How would you like to have the second class run? This thread is for everyone to reply

[Form]

Oh... excuse me! I was just catching up on some lifedrawing. Dont mind me. Anyhow, the bittersweet time has come to call an end to the first class of environmentoring 07/08.

Its been a real learning curve for me and I want to thank every one of you who stuck it out to the end through the mixups and delays. The perseverance of some of the people in the class is a real inspiration to me and I owe you my personal thanks for reinvigorating my interest in many of these topics.

But the point of THIS thread is to look to the future. I am determined to find a more effective means of 'teaching' the second intake. As I am only a young artist, I am still doing a *lot* of learning myself, and sometimes it feels very innapropriate to place myself in a teacher's role. However, I wouldn't consider abandoning it because it is part of my personal decision to try to help out whoever I can, wherever I can. I know that I have forged a good connection with many of you through chat outside of the class and I want to always remain awake to opportunities to be of assistance in any way.

I have a couple of ideas for the second 'semester'. There will be a new intake and I encourage the current students to re-apply. The amount of people I end up taking on will depend on the format of the class.

I have a few ideas of how it could run but i would like you (current students or otherwise) to help formulate the best methodology for everyone. So far I have taught the way I was taught myself, by mentors here on CA much like this class in a way. But I'm sure it can be done in a much more direct and personal way. So, some options:

1. Continue with the 'class' structure. Ie, there is a topic, I prepare a 'lecture' on it, and then there is a 'workshop' or homework component that seeks for you to exercise the knowledge offered that week.

2. Another idea was to start a mock studio environment. Each member would begin by defining specific goals for where they would like to work (in real life) and then I would structure tasks for them to strengthen their portfolio for that goal. For instance, if you wanted to be an environment concept artist for blizzard, I would create a role for you in the mock project involving a certain type of activity that suits what blizzard are looking for. This format would be heavily based around building your working skills, about improving productivity, working in a team, and building your portfolio. Learning would occur more through 1:1 critique and tuition than as a 'lecture'.

3. We could do a lecture-by-request where you guys could request a lecture on a topic that is giving you trouble. This would mean that you had more freedom in what you wanted to learn, but there would be less of a 1:1 nature to it. I would accept more people in and it would be less personal... but it would mean that if you had a specific hurdle you were trying to get over, you could get help for exactly what you wanted. Not sure about this one, lets see what you guys think.

4. Pure 1:1 - i could just take on 5 mentees and communicate via email as needed and work just with your goals and getting you to a place you want to be at. Could work, but i think the 'team' environment can be very helpful with motivation and keeping you on track.

At the moment, im liking #2... but id like to hear what you guys think. Either way, there will be one last week for the current class to polish off their pieces and wrap it all up, and then another few weeks for me to catch up on work, prepare the new class, and then we can launch back into it.

Most of all, I want this to help YOU guys, so please tell me WHAT you want to learn, and how best you think you could learn it. What can I give you?

Cheers
Adam

[robmorfin]

In order of likeness:
4
2
1
3

Thanks again Adam.

[arttorney]

I won't be in Semester #2 because I just started a semester commitment elsewhere, but this is a group I had thought to access eventually in my a la carte journey through concept art. I applaud you for this remodeling step.

I think options involving a group who can identify themselves as such adds the mutual support element (and a sort of prestige) that can help keep dropout rates lower. There are still tons of people out there dying for help and it is special to be getting help in here. If a few people are trading emails with you I can see you having to pester people a lot in a month or so about WTF is your assignment etc. and you end up getting exasperated. Having people not wanting to let each other down is a more gentle form of pressure than when the mentor has to rant.

I think the people you help have something on the ball and may be needing a portfolio development type kick in the butt more than generic skills. You may be on to something there.

[Earendil]

Could 2 and 4 be combined?

A 5 person team, in a mock studio environment. Small class size == less insane for Form, good for students.

Also, I would continue to hit up the foundational stuff weekly, somehow. I'm not sure about anyone else, but those exercises during the early weeks, were really good stuff. Repeat!

Maybe weekly studies to complement the current picture that's being designed. Say you had this idea for big castle w/trees blah blah. Studies for that week would be the types of trees you'd be putting into your picture, and castle architecture. This way, it helps contribute to the overall picture. We've already been doing that a little bit in previous assignments.

More deadlines: Assignment goes up. Thumbnails are due a certain day/time. Value and color mockups/trials due at another time...maybe how to MAKE a value/color mockup. That's a lesson there I'm sure. Finally, the finished piece.

Just making sure that everyone is on the same page, so that when thumbs come in, feedback is spread around, changes are made for the better, and then we go on to the next step.

Um...maybe you could ask a question that you yourself are perplexed about. At your level, what do you find yourself struggling with...and what could be done at our level so that we aren't struggling with it...when...we're at your level....hmmmmmmm make sense I do not.

Glad you're still teaching though. Yay!

[robmorfin]

I'm with you Ear, deadlines defined will really keep the class moving and we will accomplish a better assignment everytime, I like more the assignments as a group, but also think it will be kind of hard for you if we all have different goals, even though they are related to Environments; But also agree tith artourney that emails will drive you crazy.

Most of all, I want this to help YOU guys, so please tell me WHAT you want to learn, and how best you think you could learn it. What can I give you?

Adam

I'm looking for a combination Feng Zhu/Hideyoshi/Form ; I like Environment Design, But leaning towards a final goal of Game Designer/Production Designer, maybe start with Level Design, but combining it with Environment Design; Right now I could start working as a Production Designer, designing sets and supervising Contractors on the construction of these, but this is the technical side of Production Design & I want to be able to do as much as possible of the Artistic side of being a Production Designer.

So, not only creating one picture, but Designing the looks and the arrangement of the whole scene, level, world, etc., not only creating Isometrics, but floorplans, isometrics, 3D models, textures, perspectives (not always rendered, sometimes just using values for a quick presentation like Feng does on his Level Designs.

And Adam, thanks a lot for your time and the knowledge you are passing on to us, you have really helped me improve a lot in such a short time, looking forward for more.

Rob.

[Gundersen]

ehhhh Form...

Well I have talked to you on msn alot, and you know where i stand atm. Number two is the best option for sure. Id rather see the "class" or "team" as someone that now has a strong grasp of the basic and can keep pushing each other. If people still need alot of 1:1 tutoring, its better to find a tutor that will do this.

[Form]

great great feedback guys - i will be integrating a lot of this. Please keep it coming. I just signed onto a new job today doing teaching at a university (like, you know, proper teaching, where they give you little colourful bits of paper at the end that you can go exchange for food?)

This has taken a lot of the pressure off me, and it will be interesting to see how teaching in real life will affect the way i run it on here - no doubt i will have some interesting ideas. So im getting very excited to see where this leads. Anyway, id like to hear more opinions, and thanks to arttorney for dropping by and two-centsing.

[algenpfleger]

*comes in, sees that there's not much time left*
*runs off to paint his butt off to make it into the new class*

[rvdtor]

well either way its great that you wanna continue with teaching and helping others...even with all the work you yourself have.
i think the second choice sounds better going 1 on 1 has more problems i think because when we wanna get jobs in the industry we have to work with more people. also its less strain on you, working that way you have to rely on the mentees dedication and self ambition. working in a team setting the other members can motivate and push each other further. which takes away a lot of strain on you.
i'd definately want to keep going cause i've learned a lot.

so working with a not so big group sounds best. u can afford to be a bit more personal but not finding yourself at the end if one leaves, can just keep going.

[jodali]

well this is what I like about the ideas

1. 'class' we get a the main points and ideas in the 'lecture' which then are somewhat forced to go and research about specific things, then implement that into a piece, post it get get feedback from the class. (which is difficult to get unless your at university)

2. this seems like it would be great for anyone who knows exactly what they want to do, and strengthen their weakness in certain areas. but its also good that would get a taste of what the industry is looking for

3. this would be great if we knew what our weakness was.

4. also we would have to know what our weakness was but there isn't much feedback from multiple sources.

basically a group or class is good for feedback, and 1:1 is good for improving specific skills, deadlines are good for motivation,

[ian081271]

Hey Form,

I really like the idea of Number 2.

I feel that this would give me a Heads Up of where I want to go with my art..

When is the new class room going to begin...
Cheers
Ian

[Jonish]

Greetings,
I was just curious, I've done just some still-life studies and rough env. sketches so far, but environments are my main "lifetime" goal. Are your classes for this kind of people or should I learn more of basics first?

So from my point of view, 1 or 2 seems the best, however 1 seems most difficult for you as the teacher, planner.

[ElementalMist]

Wow, I really like your thoughts on #2. I am a horrid perfectionist and actually working on portfolio work would be great for me. I also kind of have the same question as Jonish. I am far from proficient, and have only done some sketch work in environmental design. I tend to get wrapped up in details when I draw archetectual structures and lose the big picture or get annoyed and work on something else.

[Gundersen]

not to be mister know it all, but if you want to apply just send an application. And youll see if you got what it takes

[daldbaatar]

i stick with no1...even if we do follow our own goal, on the field of career we must be able to adapt to any requested jobs...therefore i stick with "1".

[Form]

ian - I havn't set an exact date as my university class starts this week so I have to see how much organisation i have to do there. It will be in the next 2-3 weeks, soon after I announce the class.

To everyone who has asked about their proficiency level - i would ask that you read the application thread and then apply, there are many factors that are going into the decision, not just the quality of the work

Cheers
A

[Jorge Gecov]

I like the ideas 2 and 4 in preference order.

[Lez]

I would say that a mixture of one and two would work best. Maybe there are students with similar goals which in turn would enable you to create smaller workgroups. Even though a 1 to 1 evnironemnt could be effective I feel that working in smaller groups with people with the same mindset is the most efficiant way to learn.

[DAMJAN]

I'm down for # 2. That is because I'm not yet used to coming up with creative ideas when it comes to concept art because I've never had an opportunity to practice that. I think that I work better if I have a given goal.

[Streetz]

I have been waiting for a 2nd run ever since i missed the 1st !!!

[Bella_3333]

This would of been a nice learning experience, since I'm a beginner. :-(