Concept Art?

[Angroc]

Hello. As you may see from my post count, I am quite new here.

Originally, I found this site through a normal google search; and what I searched for was concept art. Conceptart.org! Awesomeness prevails! A site dedicated to one of my greatest passions.

I had the kind of images you find for productions in mind. Art where's theres a conept in mind; either characters, landscape, costumes, or any kind of idea being "picturized"(with a lack of a better word:/ ). Anything that involves a design that is visual. That is, really, how I have always regarded concept art; the idea of communicating with profound meanings, giving away political opinions, or making the viewers do intricate interpretations , is not the meaning at all here, its not important. Neither is a study of the human body or still life, or a painting that doesnt seem have a specific design in mind. That wouldnt be concept art, but... um... artsy art and study art. And thats the reason I typed those words into google; I like the visual designing aspect of it. I have never cared that much for interpretations and that stuff.

However, I have seen alot of work around here that, in my opinion, cant be classified as concept art. I have seen images that obviously has the sole purpose of being artsy with profound meanings; images where people utilize crazy techniques and brushes. For example a picture of two dancing figures, but where you really cant define the details on the figures; so theres no costume design involved. Just really really crazy brushes made in PS that together forms this shape. That would be a typical scenario ragarding the theme of this post. When things get to artsy, and you end up with an image where there's no visual designed ideas. No costume, no character, no landscape etc etc. Another one is the kind of images is where you stay 100% true about reality; a still life or the study of a human body. Where concept design in that? I dont really want to make examples from the forums, and hanging out people in my post, but personally, I have seen alot on artsy art and study art that I personally wouldnt see as concept art.

I hope you get what I am getting at here (never been good with words :/ )

Now, I am not sitting on my high throne here, and saying I am an allknower. Cause I aint, and I truly stand humble in this regard; for all I know, I may have been getting this concept art idea aaalll wrong.:^^;: After all, the reason I am making this topic is because I havent seen anyone else complain or make remark about what I am saying here. I made this topic just to say my opinion; something that has been concerning me, so that I may be corrected, or maybe cause a debate.

[Seedling]

The answer to your question is that "concept art" is a subset of "illustration", which is a subset of "art". One has to develop a certain proficiency at "art" and "illustration" in order to become a decent concept artist. Since this place is about learning and growing, there is no way that the non-concept-art stuff can be left out. It is vital.

[mike yamada]

My apologizes to the original poster for deviating from the topic.


The answer to your question is that "concept art" is a subset of "illustration", which is a subset of "art".

I would have to slightly disagree with that statement. I've seen you bring it up before and I would like to clear things up. Much of concept art has connections to illustration, however there is another part of the tradition that has ties to design - industrial design, architecture, set design, theater, etc. I think a more accurate statement would be to say that concept art is the intersection of illustration and design. However that still isn't entire correct as there are concept artists that do work that is mostly illustrative and those that do work that is design oriented.

[Qitsune]

Distant skies, there are illustrators here, and there are fine artists, and animators and sculptors. Not just concept artists. Which is why there's a section entirely dedicated to self portrait and one dedicated to master copies. Because you can do many processes to learn art. Heck, Android is a concept artist and he does abstracts airbrush bodypaints and he did a thousand self portraits. You can't take the name of the site as gospel.

Also, there is more to concept art than costume and vehicle design. There is also mood painting and those can be quite loose and artsy.

[Angroc]

yes ok. I see where you guys are getting at. and of course I agree that to do nice concept art, you need to know your art theory, anatomy, portraiting, and all that shenanigan; but then again, the name of the site is conceptart, yet, what I have concieved as the main part of site; "its finaly finished" has a lot of still life studies and fine art, which I personally think is kinda misleading to some. and personally, I think concept art, and fine art and all kind of studies should have their respective places in that regard, with the concept section placed on top. but then, that isnt a discussion for this part of the forum. anyways, thanks for responding, and I hope you guys havent concieved me as a whiny bastard ;-)

[chaosrocks]

"concept art" is the communication of an idea or "concept" the concept can be something as concrete as character or costume design.... But it can also be a nebulous construct like an emotion or a situation.... what we are all working on including those things you deem "Artsy" is visually comunicating an idea. Thus "concept" Art

chaos

[Elwell]

and I hope you guys havent concieved me as a whiny bastard ;-)
Too late.

[fionkell]

I don't want to sound blunt or abrupt here, but does it really matter? Really?

If someone solely drew concept art all the time, without any studies, fun scribbles, experimentation, happy accidents, rough sketches and so on, I imagine it would get pretty bloody boring. Plus, looking through some movie art books I have, a lot of the concept art is not polished and refined. It's rough, blocky, gritty, and sketchy, but it's still concept art.

This site gets me drawing. In fact, it has gotten me drawing regularly and I have improved (albeit slowly). And it has done it for many, many other people as well. The fact that its main focus is concept art is a nice perk, but it's not the sole purpose I come here. I'm here to learn, to interact, not only to observe.


...BLAH BLAH BLAH I think I'll go get a cup of tea.

[Ilaekae]

I only come here for the fuckin' free sausage rolls...didn't even know it was called ConceptArt the first year...

[Seedling]

I would have to slightly disagree with that statement. I've seen you bring it up before and I would like to clear things up. Much of concept art has connections to illustration, however there is another part of the tradition that has ties to design - industrial design, architecture, set design, theater, etc. I think a more accurate statement would be to say that concept art is the intersection of illustration and design. However that still isn't entire correct as there are concept artists that do work that is mostly illustrative and those that do work that is design oriented.

Well, then I challenge you to explain where illustration stops, and industrial design, architecture, set design, theater, etc. begin. Couldn't it be said that illustration is an essential part of those things? That's how I see it.

Also, if you can supply a definition of "design" that everyone agrees upon, I'll mail you a batch of homade cookies.

[J.Mac]

Distant skies i don't see you as whinny, but more or less just unsatisfied with the answers you have been getting, b/c they are still unclear. They all have good points but then they are all still opinions. Since you brought this up i have become curious as well.

In my opinion concept art is the combination between design & illustration, but i feel that what matters at the end is if you get across what ever you are trying to show; design, emotions, mood... etc..

___________

these are some things that i have found, and i not saying these are 100% either just some information on what conceptual art.

conceptual art
n. Art that is intended to convey an idea or concept to the perceiver and need not involve the creation or appreciation of a traditional art object such as a painting or sculpture.
source (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=conceptual%20art)

Conceptual art, sometimes called idea art, is art in which the concept(s) or idea(s) involved in the work take precedence over traditional aesthetic and material concerns. In some cases, Conceptual art may not entail any art object per se, but instead manifest solely as documentary evidence for an "art idea". In other, less extreme cases, Conceptual art may involve the construction of images and objects in a manner that frees the artist from their traditional role as a maker of aesthetic decisions. To give an example, many of the works of the artist Sol Lewitt may be constructed by anyone simply by following a set of written instructions. This method was fundamental to Lewitt's definition of Conceptual art, the first to appear in print:
source (http://www.reference.com/search?q=conceptual%20art)

[Seedling]

J.Mac – “conceptual art” is something very different from “concept art”.

[max xiantu]

Design is purpose. Whether it be for the purpose of building a utility or character or turning the viewer's eyes around the page/building/website/clothing etc, or directing the audience to become a participant in the experience of emotion.
et cetera et al.

Cookies, Seedling!
You still owe me a beer! :teeth:

[J.Mac]

Seedling

J.Mac – “conceptual art” is something very different from “concept art”.

agreed i didn't mean to write concept art when i placed those definitions and links, i don't mean to confuse the two. I am just rather busy at the moment with work and i apologize for the typo/miss communication. and i have edited that. Thank you.

also here is the "all knowing wiki" opinion on this subject of concept art.


Concept art is a form of illustration where the main goal is to convey a visual representation of a design, idea, and/or mood for use in movies, video games, or comic books before it is put into the final product. This is a relatively new designation popularized by artists working in the automobile and video games industries. This term has been in use since the 1930's by the traditional animation industry who was describing drawn or painted images which illustrate the look, feel, design, colors, etc...of the animated movie to be made. Concept art is also referred to as "visual development" in traditional animation. The term was later adopted by the games industry. These illustrations became necessary for developed visual properties.

Concept art is the preliminary visual statement made in entertainment production. Before characters, worlds, or items are created, images are made to show what these things should look like, often based on a writers description. Concept Art is the illustrated visualization of ideas.

Usually, many artists or animators gain better ideas by studying still models through the means of photography. This is how particular objects, such as the elven blades in the The Lord of the Rings (which look like leaves), are created.
source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concept_art)

i hope this helps you distant skies to come to a conclusion about whether or not this forum is full filling your needs. I think you just need to be more open to what is going on and not be so judgmental about what you think things should be like.

-j.mac

[Angroc]

Hmmm, ok. But I agree, a concept artist need to do things that arent concept art at all; yet, the site shows no indigation of seperating what is concept art and what isnt. And yes, the definitoin is hard to agree upon, but shouldnt the site owners come to its own agreements on that? And even though my personal definition of concept art has been significantly widened, I still have a hard time seeing things such as still life studies, anatomical studies and studies in general as concept art.


I don't want to sound blunt or abrupt here, but does it really matter? Really?

It isnt a matter of life or death, nor om I complaining about it. I am just asking a question here, maybe cause a little discussion. I was just curious as to how the other members of this site was viewing this very issue.

Anyway, thanks again for not making this a dead topic and posting constructive posts. :)

[BlackGuy]

jesus, talk about arguing semantics.

[Hai]

I still have a hard time seeing things such as still life studies, anatomical studies and studies in general as concept art.

So basically, you're looking for the concept art equivalent of Elfwood? A place where only finished pieces can be submitted, and getting better through process and helping people get better by guiding them through process is not allowed? 'Cause it sounds that way to me.

[Seedling]

Design is purpose. Whether it be for the purpose of building a utility or character or turning the viewer's eyes around the page/building/website/clothing etc, or directing the audience to become a participant in the experience of emotion.
et cetera et al.

Cookies, Seedling!
You still owe me a beer! :teeth:

Except that the games industry uses an entirely different definition of “design”. Around here, it refers to the invention and implementation of game mechanics and story. It is an entirely different thing from the game visuals. Sorry, no cookies this time. :-) But here’s your beer!

<beer>Tasty microbrewery beer for Max!</beer>


the site shows no indigation of seperating what is concept art and what isnt. And yes, the definitoin is hard to agree upon, but shouldnt the site owners come to its own agreements on that?

Those of us who have been around the art block know from experience that putting hard definitions on art is a venture that only results in nasty pointless fighting. But if you’re new to the whole challenge, go on and start a thread with the purpose of defining concept art. If in twenty years, you and whomever joins the debate reaches a conclusion that can separate concept art from non-concept art and also not piss anyone off, then you will have something useful to offer as a solution.

[Angroc]

Those of us who have been around the art block know from experience that putting hard definitions on art is a venture that only results in nasty pointless fighting.

Well, I can admit I havent involved with art discussions such as these for very long, as its just recently I have made an attempt at loosing myself of my lurking status. Anyway, I do have alot of friends IRL that are interested in music, and from that perspective and COUNTLESS hours of discussing genre-definition, I truly understand your argument. However, during my limitied studies of art history (no major excactly, but I know the general stuff) and music discussion, I must say that to a certain extenct, 'loose' genres can quite well be agreed upon. Wouldnt you agree that studies, studies for the pure purpose of learning figuredrawing and colour, and art that isnt studies can be seperated without too much knifing? You could also seperate digital and real medium, just like they do on music sites, but thats a wee bit picky hehe. :P

So to just stop this from being an eternal circle of pointless discussion, it seems to me it have kinda came to a halt.

[entdroid]

And what about mixed media? A lot of people work mixing different tools, mixing traditional and digital... Or what about very heavily referenced art? Every definition has its gray areas and most of the times ends up being more restrictive that helpful.

[Seedling]

Well, I can admit I havent involved with art discussions such as these for very long, as its just recently I have made an attempt at loosing myself of my lurking status. Anyway, I do have alot of friends IRL that are interested in music, and from that perspective and COUNTLESS hours of discussing genre-definition, I truly understand your argument. However, during my limitied studies of art history (no major excactly, but I know the general stuff) and music discussion, I must say that to a certain extenct, 'loose' genres can quite well be agreed upon. Wouldnt you agree that studies, studies for the pure purpose of learning figuredrawing and colour, and art that isnt studies can be seperated without too much knifing? You could also seperate digital and real medium, just like they do on music sites, but thats a wee bit picky hehe. :P

So to just stop this from being an eternal circle of pointless discussion, it seems to me it have kinda came to a halt.

Take a look at my portfolio and then think about about what my answer just might be when asked if I will help to filter out the non-concept-art from this place.

No, no, and furthermore no. Other folks here have set the rules, and those rules let me play and teach here, with my 99.9% non-concept art. You go right on and have fun defining things until the cows come home. I have better things to do with my time.

[mike yamada]

I rarely have either the desire or the time to put my thoughts into words, but in this case, I felt it important and educational. To preface this conversation, I should briefly mention my education and background as that will help explain my advocation of design. In college I studied Industrial Design, more specifically Product Design. It could be consider one of the most under appreciated fields in applied arts. When you have done your job right, what you designed should be used transparently and enhance the user's experience(or at least as I was taught). Towards the end of my studies at university, I focused my studies more on entertainment design and was lucky enough to enter the field after I graduated. Since then I have worked as a designer and continued to contemplate the nuances of it.

For this argument, I will lump the things I listed as Design(industrial design, architecture, set design, etc) into what I(and some reference books) will refer to as Applied Arts. To begin you state that illustration is an essential part of the disciplines of Applied Art. I will take an example that is close to my experience and refer to Product Design. Product Design follows a strict methodology to solve a series of design problems - ergonomics, practicality of manufacture, consumer needs and wants, lifestyle, etc. One method of doing this involves iterations of study models(progressively tighter until a final cg solid model is constructed) and there is an absence of drawing throughout the whole process. Unless you consider rough model making a form of illustration, then perhaps we are on the same page, but frankly I believe your view to be narrow and uninformed. We can continue this further down this road and talk about intent. Illustration as has been explained to me previously is about picture-making, narrative and story-telling. They create an image that visually conveys meaning. Whereas design is about problem solving and process. Finished products are usually something tangible and sketches or drawings9if they are part of the process) are never seen by those that see the finished product.

To be honest, the disciplines of Design and Illustration are both essential to the process of entertainment design. Where one leaves off, the other fills in. And finally to address the concerns of the original poster, I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but not much of that is likely to change. This forum skews towards being both highly figurative and the illustration end of the spectrum. I assume that is because the rights to production art is usually held by the companies they are produced for, people that do this sort of work at their day job might not want to do the same thing at home to relax and that many young artists interested in the field are not sure of all the possible types of artwork are both generated and need for production purposes. In the past there was another forum which focus more on the production and design end of things, however that one is no longer active.

I would love to go on and on about design, it's history and traditions compared that to illustration, but I assumed that sort of historical stuff would bore everyone.

[Seedling]

Mike - Out of curiosity, when you do these iterative models, what comes before that? Surely you have to get approval from someone higher-up in the company for the budget. What do you show that person to communicate to them what you are planning to do with the money?

[edit] It occurs to me that you and I might be using different definitions of illustration. The definition that I use is this: Illustration is the use of images to communicate ideas.

By “images” I do include 3D mediums, but I recognize that many mediums are partly or wholly incompatible with certain objectives, such as marble with concept art.



I would love to go on and on about design, it's history and traditions compared that to illustration. . .

Please do! I love learning new things.

[bijarts]

I would love to go on and on about design, it's history and traditions compared that to illustration, but I assumed that sort of historical stuff would bore everyone

As yoda would say, you assume wrongly:)