuse I think, for the most part, it can only be milked so far as time goes on. To achieve the quality of the old Masters, a combination of raw natural talent and a stupendous amount of hard work is required. Hand-in-hand. As what's already been said, natural talent is just the ability to learn things quicker than others, to instinctivly do something that other's would not..
    Last edited by B u r l; April 17th, 2008 at 12:34 PM.

  22. #16
    Puck's Avatar
    Puck is offline Registered User Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Kiama, Australia
    Posts
    577
    Thanks
    167
    Thanked 147 Times in 74 Posts
    I think talent is overrated. If talent where a strong phenomenon then somebody 'talented' in art, who never picked up a pencil when they were young, could start to learn how to draw when they reached adulthood and find it easier than the average person. I don't believe that would be the case, I think the skills developed in youth lay the groundwork for what people call 'talent'.

    I think that when most 'talented artists' were very young they were doodling and sketching while their brains were developing, and then as they grew they continued to draw constantly and where usually motivated by positive reinforcement from their peers and elders. The same with sport and music and any skill – while there are many physical and mental handicaps that might prevent a person from ever developing 'talent' – I believe the average person can achieve very high levels of skill if the right groundwork was laid.

    So in my opinion, while talent doesn't exist in an innate sense, the important developmental stage in which skills are primed is usually before a conscious age, and it may be extremely difficult or impossible to remedy a deficit in this early training with focused study at a later age. Perhaps 'talent' is the predisposition to pick up the pencil at a young age in the first place, though that might just be parental influence or circumstance.

  23. #17
    J Wilson's Avatar
    J Wilson is offline Zombie Hunter Level 12 Gladiator: Laqueatores
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Haven, CT
    Posts
    2,081
    Thanks
    323
    Thanked 967 Times in 519 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Puck View Post
    I think talent is overrated. If talent where a strong phenomenon then somebody 'talented' in art, who never picked up a pencil when they were young, could start to learn how to draw when they reached adulthood and find it easier than the average person. I don't believe that would be the case, I think the skills developed in youth lay the groundwork for what people call 'talent'.

    I think that when most 'talented artists' were very young they were doodling and sketching while their brains were developing, and then as they grew they continued to draw constantly and where usually motivated by positive reinforcement from their peers and elders. The same with sport and music and any skill – while there are many physical and mental handicaps that might prevent a person from ever developing 'talent' – I believe the average person can achieve very high levels of skill if the right groundwork was laid.

    So in my opinion, while talent doesn't exist in an innate sense, the important developmental stage in which skills are primed is usually before a conscious age, and it may be extremely difficult or impossible to remedy a deficit in this early training with focused study at a later age. Perhaps 'talent' is the predisposition to pick up the pencil at a young age in the first place, though that might just be parental influence or circumstance.
    I have to disagree. I did not grow up with my father around, and so I had little to no way to know he was an artist as well. Yet there must have been some biological inclination towards art, because here I am, drawing and painting. So whether it's "talent" or merely an interest I do believe that it can be hardwired (but doesn't have to be, other factors can create that interest as well). What you DO with it most likely does boil down to drive though. I've known talented artists that never tried hard enough, and I've known less talented artists that worked their ass off. My potential out performed my dad's because I had the chance to see where it would go. There is no getting really good without a great deal of effort, but a little "talent" does make it easier to stick with.

  24. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Hamburg, Germany
    Posts
    900
    Thanks
    608
    Thanked 437 Times in 239 Posts
    I'd rather not call it talent, but the passion or drive for something. Obviously, if you're totally crazy about something and doing nothing else all day, you'll learn and improve very quickly.
    A friend of mine who paints really darn well once said, "there you practice your ass off and then people blame the results on 'talent'".

  25. The Following User Says Thank You to Maidith For This Useful Post:


  26. #19
    Farvus's Avatar
    Farvus is offline - Marek Tarnawski -
    Level 16 Gladiator: Spartacus' Retiarii
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Gdansk, Poland
    Posts
    4,839
    Thanks
    887
    Thanked 1,568 Times in 754 Posts
    I believe that natural talent exists but I'm not sure that it needs to extend over everything connected with drawing. Concept art, illustration, comics, animation, storyboards, blabla.., often needs something more than just doing pretty pictures. Someone's highest potential in drawing/painting skills can be mediocre in comparison to talented person but there is also storytelling skills, talent for designing technical stuff, flexibility and other minor abilities that also count. You can make good use of them, find your most suitable path and still be good.
    Last edited by Farvus; April 17th, 2008 at 12:50 PM.

  27. #20
    Vhan Juju's Avatar
    Vhan Juju is offline Just another developing teenage artist. Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    588
    Thanks
    25
    Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts
    "Its a great thing when you find out you are NOT something"-a old man I talked too.

    I believe I can see Bennett's point here. To many kids are inflated with a whole lotta BS, then they grad...and nothing.

    You have to be real about this. Forget "Dare to dream" I don't care who you are, or what dream you have, it means nothing. You suck untill further notice. "Dare to make your dream a reality", ok, now you have a chanse.

    Too many kids get told the first, and ingore that last part. "Work hard to be a good artist" "You will be a great artist if you practice enoughf"
    "etc, etc, etc, You will Become a great artist"

    When the question that ought to be asked more often is "When did you realise that you were an artist?"

    Ask that question on a art campus and watch it stop people dead in thier tracks, and some of the lame half-answers you will get will make you chuckle in your head as you walk away.

    "When you realise that you don't simpley play the violoin, but that you are a voilinist, you can't just simply play with the high school orchestra anymore, you realise that you are different, and you will keep growing with that, and seeking out new challanges to grow on" -Old man I talked Too.

    This is were "talent" seperates the few from the many. There are suckers like me everywere, we just want to draw, just want to do "pretty kewl pictures" to impress our peers, because its "the cool creative thing to do" or just want the "technical skills"

    But there are those who actually feel art, and what it means to them. It speaks to them if you will and they let it consume them, and have a leading role in thier life. That is what you will see with these "talented" individuals. They allow themselfs to suffer for it, because they are that consumed. And that shows in thier work.

    -Vj
    --thoughts from a teenager...

    Edit: ok, so that "suffer for it" is a little extreme...maybe I should have said "starveing artist" but I think you guys get my point. lol.
    Last edited by Vhan Juju; April 17th, 2008 at 01:01 PM.

  28. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Vhan Juju For This Useful Post:


  29. #21
    B u r l's Avatar
    B u r l is offline Registered User Level 7 Gladiator: Samnite
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Manchester, England
    Posts
    930
    Thanks
    900
    Thanked 589 Times in 198 Posts
    I think my older brother got the hard end of childhood fairy tails. He was always regarded as talented throughout primary and high school, and once he got into college his balls shrank when he finally saw people who could produce much better quality work than he could. He eventually dropped out simply because he was not the best there. I'm constantly reminded of his way of thinking when he tells me to drop out of college because there were people in his class who are better than me. Now he does nothing, and maybe the odd drawing once a month to prove to himself he's an awesome drawer. :/
    Last edited by B u r l; April 17th, 2008 at 01:21 PM.

  30. #22
    Vhan Juju's Avatar
    Vhan Juju is offline Just another developing teenage artist. Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    588
    Thanks
    25
    Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts
    I think my older brother got the hard end of childhood fairy tails. He was always regarded as talented throughout primary and high school, and once he got into college his balls shrank when he finally saw people who could produce much better quality work than he could. He eventually dropped out simply because he was not the best there. I'm constantly reminded of his way of thinking when he tells me to drop out of college because there were people in his class who are better than me. Now he does nothing, and maybe the odd drawing once a month to prove to himself he's an awesome drawer. :/
    My point exactley...

  31. #23
    arttorney's Avatar
    arttorney is offline Are friends electric, only? Level 14 Gladiator: Dimacheri
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Pasadena, CA
    Posts
    3,323
    Thanks
    172
    Thanked 873 Times in 528 Posts
    Burl- The thing Chris Bennett was saying about talking to a student concerning the scope of his voice is something I wish a good teacher could do for your brother, with the following tweak: Rather than "big" or "small" voice, I might try to talk about directions.

    Larry Walker desperately wanted to be a hockey goalie. A coach, who saw he had talent but might be slightly misdirecting it, was honest that he would never make the big leagues in hockey and should try another sport. He went on to win a National League batting title in baseball.

    It's possible that your brother can find some form of art that his talents hit directly on point, that have nothing to do with the types of work those other students were making. Art money can be made in patent drawings of machine parts. Art money can be made in assemblage pieces composed of found objects (See George Herms). Art money can be made in Sunday paper cartoons. Your brother may just need to see which key he sings best in. That's one of the cool things about practicing different media and styles for a while before settling into a fixed idea of what key and genre you sing in. The horrible thing about talent is that it doesn't come with an instruction manual.

  32. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to arttorney For This Useful Post:


  33. #24
    lukey120292 is offline Registered User Level 2 Gladiator: Ordinarii
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    56
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    It also makes me angry when people complain about the low pay artists or, concept artists receive.

    Somebody who is doing art for money only should not be in the art industry
    having a job as a successful artist with plenty of compliments and enough money for a house and my family would make me happier than any millionaire who won the lottery and is talentless.

    Art is what makes me happy and ever since i touched that paper with my pencil i have continued to learn, create and draw. nothing makes me happier

  34. #25
    Qitsune's Avatar
    Qitsune is offline Some pros are lazy Level 14 Gladiator: Dimacheri
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    3,233
    Thanks
    860
    Thanked 846 Times in 457 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by lukey120292 View Post
    It also makes me angry when people complain about the low pay artists or, concept artists receive.
    ...
    Art is what makes me happy and ever since i touched that paper with my pencil i have continued to learn, create and draw. nothing makes me happier
    That has to be one of the most ignorant things I have read on this site and I have been here a few years. Do skilled workers deserve less money because they enjoy what they do? Should your boss meet you every year and ask you if you have fun working and then lower your wage accordingly?

    Art as a career requires hard work, rare skills, dedication and often a costly education. There is no reason an artist, be she a fine artist, illustrator, animator or sign painter should make any less money than a plumber, a cop or any other profession where the competition is less steep and the dedication required also way less.

    Way back when (back in the apprenticeship days) painting, illustrating, sculpting was considered a craft, not an art and no one would have dreamed of paying painters any less than they would a carpenter or a stonemason.

    Quote Originally Posted by lukey120292 View Post
    Somebody who is doing art for money only should not be in the art industry having a job as a successful artist with plenty of compliments and enough money for a house and my family would make me happier than any millionaire who won the lottery and is talentless.
    My answer to that is that someone who is doing art to have compliments should not be in the art industry. They should become hookers and leave artists and artisans the heck alone.

  35. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Qitsune For This Useful Post:


  36. #26
    sve's Avatar
    sve is offline likes blue color Level 16 Gladiator: Spartacus' Retiarii
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    4,913
    Thanks
    130
    Thanked 200 Times in 123 Posts
    As for me, everything goes: money, compliments, good feeling about yourself, psychotherapy, fame, wanting to try something new, ambitions, be better then some guy you used to know... all good.

    Talent is a real thing IMO. I see confirmation of it on this site. I saw several people starting three years ago and how far they went and how natural talent affected the results and how hard work did. Natural talent is ability to notice things and have not trivial, interesting ideas. It is a lot about personality of the creator, opening yourself for a stranger to see and judge, giving taste of your soul.

    Hard work is persistently following rules IMO.

  37. #27
    Ilaekae's Avatar
    Ilaekae is offline P.O.W.! Leader, Complete Idiot, Super Moderator Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Southwestern Pennsylvania
    Posts
    7,133
    Thanks
    8,223
    Thanked 5,571 Times in 1,784 Posts
    Which would explain why some of the great cathedrals of Europe came crashing down a few times during construction...

    You get what you pay for...
    No position or belief, whether religious, political or social, is valid if one has to lie to support it.--Alj Mary

    Ironically, the concept of SIMPLICITY is most often misunderstood by simple-minded people. --Alj Mary

  38. #28
    Costau D is offline C'est la vie Level 9 Gladiator: Hoplomachi
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,350
    Thanks
    223
    Thanked 432 Times in 156 Posts
    Reality can bite. Just bite back.

  39. #29
    biscuitninja is offline Designing what I'D like.... Level 2 Gladiator: Ordinarii
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Behind the Orange Curtain - THE OC
    Posts
    85
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    My skillset is slighly different. Since i'm a engineer, it boils down to thinking, abstract problems, how can you see problems from a different direction.

    Some people see it differently than you do, but they both satisify the problem.... What really sets the people apart is that they catch onto concepts quickly and can apply them without any issues or though. The rest of us... well we have to work a little harder to understand.

    I have taught math for a few years and have a semi-unique ability to see the solution and work backwards to the question. Not alot of people have this and they think i'm a super smart... not really its just my brain operates differently, they have some talents I could not even begin to match...(like all you super Artistic people... dammit, I have to work HARD at it! (*grumble grumble*) ha ha

    -bix
    A little of this and that, hopefully nothing explodes right away....

  40. #30
    Kfeeras's Avatar
    Kfeeras is offline Antonio R. Level 9 Gladiator: Hoplomachi
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Munich
    Posts
    1,354
    Thanks
    338
    Thanked 420 Times in 249 Posts
    I think if you have the passion, determination and discipline to keep working on it, you'll be fine, you won't starve. If you really want it.

    Maybe you need that extra "talent" (god i HATE this word) to become famous. I don't know a lot of famous concept artists, let's say h.r. giger, who are known to people who aren't in the niche. So getting famous shouldn't be the aim.

    So.... do really not waste your thoughts on talent, and finish those colorstudies you left unfinished before you started browsing the forums.

    cheers

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. is creativity a learnable skill
    By AdamDillabo in forum THE ARTIST LOUNGE
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: October 23rd, 2007, 06:52 PM
  2. Natural Selection 2
    By TAD Admissions: Scott Richeson in forum Freelance Jobs
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: October 23rd, 2007, 02:07 PM
  3. Natural Eye by S.E.E.
    By Craig Houghton in forum FINISHED ARTWORK- Finally!
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: July 6th, 2005, 02:43 PM
  4. Natural Ambience
    By Angrymikko in forum FINISHED ARTWORK- Finally!
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: May 8th, 2005, 03:06 PM
  5. how do i get a natural wetness? :P
    By N3W8I3 in forum PAINTER™
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: January 8th, 2003, 09:22 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •