Stuff White People Like

[s.ketch]

Leading off topic.
Are you saying people shouldn't be offended. I'm happy that word, as long as it survived, is slowly fading. But words dont die. The N word was apart of the movement. Such as signs of hate in Alabama and Atlanta. And still is apart of the movement. Al Shapton has sat down with both Rappers and Don Imus. Plus how BET use to contridict itself, their new president is making a change. Now Al Shapton shouldn't be the only one to handle every matter. And he made that point. But saying racial slurs are the least important is disgusting. If someone at some job said "nappy headed hos". No media no Al Sharpton. Black or White. That person should still be held acountable. Even before Al Sharpton got envolved it was a problem. I love the fact people who are not black get offend by hearing its use and thats how it should be. Its another step foward for everyone. Its use should be done by ignorant pricks who don't know better. All we have to do now is teach them.

No, people are going to be offended, always. But compared to what serious social injustices probably occur, some idiot spouting insults are very minor and almost silly to make a big fuss over. There are definitely bigger fish to fry, and acting like the only and biggest social injustices that occur are people saying the "N" word is very detrimental to the movement. It discredits Al Sharpton, and any positive actions he does, when he's trying to sue or take the job of someone every few days for saying something immature. In a perfect world people would have thick skin and be able to shrug off asinine comments by ignorant people, but I understand that words have more meaning and more impact to some people than others.

Now we could add another five pages to this thread talking about where the line should be drawn when it comes to what people should be allowed, or not allowed to say. Freedom of Speech is a very slippery slope and I think its best left at "Your personal freedom ends where it treads on other's personal freedoms" and I think thats where serious hazing and verbal abuse comes in. If anything people should feel ashamed to say such things rather than be forced not to say them.

[Elwell]

I am! Fix it, Im dyslexic.

Don Imus didn't break any laws. He was fired by a corporation, not prosecuted by a government. The only circumstance in the US where there are "laws against racial slurs" is hate crimes legislation, and there the speech itself isn't a crime, it's an aggravating factor that allows harsher punishment for an actual crime.

[Micaiah Nelson]

I guess I was a little to broad of thinking. Its also illegal under racial harrasment and I dont understand why he was hired again.

Now we could add another five pages to this thread talking about where the line should be drawn when it comes to what people should be allowed, or not allowed to say. Freedom of Speech is a very slippery slope and I think its best left at "Your personal freedom ends where it treads on other's personal freedoms" and I think thats where serious hazing and verbal abuse comes in. If anything people should feel ashamed to say such things rather than be forced not to say them.

Completly agree! I think at times Al Sharpton isn't strong enough and doesnt get to the subjects that matter.
Lets end the off topic discussions here. No point getting into it.

[Peter Coene]

'cause black culture is struggling with that very issue , to recapture a stolen identity. was yours stolen or merely folded into a new way of life?

Those currently here had nothing stolen. Sure, their ancestor 200 years ago might have. Those trying to "recapture a stolen identity" are actively turning down the opportunity that is being offered them of a shared identity.

As for mine, it is currently being stolen. I thought of myself and all others born here or having earned their citizenship as Americans. Not "African Americans" not "Asian Americans" "Mexican Americans" "white Americans" or anything other than "American." However, each time a group chooses to keep itself sepparate, to identify themselves as anything else that unified identity becomes destroyed, little by little. It is at the point that yes, my identity has to be refolded and made a new way of life. Instead of being an American who happens to be white I have to be a white American. If that is what I am then so be it, but at least let me and the other white Americans be proud of who we are.

slave abduction experience is not the same as the poor immigrant experience.

Yes, and I'm sure that the blacks currently in America personally have that experience.

Also, check your history. Do you think that we just walked into Africa and rounded them up? We got slaves as a result of their tribal wars taking prisoners. Yes, it was wrong of us to take them as slaves but fact of the matter is that they have other Africans to blame for making them slaves, we just made the difference of whether they would have black masters or white masters. Once again, I'm not condoning it, but thats what happened so I'd appreciate it if people would stop blaming whites for everything.

is white culture desperately seeking a unifying identity?
not that im aware of (outside of radical groups)... it just isn't important to
most whites.

Thats because they've been brainwashed into beleiving that if they seek a unifying white identity they are somehow racist scum in league with the Nazis and KKK. Nobody wants that stigma so they continue to turn away and pretend nothings wrong.

what would we band together for?

Because thats one of the defining factors of what makes a culture a culture. Culture stems from civilization, and civilization is a result of people banding together and instead of thinking only of themselves (like prehistoric hunter gatherers) working together.

personaly as someone who appears caucasian, i haven't experienced this
oppression of whites...and the injustice you speak of.

Thats good for you. As for me, untill half way through middle school I grew up in a mostly hispanic community. If I was pushed arround for being a gringo kid it was common policy to look the other way. If it got too rough, as it occasionally did with some of the other white kids, everyone involved would get in trouble for fighting. However, if the white kid fought back and won the other kid would twist his story and the white kid would be in trouble for racial reasons.

After a while, after I had come home with enough heartbreaking stories about having been mercilessly picked on and teased, my parents decided to move our family to a nearby town where whites had a slight majority. I stayed there throughout the rest of middle school, high school, and one year of JC. I wasn't teased for my race any more, but instead found that any student writing a paper about how horrible the white majority is got better grades, that white people were eager to put their own race down to please the politically correct.

Now I live near LA, a city where overall there is no majority. However, if you are white and you walk through certain sections at night you are asking to be mugged.

and what would this band do?
i dont like the sound of that...would we have to wear uniforms?

Oh come on, I'm just suggesting some racial pride ammong white people, not a paramilitary organization. Basically all it would do is give individuals a sense of pride and belonging... and maybe lobby for the discontinued exclusive use of white people when portraying nerds, fat people, hated politicians, innept bosses, cruel exclusive cliques, stupid jocks, and bullies in the media.

Lets face it, despite our screwups white Americans have a lot to be proud of.

[aesir]

nice post peter.

[s.ketch]

slavery deemed unconstitutional: 1865
segregation deemed unconstitutional: 1968

2008-1968 = 40.

So anyone born between 1865 and 1958 are old enough to have experienced and remember racial hatred and bias. That means anyone 50 or older that you know, was alive when white people and black people couldn't go to the same school , use the same bathrooms, or drink from the same water fountains. If you think racism ended "200 years ago" think again.

[Peter Coene]

slavery deemed unconstitutional: 1865
segregation deemed unconstitutional: 1968

2008-1968 = 40.

So anyone born between 1865 and 1958 are old enough to have experienced and remember racial hatred and bias. That means anyone 50 or older that you know, was alive when white people and black people couldn't go to the same school , use the same bathrooms, or drink from the same water fountains. If you think racism ended "200 years ago" think again.

Please do not twist my words. I said that their identity was stolen 200 years ago, not that they stopped experiencing hatred and bias at that time. Those born during the Jim Crow era were born as the grandchildren of those who had lost their identity as a people; you can't have something stolen if you didn't have it to begin with. Yes, durring that time they had to struggle to find their own identity, however as you pointed out, all legislated discrimination was brought to an end in the late 60's. There is no longer any need for any race to have a sepparate identity, yet they persist in doing so.

[Brendan N]

Taking pride in the colour of our skin? Really? That's as bad (or as good) as being ashamed of it. Am I understanding you correctly, Peter?

[Peter Coene]

Taking pride in the colour of our skin? Really? That's as bad (or as good) as being ashamed of it. Am I understanding you correctly, Peter?

What is bad is separation. In the past we were separate because us whites made the mistake of trying to hold others under and forcing them to be separate. Today we are separate because those other groups choose to remain separate so that they can hold on to individual racial identities rather than a unified national identity.

Taking pride or shame in one's race is a direct result of that separation, so in a sense, yes, both are equally bad, but this is because of what they stem from. In another sense, that of survival, pride is the only option. Unchecked shame leads to self-destruction; pride on the other hand gives a sense of strength. As long as we remain divided along such silly boundaries we are forced to choose between the two. Granted it is a choice between the lesser of two evils, but as long as that is the choice I will gladly have my pride.

[Brendan N]

I tend to disagree, Peter. Skin colour should not feed the Ego in any way. You can choose to take pride, or to be ashamed - or you can choose neither. Pride and shame in skin colour is not only a result of separation, it is also a cause of it.

[Jabo]

Last week I bruised my finger by squeezing it with a hammer. So, I am now partially black, yellow and blue. I feel caught between two stools.

Seriously, I feel so overly non-connected to my "Caucasian hue", I can't believe how people can link so strongly to the color of their skin pigment. It doesn't make you a good person, nor a bad person.

[Elwell]

Peter, how proud are you of your blood type?

[tomwaits4noman]

regardless of skin everyone will have preconceived notions about you based purely on the colour of your skin, most of them are completely stupid as the list that started the thread has illustrated, some border on racism (where the race with majority of power make assumes on a minority)

more assumptions as we can see are completely incorrect, I think this thread would not not have caused so much uproar if it had been called "stuff white middle upper class liberal conservatives like"... but that is not really a catchy title.

[Peter Coene]

regardless of skin everyone will have preconceived notions about you based purely on the colour of your skin, most of them are completely stupid as the list that started the thread has illustrated, some border on racism (where the race with majority of power make assumes on a minority)

Why is it racism when the majority does it but not the minority?

more assumptions as we can see are completely incorrect, I think this thread would not not have caused so much uproar if it had been called "stuff white middle upper class liberal conservatives like"... but that is not really a catchy title.

liberal conservatives?

...is that like jumbo shrimp or honest politicians?

Peter, how proud are you of your blood type?

I don't know my blood type. However, America does not currently sepparate itself allong the lines of blood groups, and people have yet to make silly claims about the SAT being made by the type AB's to be biased against type O's. As such it is a moot point.

[kingshaj]

Those currently here had nothing stolen. Sure, their ancestor 200 years ago might have. Those trying to "recapture a stolen identity" are actively turning down the opportunity that is being offered them of a shared identity.

As for mine, it is currently being stolen. I thought of myself and all others born here or having earned their citizenship as Americans. Not "African Americans" not "Asian Americans" "Mexican Americans" "white Americans" or anything other than "American." However, each time a group chooses to keep itself sepparate, to identify themselves as anything else that unified identity becomes destroyed, little by little. It is at the point that yes, my identity has to be refolded and made a new way of life. Instead of being an American who happens to be white I have to be a white American. If that is what I am then so be it, but at least let me and the other white Americans be proud of who we are.



Yes, and I'm sure that the blacks currently in America personally have that experience.

Also, check your history. Do you think that we just walked into Africa and rounded them up? We got slaves as a result of their tribal wars taking prisoners. Yes, it was wrong of us to take them as slaves but fact of the matter is that they have other Africans to blame for making them slaves, we just made the difference of whether they would have black masters or white masters. Once again, I'm not condoning it, but thats what happened so I'd appreciate it if people would stop blaming whites for everything.


Thats because they've been brainwashed into beleiving that if they seek a unifying white identity they are somehow racist scum in league with the Nazis and KKK. Nobody wants that stigma so they continue to turn away and pretend nothings wrong.


Because thats one of the defining factors of what makes a culture a culture. Culture stems from civilization, and civilization is a result of people banding together and instead of thinking only of themselves (like prehistoric hunter gatherers) working together.


Thats good for you. As for me, untill half way through middle school I grew up in a mostly hispanic community. If I was pushed arround for being a gringo kid it was common policy to look the other way. If it got too rough, as it occasionally did with some of the other white kids, everyone involved would get in trouble for fighting. However, if the white kid fought back and won the other kid would twist his story and the white kid would be in trouble for racial reasons.

After a while, after I had come home with enough heartbreaking stories about having been mercilessly picked on and teased, my parents decided to move our family to a nearby town where whites had a slight majority. I stayed there throughout the rest of middle school, high school, and one year of JC. I wasn't teased for my race any more, but instead found that any student writing a paper about how horrible the white majority is got better grades, that white people were eager to put their own race down to please the politically correct.

Now I live near LA, a city where overall there is no majority. However, if you are white and you walk through certain sections at night you are asking to be mugged.


Oh come on, I'm just suggesting some racial pride ammong white people, not a paramilitary organization. Basically all it would do is give individuals a sense of pride and belonging... and maybe lobby for the discontinued exclusive use of white people when portraying nerds, fat people, hated politicians, innept bosses, cruel exclusive cliques, stupid jocks, and bullies in the media.

Lets face it, despite our screwups white Americans have a lot to be proud of.

. In another sense, that of survival, pride is the only option.

?????
woa,

your on your own pal,
wow

read more (check your history...its so far off i cant even go there with you...you are simply that misinformed...about america's involvement in slavery and as the last nation to abolish it by a hundred years.... mass lynchings were a big issue even in the 60s ...anyway..."you can learn more about this subject and others at your local library)

and travel a bit more...
try and forgive more (especially children) and live in other peoples shoes a bit more.
put some years under your belt ..im not a religious person in any way...but i do understand why forgiveness is a virtue, and pride is universally considered a sin....it alienates and makes you bitter...let it go early as you can.

take it form an old fart. drop it.

[cotron]

White people like arguments!

Also, box wine.

[tomwaits4noman]

"Why is it racism when the majority does it but not the minority?" because racism is the suppression and and degradation of an individual or group by a dominate force.


Basically with racism you are treating an individual as a lower class than you, its not to say that it can't happen on a one to one basis but more often than not, most times, it happens with the suppression or marginalization of a race. Its hard to suppress someone if they are a position of power.

[enrigo]

"Why is it racism when the majority does it but not the minority?" because racism is the suppression and and degradation of an individual or group by a dominate force.

But isn't the whole idea is to treat everyone equally ? not treating some minority better because you don't want to look like a racist. It's good that people avoid degrading minorities but I think sometimes it went a bit too far.

[Costau D]

What kind of pride should Mutts have? Such as my cousin or myself.

And, Box Wine? Come on.

We know white people love white russians and Irish Coffee.

[Vhan Juju]

What I have isshues with are the people who use the term "Minority" given to them by loud mouth politictions, and wave it around just to make you look like the bad guy (if you are white).

Becuase 5/7 times, if you are white, and you get into an arguement with a "minority" group, guess what, your GOING to be called out on the isshue because you are white. If you don't think this happens, go to any highschool.

Peter has some good points.

[light]

What I have isshues with are the people who use the term "Minority" given to them by loud mouth politictions, and wave it around just to make you look like the bad guy (if you are white).

Becuase 5/7 times, if you are white, and you get into an arguement with a "minority" group, guess what, your GOING to be called out on the isshue because you are white. If you don't think this happens, go to any highschool.

Peter has some good points.

"So I was saying some racist stuff to this black kid and he started saying stuff about minorities and everyone disagreed with me ugh high school is such bullshit."

[light]

Why is it racism when the majority does it but not the minority?

Haha dude, you stupid.

[serhc]

on a somewhat related note - read this, a story from jacob holdt, a reknowned worker against racism. it's a bit long, but it's worth it, as is part two.

he is not excusing the actions of the kkk, but rather providing some deeper insights into what might produce a member of a hate organization. in any case, it's just a great read, so doooooooooo it

[Zaknafain]

Lets face it, despite our screwups white Americans have a lot to be proud of.

thats silly. how can you be proud of what you are because of something that someone else achieved without your help?

[Vhan Juju]

wow serhc....wow... awesome article.

[tomwaits4noman]

But isn't the whole idea is to treat everyone equally ? not treating some minority better because you don't want to look like a racist. It's good that people avoid degrading minorities but I think sometimes it went a bit too far.

"treat everyone equally"
In theory yes, it is, the last guy who preached that idea got nailed to a tree..
but people will always put others down to make themselves feel better, unless we radically re think they way our society functions there will always be a hierarchal system where your place is determined or at least affected by where you live, your income bracket, your gender and often the colour of your skin or nationality.

[kingshaj]

thats silly. how can you be proud of what you are because of something that someone else achieved without your help?

exactly,

unless you also need be ashamed of the things they did without your consent.

you cant logically have it both ways.

[Peter Coene]

Haha dude, you stupid.

I have yet to see what was stupid about that. Racism is someone treating another person differently because of their race. It shouldn't matter who is in the majority or who is in the minority. For example, saying "white people are racist" is a racist comment. It doesn't matter if there are more white people, black people, Hispanic people, Asian or whatever. I have lived in areas where whites are in the minority, yet they were still called racist regularly.

read more (check your history...its so far off i cant even go there with you...you are simply that misinformed...about america's involvement in slavery and as the last nation to abolish it by a hundred years.... mass lynchings were a big issue even in the 60s ...anyway..."you can learn more about this subject and others at your local library)

I have checked my history, its dead on.

The 1st African slaves in the US were called "indentured servants." They agreed to work for American plantation owners for a period of time in return for chance to live in America, later the agreements would stretch to cover their later generations as well.

Soon after that, when slavery became a major trade for the US, the tribes near the Ivory Coast, Gold Coast, and Slave Coast were having regular skirmishes with the tribes farther inland. They would regularly take captives as slaves, and soon realized that they could make what for them was a lucrative business selling those slaves to white traders who would buy the slaves in Africa, sell them in the Caribbean (Jamaica was the most common port used) for molasses, rum, spices, sugarcane, and other raw goods, and trade those in Britain or America for refined goods like textiles, steel, and white sugar, which would then be traded to the African tribes to get more slaves.

This would continue untill Britain (Jamaica was a British Colony) abolished slavery in 1834... not exactly "100 years" before America. Speaking of your claim about being the "last nation to abolish it by a hundred years;" not only were you wrong when compared to Britain, but you were just wrong alltogether. We were the last WESTERN nation to allow it within our nation's borders, but definately not by 100 years. As mentioned before, Britain abolished slavery in Jamaica 30 years before us. The French abolished it in the late 1700s, then Napoleon made it ok again, then they abolished it again in 1848 (about 20 years before us.) The Africans themselves continued to take slaves, keep slaves, and sell slaves, and in many parts of Africa they still do. In some cases they took white slaves, as was the case with the Barbary Pirates....though we Americans put a stop to that practice in the battle of Tripoli in 1815; 50 years before our own ending of slavery.

Back to the slaves dropped off in Jamaica; they were usually placed in what were sort of training camps and sugar plantations for a generation or so before being taken up to America to be sold, this ensured that any rebelliousness was beat out of them and they were taught English before being boated to the American plantations either by rout of the Southern East Coast or the Mississippi River. However, the shipping of slaves to America legally ended when the US made slave trading illegal as an act of piracy in 1820.

As for mass lynchings, those were acts of people, not the government, and were, in fact illegal. As far as I can see though, it contradicts nothing I have said.

Regardless, the short version of all this: never tell me that I don't know my history. You can argue my morals, my theories, my philosophies, my political leanings, and my theological viewpoints all you want, but never tell me I don't know history.

and travel a bit more...

I have been to more than half the states in the US, I've also been to Austria, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Mexico, Switzerland, and the Vatican. Though thank you, I do like traveling and I would love to do so more.

try and forgive more (especially children) and live in other peoples shoes a bit more.

I do forgive those who treated me the way they did out of ignorance, I do not forgive the system for looking the other way or for creating such ignorance.

put some years under your belt ..im not a religious person in any way...but i do understand why forgiveness is a virtue, and pride is universally considered a sin....it alienates and makes you bitter...let it go early as you can.

There is no sin in feeling pride in something larger than oneself. Also, it is possible to forgive and still feel pride; they are not mutually exclusive.

take it form an old fart. drop it.

From this point I plan to, however not because I see anything I said as wrong, but because most people are too brainwashed to actually see anything in what I'm saying and instead give the programmed replies that earned them their A's in high school. I'm not helping and so I might as well shut up.

[light]

You can't grasp that something might be illegal but is perpetuated indirectly by the government and people, that the world isn't black and white, and you can't grasp common sense or decency and until you get that shit figured out nobody is going to point out the flaws in your argument because your entire ideology is flawed, childish and stupid as shit.

[s.ketch]

I just got back from Africa, you should see all the minorities there.