Need an opinion... I'm stumped.

[blackmorass]

Been working on this picture for a while now, but I'm debating whether or not the way the boot on her right leg looks out of place with the rest of the picture; if the feel it carries in its design conflicts with the feeling of the rest of her. I kind of feel the same way about the dagger in her left hand. (though I think the eyeballs make it pretty sweet)

I really like the way it looks personally. I just don't know if it all flows together, or if it just conflicts with itself. What do you guys think?

[Favila]

Im no expert and this probably wont answer to your question but I've learnt in this forum that you should realize that you aren't making a Where's Wally? picture so you should just tell the viewer where are the important things in the image, like a tourist guide. And you are telling the tourists: 'look everywhere' so you arent being too useful as a guide, and the tourists might get a wrong impression of the place -> viewers wont understand the picture if you put that much detail everywhere and dont highlight something.

[blackmorass]

i was thinking the same thing actually. i dont want to swamp it with too much detail or it just becomes strenuous on the eyes to look at. i was going to shade it later on, when i was done with everything in hopes that it would make sense of the mass amounts of detail there, but i dont know..

[Jason Rainville]

Im no expert and this probably wont answer to your question but I've learnt in this forum that you should realize that you aren't making a Where's Wally? picture so you should just tell the viewer where are the important things in the image, like a tourist guide. And you are telling the tourists: 'look everywhere' so you arent being too useful as a guide, and the tourists might get a wrong impression of the place -> viewers wont understand the picture if you put that much detail everywhere and dont highlight something.

I second this, but with a "but;"

I think there's a difference between detail and emphasis. Usually detail IS emphasis, but emphasis is made of contrast as well: a red ball in a sea of white ones, a black dot on a green page. Like you said, adding detail everywhere risks making those areas look similar, but suppose the face was plain and white compared to the intricate, multicoloured detail. All of a sudden it's the dull that's emphasized, like a white ball in a sea of red now.

Also, a strong sillouette helps contain detail, which this currently seems to do. I think as long as the face is plain, it will be the collected voice that's noticed in a room full of screams.

EDIT: aside from that ther are some anatomy issues with the placement of the legs and shape of the shoulders. maybe some reference?

[mumrah]

The details are great but as mentioned above the anatomy isn't right, legs/feet don't twist naturally like that, and possibly the forearms are a little long- so you can dress the sketch up with the nice details as much as you like but the finished result won't be perfect because the basics are a little off.

[blackmorass]

now that ive gotten some sleep, a lot more of the things wrong with it stand out at me, like the anatomy things mentioned. i was purposefully aiming for slightly longer limbs, to hint at a sort of lanky-ness about her. but it does look a bit odd now that i really look at it.

and thanks mumrah for pointing out the feet. i probably wouldnt have caught that right away until it would have been a pain to have to go and correct it later. and thanks to everyone else for the insight. gonna see if i can finish it tonight.

[zypher18]

detail is great, but make sure you use some line hierarchy to help guide the viewer, ie using bolder lines for the silhouette. If you do plan on shading it, then instead use values to create the hierarchy. Also, try to avoid twining, that is, having both sides of the body be identical in pose.

[Sig.NAL]

The position of the arms seems a bit vulnerable to me. I think it would be a stronger piece if she held one of the swords with an arm over her head and an overhand rather than reverse grip on just one of the hilts. It would seem functionally more logical to me given the size such weapons to keep her arms from getting as 'tangled' up as they seem. i think the face would be rather nicely framed between the arms without having to alter your design much, and it would cut down' on the twining that zyper18 pointed out.

[Chordate]

I think that its not proportions, cartoons dont have to be proportionate. think about how your character flows. are they kinda bendy? then make all of them bendy, are they super active-lined (you know what i mean) then make all of them active-lined (there it is again). Unifying the style in the drawing makes it more sound, more whole and when the viewer looks at it, they can say "yeah arms and legs dont really look like that, but i can tell that in that world, thats the way things work" and thats what makes it okay ^_^
ya know?

[liamythesh]

I'd second Chordate's opinion. It looks like a cartoon style, so I would stress exaggeration to emphasize who the character is. As far as detail, I'd say it's fine. Go ahead and add a boot to match the other side, as the daggers match fairly well. Just make sure that you do have a focal point. The detail won't hurt.
The face would make a great focal point, as it's relatively simple in comparison to the accessories, but not as blandly simple as the body.


As far as what's being said about the pose, they're right, it would probably take a contortionist.. I believe a contortionist could do it, so if this is a contortionist, then go right ahead, as I don't subscribe to the belief that only people who are exactly eight heads highg, can rotate their arm exactly this far , and conform to every norm of proportions are worth drawing. I know of many irl people who break the rules to some degree.

Just bear in mind that even for a contortionist, it would be uncomfortable.

Optimally you can fix this issue by facing the feet forward, and tilted slightly down. They will be angled horizontally toward the center a few degrees.

also when drawing in this style, and thinking about proportions, ask yourself if the pose is dynamic enough to benefit from use of dynamic perspective.

If not, keep everything in line with your normal guidelines.

If so, then you can make the scene look a bit more action packed by exaggerating the focal point

Excellent example: http://destructorv1.deviantart.com/a...blade-42505920
Excellent Tutorial:
http://destructorv1.deviantart.com/a...art-1-42506187

If used in this piece, the feet and legs would seem the natural place to exaggerate, just be sure to do it with smooth continuity back into the rest of the piece.

This technique, while I'm sure is frowned upon by flat realists generates much more of a sense of motion and activity, and is quite acceptable in comic book/graphic novel work, being a characterizing trait.

Good luck.

[emily g]

Moved to WIP section.

[blackmorass]

worked on the pic a little more, ultimately keeping the length of her appendages the same. what i had forgot to state with my original post was that the pic was a variant of a night elf rogue, from world of warcraft (yah, im a geek, but so are over 8 million others if thats the case ), and wanted to establish that she was a bit lanky to begin with.

i hadnt read about the twinning thing that zypher18 had originally pointed out until it was more or less too late; i had already started detailing her left arm and the dagger. in this case, avoiding the twinning would have been good, because i dont initially see her left arm under the right one at a glance.

over all though, im really happy with how its turning out, and the feedback has certainly been useful, and just as appreciated. if theres anything else to add though, by all means~ :3

and thanks liamythesh for those links. theyll certainly be helpful!

[MaryCarey]

I think that is a big improvement, nice work. Hope you show the finished drawing x

[blackmorass]

Finally finished it, and I'm all too happy with how it turned out. The only thing I grimace over is the fact her left arm is nearly invisible under her right arm, unless you're actively looking for it. Aside from that, I think it turned out pretty kick ass. The poisoned heart in the corner might be a bit much, but I think it compliments the picture rather nicely.

Spent about 2 hours cleaning it up in photoshop after i scanned it, because my scanner is crap (which should be evident in the partially completed pic I put up earlier), and touched it up in a couple places with the burn tool, but that's about it.

And a big thanks to everyone who gave their 2 cents about the picture. It really did help.

[Joey-b]

damn thats nice, ur very patient..

they details on this are stunning, nothing left but to congratulate you on a great piece of art

[Sig.NAL]

Yeah, that looks cool I like the tally marks on the shoe.

[Erick Willand]

this is cool, personally I'm a fan of detail and chicks with pointy ears. Are you going to color it?

[blackmorass]

i might color it. i typically dont color pieces ive detailed to death, since i xerox the original and go at it with colored pencils, and the detailing usually interferes with the colors. but the thought has crossed my mind, and im considering it.

[Rabid]

Im glad it isn't completely symmetrical. The slight difference in positions and angles keeps it more interesting that way...good work!

[Benza]

You cpuld try just giving the backdrop another hue or so as to help the viewer make out the big empty spaces. and I also think it would help seperating the girl, from the backdrop. I like how it turned out, great scale and pose of the character. Some shading perhaps to help the viewer finding the arms so the don´t seem to lay flat on each other, but anyway, awesome work.