Lyra rides the bear

[Chris Bennett]

This is done entirely in Photoshop. I'm completely new to digital painting (well up untill 6 weeks ago) and have adopted it in order to move over from fine art to illustration. After a lot of false starts I found that using a bog standard default sharp round brush set at 60% opacity allowed me to focus on what I was saying as opposed to being seduced by the bewildering variety of effects at my disposal.
Thus my question is:
If I wanted to make this look like it was painted then I would use traditional media. Thus, does the 'look' of the handwriting feel OK to you guys and girls? Your feedback on this point will be really appreciated - especially since my self imposed deadline for hauling stuff before literary agents is fast approaching.....

[PuppyKitten]

I apologize if I'm being dumb, but I don't see any "handwriting" in the picture. Do you mean the hand-painted look? If you're asking about the style then it's gorgeous (although the blotchiness of the snow grabs my attention a lot (as much as the bear right now).

If you mean you are going to add text then I don't know how it would look or even where it would go in this particular piece.

[Elwell]

Getting there, but you're not done, Chris.

[Chris Bennett]

I apologize if I'm being dumb, but I don't see any "handwriting" in the picture. Do you mean the hand-painted look? If you're asking about the style then it's gorgeous (although the blotchiness of the snow grabs my attention a lot (as much as the bear right now).

If you mean you are going to add text then I don't know how it would look or even where it would go in this particular piece.

No need to apologise PuppyKitten - I shouldn't use my own verbal shorthand and expect everyone to know what I'm on about. By 'handwriting' I mean the brushmarks, caligraphy of the wacom pen and the look of the marks - that sort of stuff.

[Chris Bennett]

Getting there, but you're not done, Chris.

Thanks Elwell, but do you mean I should polish this in Photoshop or push it to a conclusion using traditional media? If it were about polishing it then it would be easier (and more pleasant) to do it in paint. I'm particularly interested in your take on this since you produce everything in oils but have wondered about the possibilities of digital painting.

[FIG]

Take it to a more finished look by using Photoshops smaller brushes. Lets see those details. I love your sense of color and this looks like a really detailed color comp

[poise]

hey Chris I like this version of Lyra rideing Iorek. I would say leave it. I like the loosness, and in my opinion it doesn't need to be tightened up. I just took it in Photoshop and got rid of the gray boarder, I think it might look fresh with a white boarder instead, just a suggestion.
I wouldn't mind seeing this in Oil either, would be really nice.
-T

[Elwell]

Thanks Elwell, but do you mean I should polish this in Photoshop or push it to a conclusion using traditional media? If it were about polishing it then it would be easier (and more pleasant) to do it in paint. I'm particularly interested in your take on this since you produce everything in oils but have wondered about the possibilities of digital painting.

If you're comfortable using acrylics, why not? As long as you can scan or digitally shoot stuff you're not at any technical disadvantage. You could certainly produce something digitally that's the equivalent of your acrylic work, but this isn't it yet. As a presentation sketch it's more than fine, but it doesn't feel like a finished piece to me. It's not the looseness, it's the handwriting. The hard edged round brush just screams Photoshop, and not in an interesting way. I think if you're going to pursue this you need to play around with the brush engine some more, get some more texture or ragged edges in there.

[Fireflights]

I think the heavy shading around Lyra is making her look like she's sitting in the bear, almost. Like he's got a chunk cut out of him for a seat. This could also be the result of Lyra looking like she's riding something that's relatively flat on either side - I would imagine the bulk of the bear would make her arms and legs splay out a bit more.

[edit] or, actually, that could be the highlights right next to her body, rather than the shadows...maybe both are contributing?[/edit]

[sourgasm]

texture, texture, texture. google up "texture brush photoshop" or "nature brush photoshop," and just play with whatever you find. head to imaginefx.com and download brushes from their archives. don't work towards a complete image. load up a huge canvas, fill it with 50% grey and then just paint away. change textures often. change scatter options often. grab a random photo of a natural texture, paste it over the whole image and change the layer settings back and forth. experiment for kicks.

you have tons of natural ability. you don't need to practice that at this point. just play with the brush engine.

you're going to be turning out great stuff in no time at all.

[Seedling]

Squeeee! Chris, this is such exciting work to see from you!

I love the composition and colors. Lyra’s butt seems a bit low in the back of the bear. About the digital mark-making – look around for some brush-making tutorials, and ditch the generic round brush.

Oh, everybody has said all this alread. I should read first, then write. Cheers!

[Chris Bennett]

FIG: Thanks for your reply, It's not detail that is giving me the problem so much as the limitations of what you can infer with digital techniques in the way I am using it. Real paint, in it's serendipity, is such a huge ally in this. But your feeling about it is, I think right.

poise: Yes, I am saying everything that I want to say in this piece (hence it is in the 'finally finished' section) but the handwriting itself is distracting I feel, and the feedback is confirming this. I promise to post up the oil/acrylic painting when it is done. I notice you have illustrated The Golden Compass too - It seems very suited to your style. It is an interesting challenge because the story doesn't call on any of the one size fits all 'Generic Fantasy' formulas. Did you find this?

Elwell: Thanks for taking the trouble in getting back to me on this. You are 100% right - not the looseness but the handwriting. As I mentioned above, I have realised on reflection following the comments that it is distracting and doesn't serve any purpose other than to anounce the existence of Photoshop. It is as if the mark making is stripped of the 'blood' it possessed when realised in physical paint, turning one's painting thought processes into a sort of diagram of intent........I've thus began to paint the thing for real and it's just behind me as I type.

Fireflights: What you say is very useful regarding repainting the thing for real. Yes, she does seem in a saddle a bit and gives me an extra incentive to redo this with paint and canvas. Many thanks for your constructive help - what you suggest about her legs being splayed is the perfect key into putting it right.

sourgasm: Yes, the problem is the marks and I am going to have to get very familiar with texture if I am to use photoshop as something other than a quick way to bang out studies. I've had a go at downloading some brushes but get terribly confused about where to 'save' them in order to access them in photoshop. Help on this would be fantastically appreciated. Thankyou anyway, for the info on the site and the texture practice advice, not to mention your very kind words of encouragement!

Michelle: I'm really pleased you like it seedy! You are right about Lyra's butt (we say backside here in the UK - butt and tush sound so much more glamourous to us limeys! - no, really!) and it is being duely corrected (that sounds a bit rude!) now that I have began a real painting.
I'm going to use PS for quick studies and proposals and finish stuff in paint. While I'm doing that I will do some serious woodshedding with PS textures and brushes.
What happened to that Acrylics thread of yours by the way?

[Iliada]

Looks gorgeous =)

I really like your style, and it's difficult to find anything to criticize, besides one fact: Lyra has blonde hair!

[ICH]

Hey Chris, I like the palette and the general mood of your painting. Nice sense of perspective on the ground. I don't know the original novel (it's the Golden Compass?) but it seems that character ride on a cloud. That is really evocative, expecially whit that half-half moon. I really like it!
The head of the child is little disturbing me, seems a little too turned.
Honestly, your work seems clearly a photoshop work, but I think that is not a problem. Digital work, IMHO, have not to be a clone of another media but just a new kind of media.

About textures and brushes: usually photoshop brushes are collected on *.abr file, patterns on *.pat file. You can save that files everywere and easily load on photoshop whit the Preset Manager under Edit menu. Just select the kind of preset (brushes, patterns, gradients, etc...) and press load; browse your disk to find *.abr or *.pat file and then you'll see some new presets at the end of your list.
On preset manager you can easily manage, delete, rename and move your presets (right click on a thumb for more options, simply drag for moving). You can also select (ctrl or shift click, like usual on Windows) and export your personal set for backup purpose or if you want to use on another PC.
There's another quick way to manage brushes and pattern, using the small circle icon at top right of Brushes palette and Pattern Preview window, but Preset Manager seems more useful and complete.

Anyway, I think that is really useful playing whit brush engine, but there is thousands ways to find a style on digital paint, not just "texture texture texture, brush brush brush, google google google or spread pieces of photopicture on your work and paint over", come on! There's a lot of good artist here that use just a simply hard edge round brush and create his own textures directly on the painting whit brush strokes.
Digital painting allow you to speed up some things, correct a lot of errors easily, create some strong impressive effects... but IMHO, all shortcut have the same risk, and everyday we can see a lot of non-unique works on the net.
So, IMHO, playing whit digital tricks are strong useful, but...handle whit care. The only one great concept is "fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals"...but I see that you, Chris, are good on this.

[Yannertastic]

wonderful wondeful work! I'm reminded stylistically of Jeff Jones, was there a hint of inspiration there?

I actually noticed the subject matter and composition before the marks, if youre looking for a less tech produced stroke you might want to check out Painter or Artrage (cheaper version with great reviews)

Your work always stands out to me :-) love seeing it.

[Seedling]

Hi Chris!
As fun as it is to seeing you get into digital stuff, I am excited to see you do the final version of this in actual paint. Long live paint!

I totally dropped the ball on that acrylics thread – sorry about that! I’ll see about finishing that up this week. I know I got at least halfway through it before being fatally distracted.

[Chris Bennett]

Iliada: Gah! You're right! I'm going to try and make her a blonde in the painting - providing of course it doesn't screw up the composition, otherwise she will have had to dye her hair brunette for her tip up north. Thanks for you encouragement by the way!

ICH: Thanks so much for such an informative and thoughtfull post - I've saved your instructions onto a seperate file which I will use when downloading brushes etc.
You are completely right about the dangers of being seduced by the 'software cloak' that is so easy to put on and hide behind. The only trouble for me at the moment is that I'm rather self conscious wearing it and keep tripping on the hem! Practice, time and the help of the good people here will sort it out I am sure. Anyway, thanks for taking time to look at what I've done and for being so generous with your help - I hope to be able to do the same for you and the others when the opportunity comes.

Yannertastic: You are too, too kind! As for the Jeff Jones thing, you can blame Seedling for that - all her fault, no doubt about it. She gave me a link to his website after seeing the Serafina Pekkala thing I did. It completely knocked me sideways! I wasn't trying to make something like him but clearly it's having a big influence - I've always had a thing about achieving a strong design before anything else and my colour sense is really a warm/cool thing, even though I would like to have more sophisticated gifts in this department. Coming from the fine art side of things I'm a painterly painter that thinks in 'little stories of little moments'. All these things come together beautifully in Jeffrey Jones' work and I identified with what he was doing immediately. Anyway, so nice of you to take the trouble to speak of your enthusiasm and a warm thanks for that.

Seedling: You see what you've done Michelle!!! (See my reply to Yannertastic above) The Jeffrey Jones link has changed my life for ever....and I can't hide it! - It's a bit like going round with your shirt hanging out.
I'm in the middle of the painting right now and I will post it up when finished. How do you amend the thread title to say 'Updated.....' on the thread title?
I hope you get the Acrylics thread going - I even took some process shots after you asked me about it in order to post them up!

[ICH]

Hey Chris, I'm glad that my post can be useful. I also find this link: http://www.myjanee.com/tuts/brushmgmt/brushmgmt.htm that can be more useful than my instructions.

About the "software cloacks", I think that you are not so in danger whit this. It's obvious that you have a good knowledge of fundamentals, and great practice whit analog media, so, I think that you are in the right way. The time necessary to learn new media can give us a lot of fun, we just have to enjoy! ;-]

[carnalizer]

I'm not an authority on anything here, but I'm reading that you want a natural media look, you liked a rather limited toolset. To me that is saying you should quit photoshop and focus on painter, or heck even artrage. Using photoshop is for those who like to use effects and montages. If you like the painting process then photoshop is the long way around.

Also looking at the picture, I'm thinking that if you had done the exactly the same thing, but in painter, it would have gone from really good to absolutely gorgeous! Someone mentioned textures, and custom brushes. Well that's what painter does only not the artificial, overlaid kind you get in photoshop.

Great pic!

[Chris Bennett]

ICH: Thanks a million ICH! that link you posted is really helpful! - Its gone straight into my favourites menu. Analogue Media - a much better expression than my 'real paint' one.

carnaliser: Thanks, it's really useful getting comments on this from people with experience in the field. Someone I know is bringing his laptop over and is going to show me what Painter can do. Like you, he reckons it will feel more natural for me and I'll be more comfortable using it. Anyway, thanks again for your encouragement and info.

[Robert.B]

nice, but i wish you didnt use the same brush stroke through out the whole piece.

[ayoli]

First of all, i wanted to say that i have seen this speed-painting and i was not impressed by the technical skill. But there was something else. And i went back to see your picture again. I followed the link to your web-site and i understood.
Your painting is magic, and this precious feeling did not disapeared with the round photoshop brush.

You can manage with practice to have a similar aspect on a canvas or on computer graphic. And the advices told before are good.
Like it was said, even with the round brush you can have fine results, but i believe that it is usefull to create our own brushes.
Exemple is one of the best way to learn.
I have made some which can be interesting for you.
I can send them by mail if you want (around 4 megabits).
And i could comment the way of creating them if you need. (with my poor english...)

A way to thank you, your paintings made me feel good.

[Chris Bennett]

Your painting is magic, and this precious feeling did not disapeared with the round photoshop brush.

That is a truly lovely thing to say ayoli - and your generosity of spirit leaves me feeling quite humble. It would be marvelous to recieve those brushes of yours - I would make a painting especially with your spirit in mind as I used them. If you use my email then I will send you the image, as soon as I am happy with it by way of the warmest thankyou.

Here is my wife's translation!.....

C'est vraiment tres gentil de dire cela, ayoli, et votre generosite d'esprit me touche profondement. Ce serait merveilleux de recevoir tes brosses ! Je garderais votre sentiment dans mon esprit en les utilisant pour peindre. Si vous utilisez mon addresse email pour envoyer les brosses, je vous enverrais l'image des que je l'aurai fini pour vous dire un grand merci !

Amities,
Chris

[ayoli]

Did you recieved my two emails ?

[LauraD]

I love love love LOVE the feeling in that piece.

[Chris Bennett]

Robert.B: Sorry I missed the reply to your post - thanks for looking in and you are right about the monotony of the photoshop brush mark, everyones feedback has helped to get my ass in gear on this.

LauraD: Thanks so much for that Laura - although the handwriting of the brushmarks is a big problem, what I am saying in the piece is obviously getting through and it is lovely to get such a response as yours!

Okaaaay......
Here is the 'analogue' or painted version (acrylic) I promised. I have included two close ups. I hope the feeling is still getting through. Not quite as good a two dimensional design but Lyra is better seated on the bear. The hem of her coat bothers me but I've got two very promising paintings (illustrations) on the block right now and I am keen to finish them.
.

[Elwell]

Now we're talking!

[csteingart]

Love the digital, but ya, you've said so much more with the acrylic one. Beautiful.

-c

[Chris Bennett]

Phew, that's really good to know fellas.....I'm so close to it at the moment my powers of judgement are not that reliable. Thanks for looking and posting.

[Silvertone]

Nice work, the angle of the bears head feels a tad strange to me. Like I want to see the head turned a smidge one way or the other to see a bit more of the face.