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Thread: Mentoring in Animal Anatomy and Creature Design -- Muscles, Part One

  1. #181
    Moai's Avatar
    Moai is offline Cory Trego-Erdner
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    Mammals, continued even more

    I'll try to wrap up the rest of the mammals with this post. There aren't that many groups left to cover.

    Sirenians
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    Image source: http://www.skullsunlimited.com/Manatee_Skull.html
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    Image source: http://www.skullsunlimited.com/Dugong_Skull.htm
    Sirenians include the manatees, dugongs, and sea cows. Similarly to whales, they have evolved short forelimbs, a streamlined body shape, large tail vertebrae, and tiny pelvic bones as all that remains of the hind legs. Note the thickness of the ribs and the way the transverse processes of the rear vertebrae are shaped like smaller ribs. The skull is unusually shaped, but somewhat reminiscent of elephants, to which sirenians are related; the dugong skull at the bottom even has some tusk-like incisors.

    Embrithopods
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    Images from Wikipedia.
    Embrithopods, like Brontotheres and Dinoceratans, are large horned animals that flourished and went extinct at around the same time, many millions of years ago. Embrithopods are related to elephants and manatees. Their most obvious feature are the two pairs of horns on their head, one pair very large, and the other much smaller. Also note how heavily built the front limbs are, and how broad the scapulae and pelvis are. The skull has many identical teeth and two separate nasal openings, which make it seem somewhat reptilian.

    Primates
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    Source of above two images: http://www.dundee.ac.uk/museum/zoology/skeletons.htm
    Tarsier skeleton on Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/14405058@N08/2169684854/
    The prosimian primates are all primates that are not monkeys or apes. They include the well-known lemurs, and the somewhat less well-known bushbabies, lorises, and tarsiers. Their brain cases are not as large as in other primates, and their faces and jaws project outwards.
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    Source of above two images: http://www.nhc.ed.ac.uk/index.php?page=493.504.508.511
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    Image from skullsunlimited.com.
    Monkey skeleton on Flickr: link.
    Monkey skeletons are somewhat human-like, only more lightly built and quadrupedal, and with tails, obviously. They have large brain cases, and often projecting faces and large fangs, such as in mandrills and baboons. Unfortunately, there seems to be little in the way of quality monkey skeleton images on the internet.
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    Source of above three images: http://www.boneclones.com/catalog_great_apes.htm
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    Image source: http://www.dundee.ac.uk/museum/zoology/skeletons.htm
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    Image source: http://www.allposters.com/-sp/Human-..._i1586485_.htm
    The apes are the most humanlike animals, which is understandable, since humans are themselves apes. Giving a creature human-like characteristics can result in a very interesting creature design, or if done incorrectly, it can turn into a lame animal-with-human-parts-added type design.

    Rodents
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    Above three images from Wikipedia.
    The most distinctive part of the rodent skeleton is the skull. The incisors are very large and prominent, and there is a large gap between them and the molars; there are no canines. The zygomatic arch system is, in some subgroups of rodents, more complex than in other animals, featuring large holes and other structures not seen in other mammals. This can be seen clearly in the Digimorph page on the Springhare, and to a lesser extent on the Digimorph page on the common house mouse.

    Lagomorphs
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    Image source: http://www.dundee.ac.uk/museum/zoology/skeletons.htm
    Lagomorphs include rabbits and hares, as well as pikas. Their skeletons and skulls are very similar to the related rodents, but more adapted to hopping and bounding than many rodents.

    Marsupials
    All the preceding mammals have been placental mammals, which give birth to well-developed young. Marsupials, as you probably know, have a much shorter gestation period, and give birth to much smaller, less developed young, little more than embryos. These infants complete their development in a pouch. Thin wings of bone extend out from the pubis region of the pelvis to support this pouch, which is one of the few common skeletal features of what is a very diverse group of mammals.
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    Image source: http://www.nhc.ed.ac.uk/index.php?page=24.134.165.168
    Though not really graceful in life, I think that the skeleton of the Virginia Opossum is quite elegant.
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    Image source: http://www.nhc.ed.ac.uk/index.php?page=24.134.165.168
    The bandicoot has a long, tapering skull, similar to the tenrecs mentioned earlier.
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    The skull of the Thylocine (Tasmanian wolf/tiger) is extremely dog-like, one of many examples of convergent evolution in the marsupials.
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    Source of images: http://www.nhc.ed.ac.uk/index.php?page=24.134.165.168
    The kangaroos are perhaps the best known marsupials. The skull has features similar to both ruminants and rodents. The tail is thick and powerful and acts almost like a third limb at times. The legs and feet are very long, and some of the toes have fused together.
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    Related to kangaroos and koalas, the wombat has a large body with short legs, and a rather rodent-like skull.
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    Image source: http://www.nhc.ed.ac.uk/index.php?page=24.134.165.168
    The largest existing marsupial predator (unless the thylocine is not extinct, as some cryptozoologists claim), the Tasmanian devil, has a very solid, blocky skull. Look it up on Google for some better views.
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    Image source: http://www.parks.sa.gov.au/naracoort...SiteId=wonambi
    The koala has features similar to rodents as well as primates and sloths, which is understandable for a tree-living herbivore.
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    Thylacoleo (marsupial "lion"), image source: http://catbg.net/divi/index.php?sta=55&catid=6
    One of the most fascinating extinct animals, and considered by many paleontologists to be one of the most formidable mammalian predators in history, Thylacoleo was one hell of an animal. Related to kangaroos, koalas, and wombats, which are all pure herbivores, Thylacoleo has some strange features for a predator. First of all, it has large, stabbing incisors, rather than stabbing fangs. It has few cheek teeth, both these teeth are very large, and look as sharp as blades. The skull is very short and powerfully built, and the living animal probably had an exceptionally powerful bite. The limbs are long and cat-like, and the thumbs had huge scary claws. It is thought that it could stand on its hind legs and swipe away with its deadly front feet, as was also a capable climber. All in all, a damn impressive critter.
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    Diprotodon image from Wikipedia.
    Diprotodon is another neat extinct marsupial. It is closely related to wombats, but has the dimensions and some of the features (look at the snout) of a rhinoceros.
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    Thylacosmilus image from Wikipedia.
    This amazing animal is a marsupial saber-tooth from ancient South America. Note those bony growths on the lower jaw, which supported and protected the fangs when the mouth was closed. It's a feature you should think about adding when designing a saber-toothed creature, just because it looks cool.

    Monotremes
    Monotremata is the smallest and probably the strangest of all living mammal groups. The monotreme lineage diverged from all other mammals many millions of years before marsupial and placental mammals diverged from each other. Living monotremes are much more reptile-like than other mammals. They have a sprawling gait, and two shoulder bones; monotremes have a scapula, as with other animals, but also a coracoid bone, which is below and inward of the arm. They also lay eggs and secrete milk through a patch of skin, rather than a nipple, but that isn't relevant to simply studying the skeleton for some creature design inspiration. Also, all surviving monotremes have beak-like mouthparts.
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    The famous platypus is a semiaquatic animal, and like other swimming animals it has a long, streamlined body and short, broad limbs. The skull has, obviously, a long, broad, duck-like bill, and only a single tooth in each quadrant of the jaws (technically, is actually made of keratin, and not a real tooth, but what the hell). The curved scapulae are angled forward so that they are more on the neck than on the side of the ribcage. The coracoid bones can be seen between the front limbs and in front of the ribcage. The limbs have strange knobs and projections at the elbows and knees. The tail is broad.
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    Image source: http://www.echidna.org.uk/drawings01.htm
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    Image source: http://www.digimorph.org/specimens/Zaglossus_bartoni/
    The echidna, or spiny anteater, is the other type of monotreme that still exists. There is one species of short-nosed echidna (first two images), and three species of long-nosed echidna (last image). The snout is much more of a long, thin beak than the broad bill of the platypus, and the skull is similar to that of an anteater. Their stout frame and clawed limbs strengthen the similarity to other digging insect-eaters. Like the platypus, the scapulae are very far forward on the body, and the limbs are sprawled out to the side, with strange projections at the elbow and knee joints.

    And that's it for the mammals! More vertebrate skeletons to come!
    Last edited by Moai; June 4th, 2008 at 03:07 PM.

  2. #182
    realitychek's Avatar
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    Wow, that was quite the interesting and informative read! It definitely helped clear up some things for me though so thanks! One quick question though, I noticed on the sea lion skeleton, the bit of bone that looks like a ring that's hanging behind the jaws- any clue what it's for?
    I'll be finishing up and posting the final skeleton assignment tomorrow

  3. #183
    Moai's Avatar
    Moai is offline Cory Trego-Erdner
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    That little ring of bone behind the jaws is the hyoid bone. In mammals, it pretty just floats inside the neck, not attached to any other bone. The tongue and other muscles attach to the hyoid bone. In reptiles, fish, and other weird little animals, the hyoid apparatus is more complex and composed of more bones.
    I'm excited to hear about your final skeleton! I'm looking forward to seeing it. I'll be moving day after tomorrow though, so the time I can spend on this thread will be limited for the next while.

  4. #184
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    Neat!
    Well, I wasn't able to finish up the action pose of the skeleton, but I'm really close to being done with that!



  5. #185
    Moai's Avatar
    Moai is offline Cory Trego-Erdner
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    First of all, realitychek, let me apologize for being so late in this critique. I just moved from California to Oregon, so that took some time, but there was still some procrastination involved in the delay of this critique. But, enough excuses from me, let's get down to business.
    First off, let me say that this looks great. You've created a very alert and elegant creature there. Its proportions are attractive, and with an interesting surface (such as fur) and coloration, it could make a beautiful creature design. This images also show that your knowledge and understanding of the animal skeleton is good, which is what we were hoping for.

    The critique:

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    Not quite surprisingly, you seem most comfortable with the side view. That's typically the easiest view to draw of a creature. Anyway, all the individual bones in this view look fine, so there's nothing to critique there. However, in this drawing and the others, I noticed a tendency to have things slope down towards the left. The rear feet are higher than the front feet. It's a small flaw, but it hurts the illusion of the skeleton being grounded.

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    In this view, the cranium looks good, but compare the mandible in this view to the mandible on the side view. It's much thinner in this view, and has more of a curved shape. This isn't consistent with how it looks in the side view. There's also some strange asymmetry going on with the shoulder blades, and the bottoms of the feet aren't level with each other.

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    There's an inconsistency in this view of the skull as well, and that's the crest going down the middle along the top of the brain case. The other views gave this creature more of a smooth, rounded skull, without indicating the presence of a crest. Also, like I mentioned before, many things in this drawing are skewed so that they slope down to the left. This is particularly noticeable near the bottom of the pelvis.

    Despite all my criticisms, though, you really did a great job visualizing this creature's skeleton from multiple angles, which is a difficult task. I'm also really looking forward to seeing the action pose of this skeleton.

    Once again, great job!

    Edit: Don't mind the MS Paint draw-overs! I'm using a computer that doesn't have Photoshop.
    Last edited by Moai; June 23rd, 2008 at 09:07 PM.

  6. #186
    z07 is offline Registered User Level 1 Gladiator: Andabatae
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    anyone there?

    hi guys i've been following along on this thread and was just wondering if its "still alive" or if it ended?

  7. #187
    Moai's Avatar
    Moai is offline Cory Trego-Erdner
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    As far as I know, this thread is still alive. My mentees and I have been preoccupied with "real world" things recently. I just moved, for example. Once I'm settled, which should be soon, I'll see how my mentees are doing and see about getting this thread moving again.

    Edit: Also, thank you for your interest.

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    z07 is offline Registered User Level 1 Gladiator: Andabatae
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    ok, thanks for letting me know, ill keep watching

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    Yeah, Moai, could definitely say been occupied with the real world. I'm so sorry I haven't finished up the action shot of my skeleton, I should have finished it up and posted it weeks ago, and now I'll be stuck without the internet until monday. I'll post it then, probably a few others too though, I promise!!

  10. #190
    Moai's Avatar
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    Okay, mentees, it is August 1st. It's been a month and a half since there's been any activity in this thread at all. I would like everyone to chime in and tell me what their situation is, and what their plans are as far as this mentoring thread is concerned. Please.

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    Sheylore is offline Registered User Level 1 Gladiator: Andabatae
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    Just Watching...

    This thread is so interesting and I have spent the last two days reading through it all. Its too bad its dieing, and sad your not taking on more mentees. I would be a little iffy about being a mentee, as I prefer one on one guidance, but Im sure I would have still enjoyed it. Instead Ill follow along. I actually just found this site yesterday and so I have missed a lot. If you ever feel like taking another mentee, Im always here and open~

    If not, Ill just follow along on some of the things I like. Im only interested in carnivorans, canine, feline, and ermine specifically. I wouldn't bother with of the horse, cow or deer studies too much. I look forward to seeing your muscle lessons. There is a lot on skeletons, but not much on fleshing them out.

    [Edit] Im also obsessed with snakes, big lizards, dragons, and mythical creatures.
    Last edited by Sheylore; August 4th, 2008 at 10:26 AM.

  12. #192
    Asatira's Avatar
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    I'm a watcher who's been following (haven't had a chance to do the activities much). I'd like to see this thread progress through the skeletons and get a little to muscles and the surface stuff (skin, various ornaments like horns, fur, etc.).

    If open to a mentee, I'd like to be one.
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    edited post:

    .I'm not sure I have what it takes to be a mentee, but I did this anyway.

    .(if nothing else, it's good practice after too many years of tracing paper)

    .I held the book ("mammal evolution") beside the paper, blank paper next to the picture I was using as a reference point.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    ------
    Always enjoying this forum.

    Now with a sketchpad: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=134791

  14. #194
    ekobor is offline Writer... minimum art Level 1 Gladiator: Andabatae
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    Hey Moai, wonderful thread. I joined up here just so I could praise you for it.

    I've been doing the exercises since I found this, and I can't wait until you get further along!

    I'd love to be plaed on the waiting list, if it isn't too much of a bother. I really need to brush up on my art skills, as I'm mostly a writer.

    Thank you so much for doing this thread, have a great day.

  15. #195
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    I realy like this thread!
    I will train a lot now, thanks for this thread!

  16. #196
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    Assignment 1
    My name is kieran please call me it instead of Me,Myself & Me again simply because thats too long .
    I'm 17 an A-level student in fine art and have been drawing since i was 3. Love art and draw everyday because of it. I play guitar and drums, have a pet gecko and corn snake, love rock music. Hmm thats about it i think... now onto the assignment.

    I like caskins creatures because of the incredible poses so life like


    But my favorite creatures come from alex alexandrov.

    How can anyone not like those creatures

    And finally the image below is my most recent creature i did for a teen challenge about a week and a half ago. You can see why i need help.

    Thanx again moai for taking me on as a mentee.
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  17. #197
    Moai's Avatar
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    Sheylore, Asatira, Keenir, ekobor, jockeer90, and nocebo, thank you all very much for your interest in this thread. I just added a new student, and it may be a little bit before I know whether I'm going to add another one. If I do decide to add another student, I'll decide based on a combination of factors, including who asked first, the applicants' persistence, and artistic ability.
    Again, thank you for your interest and encouragement. It means a lot to me.

    Kieran- Welcome to the thread! It's good to have you on.
    I too enjoy Caskin's and Alex's creatures. Caskin in particular is a great artist to study for her use of realistic poses and anatomy. Looking at your own creature design, and the work in your sketchbook, it's clear that you have a good imagination and an interest in the animal world, which will definitely help you along here. I'm looking forward to seeing your first studies.

    BULLETIN FOR ALL MENTEES!
    Noe recently told me in a PM that she would like time guidelines and deadlines for her assignments. I'm going to give her deadlines like she asked, and I'd like to know if anyone else would like some stricter deadlines as well. If you'd like to stick to the current no-deadlines system, that's okay too. Just let me know.

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  19. #198
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    Assignment 2
    Well i decided to study the horse today, hope they look ok. Think i'll study the dog next.
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    Realy nice Me, Myself. Just notist a little problem with the horse leg to the fare left. The upper arm bone, cornected to the shoulder blade is a little short compared to the drawing just above of the leg, which does that the hoof is to long away from the center and can make the horse look like it is tilting backward.

    Just my 2 cent. Hope it helps but keep up the good work
    My Sketchbook http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=239346


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  22. #200
    Me,Myself & Me again's Avatar
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    I did'nt notice that before. Thanx nocebo that does help.
    I'll adapt that info to my next study drawings.

  23. #201
    Asatira's Avatar
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    Good to hear it's not dead. Look forward to lurking again.
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  24. #202
    Moai's Avatar
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    Kieran, that's an excellent first batch of studies. There are some errors, which of course I will address in this critique, but overall you're already showing competence in drawing the skeleton.
    Two parts of the skeleton seem to be giving you the most trouble: the skull, and the scapula. In your first page of drawings, you drew the scapula very thick, very broad, when it is actually a bit of a narrower bone on the horse. As for the skull, in your drawing of the side view of the skeleton, you drew the skull too large in proportion to the rest of the skeleton, and also made it too deep and robust. In the drawing the skull alone, the proportions are more accurate, but the jaws are still a bit too short and deep. These errors in proportion that I just described aren't terribly important, since you are still learning about the anatomy and forms of these bones even if the proportions aren't perfect. However, good observational skills are essential for the studying artist, so you should probably measure your proportions a bit more carefully all the same.
    Another thing, some of the errors in proportion that I'm seeing might simply be do to the fact that we're looking at two different references. I'm looking at Ellenberger's drawings, available here. What source are you studying from?
    Another slight problem area I'm seeing in the side view is the femur. It looks like you oversimplified a bit too much in your drawing and didn't pay enough attention to the interior forms of that bone. Just give the femur a little bit more study. Other than that, the limbs in all of your studies look great.
    In the second image, I'm glad to see that back view of the pelvis. The pelvis is a complex, weird-shaped bone, so it's good that you're studying it from multiple angles.
    For the front view, everything looks fine except for, again, the skull and scapula. The scapulae are only a bit off, nothing a bit of further study of the front view of the skeleton wouldn't fix.
    For the skull, the errors primarily have to do with perspective. The eye sockets in particular don't quite match up; the right eye socket (the horse's right, our left) is too high and seems to be angled towards us a bit too much. This can be fixed by reducing the skull into simple shapes and planes, which are easier to put into perspective. See attached image. The simple boxy shapes that I drew over your horse's skull aren't perfect, but they're much easier to draw in perspective than a detailed skull.
    You should apply this to your drawing of the horse rearing up. Simplify the shapes of all the bones and make sure those simple shapes are in correct perspective and the proportions are all correct before refining them and adding details.
    I hope this helps. Very good work, Kieran.
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    Last edited by Moai; September 28th, 2008 at 04:52 PM.

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    Thanx for the crits moai, they help alot.
    Heres the book that i've got:
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Anatomy-Draw.../dp/3833125284
    I think it is different from the book you have. Also none of those links you gave me worked. If you could pm some reference images from the book you suggested that'd be great!
    I'll get some more studies done and posted tomorrow.
    Kieran out

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    I changed the links and they should work now. Did you get a "this session has been logged out due to inactivity", or something like that? That message comes up whenever you're on that website too long without doing anything. It's kind of annoying.
    If the link still doesn't work, tell me.
    I'm not familiar with that book you have.

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    Yeah i did get "this session has been logged out due to inactivity" every time i clicked on the links.
    Its a great book bit expensive but worth it. It has other animals other than the horse, lion, dog and the cat. It also has the pig, camel, chimpanzee, sheep, bear, deer and cow.
    I'll have to see if i can get some money to buy that Ellenberger book you mentioned.
    Also if you don't mind me asking where's the rest of the mentee's?

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    I don't think it'd be necessary for you to buy Ellenberger's book. Try the links I posted again. If they don't work, I also posted a link on page two of this thread. If the links work, and they should, you'll be taken to a gallery of every image in Ellenberger's book. The only thing missing is the key of the names of the bones and muscles. With those images online, and your own book, which seems to be pretty good, I don't think you'll need to buy Ellenberger's book.
    As for the other mentees, I'm in contact with Noe and realitychek via PMs, and I don't know what's going on with Micaiah Nelson. He seems to have disappeared without a trace. You should see some activity from the others in the next week.

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    hi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moai View Post
    Sheylore, Asatira, Keenir, ekobor, jockeer90, and nocebo, thank you all very much for your interest in this thread. I just added a new student, and it may be a little bit before I know whether I'm going to add another one. If I do decide to add another student, I'll decide based on a combination of factors, including who asked first, the applicants' persistence, and artistic ability.
    makes perfect sense.

    I posted my skulls because I was trying to follow along with (and was inspired by) this thread, and wished for you to know.

    Again, thank you for your interest and encouragement. It means a lot to me.
    it means as much (if not more) to me that you replied. thank you.
    ------
    Always enjoying this forum.

    Now with a sketchpad: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=134791

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    Welcome aboard Me, Myself!
    Cory, I'll be posting tomorrow, but I would love deadlines for upcoming assignments

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    Thanx realitychek and heya to you too.
    I took note of the huge paragraphic comments you gave me moai (and the links work now) and studied the dog today only got a page done today, well thats cus its a schwool dway todway Hope there ok? I think i did the wrong things right.
    Oh yeah the hind leg i did as a real quick sketch instead of a full blown detailed one. ^.^
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