The B*tch Sarah

[Kalahee]

Xxxxx

[Flake]

What's a "free commish"?

Edit: it sounds like a "free commision" obviously but I'm not up with DA speak and have no idea what that might entail..

[waronmars]

Free commision I would think. Chuck some image tags on it like this [IMG] http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...DalisColor.jpg [/IMG] minus the spaces.

[kev ferrara]

Is that purple or mauve? Or just red violet?

I really like how you managed to twist the body all the way around so you get the legs in perfect profile and the head perfectly straight-on. Neat trick.

[Elwell]

I don't know why the [img] tags aren't working with Photobucket, but please either fix it or attach the image directly.

[Steve-I]

You might want to try using line weight to show dimensionality, some deeper shadows would help too.
Did you use a photo reference?
Keep at it.

-Steve-

[Aniviel833]

I'm not experienced enough to speak to most of the anatomy, but most glaring is that you don't seem to have any understanding of what is going on with the head and neck. The translation from her torso to neck to head just seems to be piling one on top of the other with no regard to the continuity of the spinal cord. Her skull belongs to an alien (round top and very tapered chin) and her facial features are dead (dull eyes and minimal value range flatten it a lot.). My eyes skip straight over the face and settle somewhere around her belly-button. I'm completely confused as to what is going on at her left shoulder. That cloak might be masking a shoulder, but it reads as if her arm is thrust behind her and the cloak is floating on a seperate plane.

Sorry if this seems harsh; this place is geared towards heavy critique and that's generally one of the only ways to improve your skill level.
Aside from the issues, the silhouette is fairly interesting and I'm totally digging the design of those panties.

Edit: I checked out your da gallery. Awhile ago you did a couple of life studies of your girlfriend. The figures there have a pleasing looseness to them and I daresay they're much better than many of your more finished works. Do more drawing from reference and life!

[Aniviel833]

I apologise for not being more helpful in my post, but as far as anatomy, I am not experienced enough to pinpoint exactly where everything goes for you. Generally the implicit suggestion when someone criticizes your anatomy is to go find more reference-- even if you did this from a photo, a single ref can be misleading.

In my comments about the neck and shoulder, I am speaking to what I immediately perceived about the image. I don't think you're too terribly wrong with the placement of the neck, but especially with the collar covering up any muscle structure that might indicate the neck twisting, my first thought is that something in that area was awkward. I'm not saying the pose is impossible, just that it is not communicated well. Same with the shoulder; after looking down at the lower arm and sleeve, it is quickly obvious to a reasonable person what you were trying to show, but there is a difference between your audience immediately understanding what's going on and them having to puzzle out what you meant things to look like.

My eyes skip straight over the face and settle somewhere around her belly-button.

Did this means anything? Sorry it might just be my bad english that make me miss what you're saying.

Yes, and I'm sorry that I did not clarify. I am talking about your piece's movement and focal point. Movement refers to the way you arrange forms to cause the viewer's eye to move over them, and the focal point is the central point of interest in your piece. In this case, I say my eye is drawn towards the level of the belly button because revolving around that position are the interesting areas of the lines of the panties and the lacing of the bodice. These items are given lots of detail and are the most intricate and visually appealing things in your work. In this type of work I would assume you would want the attention drawn towards the sexy face of your subject, and you should accomplish in a couple of ways:
-adding more visual interest to her face (like a greater range of values to make it pop, shine in the eyes, and differing line weights)
-not composing the picture so that her head is squished into the corner of the page.

Actually this was posted as 'Finished Work' and been moved here... my posts are moved alot and I still don't understand each board rules here...

This was moved from the finally finished section because you're not a professional or intensely skilled artist. This board is frequented by some of the contemporary best, and though you deem your piece finished, it could use work according to the high standards in this forum.

[Alekiel]

I did a crappy red line for you. Its not perfect, but I think it'll give you an idea of how I think it should look.

1. The hair line seemed to be too high. And for that matter, I think the head overall was oddly shaped.
2. Like already pointed out, the neck didn't seem to connect to the spine correctly. The neck doesn't just disappear when it connects to the upper chest. It actually continues a bit longer, and finished before your ribs cage actually start (Sorry, dunno what's the name of that bone in English. Clavicula?). Therefore, it looks better if you make it look like the neck is continues on the chest a bit.
3. The hand was off. However, I did man-hands, so don't use them as reference. <.<;.
4. The other hand was a bit forced. It's possible, but too awkward, and she seems to be supposed to be relaxed, so a relaxed hand is better. That and it seemed like the arm was also too long, but since I am not sure what you intended to aim with the shoulder and so...
5. Where is the shoulder? I think it could be behind the coat, but... Then it wouldn't feel like it disappeared like that. Cloth folds and stuff.
6. Eh. Her waist is a bit inclined, so it should be more notorious in the abdominal area. Unfortunately, women are not always 0% in corporal fat, so yeah...
7. The legs seemed way too long.

[Mitchell]

I didn't do any life studies, I just 'copied' what I saw. I can't draw real life pictures without seeing them and my art can't follow real life lines... also I absolutely hate drawing real life.

I'd be careful saying that around here. Lot's of people might just jump on your back for it.

I was going to write a nice constructive critique, until I read your responses to some of the other people, and figured out you have the wrong mindset of a good artist:

First things first, GET RID OF YOUR "HOW TO DRAW MANGA BOOK." I garuntee you that will will learn far more drawing from life, than you ever will with a "how to draw manga" book.

And second, I've noticed you try to cover up your shortcomings saying it's your "style". Horrible, horrible answer. Style does not hinder your knowledge or drawing ability, or lack thereof. Take a look at an artist like Bengal, (you can find him up above where those little icons are at the top of the page.) or Cheeks-74 (also up top in the icons) Those are examples of artists that have a "style" that is not necessarily considered realistic, but it is believable and knowledgable, and you can tell they have focused on "real life" drawing and learning the core basics of art and beyond, to arrive at the style that they CHOOSE to draw.

third, get rid of your digital tools, you are not yet ready for the digital medium. infact take a whole year (or two) away from it and just fill up as many sketchbooks as you can, drawing from life, GOOD artbooks (loomis, Bridgman, Hogarth...) and the occasional ref picture. The digital medium is not going to help your drawing ability, it's only going exploit your flaws, and then sprinkle some glitter on top.

fourth, DA is not considered the best place for any kind of critique, or place to improve on your art. Yes, there are some artists there that are pretty good, but I garuntee you that they didn't become good by going to DA all day and doing "free commish". Those artists have done everything that I just told you to do. So It'd be wise to stay in this community, look at the good artists, soak up the critiques you get, make a Sketchbook here, and learn from the knowledgable individuals in this community.

I don't even want to critique your image because there are too many things to talk about, that I don't want to type out.
So if you are serious about doing art for a living and getting better, then take this advice. And when you do this, you will then be able to see everything wrong with this image. And please don't reply back by making an excuse for everything I just wrote. So go draw now.

(such a great smilie.)

[Brendan N]

You would do well to listen to the Skeiff.

[Whyatt Thrash]

And welcome to CA!

[praeclaris]

Life first, style later

If worst comes to worst, and you just can't seem to draw from life, try having your friends pose for you in photos, to practice hand eye coordination (if your complaining about shaky hands).

Note that practicing from photos is no replacement for some good old life drawing, but it can improve your precision.

[Pezz]

Your lack of willingness to accept critique makes my inner artist a sad panda. In fact it's downright insulting.

But I must ad my two cents.

I am pretty tired, haven't been able to sleep. I just wanted to point out that her right hand appears mangled and broken at the knuckles. Her arms are either much too short or her legs much too long, probably a combination of the two, but I see it mostly in the legs. As in her lower legs/feet are as long as her neck, torso, and upper thigh put together.

Sure the pose is possible, but it looks dreadfully stiff and uncomfortable. I do not think I have EVER made a pose like that in my life walking naturally. I am imagining myself in my work uniform making everything a perfect profile view. I could call myself the blue pac man, i'd make a million dollars!

I can't figure out your light sources at all, they look like they're all over the place for sake of making everythign pop out at once. I don't think purple vynil/latex would reflect true white... but correct me if I'm wrong, all the fetish gear I've ever worn or seen (and bloody believe me I'm an expert in this field) would have more or less stark highlights in this regard.. the corset is shimmering same with the tiny shorts/panties. It looks very unnatural, I think you could stand to add more depth. Why would one breast have such a specular highlight and the other a different one? This makes the piece very distracting, and hurts my eyes.

This is the part where I get mad and motivating... Now get to work. Don't be self-defeatiest and say 'oh its now or never i'll never be great' because that sort of f*cking attitude is what makes artists fail. It's what makes us all fail.

I know what it's like... To have every ambition, hope, and dream feel like it's been sucked away from you as though God is laughing at you and mocking you? I felt like that for a long time, m'friend. Art was the only hope I had, the only bloody spark that kept me going. And all you can do is get better from here, if you are willing to accept criticism with an open mind and heart instead of taking offense and defending every little detail of your artwork like it's the next ceiling of the sistine chapel.

I cannot stand to see people reject other artists' words and kind help. Do you realize what a gift this site is, what a wonderful tool this place has become? You do not know how blessed you are to be here and receive help instead of relentless praise. It's completely insulting to the artists who are putting their time and effort into giving you advice about your work, when obviously all you want to do is show it off to people.

Do you even care about our input?

Listen. Do. Draw. Observe. DO IT NOW.

and also... Welcome

[Whyatt Thrash]

Maybe if you applied yourself and worked hard to improve, you wouldn't have so much trouble giving away free drawings...
Now cut the excuses and get to work!

[alesoun]

So, basically, you just want "Ooohs and Aaaahs?", not critique that might actually help you if you were to give it a try?

[Cookiedough]

Manga is a stylistic version of real life. Thus, you should understand what's going on in real life to be able to apply that succesfully. So, it's not boring and time wasting...

Also, i don't really get what you mean with shaky on a small Wacom in Illustrator. As a frequent Illustrator use, i've never gotten this problem as it tends to smooth out your line.

And you don't have to do things at once, patience can get you very far in life.

[Jason Rainville]

I was to write a long and endless complain again. But I'll short it to

I WANT TO DRAW MANGA AND NOT REAL LIFE!

I don't want to draw highly detailed stuff, it is just boring and time wasting. As for lightsource, there is none. I just used some template from Photoshop. Also, words and pictures (self-teaching) is useless with me, it would take too long and I'd lose interest. (And i don't have the financial budget to even go to an art school... and all of them are out of town... and out of Quebec.)

Whatever I say, yes I want to improve, and I know one thing for sure, I am doing stuff in random order... so actually I doubt I should post anymore picture on this website, it is either too advanced or unrelated to my goal.

Hi

First of all, the reasons for being moved: The finally finished section is more of a gallery, to show off professional or advanced level work. Things that need improvement are moved here, where critiqque is more intense. But even here, images need to be done or nearly done. If not, they're moved to the sketches section, where works in progress belong.

Now, you don't want to draw realism. First of all I'd say you're wrong in that it's boring or a waste of time. I'd go so far to say that like me, you used your current 'style' as a reason for not putting the work into learning how to draw realistically.

Bur let's put that aside. You want to draw manga. Alright, well why are we telling you to draw from life? Because guess what - anime people are still made of muscles and faces and LIFE. They're based off of what we see, they're stylizations of real life. Just as a mathematician can't create any new theories without knowing 2+2=4, anime artists cannot create a convincing and professional looking figure until they have a solid grounding in realism.

I repeat: anime artists NEED to have a SOLID grounding in realism and proper anatomy before they stylize it. The same goes for comic artists, 'near-realism' artists, even abstract artists should ideally know the basic foundations of art.

If you don't want to put in the neccessary work in order to get better, then please never post here again. If you really want to get better, and want to learn from a lot of knowledgable people, then please stay and listen.

[bumskee]

Actually I think this board's tips and tricks are too advanced anyway.

yeah especially if you think studies are waste of time and real life is boring as sticks...

there's lot of great advices here, don't just dismiss it.. it's probably not something you wanted to hear but it will help you become a better artist..

[Renegade89]

I was to write a long and endless complain again. But
I was to write a long and endless complain again. But I'll short it to

I WANT TO DRAW MANGA AND NOT REAL LIFE!

I don't want to draw highly detailed stuff, it is just boring and time wasting. As for lightsource, there is none. I just used some template from Photoshop. Also, words and pictures (self-teaching) is useless with me, it would take too long and I'd lose interest. (And i don't have the financial budget to even go to an art school... and all of them are out of town... and out of Quebec.)

Whatever I say, yes I want to improve, and I know one thing for sure, I am doing stuff in random order... so actually I doubt I should post anymore picture on this website, it is either too advanced or unrelated to my goal.

Thats the worst reply ever! seriously, the worst attitude possible.
People here are giving advice for a reason, it doesnt have anything to do with style, if you dont take what you do seriously and learn the proper path you will never improve and never achieve any style at all.
ITS NOT UNRELATED TO YOUR GOAL. have you seen the front page?, or browse through the FF?, there are awesome artist here who draw with manga influence and they sure havent got there by reading "how to draw manga". Those books are compilations of crappy templates to make complete suckers feel they can draw with no effort and make money out of it.Of course you will learn nothing.Well, maybe your goal is just to get your ass kissed by a bunch of DA kids, thats no hard to achieve.
The tutorials here are too advanced? what? they are just the rigth level, if it seems hard well, do you think drawing should be a piece of cake? answer yourself that.
Is your problem if you stay here or not, that DA attitude sucks, after a few months you will be making the same dumb journals every "how to draw manga " kid makes every once in a while, about not improving and having art blocks for "unknown" reasons .

If you excuse me, ill continue with my anatomy notes and reading some Burne Hogarth, every time i look a thread like this, just inspires me to study more and get away as much as i can from it.

Btw guys, this icon is just too cool, kudos to the genius who made it

[Lotet]

I was to write a long and endless complain again. But I'll short it to

I WANT TO DRAW MANGA AND NOT REAL LIFE!

I don't want to draw highly detailed stuff, it is just boring and time wasting. As for lightsource, there is none. I just used some template from Photoshop. Also, words and pictures (self-teaching) is useless with me, it would take too long and I'd lose interest. (And i don't have the financial budget to even go to an art school... and all of them are out of town... and out of Quebec.)

Whatever I say, yes I want to improve, and I know one thing for sure, I am doing stuff in random order... so actually I doubt I should post anymore picture on this website, it is either too advanced or unrelated to my goal.

translation: im lazy and dont want to improve enough to
do anything about it



anyhow....to u others, dont care, this dude got the wrong atitude, go back to DA or whatev

[Whyatt Thrash]

"Theoretical" drawing? You mean the "knowledge" of drawing as opposed to the "ignorance" of drawing?

Dude, noone here's yelling at you. If anyone's pissed off, it's because you come on here claiming you want criticism, then the good people at these forums spend a lot of time giving you really good advice and you brush it all off with "heh, I can't be bothered". So you've just been wasting a lot of good people's time that could have been spent on someone who was really interested in making something of themself.

What people are trying to make you understand is that talking to you (with the standards you currently hold for yourself) is a complete waste of breath, cause you're content in your DA mediocrity. Your skills, pretenses, time, money, location is not the problem, it's your "Don't wanna, can't do it..." attitude.

You can go back to DA and believe all the "OMFG U arz the Awsomsurz!" BS that they feed you. And then when you find your art stagnating, your inspiration and ability crumble into a mediocre mess of half-baked anime fanart, you're more than welcome back here to actually learn something.

You're right, these advice are too advanced for you. Not artistically, but they're way above your expectations of yourself. You need to believe that you can actually improve, and understand that following the advice of more experienced artists than you is the way to go.

You lack that confidence and insight. So we're shooting arrows faaar over your head.

[Mitchell]

I'd expect this attitude out of a 12 or 13 year old. maybe even 15-16.

But 24??

I don't think this one can be saved guys.. just let his ship sink and wave bye.

[alesoun]

Whyatt Trash? The thread below this is asking for crits, and the guy concerned put in 15 hours a painting........

[Whyatt Thrash]

What, so now I'm resident critique-giver-person... guy? R.C, yeah, that's my new title!

The painting you're referring to is way above my level... Note that I didn't even crit on this guy's artwork to begin with, I just reacted to all the people that were actually trying to help him out but got blown off. So I thought it was worth one last attempt to get him to see the point, and return from the Dark Side...

"Once you to the DeviantArt side turn, no way back there is..."

I suppose that preaching to the deaf, we are...

[alesoun]

There's always the "Ooohs and Aaah's" section for this; but I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Pity, actually, I think the poster here has potential, but if she won't use it,- nuttin' we can do, is there?

And yep. One of the two in the post below has already been critted well by the poster.

RC? Why not! You got a good eye....

[Whyatt Thrash]

I don't think it's quite "Ooohs and aaaahs" level actually, cause I've understood that's more for people impervious to their own mistakes... It seems that this guy knows he's got problems. He's just too lazy to try to fix them.

P.S Check out my user title...

[feitian]

You chill and listen for a while. Its Turkyday here so I'll make this quick. Studying real anatomy definitely helps, both gestural (how your character moves) and just basically anatomy (help your character not look awkward). Start with the neck, this part you'll have to watch out for in terms of surface anatomy is the landmark is clavicles, Sternocleidomastoid, trapezius. On the arm, notice that how deltoid (the large muscles of your shoulder) never reaches much above the clavicles and maintain its shapes and bugles and it can obscure clavicle in certain angles, you don't get details like this unless you study from life. :3 Also a lot of the anime (ones that are actually pretty good) I have seen have illustrated that they are quite mindful of those structures. Personally I am not against whatever you use to learn it, but drawing from life is definitely one of the best way to do it. In terms of the body, what you have to watch out for the major landmarks includes ribcage, the pelvis, take notice the volume and how they change human body's overall curvature as we twist and turns. A lot of the gestural type of drawing often started with a curve indicating the direction of the action and indicating head, ribcage and pelvis on top of it.

[Renegade89]

I would like to thank you Feitian, kudos for having the patience and the nice will to give such a nice critique at this point, everyone else pretty much has gave up on this guy already,and with enough reasons to do so.
It will certainly be very upsetting if the guy decides to blow you off like he has made with everyone else,(hope he gets at least some sense) but it certainly doesnt mean your input is not welcome.

Kalahee, if you just were able to change the attitude a little you will find out how much of a valuable resource this site is, hope you at least think about it a little.

[kev ferrara]

I Just Want To Draw Manga Too!! Yayyy!!! Manga! Manga! Manga! Manga! Manga! Manga! Manga! Manga! Manga! Manga! Manga! Manga! Manga! Manga! Manga! Manga! Manga! Manga! Manga!