CHOW #31 - Non Spanish Toreador

[Oblio]

http://www.oreganoproductions.com/chow/chowlines.jpg

ROUND #31


:right: PLEASE CONSOLIDATE YOUR WIPS AND FINALS INTO YOUR FIRST POST.

:right: CLEARLY DESIGNATE YOUR FINAL.

:right: DESCRIPTIONS ARE MANDATORY.

:right: PLACE THE IMAGE IN A FRAME WITH YOUR NAME/TOPIC
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i222/ChowPics/frame.jpg
(you can add CA logo, etc).


:right: Please save your files starting with your nickname.
example: "Oblio_CHOW23_Platformer33 copy copy.jpg" ;)
-------------------------
DEADLINE
SUNDAY, JULY 2nd
The way the deadline works: if deadline is on a Sunday and your image is posted on that Sunday 23:59 your local time it's a good entry.
In fact - as long there is Sunday somewhere on the planet your entry is ok. I will make the poll sometimes Monday afternoon my time (GMT +2) yet i'll have a look at the last entries.
--------------------------
Non Spanish Toreador
bread-tank
see Non Japanese Geisha (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=68973)
...

Sory for the delay...
Now... concept! :yayca:

[Simon Boxer]

Might have to give this one a go...

Incase others are wondering (as I was), a Toreador is the same as a Matador.

From Wikipeda:
The word toreador is used in English to designate the main performer of Spanish-style bullfighting, who taunts and kills the bull. This word, which roughly translates as "bull handler", is not used in Spain or Latin America, where that role is called matador ("killer") or torero.

[GriNGo]

it is used. I live in Ecuador. Wikipedia is therefore, wrong.

[BlueMech]

Then fix it if you fell it is wrong.

[dragon4lunch]

This is a cool topic - so many options! Cool!

[t11]

According to Sherlock's dictionary:

toreador n : someone who fights bulls [syn: bullfighter]

According to WhiteWolf:

Heavily makeuped, black garbed pretentious teenager whom believes oneself to be a vampire.

Oh this one's gonna be cute.

[Tavarilyn]

I believe the official difference between the Toreador and Matador (which stem from the root words "taurus" and "matar" respectively) is that the Toreador are bull fighters, whereas the Matador is a specialized Toreador who actually -kills- the bulls (with a sword).

Hope that helps. :rendered:

(Oh, are we allowed to use the WoW definition of Toreador or are we strictly staying to RL terminology??)

Tav

[GriNGo]

Then fix it if you fell it is wrong.

I don't want to fix it. & correct your grammar.

[dragon4lunch]

GriNGoLoCo:Wikipedia is an online dictionary where anybody from around the world can edit an entry. Thus there is no guarantee that someting is correct but since there are literally millions of people who use it, people will correct a mistake quickly. So BlueMech meant you should go to Wikipedia and improve the entry buy correcting the mistake. That's all.

You look very serious in that portrait, how about a smile :)

Just kidding, but smiling improves peoples moods and it is oh so easy to smile!

[BeamUs]

I think you've got the deadline wrong. Also, can it be a robotic bull?

[dragon4lunch]

Noooooo, BeamUs, you got my idea!!! Ha, yes, I'm sure you can make it a robotic bull, that's what I had in mind. I also was thinking of making the fighter a robot, but I'm not sure yet. Simply don't make him Spanish, that's all that is required.

[marco nelor]

id guess, since we are the concept artists....it can be whatever u want :P

[BeamUs]

Well remember that the bull is not necessary- the focus should be on the bullfighter. I was thinking that if you want to succeed in doing that only one leg of the bull should be showing.

I'm not doing a robotic one but it's still going to be far from ordinary.

By the way, what's the deal with the deadline?

[dragon4lunch]

Ha, nice, the deadline obviously is a mistake! I'm sure deadline is next Sunday!

[Oblio]

id guess, since we are the concept artists....it can be whatever u want :P

Oblio likes...
May it be ... whatever the conceptartist desires.

Deadline fixed - sorry guys - i'm really under fire.

[Landauart]

Well their is no dress in this one so I guess I am boned. lol

[rawwad]

FINAL

Pawel Kowalowski - is Polish Toreador who started his career in Barcelona in 2081, where he bacame modern toreador. He act in famous tauromachy show which was very popular all the world over. It was very moder and expensive fun, because Spanish government forbid killing bulls, then the organizators use modern technology. Show became like hi-tech ballet with robotic bulls in beautiful future stadium. At that time was Pawel young and act only as emergency man, which helped to real "star" , to Spanish toreador Francisco Lopez. Pawel was very talented toreador and acrobat, then it wasn´t surprise when he bacame star of tauromachy show after Francisco Lopez death (he was murdered). Many people said that Pawel was born to bacame Bull-fightning star. His shows were awesome and very dynamic with many acrobatics elements.

Here is Pawel in his special acrobatic suit, which include jumping boots for better acrobatic tricks. Also he has special glove with red light temptation for eletronic bulls (it represent old traditional red flag), which control calculator at his leg and with this has contact with bull. Last important thing is traditioal sword for killing bulls.

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/1218/rawwadchow31nonspanishtoreador.jpg

pen sketch
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/6849/sketch1ha.th.jpg (http://img251.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sketch1ha.jpg)

[GriNGo]

dragon4lunch, yes I know all about the wikipedia, & you're right about the smiling I should change avatar! lol. Rawwad cool entry, I like the background info you gave him aswell. My entry is in idea phase for the moment, now I'm trying to recollect some references to see what happens...

later!
GRiNGoLoCo

[t11]

Damn Rawwad, waste some time or somethin' I mean... F#ck! You don't sleep do you. You're a cyborg? I knew it.

[Landauart]

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i205/landauart/bukkstab.jpg

Heres what I have so far...Ill post the story later this week. After reading all these comments I wish i did a robot...

The Year is 2026 and after a long brutal war the forces of P.E.T.A have finally been destroyed. The world is again free to to use and abuse animals as they please without fear of prosecution or discrimination. Thus the legacy of the Toreador becomes a world sports phenomenon and soon after an Olympic event. Representing the Americans... Brock Samson Jr. geared with his Nike Cowboy Boots. Assless Chaps, and Bowie Knife "cause swords are for sissies".

[dragon4lunch]

Landauart, that is well done. But it also shows the nastiness of this idiotic "sport"/ritual. Causing the poor bull to suffer. Your image, using the US flag to blind the bull and then getting blood all over it... has an interesting connotaion... kind of like the propaganda that is being spewed in the name of freedom and then the blood of innocents that is spilled... Whoa, way to get heavy with the subject matter.

[flex mathews]

WIP 2
here is a quick wip. i thought if i posted it i would actually finish it.
-finished, quick overlay of color
http://www.dumbhot.com/casketchbook/flex-mathews-chow31-toreador.jpg
masai toreador
-he worked as a guide for foriegn big game hunters traveling in africa. he maintains traditional masai garb, adorned with trophies of previous hunts. he mainly kills wildabeests, watusi, and other large bulls of africa. the combination of his brightly colored attire and his game of choice earned him the nickname, the toreador, by spanish hunters he was guiding through the bush. he was later brought to spain to fight bulls professionally.

[BeamUs]

Landauart- Don't worry you haven't done what everyone else was planning on. You don't want to be like everyone else do you? Good entry.

flex- I really like how this is coming along. His skull shoulder pad is a really nice touch and the weapon looks interesting. I assume you're going to add very vibrant colors to his clothes?

[PsychoVoodoo]

My first ChOW entry. Definately WIP.
http://community.conceptart.org/gallery/I/2005/01/01/9105.jpg

EDIT: Next WIP
http://community.conceptart.org/gallery/I/2005/01/01/9194.jpg

[Pixeldragoon]

Can't resist this topic.

Had to jump in quick, some thumbs and a quick comp!
http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/1880/chow9th.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
BULLS SWORDS ARMOR AND MINISKIRTS? YES PLEASE!

[Define.]

wow guys, good work, great ideas. I'll be handing something in this round as well, but my wip looks weak compared to all these entries. I think I'll wait til later in the week to post some worrrrk!

[Oblio]

neat - we have a great start.
toreadors have a very ritualistic way, dress code and such - that's what made them appealing for me. they are not just bull fighters.. they have a darling in the audience, they act with the crowd, etc...

[Shamagim]

My entry:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y8/shamagim/Shamagim_CHOW31_NST.jpg



Xenodian Bullfighter

In one of our scout missions to some of the garden planets we made some time ago ( around lunch yesterday), we inspected the third garden from one of those small solar system appointed to us. We found that those pseudo-apes with termite syndrome were doing fine, creating all kind of strange and sometimes idiotic rituals.

The ones we liked were of cource the ones who had to do with public entertainment, such as the one with the giant felines and goofy wheely things. So, sometime before lunch we checked again someplace else, they did some little porgress, but putting people in funny outfits inside a ring was still the favorite ritual, specialy if there was blood involved ( this guys love blood). But this time it was with bulls...and the outfits were even funnier.

Anyways, we thought it was a brilliant idea and we stole it. It was hard enough to find people of our own to put themselves in danger while wearing something ththat would take all their dignity, I mean rodeo clowns are at least trying to be funny, and they have barrels and stuff. So we desided to take people from a planet we use to breed stupid muscle soldiers with iron skin......But the idea didn´t worked out with normal bulls from that third planet, so we looked in the archives for even bigger bull-like creatures and we were lucky to find this really massive and brutal bulls that not only ram you, they also stomp you with their massive head.

The idea was a success of cource, the ratings were up in that show and we retired from our crappy abducting job.

[Sept13]

http://www.sept13.org/files/gallery/big/1151512198.jpg

The last hope of humankind - Toreadors

By 2145 almost all pet animals are extinct because of various viruses and radiation in the air. Only because of some random genetic mutation bulls and cows became suitable pet animals - and after being intergrated into pet animals - they evolved in few years to become humanoidish, intteligent and aggressive againts humans.

The bull revolution took the war weakened humankind by surprise and soon overcame all major resistances. Now they control the cities and enslave and breed humans as their food.

One of the last guerilla organisations is the Toreadors, the former elite EU platoon, which now fights with it's last gas bombs and swords to free as many human slaves as possible, and get them into underground shelters.

They fight only with their swords, striking when they are least expected like assassins. They kill without mercy to ensure that every human has beef for dinner.

[jasonnavarrette]

Sigh, here's my speed paint. I'm not so leet as these other entries :( but very nice guys! you continue to inspire

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f210/corbeledg/matador.jpg

[Frank Wade]

I had the idea of a Minotaur Toreador, but I'm too lazy.

Kinda ironic, very catchy though!

[Pixeldragoon]

I had that idea too, but instantly discarded because I thought of it too fast =)

[Michael Jaecks]

Hmm. I'm doing a kind of a minotaur toreador. He doesnt have a bull's head, per se... I'll post a WIP when I am a little further along, maybe tonight or early tomorrow morning. I'm working on it right this minute actually.

[TheGnoll]

ok, so we want some kind of toreador/matador whatever.But can you create a non human character that fights a creature that is not a bull and does not fight in a "normal" enviroment".I mean, we just want to have the whole "man vs Beast" thing right?

ciao

[Define.]

ok, so we want some kind of toreador/matador whatever.But can you create a non human character that fights a creature that is not a bull and does not fight in a "normal" enviroment".I mean, we just want to have the whole "man vs Beast" thing right?

ciao

that's also what I was wondering but was too lazy to ask. I came up with all of these cool ideas but thought that perhaps it wouldn't fit the actual theme, so I ended up doing something MUCH more simple. oh well. good question, I'd like it answered too. :)

[Oblio]

guys - don't restrain yourselfs.
we're doing this to be creative.
there is so much to be done to still fit the description.
no matter how youre creature looks - the torreadors have so many distinctive things...
- classical pose
- cape in hand
- speciffic hat for the ears
- speciffic clothing AND accesories...

i havent's seen much of those in the previous entries.
i'm sure we can find more - even color paletem etc...
don;t get me wrong - i like the entries.. but if i change the subject with warrior - all the entries fit. ;)
psychovoodoo's ideea with the fans looks interesting to me. Pixeldragon has captured a bit of the flaming style of clothing.
the helmet Shamagim designed even if not traditional.. makes the character fit. hope you get what i'm saying - man i need more sleep.
this morning Ubisoft opened the Bulgarian studio in Sofia. yaay... now... back to work.

[PsychoVoodoo]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure toreadors don't actually kill the bulls, they just tease them. So I'm not quite sure what all the swords are doing in these entries. I'm surprised at the lack of red flags/objects/whateveryoucallits... I mean, isn't that the first thing you think of when you think "toreador"? Landouart's done a good job of it, with the american flag. Great idea. And Rawwad kinda implemented it with that red light dealy. But Oblio's right, most of these characters don't have anything really bullfighting specific, they could all just be "warriors".

[Michael Jaecks]

Traditionally, I believe, the bull is killed. In our more "civilized" age, this idea of course upsets a few people, so there are laws against it. Although, I have no doubt that in some circles or circumstances, as is the case with anything that sits on the fringe of the law, the bull gets killed.

[Michael Jaecks]

Well, now that I look it up, I guess they still kill the bull in Spain. Its banned many other places, and other countries have bloodless versions of bullfighting, but in Spain it still exists and their animal cruelty laws have specific special exceptions for bullfighting. I guess tradition wins. Its also really involved; the whole ritual plays out in three acts, there are other players besides the matador who weaken the bull before the final kill. The pink and gold capes come out during the first act, the red cape during the last, but actually bulls are color blind. There's even one section of a traditional bullfight where the bull is confronted by a rider on an armored, blindfolded horse.

[Michael Jaecks]

Incidentally, through the ritual of the bullfight, the bull is weakened with a series of stikes with lances. Although, there's a delicate balance to be performed in doing so, as the audience knows and reacts strongly if the bull is weakened too much before the final phase with the matador, who kills the bull with a sword. Of course, there's no guarantee the bull will die, and then there's a whole other process of cutting the spinal cord by some of the matador's crew... ...I never knew it was so involved.

[chaosrocks]

Picadors on horseback carefully place small spears to weaken the bull. the Matador faces the bull alone on the ground with sword and cape. the bull is killed. some say the whole ritual is realated to and older form of sacrifice where the king would laydown his life for his land, after battleing withthe new king,insuring good crops and fertile season..(I don't get the connection between good crops and dead kings...my self). when the bull took the place of the king in this ritual it was insured of the utmost wonderful treatment and respect. and was killed with great ceremony.....it is alos thought that the "Bulldancers" of crete were a part of the the ancient tradition that lead to the bull fighting of today.

There....more than you probably wanted to know but a different direction to think about.

chaos

[jasonnavarrette]

I saw a bullfight in spain a year or so ago. After the armord horses come out and stab the back muscles of the bull until it's walking funny, then the "matadors in training" come out in pairs of three, and throw those spikes (see landuart's weapons in his picture) at the bull which stick in their back and syphon blood out. Then after three sets of spikes are in the bull, a matador comes out and teases the bull for a while, showing his mastery at controlling the animal. Then at a final dramatic moment, he flags the bull closer, and tries to put his sword right in between the bull's back to kill the bull instantly. One of the fights I saw, the matador tried four times and couldn't kill the bull. Then finally when the bull was too weak to move (probably because of punctured lungs), the matador was boo'd out of the arena, and someone came out and blew the bull's brains into the sand with a small caliber pistol.

There were several times when the matador couldn't control the bull, and he ran up over the wall while a dozen people came out and flagged the bull down.

[Simon Boxer]

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f107/cognitionsb/cognitionsb_CHOW31_STjun06.jpg

Sand Toreador

With acrobatic prowess, Kitte Hio kills desert-dwelling Lyyks for sport. Relying solely on her agillity she needs to be as light as possible to out-maneuvre these giant beasts, which are baited by her tattered red cape. From a distance this resembles the feathers of the Madden Lyre, which only exist on the planet Corpus. This is a preferred food source for Lyyks, and consequently Corpus has become a common hunting ground for Sand Toreadors.

The fete itself is generally quite spectacular, and crowds follow the action from Observer Shuttles at high altitude. Because an open fighting ground is used the Toreador must be wary of attracting multiple Lyyks, and Scout troops standby at all times to evacuate the fighter when things get risky.

So far Kitte is the only Sand Toreador to have survived against 2 Lyyks simultaneously.

[BeamUs]

- classical pose
- cape in hand
- speciffic hat for the ears
- speciffic clothing AND accesories...

I thought we were supposed to have freedom with character design. What's the point of designing characters if we have to give them specific clothing and objects?

[Hookswords]

- classical pose
- cape in hand
- speciffic hat for the ears
- speciffic clothing AND accesories...

I thought we were supposed to have freedom with character design. What's the point of designing characters if we have to give them specific clothing and objects?

I think that list was something to keep in mind. Things that make toreadors what they are.

[Michael Jaecks]

edited, removed. Sorry to take up peoples time with this debate.

[BeamUs]

Nice work Neo. I can only recommend you make his eyes more menacing. Right now he looks kinda dopey :P .

[Hookswords]

This will stand as the Final

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/604/hookswordstoreador13zf.jpg

In the grandest cities of Lolth exist arenas of all make and sort. These are reserved for days of great ceremony to praise Lolth's name. Many events take place, but there is one that every child, elder, and noble wait with baited breath to see. The fights of the Jivvin'xuil Ukt Ogglinn. The fighters of great talent, Jivvin'xuil Ukt Ogglinn translates roughly to "Plays with his enemy." Talented men, beyond the training of the avereage warrior. They train to torment and toy with their enemy. It is not odd to see them use any range of weapons. The classical Jivvin'xuil Ukt Ogglinn uses Tsyde Velve lu' Elgluth, or "Thin Blade and Whip." Their system is very stern and regimented. Firstly, one must leap onto the enemy to discharge the spur darts. Their boots are fitted with a mechanism for this discharge, a simple movement releases them.These darts are enchanted with faerie fire. It does not burn one, but illuminates the target. These read vivid in the infrared spectrum of the Dark elves vision, allowing the Jivvin'xuil Ukt Ogglinn to more clearly make out the movements of his enemy. Secondly, the movement and sound of his faerie fire tipped whip and the flapping of his piwafwi (usually red) are used to guide and make spectacle of the enemy. Once proper show has been made, the thin blade for the kill. The fatal strike of the thin blade must be done so that the animal's last moments are of utter pain and embarassment. Any fool can strike a beast's most vital spot that would drop them in an instant. Only the Jivvin'xuil Ukt Ogglinn know the death points that will send their beast enemy into fits of spasms and other humiliating bowel emptying spectacles. To show that the Dark Elves, and their Maiden Lolth, are the superior in this cursed land of lightlessness.

[Michael Jaecks]

BeamUs: Thanks. I guess I like them big and stupid. :) I see what you're saying about the eyes. I could change that. The longer I stare into his chest the more I wanna fire up the grill. It's like the perfect summer night for that here.

[Michael Jaecks]

Hey! A drow toreador! That's pretty nifty, I wish I thought of that. Do they fight giant spiders? Lolth is gonna have a fit when she hears that. :)

[Michael Jaecks]

You know I just thought of this, and I dont think I can use it, but... it would be a hoot if one person made their entry look like velvet painting. Toreadors are always the best subjects for velvet paintings. If someone did that, I might have to vote for it just in principle.

[Michael Jaecks]

You know I just thought of this, and I dont think I can use it, but... it would be a hoot if one person made their entry look like velvet painting. Toreadors are always the best subjects for velvet paintings. If someone did that, I might have to vote for it just in principle.

[Shamagim]

Nevermind...

[BeamUs]

Uh oh- Neo got busted.

[Michael Jaecks]

edited: removed. No point in this post either as I'm not entering this CHOW. But for the record I NEVER stole anyones work

[BeamUs]

Art created only for this activity will be accepted

[Michael Jaecks]

Why can't you use your own sketchbooks or drawings for new work? Who doesn't? Why draw everyday if you can't use it in the future? Why not only make work from beginning to end as soon as you hear the starting gun? Why waste the time?

Surely there must be room for a more organic kind of creative process than that.

I also find the exact wording of the rule a little, well... nebulous.

I defer to the admin. Its a new painting on an old(ish) drawing. I'll take it down if you want me to.

EDIT: I'm trying to edit and quote at the same time and not doing it correctly. Sorry...

Wassermelone said (below):

"And I thought drawing from scratch was a good thing...
I would say that most people use their drawings from their sketchbook as perhaps inspiration. Otherwise, I think most people do start from scratch on most pieces of art. Under your method, what happens when your client asks you for something you dont have in your sketchbook already? You just gotta start from scratch. Its going to come out better if you make it for that topic specifically anway."

Drawing from scratch is a good thing. I seem to remember being the one who did the drawing, which is a point that seems to get lost in this debate. If I don't have something in my sketchbook I think is usable, I seem to think I'll continue to have the same skills in a new drawing as I did in the hundred previous. And I'm sorry, but I cannot agree that work you're making in front of you is necessarily the best. Revisited ideas, developed ideas, ideas that have stewed on the back burner for a while and are looked at in a new light later... they are often better. One example I can think of is the design for the character of Darth Maul from Phantom Menace. Say what you will about the stinker of a movie, the character design is brilliant... and as the concept artist tells it, it began as an ink blob on a face, a mistake, that got developed, then left behind and then revisted and developed again. And now its one of the most famous faces in sci fi movie history. My arguement is not that my work compares. My arguement is this: that process is valid and the way a lot of people work.

Again. Its the way I work. I did the work. I worked on drawings today I probably won't look at again for weeks or longer. I'll come back to them later. Its a part of my process and it works for me.

But if it breaks the rule, Oblio, I will take down my entry.

[wassermelone]

Yeah, the painting is over a drawing I did before. Surely that can't be a problem.

It is indeed a problem.

The whole point of CoW, ChoW, EoW etc is to start, from scratch, something every week on a specific topic.


Why can't you use your own sketchbooks or drawings for new work? Who doesn't? Why draw everyday if you can't use it in the future? Why not only make work from beginning to end as soon as you hear the starting gun? Why waste the time?

Surely there must be room for a more organic kind of creative process than that.

I also find the exact wording of the rule a little, well... nebulous.

I defer to the admin. Its a new painting on an old(ish) drawing. I'll take it down if you want me to.


And I thought drawing from scratch was a good thing...
I would say that most people use their drawings from their sketchbook as perhaps inspiration. Otherwise, I think most people do start from scratch on most pieces of art. Under your method, what happens when your client asks you for something you dont have in your sketchbook already? You just gotta start from scratch. Its going to come out better if you make it for that topic specifically anway.

[jasonnavarrette]

cognition. that is HOT
wow

[jasonnavarrette]

don't listen to wasser, neorepto. Some people commented negetivly on my stuff in here and I about quit this hobby because I hated the negetive-with-no-help critisism, which looked like it was more designed to demean someone who wasn't as good as everyone else. I am defitnily not as good as others, but it still sucked to hear the community I looked up to so much, trash my pieces.

Even if some people try their best to discourage, you should continue doing what you do. You improve with each drawing, and this is a community event (minus the sentiments of wasser). So keep it up bro! Good art work btw!

[Hookswords]

Hey! A drow toreador! That's pretty nifty, I wish I thought of that. Do they fight giant spiders? Lolth is gonna have a fit when she hears that. :)

Yeah, I've been reading the Drizzt books lately and have been playing on an Underdark server in Neverwinter Nights, so dorw have kinda been on my mind. And, no, he wont be spider fighting

[artiphats]

don't listen to wasser, neorepto

On the contrary I say DO listen to Wasser. He is right that the idea here is to come up with something new, specifically for the new topic each week. I agree that most people start from scratch, as it really helps to strengthen your skills. Most of us that participate in these activites, when we have time, are doing so to improve, not to find shortcuts.

Also, Corbeledg, I would be interested to see the post where people were trashing your work. I say this because in all the time I have been on CA, and even before I joined when I just looked around, I have never seen an artist get trashed who didnt ask for it. I would say 90% of the time members will critique and comment in order to push the posting artist to do better. Some people might come off wrong, but usually their intentions are good. The other 10% of the time the person posting is being arrogant and defensive and the think they know it all, and only then does trashing commence. I am not making assumptions about you here, like I said I would just be interested to see the thread. Of course there are jackasses around who are not helpful, but there are a lot more helpful members here, so you just have to weed out the bad apples.

As it is here, I dont see anyone trashing Neo, just trying to set him on the right path. Obviously it was assumed that the image in question was not his, but Neo proved that to be incorrect, so he gets points for that. That was about the only mistake on anyone else's part though, but then I am not an admin or moderator here, so this is just my point of view.

[Pixeldragoon]

Why draw everyday if you can't use it in the future?

Uhhhh.... to get better?

Also, you using that pic doesn't piss off the admin's, but it won't be accepted for the activity even if you finish it. It's in the rules.

[Shamagim]

I do correct myself and apologize for assuming the picture was not his...But is still WRONG!

[Michael Jaecks]

You know, I'm sorry for not quoting and editing, but I can't respond to everyone in a single post.

As a person who works every single day, seven days a week, multiple projects at a time, sketchbooks, drawings and now digital paintings...I... well, I'm not going to get mad enough to say I'm offended... but I take exception at the idea that I'm interested in taking shortcuts. I don't see shortcuts. I'm a person who works very hard at what I do, and I am continually trying to improve. Two months ago I was hesitant to ever submit anything to any activity because all I really had to work with was pencil and paint, and it never ever looked as sharp as the digital entries. One and a half months ago I started on the tablet and I was miserable at the result of trying to paint over my own black and white work because I couldnt figure out how to color without it getting muddy. Now, today I've figured out the different brush settings and I CAN finally paint over my own pencils, which is exactly what I've been champing at the bit to do all along. I make a step forward every single day. I sketch and draw and paint every day. I work on multiple projects every day. I don't work in a linear fashion on everything start to finish. Some things will get revisited, some things will get forgotten completely. And I still can't agree that the linear start to finish is the only way to work or the best way. I'm sorry, I just can't. Real creative problem solving just doesnt work that way. You can't simply forsake everything you've done before as unusable. You're cutting out a whole world of ways to problem solve. I'm not saying don't start new things. Do that every day. But finish only new things today? No. Sorry. I think that kills an important part of the process.

[wassermelone]

And I still can't agree that the linear start to finish is the only way to work or the best way. I'm sorry, I just can't. Real creative problem solving just doesnt work that way. You can't simply forsake everything you've done before as unusable. You're cutting out a whole world of ways to problem solve. I'm not saying don't start new things. Do that every day. But finish only new things today? No. Sorry. I think that kills an important part of the process.

That may be, Im not trying to argue with the way you do your art on a casual day to day basis, but the point of these specific activities IS to do something start to finish. Considering that you do actually start a new drawing every now and then, surely you understand the benefits of doing something new?

Consider this, say you have a sketchbook full of beautiful drawings of ponies. You've made a lot of money off of ponies. You can usually use these ponies for your pony based jobs. But then Corporation X comes a long... and they say, "Sir, we love your style, your energy, your colors etc... but we hates ponies, could you draw us a toaster? We will give you 2000 for each bread slice slot!"

Are you gonna give up a lucrative job just because you dont have any ponies that look like toasters?

[Shamagim]

Man, I´m not saying or doing this to piss you off, offend you or anything like it, I don´t want to read about how hard you work either, because is completely unrelated.

What you did was to copy and paste some renderings that took more than 4 hours, and then took 30 minutes to put horns and hooves to it.

You know the rules, in fact it was the reason you didn´t submited that same drawing in the previous CHoW.

This is a contest, in wish people have limited time to create a concept from scratch, if you copy / paste one of your own drawings to create a new concept you get unfair advantage and you fool yourself into believing that you actually created a "new" concept.



"And it kills an important part of the process if you have the memory of a goldfish, because thats what memory is for."

Don´t tell me the story of your life, don´t apologize and don´t make escuses, just do the work for this CHoW and take the copy/paste one out....you oviously CAN make a good piece, and as you say you work really hard, then you have plenty of time to do so until the deadline.

[Bruce Jensen]

My 2 cents:
Using your sketchbooks for inspiration and solutions is not harmful to your professional health. It never seems to harm this guy (http://www.bradholland.net/beta/portfolios/portfolioAdv.html) who's really quite good. :wink:
As to whether it's acceptable, and to what degree, in these 'competitions' I won't argue. Getting better is always the point anyway, not winning.

[artiphats]

I am not here to argue with anyone, so I will try and keep this short:

Neorepto, let me make it clear that I think you are pretty good, judging from the work you have posted that I have seen. You obviously have some talent, and I have no reason to doubt that you work hard on your pieces and your goal is to continue to improve.

That being said...

Modifying and painting over an old drawing as a means to a resulting entry for a current CHOW is a shortcut, period. You obviously have enough skill to come up with something completely new. What applies to work and other art that you do does not apply to these activities. There are rules here for a reason. We are all busy people, many of us work or go to school or both. That is why every week you see WIP's that people start, that never get finished. You talked about real creative problem solving. The problem to creatively solve in CHOW is to come up with a new concept for the topic before the deadline. This of course may not apply to other areas of work that you do, this is just for CA activities.

I am not trying to be your enemy. I am sure you are working toward many of the same goals as myself. That I can only assume, based off of some of your comments. Take it all as you will, I will say no more about it. Who knows, maybe the mods will completely disagree with me, they are the gods here so I do not dare say my own word is law. It does seem that others are telling you pretty much the same thing though.

[Michael Jaecks]

Hmm. Well, its taken a hell of a lot longer than thirty minutes to get the piece from the drawing to where it is now. Longer than the drawing. I don't want to bore you with the story of my life and how hard I work, but I will point out that in much the same way you didnt know what you were talking about when you accused me of stealing the drawing, you still don't know what you're talking about in terms of how long I've worked on my entry.

You know, you'll think this is completely unrelated, but I want to make one last point. Over in COW, right now, there's a piece in the poll that includes Hubble Telescope photos which have been worked together in PS as *a part* of the new work. I think its fair to say that the assembled parts of those photos make an important part of the overall concept, not just a background. And yet, no one has condemned that person and he is in fact doing quite well in the poll.

And yet curiously painting over my own drawing is offending people's sense of fairness.

Well, be offended no more. I'm taking it down.

EDIT: Its down, as are the other images I posted. I just want to say to anyone who reads this late... it was always my work. Its my way of working. I didnt steal from anyone. I don't feel like I take shortcuts. I'm surprised by this.

[Shamagim]

(Fine...be like that...Is not like you can stop being defensive right now.)...Nevermind this too

[Bruce Jensen]

^ wtf? You pretty much bullied him out on this, and you bother to add 'fine...be like that' Y'all need to tone it down imo. His point about the Cow entry is fairly on topic too. More drawing and less policing I'd say.

[Michael Jaecks]

Thanks for the support, Bruce. As far as being defensive, Sham, you can think what you like. I don't think you know a damn thing about me. In addition to working very hard, I am also a person of principle. As the rules for COW are the same as CHOW on this point, I'm taking down that entry as well, because sadly for me, I wasted my time learning the process of painting my over my own pencils with that entry as well, using an older sketch as the basis for that work. Silly me. I'll immediately cease this lurid transgressing of the rules and work to better myself by downloading custom brushes and learning to scrape them across photos culled from the NASA archives.

BTW: thats not being defensive, thats being passive agressive. ;)

[Define.]

^ wtf? You pretty much bullied him out on this, and you bother to add 'fine...be like that' Y'all need to tone it down imo. His point about the Cow entry is fairly on topic too. More drawing and less policing I'd say.


truth! I came in here to see if any entries were finished or WIPs almost done. then I had to read all the babble ramble babbleeeee!!

[jasonnavarrette]

artiphats, I'll go hunt down the post and send you a private message. I don't want to link it incase someone bumps it and I get crapped on again.

wasser...You keep arguing against what he's doing because he won't have a lucrative job. But what if he (like many of us) simply LOVE art, design, and improving ourselves?

Consider this: you have a sketchbook full of beautiful ponies. You've made a lot of money off of ponies. But then Corporation X comes along and says "Sir, can you write our email application in javascript?" Of course you can! Because that's what you do for a job, and drawing ponies was your hobby and passion, and thus why you were a memeber of concept art.

Neo, keep doing whatever it is you do best, as you improve with each stroke of the pen. See, you even learned about different brushes you can use because of this whole event. Therefore, it was infinetly valuble that you copied your own pieces. Cheers!

Again, I've seen a whole bunch of insperation in this whole thread, and my hat's off to everyone who contributed their inspiring work. (cognition, I'm still a huge fan :)

[wassermelone]

Although I have to agree, Shamagim is being rather directly confrontational, the Nebulabeast thing from CoW you use as an example isn't really using prior art in the way yours is. The creature itself, IE the activity, is entirely new.


wasser...You keep arguing against what he's doing because he won't have a lucrative job. But what if he (like many of us) simply LOVE art, design, and improving ourselves?

Consider this: you have a sketchbook full of beautiful ponies. You've made a lot of money off of ponies. But then Corporation X comes along and says "Sir, can you write our email application in javascript?" Of course you can! Because that's what you do for a job, and drawing ponies was your hobby and passion, and thus why you were a memeber of concept art.

Im not argueing. Im not trying to police the activity. Im trying to explain the specific point of what these activities are for. These activities are an assigment (if you so choose to take it). The rules say that you cannot use prior art; its as simple as that. My example was merely a way to explain the why for the rule; you probably won't have prior art on a job which these activities are a (loose) model for.

[edit]
But yes, less talk, more art.

[TheGnoll]

wtf are you guys taking about?
btw, corbeledg and NeoRepto, i'd avoid doing so many double or triple posts, the "edit" button is there for a reason.
About what i wanted too do, i'm pretty disapponted, a thought I had a good idea, but i really don't have time to do anything (damn.again.argh)
Here's the idea (maybe i'll do something about it sooner or later)

Marlinians:

The sport of bull shark fighting is very popular in the aggressive race of the marlinians.They are an acquatic race, a cross of human and sail fish features.Males usually grow an impressive blue crest on their back, too help them swim at terrible speed.The have primitive but efficient culture, and their only natural enemy are the Giant Bull Sharks of Kahli (their native planet).When they manage to capture one, they usually enclose the shark in a coral reef, were young and more experienced males fight agains the shark/s to prove their courage and swimming ability.They usually first attract the sharks attention with their back-sail, swimming back and forth, they when the shark is badly wounded they kill him with arpoons made or carved corals.The number of shark's teeth necklaces is a diplay of power in males of the marlinian race.

ok, finished.Damn i really wish I had time...

ciao

[Simon Boxer]

Wow, this thread has exploded...

corbel - cheers for the support.

Updated the image... Still a bit of refining to do.

[artiphats]

For the sake of adding more art to the thread, here is my 20 or so minute Painter WIP. Not sure where I am going to take it yet, I will let the painting go in its own direction to some degree.

http://www.artiphats.com/artwork/tor-wip.jpg

[Michael Jaecks]

Although I have to agree, Shamagim is being rather directly confrontational, the Nebulabeast thing from CoW you use as an example isn't really using prior art in the way yours is. The creature itself, IE the activity, is entirely new.

The point you make here is pretty silly if you actually looked at the entry I'm talking about. Its a space creature made of space matter cobbled together from a bunch of Hubble pictures with a paint over it in Photoshop. The photos arent a background, they aren't a minor prop, the photos are a huge point in what makes the entry as good as it is. If you think you think you can argue otherwise, you're not looking at the entry I'm talking about.

And according to you, that's not using previous art. Because why? Becuase the artist is using photos of the sky? Photos he wouldnt himself be able to take (cause I dont think he's got a Hubble grade telescope at home.)

Look... first I got called a thief. Well that was wrong. Then I essentially got called lazy for taking shortcuts by the moral certitude of the collective conceptart police for starting a new painting over a smaller drawing that belonged to me in the first place. You're talking about a little paint over a lot of photo no one here took vs. a lot of paint over a smaller drawing I did myself. One is acceptable, even laudible, the other is not.

It's a bunch of bull, and y'all know it. Setting up a bunch of straw men about which way is the best way to work and toasters vs. ponies doesnt make you're point either. Citing my example and saying it doesn't completely make my arguement is bogus.

I can't even believe I'm reading this. I can't even believe you think that's a logical, acceptable arguement. How can you sit there and look at the Nebulabeast and not recognize what is and isnt original about that work? And how critically important those Hubble photos are to that work. Without them the entry would cease to exist.

(on a side note, I want to say I like the nebulabeast and think it was made from a completely valid way to work.)

[BeamUs]

Neo, I do somewhat agree with you point. I have many small sketches and doodles that I reuse in future artwork; the only difference is that you have completed black and white sketches. I don't think there's a problems with taking a previous picture or idea and taking it further and giving it a specific theme.

I recommend you do another picture because you know what the big boss man's going to say. Also, if the problem persists keep your portfolio and sketches private and there will be no problems.

[Michael Jaecks]

BeamUs: I PMed you a response.

Anyone else: please, lets keep this off the board from now on. If you have a point you want to make to me, please PM it from now on. We don't need to waste the space.

Thanks for the recommendation BeamUs. I'm just going to finish the painting I started and not worry about the contest. I think thats best now.

[Define.]

Here's my completed entry!

http://www.woodfellow.ca/Define._Chow31_Toreador2.bmp
As a teenager, Devyn Millbarn visited Spain at least a dozen times with her parents.
Not once did she think she'd be in her idols' place as a real Toreador herself. She
is now a sex symbol -- an icon to all women -- posing for many magazines and always
keeping a busy schedule.

[dCepT]

Hey ya'll... Figured I could post my WIP... I'll have it done by sunday...
Oh yeah... I'll include a zoom at full res. also.. posted this in my SB earlier today, but forgot to put it up in here... heh...

WIP:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/dCepT/2dpics/ColsketchW.jpg
Detail:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/dCepT/2dpics/ColDetailW.jpg

I got a lot of constructive crits on my last CHoW that it looked a bit smooth... so I'm trying for some rougher brushwork on this one...

Lots of cool entries so far, and lots of potential in the WIPs! Good lookin' out ya'll!

EDIT: Damn... I see that I've got almost the same pose as Define... only the male counterpart... oh well.. sorry about that, Define, wasn't trying to steal your stuff.. didn't even see it before after I posted.. hehe.. Maybe our toreadores could hook up and fight some bulls together... :D

EDIT2: Finished piece..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/dCepT/2dpics/dCepT_CHOW31_NonSpanishToreador.jpg
"Diederik is a no holds barred cage fighter from Germany.
Unlike a lot of his opponents he doesn't rely on grappling, but has concentrated his skills on kicking and evasion.
His first nickname "the Bullfighter" came from him always fighting opponents that were bigger than him.
He adopted this, and added bullfighting poses and the "muleta"
(the red cape used when the traditional matador performs the "tercio de muerte" and kills the bull) to his game, using the "muleta" to conceal his techniques
and adding more flare to his performance, thus earning himself his new nickname "the Toreador".

Diedrik is of course a favourite with the crowd, and feared amongst his opponents, much like a traditional toreador."


peace

d-C

[Define.]

hahahah that's hilarious dude. you don't have to say sorry! they should definately hook up. she likes bald guys. :wink:

[Hookswords]

Update on page one, any thoughts are welcome.

[Simon Boxer]

Alright, Hookswords, I've done a quick paintover mainly focussing on the feet. To make the pose more dynamic you could've put it in perspective. This would require a slight modification to the upper body as well (mainly shoulder alignment), but I've just repositioned the lower. In that stance neither foot should be side on. The paintover's very quick so it's slightly off, but hopefully it's pretty self-explanatory. I've shortened the upper right leg and moved the rest up a bit so it's in perspective, and also shortened the torso (it was too long).

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f107/cognitionsb/hookswordspaintover.jpg

Other crits: The blue blobble effect doesn't suit the image style and thinner lines generally look better.

While I'm at it...
Define - Nice pose, and the skin's rendered with good form, but it looks like you've dodge/burned the fabrics. You'll achieve a better look if not every item of clothing is shadowed with black and lightened with white. Also, the brush used for dust looks out of place, I see a magic dust serpent waving through the image. I'd probably just remove it or keep the dust low since it's detracting from the image.

[Define.]

While I'm at it...
Define - Nice pose, and the skin's rendered with good form, but it looks like you've dodge/burned the fabrics. You'll achieve a better look if not every item of clothing is shadowed with black and lightened with white. Also, the brush used for dust looks out of place, I see a magic dust serpent waving through the image. I'd probably just remove it or keep the dust low since it's detracting from the image.

I actually agree with you on that dust thing, I saved a copy in case it DID take away from the image. and I do agree about the dodging and burning, I JUST got photoshop and need to broaden my horizons. if you have any alternatives to that, for making fabric look more like ... fabric, I'd love to hear it. thanks!

[Hookswords]

thanks man, I knew something was bothering me about the feet. And though an interesting effect, i agree that the faerie fire doesnt quite suit the image style. Appreciate it, I'll see what I can do

[MasumiX]

Damn, I dont have the skill to do it yet, but I would have loved to see a version with the "bull" being of the whale variety...

[Simon Boxer]

I JUST got photoshop and need to broaden my horizons. if you have any alternatives to that, for making fabric look more like ... fabric, I'd love to hear it. thanks!

Cool, it's a useful program, but as with most things it takes quite awhile to learn. I'm always finding better ways to do things.

As for rendering, it depends what type of fabric you're wanting to assimilate, but for starters I'd suggest choosing a darker/lighter colour (of similar hue) to paint shadows etc instead of a low opacity black/white or the dodge/burn tool. It may also be easiest to add textures after the basic form is rendered.

[Oblio]

here's a very messy paintover to ilutrate another thing you should take into account.

i made your pic B&W - your values are realy dark and there is no difference between what's close and what's far, no consistent light etc.
My paintover it's not a realy good example but at least it shows the direction.

[TheGnoll]

FINAL

ok, i did manage in the end.Not exactly "clean", but guess for me it is.Nobody said anything about the concept so i assume its ok.

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/4223/thegnollchow31nonspanisht4ml.jpg

Marlinians:

The sport of bull shark fighting is very popular in the aggressive race of the marlinians.They are an aquatic race, a cross of human and sailfish features.Males usually grow an impressive blue crest on their back, to help them swim at terrible speed.The have primitive but efficient culture, and their only natural enemy are the Giant Bull Sharks of Kahli (their native planet).When they manage to capture one, they usually enclose the shark in a coral reef, where youngs and more experienced males fight agains the shark/s to prove their courage and swimming ability.They usually first attract the sharks attention with their back-sail, swimming back and forth, then when the shark is badly wounded they kill him with harpoons or their rostrum.The number of shark's teeth necklaces is a diplay of power in males of the marlinian race.

Hope its ok, its my first CHOW :D
EDIT: a bit more polished version.

ciao

[Hookswords]

here's a very messy paintover to ilutrate another thing you should take into account.

i made your pic B&W - your values are realy dark and there is no difference between what's close and what's far, no consistent light etc.
My paintover it's not a realy good example but at least it shows the direction.

I see...yes, that is a problem. Thanks.

[ThrillzillA]

Ow dear I finally finished an entry :D. So this is my FINAL

http://student-kmt.hku.nl/~daniel1/Thrillzilla_CHOW31_Hoofs.jpg

Hoofs

This guy is one mean bull killing machine. He was born in a
village in mexico where he was soon chased away for being
"the devils child" after his mother could not hide him anymore
after he sucked dry a couple of goats and becoming part of
the folklore. When the local sheriff heard rumours about the
devils child which would be a perfect asset for his underground
bullfights. So they went to the villages to try and persuade
the villagers to help them capture him, but fearing the wrath
of the devil the villagers did not help out. Still money is stronger then
faith and soon the devils child could be taken prisoner. After
training with the best mexico had to offer in bullfighting he
slowly outgrew fighting bulls. And throughout his years growing
up he became one of the main attraction of the underground
bullfighting scene where he, instead of fighting bulls, he fights
humans(prisoners from the sheriffs police department and
people that could not pay there debt) in big massacre fights,
where people would bet on thebody count made by the devils
child. Because the creature could not talk (except for ARGHHHH
GRRRRRRRR but you can't call your monster that ofcourse) and
his real name was never discovered, so his name became Hoofs.
Also the religious betters don't have to sin (more) by betting on
the devils child.

[dCepT]

Update above... posted my final..

Good lookin' out ya'll! I'll post comments later on.

peace

d-C

[JakkaS]

ThrillzillA - Interesting idea and the back-story.

[Define.]

Cool, it's a useful program, but as with most things it takes quite awhile to learn. I'm always finding better ways to do things.

As for rendering, it depends what type of fabric you're wanting to assimilate, but for starters I'd suggest choosing a darker/lighter colour (of similar hue) to paint shadows etc instead of a low opacity black/white or the dodge/burn tool. It may also be easiest to add textures after the basic form is rendered.

I can't wait for next week's challenge to try new stuff. thanks for the tips!


I'm loving these entries, going to be a tough round!

[Exocentric]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i303/pancakeofwrath/Exocentric_CHoW31_Non_Spanish_Torea.jpg

Arctic toreador, living in the frost bitten wastlelands, his duties are simple, protect the tribe. His job is as simple as that, fending off all manner of creatures, namely the enormous snow bull, who has a history of trampling villages.

Sorry, not enough time for a thurough story.
A little sloppy this week, but all the same I'd really appreciate any critiques I can get...i need to learn to paint like you guys...wow.

[GriNGo]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v197/GriNGoLoCO/conceptart/Gringoloco_CHOW31_Subutai.jpg

History of Subutai (Mongol) Toreadors

After the death of Ogedei Khan in December of 1241, Commaneder Subutai refused orders to return to the capital in the east to be present in the debates concerning the election of the new emperor. Instead he decided to maintain & execute his plans on conquering Germania, Hispania and the rest of Europe. Commander Batu returned to the east to the meetings, but left the majority of his armies under Subutai's command. Just 2 years later, most of Europe was under total Mongol control. After learning about the feat, Batu Khan awareded Subutai the title of "Prince of the West". In spite of initial uncertainties, Subutai turned out to be a charismatic and fair ruler, unlike many of europe's former leaders. He delighted in every culture, religions and customs the west offered, and marveled at the wonderous regions that were now part of the Great Mongolia. As years passed, he turned from battles to traveling and discovering the new territories. Never the less, his thirst for military & honest joyful battle had to be quenched in some way. Thus, upong his travelings in the Asturias region of Hispania, he discovered the ancient tradition of bullfighting, and immediatly felt recognized with it. Contrary to the local beliefs, Subutai sustained that in order to prove a man's valor, he must demonstrate single-handlely his wits & superiority over the bull. The Hispania tradition involved the help of other participants who softened the bull in the transcourse of the ceremony. To prove his purpose, Subutai entered the ring with cape, bow, arrows and "estocada" in hand. After a long and tenous battle, and despite his age and a severe arm wound caused by a successful goring attempt by the bull, Subutai managed to kill the proud animal. Afterwards, he then dedicated the remaining six years of his life in the perfection and promotion of his version of this ancient tradition, which came to be known as "Subutai Bullfighting".

Subutai Bullfighting is reserved for the best warriors of the Great Mongolia, with no differences put out between peoples or cultures. They must have proven a lifetime of dedication to the empire. The beasts selected come from the wild Khan Tumen Reserve in southern Hispania, and have no more than a week of capture to ensure their ferociousness and nature. To kill or be killed in the ring is considered the ultimate honor & many men train their entire lives focused on being able to prove themselves in this event against nature itself.

[Define.]

Awesome entry Gringo!! love the style.

[Landauart]

Wow this weeks concepts are awesome.

Also thanks to everybody for their suggestions and critiques.


Since I myself have a long way to go before I consider myself a good artist I will only say nice things to everybody.

Rawwad- Sick Concept. Love how you rendered it . Very Clean.

Artiphats- Great Start.

Define- Baby got Back

Dcept-Freaking Awesome. Love your style man

The Gnoll- Awesome Concept, Love it. Very Original

Thrillzilla-Freaking Crazy. Its awesome.

Landauart- Give it up and go work at Walmart.

Flex Mathews- Awesome. Love the level of detail and the realism. Your character bio is awesome.

PsychoVoodo- Love what you have so far

Pixeldragon- can't wait to see it finished.

Shamigan- I love this one. You have my vote so far. Your Concept is off the hook and I love how you rendered it.

Sept13- looks good man- i would have liked to see a little more detail instead of shadow but it fits the mood.

Corbeledg- Hope to see something you spend more time on.

Cognition. Love it. The rendering is awesome. concept is great. One bad ass chick.

Hookswords- Like the concept. just needs more touching up

[speculart]

http://dudleybirch.com/sijun/speculart-matador.jpg
On his first day on the job Ernie fell for the oldest trick in the book, send the new boy out with a cow.