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Thread: D-Holme mentors Serum in 3d modeling

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    D-Holme mentors Serum in 3d modeling

    Hello all,

    I am participating in a competition at www.gameartisans.org here.

    A quick breakdown of the specs is 1500 triangles / 512 x 512 maps.

    D-Holme has graciously offered to help me.

    The first step was finding some reference. After I decided on the reference, I made a cylinder, and began making cuts into it.


    D-Holme told me "Rather than try to make cuts into the model (which can get quite complex with larger objects) I would try starting out with a cylinder with a some lateral sub-division and then work with the extrude tool to create the areas of detail and form."

    Kevin
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    Method

    Sorry if this is a bit too simplistic but I figured I'd make sure the basics are covered. Not trying to force you down one way of doing things so try this out and see whether they make sense to how you work.

    A - Planning stage - initial thoughts about how to produce this model. I've colour coded what I would think which separate parts should be produced - either for ease of modelling, composition or alteration.

    B - Basic shape, rather than a cylinder I'd suggest starting with a tube (if you needed a hollow model - otherwise a cylinder would be suitable) - I've included a reasonable level of lateral sub-division for later sculpting.

    C - Close up the top

    D - Using vertexes the form can be defined (using reference images or by eye), the scale function can be used for speed.

    E - Deleting out the edges from the lower plane.

    F - This then gives a single surface to extrude - the sub-division of this surface can be sorted out later.

    G - Basic form completed.....

    From here I'd refine the existing form to match the reference more closely. Then start to add additional parts as per the division covered in the plan using which ever basic shapes you think would be the most appropriate.

    I hope this is clear, let me know if you’ve got any queries. I’ll try to expand on some areas once I’ve got a little more time to sort some examples.
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    Thank you, that was very easy to follow. Just one question...was the purpose of deleting the edges to make it easier to select the face for extrusion?
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    Looks like it's coming along well.

    It does make is easier to see which parts to extrude if they are a single face but mainly if the edges are kept in an extruded face then the extrusion will be split on those edges. If you experiment extruding a basic faces with and without edges within the face you should see the difference.

    You can use similar methods now to give the helmet its complete form and add in the extra sections. Normally I would try to use scale and move commands on the vertices (rather than dragging points about) as I find it easier to maintain symmetry that way.

    Useful tool:
    Poly-Edit => Cut-faces => Cut-along ZX plane (or similar)
    This tool will help you get sub-division along plane axes to let you define the shape of model further.
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    Thanks, some more progress...and I still have around 1000 triangles to spare...what do you think?
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    Yes looks good - I think I would have done the nose-guard and the cheek-pieces as totally separate sections but for this it doesn't make that much difference.


    Separate pieces can give you an advantage when texturing the piece, making for simpler UV maps, giving easier options for animation/composition and later alteration. A lot of this would be affected by the end use of the model but as general rule I try to keep my models flexible as I don’t know when else I might want to use them.

    I would use those extra triangles to put some raised detail on to the surface of the helm and perhaps add some separate decoration pieces - eg. top-bulb, gilt-nose section, basic studs etc.

    Try to think ahead to which areas most would benefit from increase modelling, in some places the difference could instead by handled by textures and other effects. For most of the work I do poly-count doesn’t come into it but even then it is still worth trying to be efficient.

    I wanted to go over some of the planning for a piece as an exercise and splitting a model up is part of that. If I have chance tomorrow I’ll put something together on it.
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    Object sectioning

    I’ll try to be fairly general but some of my points might still have more relevance to one style of modelling than another.

    I’ve already covered the reasons why I choose to section my models up but the following would be good things to look out for as places to put the splits in:
    Material changes – perhaps the most obvious – eg the wooden legs of a leather chair
    Mechanical joints – eg hinges, axels & pivots
    Changes in colour within a surface – less useful but sometimes helpful
    Complex shapes – harder to see where to put the splits in but generally should try to simplify the form of an object.
    Distinctive details – eg. Decorative sword pommel, raised numbers

    With the low-poly modelling that you have the most interest in there can be a toss-up between splitting an object to simplify the modelling process and the need to work within a limited number of polys but it is still worth looking at when it can be making your life easier.

    I’ll put these together into some more work on planning but at the moment I think it is best to stick to one thing at a time and finish off the work with the helm. Hopefully when you have this finished I’ll have a better idea of your level so we won’t be going over things you already know.
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    Ok, that makes sense. I am adding some surface features onto the helm separately rather than trying to split the geometry and extruding it, but I am having a hard time making the new geometry follow the helm model...maybe this is just a matter of practice. I basically made the helm live, drew a curve on it, duplicated and lofted it with output set to polygons. Do you have any suggestions or is it just a matter of spending more time tweaking?
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    Ok, I modeled things out separately...what do you think? Working on the eyebrow piece and top ornament next...and then I'll see how many triangles I have remaining.
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    For areas like the brows and the nose guard I would likely just eyeball the poly's into position and allow some overlap into the face of the helm. So long as you don't want a distinct edge and keep it in mind for texturing it shouldn't be a problem. If you did want to have the parts line up closely then as you say it is mostly a matter of practice. It can be made easier if the vertices of one part match the internal edges of the other then by tweaking in the plan and profile (top and side) you can move them across to line up.

    Depending on the situation it isn't always needed to loft curves for a piece like this I would just start with basic geometry - the way I work it would usually be quicker. But as with a lot of things there is no right or wrong way just which works best for you.

    I think everything you are doing is working and you just need some more refining to bring it together. If you want to email me the model file I can have a look at it in 3D see if there is anything I'm missing.

    For some sections a separate piece can be created by duplicating faces from the original object that match the area the new object will start from and then working off them.
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    I've had a look at you model-file and it looks like everything is going in the right direction and it just needs some more time to bring it together.

    Working on the vertices for the brow and nose pieces now needs to bring them back into the curve of the rest of the helm. Looking at the helm in a shaded-wire frame you should be able to see which points need to come in or out. Rather than try to get a perfect match just give the additional sections enough thickness to allow some overlap back into the main helm. Where there is an overlap make sure that it looks 'natural'. Areas like the hinges will stand clear of the surround object so any overlap there should be angles carefully but as they are about the length of a face-edge use that to your advantage to find a straight section to line up to.

    The chin-guards looks good, just vertex edit them to be a little smoother, especially along the rear edge, will help it come across well.

    Tweaking these last areas should have you almost done with the modelling.

    When you done with that it might be worth seeing how some raised studs would look on the helm just to give it some grittier, more 'made', detail (depending on the poly count). Little 3, 4 or 5 sided pyramid would likely work well enough.
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    Ok, 1500 triangles on the dot...let me know what you think, and thanks again.
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    Looks like it is almost there. I think that it might look stronger if the brow pieces came in closer to the line of the helm on the outside edges and formed a tighter fit to the nose guard.

    Raising the top most point of the helm main body might just get rid of the sharp corner around the top.

    Once your happy with it then I think it would be worth trying out some textures on it.

    Normally what I would do is, within Maya use the option to use a photoshop file as a texture file and the UV-map will be writen into it once the UV is created. Once that done the .psd can be used to create whatever texture files you want. I'm not sure whether this is how you'd normally approach texturing but if you'd normally work a different way follow that and see who things look.
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    Ok, adjusted the brow piece and top vertex...starting on textures...the deadline is tonight.
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    Of UV's and maps....

    Yes, that looks better. You might need to check where the helm intersects with the nose guard as it looks like it might just be clipping the edge of the helm curve but otherwise looks good.

    If they want only a single 512x512 UV map you might have to move the UV-maps around to get them all onto one file (I'd still work in the .psd then save out the different images out at the end).

    How much depth do you need when it comes to texturing?
    I'll skip the very basics and go from somewhere in the middle (but just let me know if you want me to go back over anything).

    I've put up an example file of how I go about doing a texture - I've labelled the layers to try to make it self explanatory. This file should give you the basics, it was setup for a rush job (and for brick-textures not metals) but I hope it gives you an idea.

    http://www.milecastle.com/skb/UV_example01.psd

    To get a quick texture done with the helm I would paint the areas with the colour values you want (I would try to keep the tonal values similar so you can quickly use the colour map as a base for your reflective etc maps). Then add some detail and definition using reference or brushes to add some surface interest - multiple and screen layers can be good for this. Add interest like scratches and dirt - nature of this is up to you but it will help break up a totally uniform surface.

    Looking at reference can help but think also how things are going to work for a real object and how it might develop marks and detail.

    If you don’t have much of a texture reference library yourself a quick internet search should bring up some good free ones.

    Most in my address book seem to be not working (or are very specific) but the following should give you a start:
    http://www.mayang.com/textures/

    Then using curves, greyscale and invertions to change the colour map into those for you specularity and reflection. Whilst doing that you can also paint on areas of relevance particular to each map – eg raised edges that might get more wear and hence have higher specularity. If tweaked right you can also use this method to produce your bump map but might require a little more work.

    Once that it done the files can be saved out and applied to the model, tweaking the levels before rendering to give the finish you want.

    I hope this makes some sense but as I’ve been quite quick covering this please let me know if you have any questions on what I’ve been suggesting.
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    I've decided to go in a different direction from the reference...what do you think?

    Edit: Hi Andrew, just saw your psd and I'd like to ask you more questions about it tomorrow...unfortunately, it looks like I've run out of time and will not be able to follow your suggestions before submitting. Thanks so much for all your help, I'm really learning a lot.
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    No problem - I thought it might be a little late to get everything done but so long as it makes sense it is usefull for the next time.

    I think that working a way from reference can help a great deal, I think the clear symbol on the helm helps to make it look distinctive - I would be careful in future to position the details (like the scorpion) so that they aren't covered by other section (like the noseguard) - it makes the result look more like a model than a real helm if you see my meaning.

    If you are done with this I don't know what you want to do next - I can suggest/set some excerises to strengthen your skill areas or you can set yourself another topic and I'll just advise - either works for me.
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    Do you have a model to apply the PSD to? I think maybe just seeing it in action is the best way to understand what the different layers do. I don't really understand curves, so I have to look into that.

    If you have some exercises that you think would help me, that would be great. Also, I imagine there will be another contest on gameartisans.org in the next few days. Usually they run for 2 weeks.

    Kevin

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    I'm afraid cannot show you the model that went with the psd but the file was for brick-arches going above window and doors on a house I worked on (they were blue rather than red brick so they look a bit off). The curves take a bit of getting used to but are really powerful for something so worth getting your head about. I think there are better explanations of them than I could give so have a dig about to see what you can find – I’ll see if I can dig out what I’ve read in the past.

    Stevekims Video covers it a bit:
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=107646

    It's not likely many tutorials will cover what we'll be using them for but once you've got the idea it can be used on a lot of situations.

    I've got an excercise in mind that I'll stick up later tonight.
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    Exercise A
    I think that I know you’re level reasonably well after that first activity but I just wanted to check a few things before moving onto anything more complex.

    What I wanted to do was go over the planning at the start of a model – I would like you to plan out the sectioning of some objects and list which basic object (or technique) you would use for each section for:
    Basic objects – eg. a sword, lamp, pan – few materials or moving parts
    Complex objects – eg. a television, power tool, a gun – several materials, complex shapes, some moving parts
    Very complex objects – eg. a truck, aircraft, spaceship – many materials and moving parts

    I’ve included some examples to give an idea of what I meant for each category but choose whatever you want, if you take thing that interest you they can be used in future as the basis for some modelling assignments. Just choose as many as you want for each category, then get some images and show the breakdown in whatever manner suits you (I find a colour key like in my first post can be good way of representing things), for each section you define then list which primary shape (or technique eg. lathed section) you would use to start the modelling.

    I hope this makes sense, you shouldn’t need to spend that long on this but it good planning will save time in the long run.

    If there isn’t a new contest that interests you after this we can take some of these plans forward and perhaps get stuck into some texturing.
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    I watched stevekim's video. I also found a tutorial on the internet. I think I have a slightly better handle on curves. What I got was that it's a more powerful command than levels because it gives you more control over tones in an image. The problem is I don't have a good grasp of tones, the histogram, or levels, so I need to tackle those first.

    Here is the first exercise. I supplied the original image for the helicopter because I think it was hard to see what was under the colors.
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    Exercise A – Feedback

    Good Work - I've don't think there were any prblems there, I've included some comments on each piece below:

    Handgun – looks right, you could probably put the entire barrel assembly could be done as one piece if you wanted, extruding the support brackets from the faces of the barrel cylinder but they way you’ve shown it is equally good and could allow for easier customising/alteration of the model (the other way might lead to quicker texturing).

    Rowing-boat – Cubes would be the way to go for this but I think I’d try to do the sides as a single piece – once you had a stepped section it could be extruded all the way along the hull – as a single piece it would be easier to keep the fairing constant and avoid gaps.

    Sofa – Yes that looks right and with a symmetrical shape like this a lot (or even all the model) could be mirrored to save time – I think you’ve seen that when you only show half the base as a section? I’d do the feet as a separate section.

    Sword – would work fine but depending on the nature profile of the blade squashing a cylinder into shape with blood channels etc. may work a bit quicker. Handle could be a revolve or just a simple extruded cylinder – I think with this there’d be a lot of ways of doing this with no right answer, just perhaps what you’re most comfortable with.

    Hind Helicopter – It’s a bit of a toss up how to take this one (always is with complex shapes) – I’ll got things and try to cover my comments as best I can for each section (but I might end up rambling a bit):
    Main body – think I’d use a cube for this but then heavily tweak it about – main reason would be that the model would want a lot of faces in the middle and fewer toward the front and aback and cylinder tend to give you too many faces all coming together when they come into a narrower area. I’d also do the tail and main body as one piece unless I particularly wanted it to be separate (eg for a naval helicopter with a folding tail boom). Reason for this would be with smooth surfaces (particularly aero-nautical ones) getting flawless joins can be a right pain (if I had a choice I’d do something like this with a NURBS surface but that’s a different side of modelling).
    Wings – cylinder would work fine, the pylons might need to be separate pieces for make thing easier but both should work. I’d likely have used a cube as my base but only because I’d rather build up a complex shape from extrusions rather and shape one from a mass of vertices but both methods are quite valid.
    Cockpit canopies – could be spheres but might need some tweaking for a high quality model but good for faster work (I’ve attached something I did in a very similar method that worked great for what I wanted - (edit) this was just a sphere extruded back and forth then seperated into metal and glass). If I wanted a high res model I think I’d model the separate sections all from different cubes (eg. frames and each glass plane)
    ---------------

    That all looks good, glad we did that though as it means we can look at complex things without problems in the planning stage.

    Exercise B – Texturing (and some more modelling).

    We’ll take the gun as an example for no other reason as it has a good range of materials within it. We’ll have a looks at developing textures with the methods we touched on before but this time I’ll take it step by step so the process is clearer. Let me know if you’ve got any question or that you’ve got something else in mind.

    Task: Model up a handgun (either the one from the pervious exercise or one of your own inverntion) including as many components as you want but make sure that it has areas have at least two metallic finishes and one (or more) which has a non-metallic rough surface.

    I’m away from the office for a couple of days (14th - 16th) so I’ll have a job getting online before Sunday. If you could try to have most of the modelling done by then we can look at textures at the start of next week.
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    Sorry for the delay, laptop died this weekend...anyway, I'm going to finish this up tonight.
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    No worries - computers are a rule to themselves.

    Looks like a good start, depending on where you see materials ending be careful how far up you take the single handle piece - or seperate the faces once the modelling is done.
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    Ok, I have finished the rough shape...I'm having problems with mirroring the handle as you can see in the picture...I've frozen transformations, deleted history, centered the pivot...I am stuck.
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    Revolver Pointers

    I've had a look at the model file you sent through to me.

    Mirroring issue, looks like it is caused by Maya trying to be too clever with its functions. If you turn off the 'merge with the original' option you can mirror it across the axis - it will become a different body but you can then just go around and merge the vertices together.

    I know you’ve roughed the model out to this stage but you might want to refine the areas a bit before mirroring as this will save doing it on both sides – I’d made a few suggestions for where to start in the attached image but I’ll leave it up to you which direction you take things in.

    The model didn’t import too well so this may just be an error due to that but it looks like there is something odd going on at the underside of the gun barrel.
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    Ok,

    I fixed up the bottom, and was able to mirror by unchecking the merge vertices option. I also beveled the edge of the handle like you did...what do you think?
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    I think it's heading in the right direction, as this is just for texturing practice it won't need to be fantastic modelling but it's worth getting the basics in there so there is some challenge to the rest of the process.

    I think you just need to go over the model refining it to the next level of detail - I'd sooth out some of the curves (either through bevelling or sub-division) and add in details like the bore and the holes in the revolver-magazine body. I'd just look at some reference and see where the model could most benefit from cleaning up/developing.
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    Ok, I was trying to get the hole in the revolver magazine to be tapered at the end nearest the handle, but I kept losing both my objects when I did the boolean command...also, how would you approach smoothing the handle and trigger guard more..is it just a matter of adding more splits and tweaking vertices?
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    I've had a play with the older model you sent through before and I haven't had any problems with the Boolean command - not sure whether it is a problem you're selecting things in (try selecting the magazine first then the cutting shape) - if that doesn't work I'm not sure - might be worth replacing the cylinder and seeing if that fixes it.

    Smoothing the handle - I might try one of the smoothing commands but I find they tend to be a bit vague in the results. Either smooth it out by sub-division then hand modelling or by multiple bevels (even bevels on existing one can work if the sizes are right) - I'll probably do both depending on the situation.

    Check the model for gaps or holes in odd places (behind the trigger and below the barrel?) and with a bit more tweaking it would probably be worth looking at textures. The trigger will likely be overly deep once it’s been mirror so could do with being slimmed down.
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