Hi. I'm bizarre, fresh meat around here. got a question.

[bizarre]

I've noticed that there are 3 basic approaches to art. Not approaches, but means of... um... coming across art.

Talent- Innate ability to draw stuff, basically a naturally good observation skill combined with good hand-eye coordination. I'm not saying talent as in genius, just talent as in raw, natural ability. not better than average, necessarily.

Student- This is the kind that bothers me the most... It stifles creativity, they don't want you to have your own style when they're teaching you techniques and such. This is stuff like study portraits, or studies. or technique mastery sketches/drawings. hold the pencil this way not that way, blah blah blah.

Fanboy/Occupational Therepy/ Trying to Get Laid/ Tattoo Artist Wannabe- Not a genuine desire to create or learn better ways to transfer the battery-acid sparks in your wad of chewed bubblegum brain onto a sheet of pulverised murdered virgin trees. I hope you know what i mean. I see to much of this stuff like drawing skulls and crossbones and dragons and shitty roses and suits of cards and those stupid diamond S's and all of that. It's not drawing to draw something, or drawing to learn something, it's just drawing to show off, or keep your hand busy so it doesn't wander to the crotch or seat of your jeans, depending on what the hell you do with yourself. It's good to see people making art for fun instead of eating themselves to death, burning out their eyeballs on the boob tube, blistering their thumbs and 12 yr old pricks to the huge-breasted lara crotch's on the Playstation, or fighting with someone or something, because creativity is the most productive form of idle activity there is, besides procreation, copulation, fornication, maybe i could keep this rhyming business to a minimum...

Well anyways, How would you describe your least favorite art style, don't mention any names or pieces, but just talk about what irks you. go ahead. let youself share. but don't come here to hug other people or to come take the free coffee. ok?

Whatever... just trying to get a feel for what people are like here, I hope you're not ALL a bunch of kids who get discouraged because your friend or girlfriend or whatever dumps you or you see some other artist who's better than you... pathetic. Russian prverb, don't quote me on this "In order to improve your game, always play against someone better than you." which i see as surround yourself with people who are more motivated or talented than you are, they'll be a good influence. yeah. :chug:

[mtomczek]

I agree with Jens. What irks me is people like you. Go away

[bizarre]

everyone's entitled to an opinion, even me. It's just my opinion, that's the only way i can categorise it, it's not something i can categorise in my head but just for a frame of reference it's easier for me to see art (drawing and painting and digital painting, not all art. just mediums involving pushing pigments onto a surface) in a categorised nature like techniques, color, blah blah. and if you hate me that's fine, i wasn't planning on making friends here. you hate me? i hate you too. i don't make sense, i'm not trying to, i'm trying to talk through the itips of my fingers. it's sort of difficult, because this... stasis-chatroom environment makes every statement and response seem carved into stone, so if i change my mind about something five minutes after i wrote it, or if i realise that whet i've just said is complete bullshit, it can't immediately say "oh damn. what i mean is... " and correct myslf.

I apologise for stepping on toes. sorry if i scuffed your gucci's. i almost forgot that you're all better than me. :confused:

maybe a better topic to talk about is what's your favorite movie? or maybe.... ooh i know, what music inspires you? oh, right. that's in other threads. See, those threads survive because the topic started allows you to post your own opinions, and you love to do that. you loooove talking about yourself, to shed a little light on yourself and your insight into life. or not. but as soon as someone else introduces a new idea, or disagrees with someone else, which i'm doing right now and i apologise, it turns into an all-out flame war.

So maybe i should keep my head down and just mention movie titles and song titles to tell you about myself rather than my ideas. after all, the clothes i wear, the car i drive, the food i eat, the music i listen to and the movies i watch define who i am. right? so i hate you. but because you're a sheep, i'd have sex with you. so i don't hate you. i just hope they castrate you the next time you're getting sheared.

I don't know, it's just me, maybe i'm wrong. take it or leave it.

[MrSmith]

i really hate that britney spears. avril lavigne is sooooooooo much more artistic.

oh btw. i draw purty pictures cuz sometimes it gets me laid. i think i am category 3.


anime sucks too

[N D Hill]

Wow! you're off to a great start! You were rightfully accused of generalizing free expression and than you accuse US of being sheep. hate whatever the hell you want. You probably hate stuff I like and I probably hate stuff you like. I honestly don't give a shit and won't waste my time delivering poorly concieved rants that never stand a chance of changing anyone's mind anyway. Let tallented people use their tallent. let students learn new techniques and methods. Let the fanboys draw something that inspires them. Let the critics rant away...and be ignored.

[amphex]

...
avril??
....
i mean..cmon..shes good and all..but have you seen that new chick?
the one with the mole?
shes on TRL all the time
i forget how the song goes
and i forget her name
but shes awesome

ROCK!

[thomasaurus]

STOP DRAWIN ANIME AND INCEST FURRIYS THEY PIS ME OFF SO MUHC. I HATE PPL AND I WANT TO COMPLAIN ABOUTHOW MY ART ISNT APPEALING.

lets close this thread, the flame war will begin soon...

[stalecracker]

WOW. you just showed up and pissed in some cornflakes this morning, eh? The problem most of the people have with the attitude ou portray is that it is, quite obviously, born out of ignorance. How so-

*ahem*

I fall into all of your categories..

1) I was born with a desire to draw... sucked until later in life and ALWAYS find the last thing I did sucked and want to keep learning because of it...

2) Well CRAP... The desire to learn makes me, by default, a student of the artform... The day you, yes YOU, fart out that " It stifles creativity, they don't want you to have your own style when they're teaching you techniques and such. This is stuff like study portraits, or studies. or technique mastery sketches/drawings. hold the pencil this way not that way, blah blah blah." you fell into the realm of the snot-nosed, egotistical "I don't need to be taught" room. No, a teacher/school is not necesarry but, remember, being self-taught STILL involves learning from someone other than yourself. Your own style is secondary to the foundation knowledge. To many Noobs (and Pro's) fret and worry about their "Style" . A kick ass building can be designed but if it doesn't foloow architectural prinicipals and physics... it ain't gonna be more than a purty drawin. Same goes for art... you can SAY the sausage is an arm, it may be great looking sausage but it a crappy looking arm...

3) There's 3 primordial reasons that art is created (In my opinion) To express the soul (most important) and to get paid and get laid ( in descending order of importance) If I didn't have art a an outlet I'd wear what little dick I've got off outletting myself silly.


All in all, Exo had it right... you're entitled to your opinion EVERY bit as much as we are to say "You don't know much about what you are speaking about, do you?" I get the feeling you are new to the art game.

If you're not PLEASE, by all means, prove us wrong.

While you're at it... why do YOU "do" art?

[stephen]

welcome to conceptart.org bizarre :(
Its too bad that some jackass finds it necessary to insult you for voicing your own opinion and couldnt handle it in a mature fashion and debate or give his/her own opinion without the insults.

I think as a student you dont simply do what your teacher says is the right and wrong, you incorporate what you learned from them into your own work. Build off already known approaches/solutions. And i do think teachers want you to have your own unique style, but for the sake of learning, i think you SHOULD study from old masters/your teacher/ whatever, you'll only get better and better, evolving your style into something you'd never expect. thats whats fun about it :) or not, whatever i'll end it there. i dont know if that even made sense. aawrg!

[Fozzybar]

This thread reminds me of killing.people's first day here :p

[I.was.ink]

And stale hits him with a come back!

[thomasaurus]

why what happened? Trying to change a touchy subject

[WildSpruceMoose]

Classifying things into 3 categories. I see many many many many categories of art left out. There aren't even any mixing of these categories.

[thomasaurus]

Art is Art. Dont try to catagorize it.

[bizarre]

sorry folks.

This is the first time i've ever used one of these bulletin board things, so.... I didn't know what to say, the thought came to my mind, i could have easily just said hi my name is bizarre, i'm new here, blah blah blah, here's some of my art, sorry about teh tripod site not working, blah blah blah, i mostly work with blah blah and blah, oh and i knew Doug Hoch and blah blah,

Ill concieved, yeah. I guess my little rant about having sex with sheep and stuff wasn't a really good idea. I've got a lot to learn around here.

3 categories? hmmph. right.

If you look at it the way i do, it'd make sense to you, i swear. I didn't mean it to come out like that. really. and then, when people (i guess) misinterpreted the comment, or maybe reacted differently then i naively assumed they would, well then i got upset and had a tantrum like a little kid. (which was the smart thing to do in this situation.... right.)

I don't know what i meant, i don't know what my point is, it's nice to meet you folks, and i'm glad the people here are passionate about art.

Wait. now that i think of it, maybe this is what i meant to say...

People, in my opinion, discover art in a lot of ways, but there are 3 ways that i've observed, and candidly put them into 3 indivicually sealed environemntally safe 100% wool (just a joke) packages. Here goes.

1. Talent- people who draw just for fun, and then find out that their natural ability is slightly better than most people. but they don't know, or haven't been taught about art history, or the established (i won't say proper) way to render things, color schemes, all the stuff they teach you in schools. These people usually have an advanced sense of spatial geometry, and really good observation skills. These people sometimes go on to schooling, and then hone their skills to become great graphic artists. oops... too specific. great artists. This could actually be anyone, because anyone could think that their art is better than everyone else's, it's simply an ego thing sometimes. but then there are others who discover that their artistic ability is more developed than most.

no, neverrmind, it doesn't make sense to me at all. You don't get it? neither do i. hehe.

You're all right, i could have just as easily said hi and waved and baked cookies for my new neighbors.... but i didn't. sorry if my distorted view and poorly attempted rationalisation ruffled feathers here and there.

it's nice to meet you people. thanks for... well, thanks for kicking my ass and putting me in my place. now i know better.

no, that last bit is even cornier than the rest of the message. listen. if i keep going on and on like this, i'll just keep digging this hole.... so i shut up now.

EDIT: and yeah, i'm new to the whole art scene. I've been doing music for five years, but i just recently, like within the last two years, started doing art. not very often, just every month and a half or so i'd sit down and paint something (oh yeah, baby... dedication...) stupid. I've got ADHD, and i can't spend more than five seconds (exaggeration) on anything that doesn't show a lot of progress in that time. I'm working on that.

I started doing art as occupational therepy, and here's a little bit of background info to try to explain. I was born and raised in korea (father had a business thing. company moved or whatever. i'm mostly german and ... mutt-ish) and then i moved to mass. in the us. grew up here. discovered racism was even worse here than in korea. heh. that's an understatement. no wait. the rest of the stuff just tells about all the suspensions, arrests and expulsions i've gone through in my middle and highschool days.... skip a little... and then here. i was told by a... therapist? not a doctor or anything. but just some lady said my art stuff is pretty good. i said really? she said yes. you should pursue it. ok. So i went on, blew a few hundred bucks on sketchbooks, notebooks, paper, ink, markers, and whatever else i could get. i was compulsive. that's an understatement. I started getting better at it. i'd never had lessons, aside from kindergarten and elementry school. Sixth grade, i had some art class, but i wasn't there most of the time. long story. the only classes i've taken were figure drawing classes, and that was last year. so now i'm going to these boards to learn for free. there's no need to buy books or other things, and if i have any questions, all i have to do is ask.

So please forgive my first-day-with-my-screenname idiocy. I never meant any harm. honestly. I know i don't make sense. ESL! ESL! (English as a Second Language) no, not really, that's a copout. i've been speaking english since 1994, so that's... that's a long time. lost the accent and stuff...
But i still don't make sense.

[Kortez]

Originally posted by bizarre
Student- This is the kind that bothers me the most... It stifles creativity, they don't want you to have your own style when they're teaching you techniques and such. This is stuff like study portraits, or studies. or technique mastery sketches/drawings. hold the pencil this way not that way, blah blah blah.

What?!
This is one of THE most stupid things I have heard in my life. You are basicly saying if you don't have that "raw, natural ability" should just forget about art. Go sell used cars or something... or what is it that you are implying, please tell me.

You say that learning stifles creativity?
But you don't talk about the "raw natural creative mind" you talk about the ability to draw stuff. I just don't get you. You applaud people who can draw well. But when someone wants to learn how to draw well, they shouldn't cause it stifles creativity. There is nothing more disgusting than people trying to express themselves in a creative manner without the ability to do so. Creativity only gets you so far.

To be honest, I 'm a "Student approach" guy. I've loved drawing since I was a toddler. But to tell you the truth there's not too much "raw, natural talent" in me, or at least not that I've discovered yet. So my solution was basically, hard work and learn the basic techniques. But this "bothers you".. why on earth? I'm doing what I love, but because I wasn't born with some supposed "raw, natural talent" when I reach the level of someone who was born with this talent, I still won't be good enough cause now I have a stifled creativity, something that the other guy doesn't need, cause he was born with the ability to draw (but now we draw at the same level). I'm just going in circles, cause it was an exceptionally badly written first post by you, it made very little sense at all.


This is probably the worst post I've seen in here, and probably my worst reply. But I'm leaving you with one final thought.

Dictionary: Creativity - The power to create. How can I create a drawing if I have never learned to draw ?

p.s. to be honest, I kinda get what you were aiming for, but it's a badly written post. You're expressing yourself without the ability to do so. Maybe you weren't just born with that "raw, natural ability" to write ;)

p.p.s. I'm not really angry, this has been one of the most exciting replies I've written here. But I do feel that you should think before you post. (Not meant in a particularly bad way)

So, put your artwork where your mouth is and shut me up :)


:chug:

EDIT: I just saw that you replied just ahead of me.. and I hadn't read your newest post when I replied. I'll check this out tomorrow, I'm tired :)

[tyboogie]

http://www.funktion-studios.com/tyler/puppy.jpg

[thomasaurus]

look, you got tyboogie's puppy confused!

[stalecracker]

Cool, what was we arguin' aboot?

So start posting some work. *snap, snap*

[bizarre]

will post work as soon as i can scan and put it up on the website. over the next few days i'll be working on getting stuff up. thanks for... uh... easing up on me.

[darkcult]

tyboogie:
http://www.funktion-studios.com/tyler/puppy.jpg

[mcotie]

I love this.

comes in; never posted before, never scanned before, takes a look at a few pieces of artwork comes up with a theory, posts his theory, gets ball-slapped for it, appologizes, leaves with a promise; and all of this (did I mention), without posting artwork.

[stalecracker]

BALL-SLAPPED?!?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH...

DAMMIT, Mitch... Almost shot Diet Coke outta my nose.That was a good one.

[Behemoth]

my suggestion - relax. enjoy yourself. save your controversial rants for a drunken night when you've had an argument with your girlfriend.

Now show us your art.

[thomasaurus]

haha mcotie seems to have a good teabagging idea of what just happened.

[bizarre]

ok, you'fe ball-slapped me enough... here's my site. i don't know if it'll work, i tried that change the filenames to .txt instead of .jpg, didn't work, coudln't get it to load in the editor, and all the color images, which are .bmp's, wouldn't show up in the editor so i couldn't put them on the site. that sucks, because that's the only work i have that's sort of half decent.

so if anyone has any ideas/suggestions to offer, like maybe a better web page editor or something, or a trick to getting the images to work all the time instead of breaking every time the bandwidth limit is reached, please... share.

no, don't click on the link... it wont work

[stalecracker]

Register your domain with doteasy.com. It's 25.00 to register your domain name and they host it for a year. A great deal, in my opinion! I've been with'm for a year and a half.










*ball-slapped* heheh.... funny stuff.

[bizarre]

i was sort of thinking about going with fourbucks.net, or whatever it's called, but then $25 a year sounds a lot better than $48 a year. anyways, did the link work for you?

[stalecracker]

Your link? No... It said


The web site you are trying to access has exceeded its allocated data transfer. Visit our help area for more information.

[Erik]

Bizarre, here's a tip:

Don't get into an argument with stalecracker. He is REALLY good at them and usually wins. And deservedly so. Certainly in this case. ;-)

Scan some stuff and leave the theory to bald older people that have modern art shops.

Looking forward to scans!
ut this is better than introducing with 'hey i traced this transformer picture from the cornflakes box while watching the weather channel this morning' lol

[bizarre]

below

[I.was.ink]

Can't see your pics man. Why dont you try deviantart.com

They're free, not bandwidth size of any kind, and yes, its taking advantage of them, but they dont seem to mind.

I wonder why that is?

[bizarre]

http://carbombjack.deviantart.com/

[darkcult]

Oh no I.was.ink you’ve created a monster!!!
..............................................
He he only kidding...:angel:

[bizarre]

http://carbombjack.deviantart.com/

[bizarre]

so, am i ok here? am i, uh... up to par for a newbie?

[newman]

serial killer art!

seriously though, i find all the john wayne gacy stuff a bit cliched... that one of the pigs is sweet tho, really interesting concept.

[Zakarian]

i get the feeling from your art, that you have a lot of anger in yourself...but nontheless, you are doing quite well for starters:) i am still gonna have to say this, but practice is the key to getting better. never stop practicing. buy anatomy books, color theory books, stuff that you think will help you. do life drawings. at this stage you have to get basics right. then as you practice, and practice, your style will take shape.
it might take a while though, but never give up.

unlike you i have only just started to do art last year, but i keep practicing and trying to push the standard of each artwork higher and higher. damn! i just realized i have not been doing enough studies!!! crap! gotta get back to work now...

[thomasaurus]

I.was.ink: I wouldnt suggest that. You may think that DA doesnt try to crack down on hotlinkers, but I did, and got banned for it.

[bizarre]

i didn't know that, well i suspected it but didn't expect it... well i hope this lasts for a while, long enough till i find something better.

These all took less than 20 minutes, except that one with the crucifiction stuff on it. that's from 1999, took over 8 hrs, with mgi or msi photosuite.... which is an absolutly horrible horrible program, by the way....

the rest are from the last year.

i took an anime/manga class, because my folks decided occupational therepy was good, so they stuck me in a 12 and up, meaning some 11.5 year olds and a 13 year old were my class mate... and the teacher was teaching straight out of a book.. like, teaching as it's writen in a book, like one of those teach yourself things? charged $30 for lessons, when you probably could have bought the book for ten bucks.

then, i got introduced to Doug Hoche. or Hoch. He does illustrations for Sports Illustrated... so he's sorta famous. i tooka figure drawing class, and then, i learned first hand that yes, it is in fact tremendously easier to draw nude males than it is to draw nude famales. it's a fact. wheter you're a guy or a girl, it's easier to draw a guy. it's because there a re a lot more, uh... landmarks? like, creases, more defined muscle.. usually, basically more features to form a relationship to one another. with females, it's all about contour, and if you don't get it perfect, it looks like absolute crap. and my female sketches all do. well, they're light lines with dark lines over them, erased and redone, over and over.. i think the best one i did was the one i took a little brush and a bottle of indian ink and smeared it on with my left hand. then, i sorta did that thing from Se7en, you know? where he writes "help me" with his fingerprints? anyways. the shittiest and quickest ones always turned out the best for me, so i stuck with that. which is why i'm a very strong advocate of the theory that anything that takes longer than ten minutes to finish, or to start to show signs of development, is a waste of time. it could also be my ADHD, who knows.

I'd like to say i'm better than average, because that would make me feel good about myself.... but i'd probably be lying. who cares. i'm not gonna hide behind a mask of inexperience, because you never get over your own personal quirks. there's always going to be that one flaw, that one mistake you always make. well, at least if you always draw in the same style and stuff... but then again repetition doesn't fix mistakes, i guess.

thanks for your time, and thanks to all those who talked about me getting ball slapped, made fun of my ill-concieved notions, posted pictures of puppies and belittled me right off the bat. i hope to someday stomp you into the ground. I guess that's a compliment, i guess i'm trying to say that you've motivated me to surpass you... Which, in a sense, is what we're all hoping to see from everyone, right? I mean it's always good to see the El Coro fanboy's turn into the El Coro 2 or whatever.

but enough about me, let's talk about my art... or not, i guess these are a poor representation of my actaul ability, i mean, these are all just fifteen minute tops sketches, really, so that means... um... if these suck, well then imagine how bad they are after 3 or more hours of noodling. Suck-O-Rama. but you always get better by making mistakes, am i right?


:bootyshak

[steve kim]

holy crap you got issues

drop the self effacing yet simultaneously ego-stroking banter and just um, talk normal ok.

let your artwork speak for itself. we don't necessarily need (or want) the story of your life to be attached to every image.

in summary, draw more talk less.

cheers,
steve

[incognito]

haha, i just read your posts as if you were really cracked out on caffiene and had a twitch in your eye and too much energy. Sounded kinda cool. but yeah, talk less draw more.

[bizarre]

i had a shitload of sketches on the previous page, but i found i out i can't link images to other sites.

http://carbombjack.deviantart.com/

less talk more drawing