littlellama goes Emo with figures & Ashess

[littlellama]

and here's the final sheet out of my first batch of skeletal figure drawing! With improved skeletal structure, the flesh seems to want me to draw it in to complete it. Can't wait to get to muscles! =) Thanks again Ashess for your patience, this took way too long, will try to get it to you sooner next time!

[ashess]

hello llama ye its been a while. still, I've had a pretty special week so I cant say I mind. first, I love how much better you lines are getting. its really improving the overall feel of your work. second.. I will try to get to expressions, but lets look at body language first. and on that part, I think this exercize already did quite a bit! I can really read what you ppl are doing quite well, so great job there.
now, a few pointers. I would like you to try the magazine once more, and this time place the sheet over the page. maybe you'll need to take out the page and do it over the window, but try and draw in the character over the actual foto. best way for me to be able to tell how you've done would be to scan both the drawings and the magazinepage.
but I have already noticed some general problems. as you said, with the body area. first, you have the tendency to make the distance between chest and pelvis. I think thats why you felt the pelvis was too big, becuase you might have some big ones on your first page, but as you progress, the pelvis keeps getting smaller and smaller. here's an example of a ladi sitting. notice you the pelvis is as broad as the shoulders. with some women broader.

I also did some sketches here of the chest. the best way is to think of the chest as a kind of barrel, cut off on the bottem. the chest is not quite as deep as it is wide, but it comes closer then you may think.
second, the area between the two circles does not want to stay one size. perhaps it is better at this stage to draw a solid wedge between the two circles presenting the pelvis. a lot of basic models just draw the wedge instead of the circles, but the circles are there, so try and keep them in.

[littlellama]

thanks Ashess, perhaps I will select images from the web then trace them on the screen. Then include the images to show you as well.

[ashess]

you dont have a wacom do you? then you could do it straight in photoshop.

[littlellama]

I do have a wacom, I just didn't think of doing it that way since I completely separated my sketches & paintings in terms of traditional/digital.

But I guess it does make sense, I'm just worried about how crappy I would do on the switch to digital for figure drawing, guess there's only one way to find out! =)

[ashess]

haha. well, I had some trouble at the start, but you got used to it in a couple of weeks. its worth learning tough. there's a lot you can do digitally that's just impossible analogue.. as you well know I bet!

[littlellama]

I'm back! Sorry for the long delay, had quite a few life things to keep me occupied over the holidays. Happy New Year 2008 by the way!!!

Here are the assignment results. I was a bit unsure about the chest area, so it's not as precise as I would like it in that area. Thanks for your patience! =)

[littlellama]

more assignment unloading!

[littlellama]

more assignment unloading!!!

[ashess]

glad to see your back lama! and so many exersizes!
well they should give you a feel of what we're looking for. be carefull of two things though. sometimes you kinda 'rough-guess' the pelvis area, like in the last batch, the black guy in front of the mirror, you got the reflection right, but the in the real one, his pelvis is obscured by his shirt. you kinda just draw it under there. 2nd, quite a few times you neglet volume. if you cant get exactly the right shape, perhalps use a box to get the right direction.
last, you're using a wacom tablet. with what programm? I cant help but notice the lines are 1 thickness and a little wobbly. with shape dynamics in most painting programs, you dont get that.
its fine for the exercize of course, just wondering if you got the right settings/ programm so we can do more digital stuff if we want.

[ashess]

well, I bet you can guess the next exercize- draw from the heart, and just make it the rough sketches based on the scematics from our first exercize. the goal is to think up your own pose, but a good stepping stone is to take one of the pictures you've drawn a skeleton into already, give m one last look, and then do it by heart

[littlellama]

thanks thanks =) You are correct, I tried to implement the structure with what I remembered as "correct", I think I had more luck just building my own 3d geometric shape and drawing that in. Hopefully with more practice in freeform drawing I can figure out the proper 3d structures to draw.

I purposely set the wacom tablet in photoshop to not use pressure sensitive settings for this exercise, so it is not accidental don't worry. =) I will reset it to the normal values for any other digital drawings.

glad to see your back lama! and so many exersizes!
well they should give you a feel of what we're looking for. be carefull of two things though. sometimes you kinda 'rough-guess' the pelvis area, like in the last batch, the black guy in front of the mirror, you got the reflection right, but the in the real one, his pelvis is obscured by his shirt. you kinda just draw it under there. 2nd, quite a few times you neglet volume. if you cant get exactly the right shape, perhalps use a box to get the right direction.
last, you're using a wacom tablet. with what programm? I cant help but notice the lines are 1 thickness and a little wobbly. with shape dynamics in most painting programs, you dont get that.
its fine for the exercize of course, just wondering if you got the right settings/ programm so we can do more digital stuff if we want.

[ashess]

hey llama. its been a while. any progress on inventing your own poses?
if its not working maybe you can tell me what problems you are encountering then I can help you out!

[littlellama]

Here's my assignment! Sorry for the long delay, I was stuck with a bunch of other projects that required my immediate attention.

I found a random fractal design on the web, then used it as the landscape/restriction to place my skeleton figures.

The body mass I have drawn are just from me guessing, so the muscle mass and structures will not be accurate most likely. But one step at a time I suppose! =)

[ashess]

hey Llama, dont worry about it, it happens.
well, I guess we should start getting into some anatomy now. but lets just
but lets finish up here first.
stickfigure look to me to be fine, so lets flesh them out a little.
keep thinking of the chest as a barrel or a box btw; sometimes you flatten it a little. take knees heads and shoulders to be balls, the libs as tubes with a little bulge somewhere usually above the middle.

[littlellama]

hey Llama, dont worry about it, it happens.
well, I guess we should start getting into some anatomy now. but lets just
but lets finish up here first.
stickfigure look to me to be fine, so lets flesh them out a little.
keep thinking of the chest as a barrel or a box btw; sometimes you flatten it a little. take knees heads and shoulders to be balls, the libs as tubes with a little bulge somewhere usually above the middle.

hey Ashess, thank you! Do you mean I should go back to the skeleton step, and build a more 3D skeleton first? What do you think about my fleshed figures?

[ashess]

ah, whoops, my bad llama. I was so caught up in how I'd planned it I didnt realize you'd finished the last step already, but before I intended to. yes, they look pretty good. be carefull not to just 'thicken' what you got for skelleton, but draw in the big masses first. hmm.. I guess this means the next part should be up. let me get some ref.

[ashess]

ok, lets get this show back on track.
now, llama, let me start by saying I think you're making great progress already. good job! the biggest problems I see right now are,
1- you sometimes have trouble placing masses right
2- you dont really use lines to show debth yet.
also, you complained about not knowing enough anatomy.
well, lucky you; I got you some bone pics!
picture 1-4(attachments) are the right arm. 1 is frontal (palm to us), 2 is from behind the figure (palm away from us too) 3 is from the side (thumb is closest to us), and 4 is seen from the body's pov; pinky closest to us.
now, a lot of stuff goes on in the arm, but lets start off with the hand.
I know its usual to start with heads in this, but hands have a lot more oppertunity to show overlap. besides, there's very little muscle to be seen in the hand, and I just want to start with the bones for now. they be trouble enough. anyway, the only thing that shows of you skill in drawing more then a good executed hand is, in my view, a foot :p

this is how a see the hand. the palm is often described as a wedge. the thumb's base is lodged against it, like a piramid. the fingers can be seen as a chain held together by the joints. then making up hands, its important to keep the rows of joints (like, first joints from pinky to index) on a curve.
start by looking for some good rev pics. I particular mean pictures of hands where fingers overlap or are in deep perspective. when drawing them, start with putting in the masses (red)


ok, assignment time:
first, draw the bones from the hands from all 4 views (you can leave the arm out for now)
second, look for rev photos. start putting in the wedge and thumbroot and finger joints in, then fill in the masses.
third, put a new piece of paper over the drawing from 2. try making a line drawing. not an outline! when a form overlaps, the lines should do the same.