Creature Design process 101

[Mike Corriero]

Creature Design Process 101 :

This activity will be set up similar to an Artist/Client relationship to simulate real world freelance industry job experience. The reason for this thread is to prepare you for the business world of a concept artist, to improve your designing skills, to provide a client relationship experience and to boost your portfolio. You will be asked to stick to a schedule and the details of the topic for each activity which may be based on video game or film related designs.
When dealing with a client, you are often asked to produce preliminary rough sketches to relate as many ideas as possible with as little effort as possible before moving on to a final design. It’s customary for a concept artist to provide the client with a page of rough thumbnail sketches. This will be the first step of this activity and the most important step. I will expect that the thumbnails stick to the guidelines and design brief as well as promote as much originality and creativity as you can while sticking to the limitations of the brief.
Once the thumbnails are completed, please post a number next to each one so that they can be clearly identified individually. The thumbnail sketches should be no larger than approx. 1 x 2 inches with just enough detail and form to illustrate the idea clearly.

Topic Brief: Video Game Design - Next gen consoles
Title: Triple Falls
Triple Falls is a vast third person video game title based in a modern fantasy era, so elements such as houses, industrial plants, vehicles, advanced weaponry and magic will be involved in this world. This should be kept in mind when designing your creature so that the style will fit the theme of the game.
The look and feel of this title will be colorful and exaggerated with the use of low poly models, so try to keep the amount of individual segments to a minimum: ie; ( lots of limbs, small hairs, separated fingers. ) Keep in mind that the amount of bones used to rig the creature and it’s animations will also have to be limited to approx 12-18 segments, try to design around the fact that animation will be limited to rotation of the shoulder, moving the arm up and down and flexing wrist and rotating the waist side to side and bending over up and down and bending the neck etc. Exaggerating things like the size of the muscles, facial features and details is what were going for here since we want a very stylized fun looking game, not so much realistic or extremely detailed.

Creature description:
Name: Waterlope
This creature should resemble an antelope but remember to keep the features exaggerated and stylized. The Waterlope is an amphibious creature used as a mountable beast by halfling races. This creature should be in the realm of a hippocampus with both mammal and amphibian characteristics. Try to keep it original, exaggerated, and unique rather than just combining an antelope & fish body. This creatures animations will be limited to a gallop/run/swim movement, a jumping movement and grazing movement, they will not be a dangerous species, but rather a more beautiful and exotic creature. Think of some colorful amphibians such as salamanders, frogs, and tropical fish. Since the creature will be mountable, it is up to you whether or not the creature design warrants a saddle. Keep in mind though that the saddle should not be too complex since that would eat up the poly's. A possibility for the saddle would be to create natural protrusions out from the animals back which would save time in modeling and texture mapping. The time era should also be evident in the design if possible. The animals skeletal structure is open for possibilities so it is not necessary for it to have two or four or six limbs, it’s up to you.
As far as the design is concerned, try to push the limits of creativity, I'd rather not see your average hippocampus or antelope, and remember this design should be exaggerated. If you happen to bend the rules of the creature description a bit, you can get away with it as long as the design is interesting and still resembles the overall idea. You have to remember that making the client happy is the most important thing, but I also want you guys to design what YOU would like to see in a game like this, so push your imaginations.

Details & other Information:

Hippocampus reference links:
Hippocampus photo 1 (http://www.egilkison.com/IMAGES/Art/hippocampus.jpg)
Hippocampus photo 2 (http://www.magma.ca/~watsondn/images/wsm116_b.jpg)
Hippocampus Photo 3 (http://kuruski.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/hippocampus.jpg.w300h218.jpg)

Antelope reference links:
I think the Pronghorn Antelope is a good basis for reference for the Waterlope
Antelope photo 1 (http://www.antelope.org/images/antelope.jpg)
Antelope Photo 2 (http://www.rusinga.com/images/photos_fullsize/Roan%20Antelope.jpg)
Antelope photo 3 (http://www.ccjonesphotos.com/PS%20svga/images/Male%20Sable%20Antelope.jpg)
Antelope Photo 4 (http://www.bgwildlife.com/graphics/antelope.jpg)
Antelope Photo 5 (http://www.mccullagh.org/db9/10d-17/impala-antelope-2.jpg)
Antelope Photo 6 (http://www.scsc.k12.ar.us/1999outwest/members/warnockJ/Pronghorn%20buck%20Ulrich.jpg)
Antelope Photo 7 (http://www.jekoz.net/Wildlife/pronghorn.jpg)
Antelope Photo 8 (http://hometown.aol.com/jbraum/images/photo0040-pronghorn.jpg)
Antelope Photo 9 (http://www.tarpits.org/education/guide/art/page14a.jpg)

Schedule:
You will have approx. 11 days from start to finish. You will only be permitted to move on to the next step after you have been given approval of a sketch by me. Each step should be completed by or before the deadline. I am based on USA, East Coast so the time zone will be GMT Eastern Standard Time: New York, that only applies to anyone who would be a day ahead or behind. It's not completely necessary but just incase.
Time Zone definitions (http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/)
Step 1: Due Dec. 6th : 10 thumbnail sketches
10 rough 1 x 2 inch thumbnail sketches presenting variations in overall concept design. They should be presented in b&w on an 8 x 12 sheet of paper and individually numbered one through ten. They can be digital or pencil sketches.
Step 2: Due Dec. 9th : 3 rough color variations
Once a thumbnail design Is approved, design 3 variations based off of comments given by myself. These should be a little more detailed than the thumbnails and they should be presented in color. The color does not need to be detailed, just enough to get the general idea across. These should be numbered one through three.
Step 3: Due Dec. 12th : 1 honed drawing posed
Based on comments and the approved version of step 2 you should present a cleaned up detailed drawing of the creature design.
Step 4: Due Dec. 17th : Final color design
Based on comments given and the approved hone drawing, make any necessary changes and present the final detailed color version on a white background - Shadows and minimal texture or colored backgrounds are acceptable but should not take away from the creature design.

If you have any questions, concerns or comments feel free to post them here. You guys are more than welcome to post helpful suggestions for one another but I will be playing the role of “Client/Art Director” so I will have the final say and approval for each step in this design process. This is a basic introduction into how a freelance job might be handled. If you do not meet the deadlines for any reason you will be dropped from the activity. There will be no exceptions since if this were a real job and you were bound to a contract, you would not get a second chance. I will be strict about this and I’m sorry if it sounds harsh but this is to teach people how to be professional and meet deadlines.

Participants:
The list:
1: Avatar<---added last minute
2:Gloominati
3:Inkfish
4:Floris Didden
5: PHATandy
6:MindCandyMan
7:Evil_Sloth
8:dCept
9:Interceptor
10:ngnorden
11:Craig D
12: Scumgrinder
13: Profil

If you are going to back out and you know ahead of time, please let me know so I can fill a spot incase someone else is interested.

[scumgrinder]

could you give us the sizes in pixels and dpi? because hosting the files could be an issue if the sizes are too large

[Mike Corriero]

When presenting steps 1-2 the size should be approx 8 x 12 or 12 x 8 ( 1200 x 1800 or 1800 x 1200 pixels) and can be at either 150 res. or 300 res.

When you present the final design though it should be at least (2400 x 3600 or 3600 x 2400 pixels) at 300 resolution. The standard size for detailed clear printable images is at 300 res. and approx 3000 pixels as a minimum. It's up to you though, depending on what your machine can handle, but those sizes are the best optimized for printing professional work in my opinion.

edit: When saving images for web, they should be at 72 dpi and approx. 8 x 12 inches ( 850-1100 pixels should be fine), the final images can be larger if you like.

[dCepT]

Good stuff, Mike! Very detailed description! Makes it easier to relate to the stuff we're gonna create.

*goes off to do thumbnails*

peace

d-C

[scumgrinder]

how are we presenting them? obviously for online purposes they have to be optimized to 72 dpi. what about the original large files with the requirements you ask for? Should we send them to you?



Also just to get this right: step one requires 10 concepts in a single image, and the image has to be 1200 x 1800 and black and white. right?

ARgh: i just saw your edit

[Mike Corriero]

Scum - yea, as far as presenting the files, it's best if you guys host them yourselves. If you have an issue with that, you can e-mail me the saved for web file and I'll host it on ca.org's server. [email protected]
The larger files though should be kept for yourself for portfolio purposes, so they can be at whatever size you like really.
edit: This thread is for the learning process so post the images whenever you finish them, but make sure you post what is due before or on the deadline. I may make a Final image thread once everything is finished if you guys would like. I also may make a logo based off of the thumbnails and or final honed drawings if you guys give me permission to do so. It would be the main logo for the activity if this continues on to other rounds.

[Red_Rook]

yay all cool, ive heard wha can help aswell is references to current games and their styles and umber of polygons, are we think in world of warcraft type terms here? and just to make it clear, "modern fantasy era" would be, current level of technology with fantasie elements thrown in? Alright this will be interesting :)

[Mike Corriero]

Red Rook@- Yes a perfect example of the poly's and exaggerated style would be world of warcraft. Think of this creature as fitting in with that genre of games and you'll be on target.

Modern Fantasy era = Modern day technology mixed with Fantasy elements. Basically if you took NYC threw in some creatures, cultural references from around the world and elements of magic and creatures that's the style this creature should fit in. So creatures walking around with modern horse saddles, a character dressed in a college students clothing with a blue glowing sword and floating modern buildings and skyscrapers surrounding them all with an exaggerated stylized look would fit into this category.

Edit: On a side note; Texture mapping and Bump maps will make up the majority of minor details so keep the overall designs low-key sticking within the limits of low poly models but remember that bump maps will take care of minor textures like scales, grooves in the skin, skin textures as well as minor protrusions and details in the face and other similar areas.

Style, exaggerations, low poly references:
World of Warcraft 1 (http://www.the-nextlevel.com/previews/pc/world-warcraft/world-of-warcraft-j.jpg)
World of Warcraft 2 (http://image.blog.livedoor.jp/ryuo/imgs/c/d/cd0169e7.jpg)
World of Warcraft 3 (http://www.wowzard.com/attachments/screenshot/Orc%20Male02.jpg)
Low poly model wireframe references:
Low Poly 1 (http://files2.turbosquid.com/Preview/Content_on_7_1_2004_14_45_59/gree_shot01.jpge74bba05-f3b8-401c-9760-3d994dd00c03Large.jpg) Texture maps and Bump maps make up this guys chest and six pack adding depth without having to actually model it. Hope that's clear
Low Poly Wire frame (http://blondfro.com/images/low_Poly_creature002_full_Wire.jpg)
Low Poly Wire Frame (http://www.web3dservice.com/3D/real_time/tiger_3d_model.jpg)
Low Poly Wire frame (http://files.turbosquid.com/Preview/Content_on_8_29_2004_07_17_32/nordic_deer1.jpgcf893b8c-6c60-4815-80d1-893b524e296bLarge.jpg)

[Mike Corriero]

Wire frame stretch test, animation test on the movement of the bones of a low poly model.
Check out the AVI animation at the bottom of this page
rigging joints and skeleton (http://accad.osu.edu/~fkalal/753/hw3/hw.html)
Rigging Joints
This site explains pretty clearly about the rigging of joints and the skeleton of a low poly model.

[Interceptor]

Mike, I'm curious about the tone of the game. Is it a more serious type of game? Or something whimsical? What's the target audience?

And does the creature fully submerge itself or does it tread water?

-Loren

[Mike Corriero]

The Game is meant to be colorful, fun, exaggerated styles, it's meant to portray serious story lines in some scenarios with emotional dramatic music and vast eye opening scenes. The overall feeling would be the equivalent of "Monsters Inc." and "What Dreams May Come" oddly enough ;)
Don't get toooo worried about those kind of things. Just base the thumbnail ideas off of the brief, and I'll direct you guys toward the best suited designs for this topic. I will provide more info and such as we go along, which is often how clients handle things. Half the time most of them don't even have a 50% clue as to what they want and the descriptions are rather vague.

So just go with it..have fun, and hopefully we'll all learn something from this.

Edit: The creature would/could be meant for both land and water. Think of it in terms of an amphibian. It will have traits of water animals as well as land mammals... it's your choice and your job though to present ideas to me, to sell your designs. You have the freedom to make suggestions with these thumbnails such as suggesting that the creature swims while being fully submerged and never leaves the water, or that it only uses water to tread on top of and spends more time on rocks and land. The basis of step one is to experiment.

[MindCandyMan]

cool idea...just wanted to let you know I know about the thread...just found it today...thanks for makin sure we knew!

[Floris Didden]

Cool, just found the thread. I'll get started asap.

EDIT: quick question, do we have to keep in mind the point of view of the player, wether he will be viewing the model from topdown RTS like, or from behind while he rides it, for example?

[PHATandy]

Awesome Mike, I found there thread. Im In. And working on some stuff now :)

Can we work like slightly ahead of schedule.. so get to the bits and pieces before the deadline. Because i might have some thing coming up like next week.. and be busy. So can i work on it now (while iu have the time) then jump in to finish before the deadlines. Ie. Get onto say the 3 colour drawings etc. as fast as possible :), im gonna have lots of free time this weekend.

Hopefully ill be bale to do it anyways, but just incase :)

[Mike Corriero]

Floris Didden@ - Yes, it will be a 3rd person view which are almost always shown from behind and just above the player, which means you will see your characters whole body and about 5 feet above him/her as a slightly overhead view. So keep that in mind when designing the Creature, that's part of the reason for exaggerations. This creature might be a possible mountable creature for both the player and just as an in-game background extra. So the creature will need to look interesting from all angles, and if he were viewed from the back overhead he would need to look interesting enough and identifiable as well.
We'll get into that a bit more once the sketches start to get posted.

PHATandy@- Yes, you can submit the thumbnails as soon as you finish them and once you get approval and comments from me you can move on to the next step. You can work at your own pace as long as your finishing before the deadlines, just don't RUSH it too much because this should come out as best as possible in order to be used as a portfolio piece.

edit: btw thanks MindCandyMan, Floris Didden and PHATandy for letting me know your aware of the thread. If anyone can contact the remaining 3 people on the list please do, or at least let me know if they are aware this activity has been posted.

[PHATandy]

OK awesome, thanks Mike..

IM doing some thumbies now (procrastination of homework is good right ? :P)
But jees... coming up with like 10 really cool varied ideas is way harder than it seems.....

[Mike Corriero]

PHATandy@- Try thinking of things like amounts of legs, types of legs, lengths of neck and horns, no horns, 3 horns, long horns, varied shapes of horns, length of face and type of body, size of exaggerated areas, how it moves etc. You can look at references other than what I posted to help you come up with ideas, so take a look at other types of animals but just try to stick to the basics of the brief ;)

[vigostar]

hey mike is this going to be an ongoing thing?

[bdfoster]

And is it going to open up to more people? I can only assume, since the first post included a participant list, that this was felt out in a forum I rarely check, like the lounge...

Definitely sounds like a fun and interesting project.

[Mike Corriero]

Vigostar@- It depends, there is already a list for a second round set-up. It may not be on-going because I have a lot on my plate and a full schedule currently involving a freelance job that will be full time and possibly run until mid December and then another job lined up directly after that plus the Last Man Standing Thunderdome on top of this activity now. I will keep it going as long as I can, but I couldn't say whether there would be a third, fourth or fifth round.

Bdfoster@- Yea I apologize, I wish I could have allowed over 30 people at once but it would be hard to keep everyone on track, to comment on every individuals sketches and to answer all their questions. I actually limited round 2 to 8 people which is already full, but if people back out I will fill the open spots with reserves. I posted it in the lounge because usually that's where it would have gotten the most exposure, but it's also the only place I could have really discussed the idea before actually implementing it. If you would like to be on a reserve list for round 1 or 2, let me know.. and if nothing opened up I would add you as a possible participant to round 3 if that occurs.

[Mike Corriero]

The schedule deadline for the "Final color design" step 4 has been extended by an extra 2 days so that the Final can look as good as possible. I really want these to be top quality designs, plus I want to make sure that the Honed drawing critiques and comments are finalized and that you guys would have enough time to work on the render/paint/colored version and really polish up any flaws.

[Craig D]

deadline extensions are one of my favorite things in life.

Mike, you mentioned you posting some example thumbs to indicate level of detail etc. Are you still thinking of doing this? (please)

Craig

[bdfoster]

Mike--

A lot depends on timing of the rounds and whatnot, but I'm certainly interested. Thanks for the feedback.

It's funny you talk about exposuer in the lounge. That's one of the few places on these forums that I hardly ever go. I guess it's the lack of relevance for a lot of stuff to what I want, but I guess I'm in the minority!

Keep me on the back burner if you have any openings.

[scumgrinder]

hey mike, are sketches like these acceptable or are they too rough?
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a232/scumgrinder/test.jpg

[PHATandy]

wow... they look sexy scumgrinder. Dont wanna post my lame ones now :(

anyways... Heres my stuff... Ill update this thread with my thumbnails.


ADDED FURTHER DOWN

- EDIT : i forgot the numbers etc. Ill add them when ive done all of them. Illl put like descriptions etc if u want em aswell.

[Profil]

Im here, better get crackin at those.

[Mike Corriero]

deadline extensions are one of my favorite things in life.

Mike, you mentioned you posting some example thumbs to indicate level of detail etc. Are you still thinking of doing this? (please)

Craig
I will really try yo actually participate in this myself, especially the first round so that people get the idea of what I have in mind. I'll have to see when I can get around to the thumbnails as quick as possible, maybe at least just to post 2 for an example. I'm kind of booked with actual work so I'm trying to fit this activity in with any spare time I have.

Bdfoster- cool OK

Scumgrinder@- yes the quality of details is OK, perhaps suggesting a bit more might help to better illustrate the ideas but this is pretty good for a start. When you guys post the thumbnails, they should probably be half this size, and Numbered, fitting all 10 at once on an 8 x 12 sized file at 72 dpi.

Make sure each has a number next to them.

PHATandy@- Interesting ideas for a start. Like I mentioned to Scumgrinder, post the thumbnails at about half this size, with the numbers next to each all 10 at once on one sheet at approx 8 x 12 at 72 dpi. Don't post descriptions on the sheet with the drawings, but if you have ideas and suggestions or comments about some of your designs, post the comments separate below the image like so:
#1: I was going for a design with larger horns
#2: I think this one would look interesting if he had 4 fins instead of feet
etc.

[scumgrinder]

ok so here are my thumbnails:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a232/scumgrinder/thumbs.jpg

[Mike Corriero]

Nice Work Scumgrinder
I'll post critiques and comments tomorrow/today since it's almost 6 a.m. here and I haven't slept yet :^^;:
I was working up my 10 thumbnails so people would get an idea where I was looking to head with the first step.
I will provide comments for your thumbnails, as well as choose the one that will be taken to step two and give you some suggestions and advice on that specific design chosen, so that you can produce the 3 rough color variations.

http://pratt.edu/~mcorrier/Projects/waterlope_thumbnails.jpg
Making the thumbnails clean, presentable, labeled individually with numbers and evenly spaced will help to show professionalism when dealing with a client. It just makes it more presentable and easier for them to view the designs.

This really isn't about me; so it's not important but if you guys like, you can feel free to suggest which thumbnail I should continue with. I will only really be doing this to motivate people, and to demonstrate how it should/could be handled in a professional manner.

[brokk]

scumgrinder: I like the shapes of 8 and 7, would love to see more detailed versions.
PHATandy: I like 1 and 4 ( ? ) with the orca pattern. You could push the contrast a little, add numbers, and use the page format requested.
MIKECORRIERO: I like 8 and 9, but I would go with 10, because of the more horizontal shape of the creature, and practical saddle. I would change the horns though, use the horns of 8 or 9.

I hope it was allright to post that :^^;:
Just my thoughts

[MindCandyMan]

Thanks mike that helps alot with the idea of how to go about the thumbnails...we thought of some of the same ideas...yours look much better though haha...number one all the way...that's my pick at least

[PHATandy]

Awesome, i like both scumgrinders and mikes, you thumbs are cool.

Ill shrink em up and put them all together though. 1 thing i find hard though is getting them all on a nice white background. When i change contrast and so on, i end up with horrible spots and shit appearing (smudges and all that crap). Ill try going over with a darker pencil line (maybe black fineliner ?) and maybe some small shading.
Ill work on the presentation a little more. I can see how it needs to be done but often i find it hard to make sketches look presentable etc.

Ill finish up my designs, add some stuff more detail (although there thumbnails i still dont like em :( )

Ill update soon.

[brokk]

PHATandy, I adjusted a little the contrast of one of your images, no smudges or major marks showed up... only a few little dots that you can touch up with the brush tool.

http://usera.imagecave.com/bk7600/creature101thumb1c.jpg

[Mike Corriero]

Scumgrinder@- I really like the ideas and style of 3,4,7,8 and 9
I like 7 because I can imagine him with legs similar to a seal, but maybe their a bit more sturdy and allow him to actually Stand on two feet, but when he enters the water, he can use them as flippers and maneuver easily through the water. It would be really cool to see him moving about like a seal rather quickly in the water and as he heads toward the shore he quickly goes from a swim to a run - kind of like a hover craft in some respects.

Number 7 gets my approval. I'd like to see you try some variations on his design possibly mixing in some of the ideas you have going on with number 3, with multiple horns. Also try working out ideas similar to what I mentioned about the flipper/feet and maybe some variations of the tail being more useful when the creature would be in swim mode. Maybe his body could bend downward a bit more, so his forelimbs touch the ground when he's resting on land.

So now move on to the second step, keeping in mind my suggestions. Start to focus more on refining his characteristics and details, show me some variations but don't stray too far from number 7's overall appearance. Show me 3 variations with some rough color presenting ideas of spots, stripes, designs in coloration of skin etc.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Broken_Spirit@- Yes, it's perfectly fine for you guys to help each other out and post comments about each others work. Just remember though guys that I'll give the approval for each step so don't go forward with a design that someone else picks out ;) but keep in mind their critiques and suggestions. As for my own designs, I agree about 8 and 9, I also liked 1 but I'll have to make them a bit more practical for maneuvering and mount-ability like sketch 10. Thanks for the feedback Broken

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

MindCandyMan@- No problem, I figured I better post something just so you guys could see the size of the thumbnails, variation of ideas, and how to present them. I also liked number 1 because he was the most "far-out" as far as being different from the rest.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

PHATandy@- Just work out your thumbnails on paper or on the computer at a comfortable size, you can work out the sketches all on one sheet or each on individual sheets, whatever is easiest for you. The only thing that counts is when you present the work to the client. Scan each sketch in, in Photoshop you can cut and paste each on its own layer, use the brightness/contrast options to adjust the levels and get rid of any gray lines or smudges lines. You should also go in and erase any excess smudging or gray lines when necessary. Something else you can do to get rid of the grey is by using the "replace color" option and clicking on the grey, then changing the brightness to make it white. When each sketch is on its own layer, you can use the multiply layer option to help get rid of the white so each sketch can be placed closer to the other without the white paper overlapping. I hope that helps.

[Inkfish]

Here are some sketches, i've finished today. I'd like to know if i am going to a right direction with theese...

too loose?
needs more exaggeration?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/inkfish/sketches1-10-WEB1.jpg

[redehlert]

what fun!
be interesting to see and understand how this will all play out.
i agree, mike - scum's #7 was my fav too.
have fun all, can't wait to see em all.
cheers,
d

[Mike Corriero]

Inkfish@- Yea a "bit" more exaggeration and exotic quality will help. It might be better to "over-step" the exaggeration than under-step it. In my designs I even underplayed the exaggeration but will work it out in step 2. So just continue on with the remaining thumbnails and then I'll give you a crit.
Number 5 right now I would say is a ways away from the design brief, looking a little too threatening and insect-like, other than that I'll wait for the rest before commenting so I don't interrupt your personal design sense for the initial step.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Something to remember guys is to bring your own unique styles and design sense to these concepts. This is something that happens to a lot of people myself included where.. you kind of hold back from being unique and as creative as you can be because you feel like you need to be so confined to the topic that you will put limitations on "yourself". Just try to have fun ;) and don't forget that looking at images of exotic fish, amphibians, other types of antelope will really help to give you ideas.

[MindCandyMan]

***Image Reposted Later in Thread****

Never done anything like this before so I will take all the help and critiques you can offer hehe. Thanks again for doing this Mike this is really really great and it gives us a real handle on what to expect in the future. Thanks! So what are the real timelines that are given?...cause I know you've given us a break haha.

[Mike Corriero]

Hey Mindcandyman@- Looking really good, nice variations and ideas - do me a favor and just repost it with numbers next to each so I can easily comment on them and choose the one that will be approved.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
about the deadline - yes I gave you guys a whole shiiiit loooad of time more than you really get for this kind of project. To give you an idea basically right now I'm working on a job doing 3-4 rough sketches for each creature design that are approx 5 x 8 inches big and some in color, and continuing to refine and change things based on the clients suggestions and mark-ups. I then have to create a honed color version as well as black and white ortho views ( front, side, back ) for a total of 13 creatures. To kind of put it in perspective I have to have done all of those pretty much in the same amount of time I'm giving you guys for this 1 creature concept ;)

[Mike Corriero]

When I find some time I will actually produce the 3 variations based off of one of these thumbnail sketches but I was just playing around with some quick color to get an idea where this could head.
You guys all have 5 days from this point to get your 10 thumbnails in. It seems that ngnorden is the only one that doesn't know this has started yet, seeing as I can't pm anyone I hope he finds this.
http://pratt.edu/~mcorrier/Projects/waterlope_thumbnail_color.jpg

[brokk]

Mike, I just wanted to know if I could ask a few quick questions,

When you take the thumbnails to larger versions like these last ones, do you generally redraw the concept, or work on the enlarged thumnail version?

Same question for the final drawing, do you preffer working on an enlarged thumnail, or making a new drawing?

Sorry if my comments before were a bit out of line :^^;: , I'll try to focus more on crits/comments instead of picking designs.

[Mike Corriero]

broken_spirit@- You weren't out of line, just wanted to make sure no one was going to go ahead with a design that was not approved.

What I posted were just the thumbnails enlarged but what I expect for step 2 are 3 variation drawings of the thumbnail approved. So I would expect them to be different drawings. I was just posting an example of some rough color.
The rough color can either be done like I posted as an example underneath the line work or they can be in the form of a speed paint without any line work.
Generally if the client likes a design and don't want a whole lot of changes I would just take the existing sketch and alter it such as; changing the design of the horns or length of the tail etc. If the client wants to see 3 completely new designs BASED off of the thumbnail sketch, then you would have to make a new drawing. Things like this are best done on the computer which is why keeping the initial concept black and white and is the easiest way to go since you can make changes in Photoshop without having to completely redraw the whole thing.
When we get to step 3: The Honed Drawing, you will be finalizing your design and color on top of that image.

[brokk]

Oh, ok. Can't wait to see all the process steps and the final images. Thank you for the in-depth reply and for running this activity, I cant wait to get started : )

[I.was.ink]

Mike this is an awesome little project you've got goin on here and even though I'm not one of the particicipants, it's cool to sort of sit back and take a look at how this progresses.
If I were to choose my top two from your sketches, I'd choose #1 and #9.

Keep up the enthusiasm and the good work.
-ink

[MindCandyMan]

http://www.mindcandyman.com/jons_uploads/creature_designs101.jpg


Man I can't even follow directions...thought I remembered everything bleh. I would have lost that job hehe...good lesson for the real world.

[redehlert]

Sweet conceps MCM!

MikeC - this was a great idea to do....bravo man!

Cheers,
D

[romance]

This is awsome. Where do I sign up?

-Rob

[Craig D]

Rob,
check out the thread in the Lounge under the same name as this one for details. (Activity is full right now)
Nice to see another Edmontonian here.
Craig

[romance]

Thanks Craig D

[Steph Laberis]

Oh god oh god oh god THANK YOU for doing this Mike, I'm foaming at the mouth to take on the next assignment!

A lot of these are similar from all of the assignment restrictions, but I am seeing some really innovative answers to the assignment as well. I'll say more when I have time to really sit and look at these properly!

[Inkfish]

okay, just finished all of them. i decided to get rid of original number 5. I hope theese will do.

Thanks again for devoting your time for this activity Mike!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/inkfish/sketches1-10.jpg

[Mike Corriero]

MindCandyMan@- You had some nice ideas going on here, I felt that number 5 will be the best suited since he had the most "character" and a lovable feel about him. I liked his pudgy look and exaggerated style.
When you move on the second step, try some variations with him like different horns, and different size in proportions of how fat he is, or how big his tail is compared to his head, maybe play around with the length of his nose or size of the eyes. If something strikes you as interesting and might drastically change the design, go with your instincts just don't stray "too" far from what was approved.
Play around with some rough exotic color ideas as well so you can get a good feel for what will suit this creature. You have some time before the deadline for the second step, so take your time with it ;)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Mike Corriero]

Inkfish@- If I remember my roman numerals correctly ;) Number 7 is by far the best design here suited for the topic.
Remember we want him to have the possibility as a mountable creature for this game, so the back fins may have to either be moved forward a little or moved back or removed altogether.
Try some variations in fins, and colors with interesting stripe or spot patterns or anything that comes to mind. Maybe play around with his skin texture, to let us know if its bumpy like a toad, or sleek and shiny like a fish.Edit: On a side note, try to add in a bit more of that antelope characteristic, such as the facial feature of a pronghorn or the horns.
Nice work
Move on to step 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

[PHATandy]

OK so heres mine, glad i got em done. And from what i said before im impressed with how these came out for me. They looks nice all sorted out and penned in. alot clearer.

http://www.andydesign.co.uk/best/waterlope1.jpg

1. Antennae on its head + Thinking this can only go underwater (looks it anyways).
2. Webbed feet - mostly fast on land.
3. Sort of like a big water buffalo. Big legs etc. Good for swimming.
4. Like a proper amphibian. think lizard.
5. Sleek - fast underwater (not sure about above land)
6. Funky design says it all.
7. Linked/Webbed legs for swimming. - thinking of a plate/armor like saddle (for battle/fighting- old school stuff)
8.Hardened shell like skin.
9. More futuristic saddle/kit. Mostly land based - big tail for swimmin.
10. Think lapras from pokemon - swims on the surface.

For all of them - not sure about saddle type (old school, normal or futuristic). And then say body paints or scales or skin types. Maybe tattoo type things for the race of the rider etc.

Anyways, its late - Ill start on the next 3 after school tomorrow (if you choose by then Mike :P )

Thx, Andy

[Mike Corriero]

PHATandy@- I liked number 5 from the start and I still like him the best, I think he has the most potential. Like I mentioned to a couple other people already, perhaps move his back fin..back further, to keep in mind that a character can mount him.
I think what I'd like to see from you for the 3 color variations on thumbnail number 5 are some minor additions to this existing design. Try making larger ears and more apparent like an antelope, to me it looks like your design has 3 horns, if so, I like that.. if not try to incorporate the third horn as coming off the bridge of his nose and extending up the forehead and out from the top of his skull.
I think that I'd like to make it possible for this guy to have some capability of maneuvering on land so try out perhaps 8 small legs, or flippers so he can kind of wobble along like a seal in some respects. Also work out something interesting and exotic with the tail. Adding a saddle would be cool, but if he's going to possibly have 8 legs and a complex exotic tail or something, it might be pushing the poly's to create a detailed saddle. If you want to add one it's fine, maybe try thinking of something simple in shape and design. He could just be ridden bare back, since this creature would be ridden by half-ling races most likely.
I like how in the one design you tried to incorporate some technology/future items with the saddle but it was pushed a little too far in the future, since this is rather a modern time era in an alternate universe with fantasy themes
5 gets approval - keep in mind everything I said for the 3 variations.
Move on to the next step

[Mike Corriero]

By the way - The squiggly arrow was just me pointing out how he might possibly swim.

[Mike Corriero]

Just to let you guys know
Time does count for a lot when dealing with a job like this. I'm being pretty lenient with the deadlines by giving you a lot of time, but in the real world the artist who are producing great work quicker than all the others would no doubt always get the job over the rest of his competitors.
Now, I'm giving you guys time because this is a learning process and not an actual job but like I mentioned in my response to MindCandyMan, normally you would probably have less than half the time I'm allowing for a simple job like this.
I don't want you guys to rush these too much but just letting you know that speed counts for a lot especially when your capable of keeping the professional quality of the work up to par with the art of those people who take a week to produce one image. If I were a client I'd love to give someone a job like this and have seen them turn around all the thumbnails within the first 12 hours, and to finish a job like this within 1-2 days tops.
I dealt with a client who hired me hourly as well as 5 other artist to produce some backgrounds for a simple 2d style game similar to the original super Mario brothers, and the concepts would be used as in-game backgrounds. I produced artwork for the first 8 hours ( full day ) and then I was to wait until the other 5 artist submitted their first day of work before the client was going to move on and choose one of us to finish the work load.
That was over 4 weeks ago, and the client e-mailed me telling me that he still has not gotten all the work from the other artist, and that myself and one other guy were the only ones to have sent him all the work inside of the first couple days. The only reason I didn't produce the work in the "first" day was because I had the flu, but he told me he wants me to continue with more of the work now since none of the other artist finished.
So keeping yourself on track, on time and going the extra step to produce the work before the actual deadline will show the client your both excited and dedicated to getting the work they need done in a professional manner.

[BrainBug]

it's a bit late but here's a statue of what you guys are concepting:
img1 (http://www.indymedia.be/files/vliegend%20kalf.jpg)
img2 (http://www.lef-online.be/pics/fotos/Goudkoorts%20037%20(400%20x%20300).jpg)
img3 (http://www.lef-online.be/pics/fotos/Goudkoorts%20002%20(400%20x%20300).jpg)
img4 (http://www.indymedia.be/files/artist%20at%20work.jpg)

it's the "golden calf" by the Danish artist Jens Galschiot

[MindCandyMan]

So for the next three drawings mike you want color on them as well...just wanna make sure I give you the right thing. Color similar to what is on the previous page? Also how finished do you want the next three drawings?


EDIT: Brainbug - Whoa I just looked at those images...holy cow! That is exactly like what we are drawing...that thing is awesome. We could use it to draw from life heheh.

[Mike Corriero]

Brainbug - Interesting find. It does have a similar resemblance to some of the designs - odd although I think in the end most of these will look nothing like it.
MindCandyMan@- Rough Color- don't go rendering it out too much, just enough to get a general idea of the overall color scheme. It "CAN" be similar to my number 1 color example but The Designs have to be 3 variations of the thumbnail that was approved, I just colored on top of my original thumbs just to show an example of color.
Coloring underneath the sketch on a multiply layer is the quickest and easiest way to get an idea of the overall color and is also the easiest way to change color quickly.
The next 3 drawings should only be "slightly" more detailed. The main thing to focus on is honing any flaws like anatomy, and how legs bends, proportions, ideas etc. It's not extremely important that the details be a huge step up from the thumbnails. This is mainly just about providing some extra ideas on top of what the client likes and color helps to sell the concept.

Mike -

[dCepT]

Here are my thumbnails.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/dCepT/Assignements/Thumbsheet2.jpg

peace

d-C

[Mike Corriero]

Dcept@- you made it really hard to choose one ;)
I was torn between 3 and 8
I think I'd like to see number 3 developed more though since the leg designs with the fins and feet looked really interesting. He would also be quicker at running than number 8
I would say when you move on to step 2, to try out something in between 3 and 8 and develop the design of number 3 by trying different more exotic horns and perhaps bigger more exaggerated forward facing ears. I think the tail on number 3 is cool too, maybe you could exaggerate it a bit more, make it longer and curled more into a ball like a chameleon lizard.
Move on to step 2

[Mike Corriero]

Red_Rook
Gloominati
Floris Didden
Evil_Sloth
Interceptor
ngnorden <--- I have not yet heard from you on whether or not you know this has started.
Craig D
Profil

You guys have approx 3-4 days left, I would prefer that they be handed in within 3 days ;)

[Gloominati]

Red_Rook
Gloominati
Floris Didden
Evil_Sloth
Interceptor
ngnorden <--- I have not yet heard from you on whether or not you know this has started.
Craig D
Profil

You guys have approx 3-4 days left, I would prefer that they be handed in within 3 days ;)


yeah man, have just finished my thunderdome piece, that I have to hand in on monday, now I have got MUUUUUCH time for this activity!!

[Lee]

can i participate or is it to late or is there a registration process im not aware of

[Gloominati]

Holy cow, I hope that mine aren't too rough and funny-looking. Good work everyone!!

http://people.freenet.de/glominatisart/3-12-05(6).jpg

[4thAngle]

Is it too late to participate in this? I'd really love some practise and feel I can still meet the deadlines.
EDIT: Otherwise, I'd be happy to go on the list for a future topic.

Cheers

[PHATandy]

OK so here are my 3. Im gonna colour them in a bit.

Ill post em here if im happy with em, or if i need to make changes, just let me know mike, ill draw over my originals.

im not to sure though about these - if ive strayed to far from the original selected design by adding alot - or if this much variation is good at this stage.

Let me know what you think.

http://www.andydesign.co.uk/best/waterlope2.jpg

[Mike Corriero]

Lee@- Please refer to this thread http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=56818
, and you will find the answers to your questions. The activity for this round is closed and I'm not sure if there will be a round 2 or 3.

4thangel@- Please refer to this thread http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=56818
, and you will find the answers to your questions. The activity for this round is closed and I'm not sure if there will be a round 2 or 3.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gloominati@- I'm going to have you move ahead with number 7. I wanted to point some things out though. First off is when you present thumbnails, make sure their clearly presented, which means if they need to be defined, copy the layer and then choose multiply to bring out all the details and give them more contrast. Second, evenly space and label them with type face letters so I can easily read the letters, it took me a second to realize which letters were which and that you even numbered them ;)
The thumbnails that have a section circled are not defined enough. They do not indicate enough form or detail for me to even understand the concept and are too plain to warrant anything "exotic". So keep that in mind for next time. The thumbnails that have an X next to them just wouldn't even be accepted because they were way beyond rough, and it was hard for me to even understand the design,form or concept. If their not clear enough, then I can't assume what you have in mind ;) so next time make them a little more defined and clearer, but move on to round 2 for now. btw- number 1 & 4 were too similar in their pose and design that I would have only considered them to be 1 idea.
Now what I'd like to see you do with number 7 is wean yourself away from the duck billed platypus face. You can keep the beak but make it less identifiable as a platypus, show me something reminiscent in the design that would lead me to understand this has an antelopes genes. When you show me the next 3 variations, give me a better view of this guy, rather than a top down view. I'd like to see either a 3/4 view head on, or a side view for at least one of the variations in step 2.
Number 7 is approved. Move to step 2

[Gloominati]

Mike- Okay I am not happy with the results that turned out with this thumbnails. I know that I wouldn't get a seccond chance in a real job but since there are 3 days left to the deadline, let me do this part of the activity again, please. would that be okay??

[Mike Corriero]

PHATandy@- Here are some ideas, and mark-ups on your designs with the original approved thumbnail next to them.
On your number 1 design, I drew over a quick rough skeleton just so you guys keep in mind that this thing DOES have a skeleton even though it's going to be fictional.
The reason for the skeleton is because in both your number 1 and number 3 designs, the tail was bent to an extreme awkward position, so you can see in the skeleton how I just gave the tail a smoother curve, so that it looks and feels more natural.
In your number 2 design, I did a draw over to show you that you could exaggerate the side fin more, to make it stand out and to give it more of an interesting look. The tail wasn't grooving too well with the "exotic" feel so I made it more intricate. I also adjusted the fins and face a bit, and changed up the horns. It's not sooo different from what you presented but I think it has more appeal and interest to it now. So you don't have to draw what I just posted but keep in mind the crits and mark-ups/paint overs.
I think overall all 3 were a little too similar, so remember that as long as it has the same feel as the approved design, you can push the ideas a little further in the variation stage so that I have more options to choose from.

I hope that helps.

[Mike Corriero]

Gloominati- If your up to it, by all means go ahead, you still have time left before the deadline.
In an actual job I probably wouldn't do that only because you have to make sure your first impression impresses the client ;) don't feel too bad, it's a learning process. So if your up to redesign some of the thumbs or "all" of them, I would really respect that. If you don't have the time though, just move on with number 7.
I will crit your next round of thumbs if you decide to post a new set.

[Mike Corriero]

The deadline specific date for step 1 will be on Dec. 6th 5PM USA, NYC time
If you live in a different country or different coast of USA, just go back to page one and check the time zone definitions link I posted next to the schedule.

[PHATandy]

Do you want me to redraw these 3 out then and work on them more? (is ok with me i guess) or shall i just work on one of these of your choice.

Thanks alot for the draw over though, I would have never though about the skeleton. really makes me realise the misttakes in it. Ill work on them some tomorrow if need be then.

Thanks mike.

[Mike Corriero]

If you have the time and the means, please try to fix them up with some of the suggestions I posted. If nothing major, just fix the minor issues like the bad bends in the tails and if possible maybe adjust little things here or there.

If you seriously do not have the time, then go ahead with coloring them and then I will comment on the specifics of step 2 and critique each. You have until the 9th though just so you know ;)

[Gloominati]

hehe, time is relative, there is enough time left to do hundrets of thumbnails. Well it is later over here in Germany( right now it'S 10.30 PM) than in NYC, so I needn't be afraid that I show my results too late by mistake.
Okay cool, I will go right back drawing to show some acceptable thumbnails. I just wanna be happy with the stuff I do :D

[Evil_Sloth]

heres mine.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/Evil_Sloth/thumbnails0001.jpg

[Gloominati]

okay, as promised, here are my new thumbnails:

http://people.freenet.de/glominatisart/thumbs.jpg

[Mike Corriero]

Evil_Sloth@- I'd like to see you go with number 7
I think it would make more sense if the legs bent back and then forward similar to the back legs of an antelope. He would have the appearance of something that can run quicker, and I think it would look more natural. I really liked the head on number 3 so maybe try to keep that same characteristic and light-hearted face in the 3 variations for step 2. Some of these were heading away from the direction of exaggerated, exotic and fun, so try to think more about that and the idea of colorful when you move on to step 2.
Numbers 3, 7, 10 appealed to me the most, and I kinda liked the distinct difference of number 4 with how you gave him a hovercraft-like feeling.
Number 7 has approval- move to step 2

[Mastoid]

old user discard this

[Mike Corriero]

Gloominati@- The one that resembled the description the closest was number 3 so I'm going to have you move ahead with that one. I think I'd like to see a couple variations on the body though, maybe something similar to number 1's body.
A couple of these were geared too much toward other animals and didn't have enough features to show it was related to an antelope.
Number 1: Lizard/frog
Number 2: Hippo
Number 4: Turtle
Number 7: Frog
Those were some of the ones that resembled other animals more than the one described "antelope". Try breaking the description a client gives you down into sections. You can take specific words and place them on a sheet along with the name of the creature from the description to refer to while your drawing. This way you can keep better track of what the client wants, when they send you a large brief that might seem confusing.
For example:
Waterlope:
Exaggerated
Antelope
mammal
amphibian
beautiful
exotic

So take the advice I gave you, move forward with number 3 and have some fun with the 3 variations step. move to step 2

[ngnorden]

Hi Mike I just now found the thread by luck. ~1 day left... I'll do what I can

Dec 6th at 0 AM?

[Mike Corriero]

Dec. 6th 5PM
USA, NYC time - go to the first page of this thread and check the link provided in the first post. The Link says "time zone definitions". It will give you the direct NYC time so you'll know exactly what time it is where I'm at.

It's now Sunday Dec 4th at 3PM here in NYC so you have more than 1 day left

[imager777]

This looks interesting. I'd like to participate if possible. I'll start on it just in case.

[Mike Corriero]

Imager777- Your welcome to participate in this on your own time, but the only people this is Open to, for posting and receiving feedback and crits are the ones on the list on the first page, sorry.
There are already people who applied for a round 2 and 3, which may or may not take place. There is a thread located in the lounge with more info about signing up but I had also posted a request that no more participants pm me until I indicate an open round.

[imager777]

No prob., thanks for the quick response. I usually only check a couple forums around here, periodically; so I miss all this good stuff.

[Profil]

I'm afraid to post... lol but here they are:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a348/Profil_deluxe/designcreaturejpg.jpg

I really got frustrated because I couldn't come up with anything original, that's why some of the thumbnails plainly suck.
Let me know if they aren't passable.

[Mike Corriero]

Unless I somehow missed your thumbs, you guys on this list here still owe me 10 thumbs. You have until Dec. 6th 5PM USA,NYC time. check the first post for Time Zone Definitions to find out what time it is where I live.
Floris Didden
Interceptor
ngnorden
Craig D

One space opened up because someone had to drop out for personal reasons, something that was more important and I agree. However I don't think there's enough time to fill a slot with someone from round 2, because I can't PM people plus there is only approx 26 and a half hours left.


Profil <- I'll crit your thumbs as soon as possible.

[GhostofMacbeth]

MIKECORRIERO .. I just wanted to thank you for doing this .. It is very cool.

[Interceptor]

I have.. the utmost respect for creature artists now. This is the hardest thing I have ever done. I'm almost shamed to post mine in the company of everyone else's.. nevertheless.. I gave it my best, for a first attempt at drawing creatures..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/Gatery941/waterlope.jpg

[darth massacre]

Hey guys, wonderful job on the sketches. I'm really digging the design processes some of you guys show in the sketch form and there are good stuff even those that aren't approved.


It might not be an issue and I may be overly paranoid. Should the drawings come with a date+CA.org watermark? Not that it may happen, but in case someone decides to steal these concepts for their own.

[Mike Corriero]

GhostofMacbaeth@- don't mention it ;)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Profil@- Number 5 seems to me to be the most interesting. I also liked numbers 2 and 3 though which are along a similar route as number 5.
Number 5 has my approval.
As far as setting up the thumbnails in a presentable manner, I would say to make sure all of the designs are placed fully on the page - no cropping like the designs being cropped off page.
Also, try to make them cleaner and more defined and evenly spaced. Use typed numbers next to each so they can be easily identified and critiqued. Drawing the numbers is a bad idea, since some people have sloppy hand writing ;) also labeling the topic such as "creature design process 101" and the step: Thumbnails and name of the creature concept: waterlope help to just make things readable and presentable.
I think I like the idea of tentacles as back legs, and the head on number 5 seems pretty interesting. Try thinking about straps to hold the saddle on the beast that might wrap around under the belly and maybe for the 3 variations of step 2 mix in some of the ideas of thumbs 2 and 3. Remember "beautiful, exotic colors."
Number 5 approved: move to step 2

edited: sorry i said 3, but I meant 5 is approved

[MindCandyMan]

I have my rough color sketches done...are these too rough though? I didn't want to take them too far because I didn't want to move into rendering too fast? Hope they are the right "roughness" hehehe

http://www.mindcandyman.com/jons_uploads/3 color sketches.jpg

[Mike Corriero]

Hey guys, wonderful job on the sketches. I'm really digging the design processes some of you guys show in the sketch form and there are good stuff even those that aren't approved.


It might not be an issue and I may be overly paranoid. Should the drawings come with a date+CA.org watermark? Not that it may happen, but in case someone decides to steal these concepts for their own.

Yes, you guys should be typing
Copyright ©2005 Your Name - on all of your artwork you post online

to make the © copyright C icon, just hold down the alt key on your keyboard and hit the number 0169 while holding alt the hold time.

©2005

[Mike Corriero]

MindCandyMan - "perfect" The amount of color and details is just fine, they shouldn't be any more or any less detailed, you did a good job in the variations as well, and sticking close to the approved thumb. Nice job.
I'll comment on them as soon as I can, after I post crits and comments on Interceptors thumbs.

[Mike Corriero]

Interceptor@- Nice work
Some of them didn't have enough variation in between each individual thumb but overall you did pretty good. In the thumbnail stage you want to provide as much variation as you can so that the client has a large variety of designs to choose from, so they can head closest in the direction they want to go.
I think Number 4 was the best.
I posted a couple changes to it that I would like to see when you move on to the 3 variations in color stage 2. I tried out larger/longer limbs, 4 limbs, this way he can walk on ground and still have exotic fin/legs to be capable of swimming and walking on land thus giving him that amphibian characteristic.
I also exaggerated the horns a bit and gave him some stripes and spots.
When you move on to step 2, try out a couple varied horns, fin/leg ideas, keep the basic idea here but just mix it up a bit, and provide some interesting color patterns and variations of a color scheme.
Number 4 approved - move to step 2

[Mike Corriero]

MindCandyMan@- Step 2 crits/comments
In the top portion- "Various Design Elements"
Legs
RED #1 : The front leg seems too distinct in design in comparison to the back leg. It's OK to have varied sizes and sometimes it's fine if a creatures one leg is completely different than the other, but for this specific creature I think it would work best if the front legs felt aquatic. They could remain short,bulky but just more like a seals flippers. The reason is, his front legs look heavy and bulky like a rhino or elephant and wouldn't feel natural for swimming.
Red#2 : I like this leg design, how it bends in the opposite direction, combine this with the front leg and you'll probably get something workable.
Tails
Blue#1 : The design of the tail is nice
Blue#2 : The larger more exaggerated design is better than blue 1
Horns
Purple#1 : I like it, it's nice and has the generic antelope feeling to it.
Purple#2 : I really like the design of these horns, their interesting, exotic and more fun to look at.
Purple#3 : not enough interest, they don't seem to serve any purpose for either defense or mating spectacle.

In the lower portion: "Variation of Color Patterns and "Minor" design adjustments"
Number 4 : I just extended the green stripes from the color of the body up the neck and down the front arms to keep the color scheme unified instead of separating the head completely from the body like you originally had it. This way it appears to be one unique animal, instead of looking like it was two animals placed together. To better convey this, I also took some of the pink from the tail and used it in the pattern around the eye.
Number 5: I liked this design, I thought it had potential so I did a quick paint over adjusting the front arms like I mentioned - making them more aquatic and seal-like but keeping them short and bulky. I also tried a variation on the horns/ears and tried some extra stripes and spots.
Number 6: I really liked the overall approach to this one, the colors were nice, the spots on the back were nice, the horns were great.

So I took design number 5 and merged it a bit with number 6
This design is stamped with my approval. When you move on to step 3 for the honed drawing, please use my suggestions and stick closely to the approved image. In this step you should work out any anatomy issues that may be noticeable in the approved sketch, add details and think about the color scheme based on my comments. I think that the black/blue/white color scheme is nice and could be interesting. Once we get passed step 3, I'll mention more about the color for the Final image.
Just to clarify - The Honed Drawing - ( detailed b&w drawing - tighten up details and correct any issues as mentioned )

[Mike Corriero]

Floris Didden
ngnorden <- your kind of an exception because you only found out about the thread not long ago
Craig D
Approx: 19 and a half hours remaining - a reminder, if you do not hand in your thumbnails by 5PM Dec. 6th USA, NYC time - you will be dropped from this activity ;)
Just a word of advice guys, realizing this is all make believe and I'm sure in a real job situation you would have more motivation to get things done quicker for reasons of money and pressure - but It's always good to get your work done earlier than the exact deadline. The Client will appreciate it much more, especially the thumbnail phase.

[Craig D]

Here you go Mike
I struggled with these more than I thought, I geuss that's why this is a learning exercise. Thanks for your comments.
Craig

http://www.clubwebcanada.ca/cdaniels/Thumbconcepts2a.jpg

[Floris Didden]

My apologies for making it a photo finish. Been (and will be) very bussy. Won't bail out though, pressure is part of the experience :P.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/krabad/thumbsweb.jpg

[MindCandyMan]

awesome...thanks for taking the time to explain everything mike I know that took a lot I really appreciate it. Hey will you often get art directors drawing over your stuff, etc...? Or do they normally just tell you to do it?

[Mike Corriero]

Craig D & Floris Didden - I'll crit as soon as I get some time.

MindCandyMan@- It's like a 50/50 a lot of times it just depends on the client, but for the job I have right now, I have like 3 or 4 different people directing me and they are giving "paint-overs" on some designs to follow.
I've had other clients who provide a multitude of references to follow, and others who just say "do your thing". So that's my reasoning behind all the references I posted along with a pretty decent sized brief. You sometimes get a 3 or 4 sentence description, and other times a client will send you 2 or 3 pages worth of info.
I'm also drawing on top of peoples work and giving in depth crits because it's part of the learning process, so sometimes, you might have to figure all this out on your own and wouldn't get any kind of paint-over or mark-up explaining things like I'm doing.

[brokk]

Mike, I really like the clean look of your thumnail images. Also its really interesting how you already determine the areas of detail and patterns in the thumbnail stage. Works really good.

[Mike Corriero]

ngnorden - 1 hour left
if you have thumbnails to post but not all 10 - I would say just to post what you have done at this point.

[MindCandyMan]

hey mike do you have an example of the black and white image by chance? Like the stork one in your portfolio?

[PHATandy]

Gonna colour it tomorrow.

http://www.andydesign.co.uk/best/waterlope3.jpg

I think i folowed you redoings a bit much :S. Oh well. Tell me which peices you like and stuff, ill reput it all together and colour.

[Mike Corriero]

http://pratt.edu/~mcorrier/Projects/hostrol-web.jpg

MindCandyMan & Everyone else - The full body shot of the two legged bird is a good example in which to shoot for your honed drawing. It should be "at least" as detailed and possibly more. The main thing to stress about this is to work out the pose, anatomy, and details of textures etc. While keeping the design based off of the approved image from step 2.

Take your time on this one IF you have more time than other people. You are going to base your final color rendering off of this image, so it has to be close to perfect.

[Mike Corriero]

OK PHATandy - looking much better on the bottom 2, I look forward to the colors ;) I'll crit the work once you post the colored versions.

[Mike Corriero]

Craig D@- I'm going to have you move ahead with number 3.
The thumbs with the red checks next to them also worked well, but I'd like to see you further develop thumb number 3. When you produce the 3 variations in color, try to exaggerate some thing more like in my paint-over of your thumb. I made the tail larger, and added some more fins and larger horns to the head. He should be exotic and beautiful to some respect, so keep that in mind. The thumb with the red X would be considered unclear and not developed enough for a client to understand it.
Number 3 approved- move to step 2

[Mike Corriero]

Floris Didden@- Nice work, working out thumbs like this is usually the quickest and easiest way to work as long as it's clear to the client. I really liked number 8 because he just had a unique spiral-like design but the ones with the red checks next to the numbers were also really cool.
I'd like to see you develop number 8. Perhaps try some variations of rows of small feet or fins along the long snake-like tentacle body.
Overall I think the exaggerated size of the horns are great and the design works well. Try to keep in mind in step 2, with the variations that he should be capable of being mounted. So the horns on the back may need to be placed further apart so a rider can fit on the back. I really like where the horns are on the back though so maybe try to have them curve inward leaving enough room for a rider, kind of like a rib cage if that helps for you to visualize.

[Mike Corriero]

ngnorden - If I could PM you I would, but the issues with the forum are not allowing me to send any private messages out. It's currently 4:58 here and I wish if you had at least 5 thumbs that you would have posted them. If you can PM me please do, and let me know where your at with this first step, otherwise I'll have to drop you.
I apologize that you found out about this later than everyone else but for the thumbnails I would have expected something to be posted, don't sweat it though..just continue to watch the activity. ;)

btw- If you post some thumbs soon.. I'll let you continue but in real life, this would be a missed deadline.

[MindCandyMan]

hey mike this may be a weird question...but I have been trying to draw that stupid thing all day...and I feel like I don't have the ability to produce a detailed drawing like you did. I'm not quite sure what to do and how to do it even. I know that's a weird question and this is where the practice, etc... comes in but I guess I was hoping for some kind of tip of how you work. I guess you would have to explain to me how to draw well...which can't be explained in totality...arghhh

[Craig D]

Thanks for the comments Mike, I'll get on the next step.
re # 10- was running out of ideas, thought I'd throw you a joke "thumb",
guess I wasn't too succesfull:S

Craig

[ngnorden]

Sorry! I misread 5PM as 6PM argh!!.. I've done 10 thumbs and I'm labelling them now posting in a sec!

[ngnorden]

http://www.ngnorden.com/art/waterloop_thumbs.jpg

very rough!




ngnorden - I'll let you slide this time get em up asap Thanks man 8)

[Mike Corriero]

ngnorden - I'll let you slide this time ;) get em up asap

MindCandyMan@-
http://pratt.edu/~mcorrier/Projects/waterlopeanimated1.gif

Can I get away with a quick/rough animated gif tutorial?
Basically, I started off with some rough shapes, and start to lay in the lines and curves of the creature/animal. You should keep some references of similar animals in front of you to refer to for bones, textures, details...
Keep your approved sketch in front of you too, and just start out with the basic overall shape and proportions of the animal, and slowly work in the details and refine shapes and textures.

Post what you consider to be the final, and at that point I will post some paint overs and post corrections of any flaws and then you can go back and rework it or fix it up digitally or what have you. I hope that helps a bit. The animated tutorial gif is short and quick, but just continue to work on it adding in details and refer to references of animals from online or books.

[Mike Corriero]

good job ngnorden I'll crit them when i get some time later

[MindCandyMan]

thanks mike...we all owe you a lot. That definitely helps...you make it look easy hehe ;)

I'm seriously about to rip my eyeballs out...I am so angry at my lack of skill. bleh...just another day as an artist hehehe

[redehlert]

hey mcm - aren't you the one that posted the slayer series of studies from your atelier class? ;) you have skills, bro.....no doubts there. remember that and relax into it. what mikec said about having similar animals to ref is going to be a huge boon to your work - you have a very critical eye (best not rip them out). :)
cheers!
d

[Avatar]

Well, I know I'm late but just 2 hours ago I found this thread so I hurried to meet the deadline for phase one. So here are my ten Waterlopes. Let me know if there is place here for one more competitor.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/Avatarr/Waterlope.jpg

[Mike Corriero]

MindCandyMan- since your so good at using reference for your life drawing works and drawing bust and casts and all that, just try to think of this as drawing from life.. the muscles, textures etc would be no different, and if you look at as many references as you can, you can try to visualize them molded together as one animal and use each animals design to help visualize your creature. Try not to let it frustrate you too much, your thumbs and step 2 work were nice, ;)
and listen to what Redehlert said as well

Avatar@- I didn't happen to see your name on the round 1 list anywhere ;) but considering someone had to drop out for personal reasons, I'll make an exception and crit your thumbs but PLEASE NO ONE ELSE post work..only the people on the list. I'll add your name avatar since you weren't too late and happen to actually produce the work anyway. Please review the first page and make sure you stick to the deadlines and information. You can only move on to the next steps once given approval. I'll have to crit your thumbs and ngnordens when i find some time later tonight since I'm really busy with work.

[Mike Corriero]

Ngnorden@- I really like the quirky, animated/stylized look to some of these. The ones with red checks were the ones I liked the most and that stuck closest to the design brief. The one with the red X is only given an X because it appears to be more of a flying creature than a water based creature.
I like thumbnail number 1 the most because of the stylized exaggerated design. So try not to stray too far from that stylized look, which will be hard when you start to give the creature a more 3-dimensional look. Just remember when you start to make it appear more 3-dimensional that keeping the same proportions and exaggerations will help to keep the look of this style.

Thumbs Number 1 has approval, move to step 2 .. try some interesting patterns and colors, I don't think the cow spots on the thumb help to portray something that is exotic/beautiful so try something else ;)
Look at exotic fish for some inspiration.

[Mike Corriero]

Avatar@- Number 4 was cool but the tail would probably eat up the poly's so I think number 10 would better suit this kind of design. I slightly added to the exaggeration of the tail and a bit more to the fins on the neck. I also think that it would be cool if it's legs were very thin, almost "just enough" to stand and walk but not powerful enough to run..so that it's quicker in water and once in water it can just let it's thin frail legs hang back while its powerful tail and body swim like a fish.
Number 10 has approval - move to step 2

[Mike Corriero]

OK
all thumbnails of step 1 have been approved, so the next deadline for those of you who haven't started or posted work for step 2 yet is set at 5PM on the 9th of December.
This is where it starts to get a little more fast paced, and you'll see why it's better to finish things before a deadline instead of exactly on the deadline ;)

[PHATandy]

http://www.andydesign.co.uk/best/waterlope4.jpg

nuff said, look forward to your choice so i can get working on the next bit, mike.

Andy.

[ngnorden]

Nice work Andy
Mike just wanna say thanks for doing this http://www.ngnorden.com/stuff/emoticons/yourock.gif

[Avatar]

Ok, here is my stage 2. Some basic colors as suggested, followed the comments, added a bit of the character with many tails you liked Mike. Waiting for your choice.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/Avatarr/Waterlope2.jpg

[Mike Corriero]

PHATandy@- What I'm going to suggest you do for the third step (honed drawing) is to take elements from both your number 2 & 3 images here, and mold them together to create a more exotic creature. I exaggerated things even more by extending the tail fins and horns, and enlarged the side fins. Where you currently had his back fin placed, it would be hard to have a character mount the creature, so I lengthened the neck and split the back fins up on the neck and lower back, leaving a space for a rider.
As far as color, Number 2 was almost there but a little place, think "colorful" beautiful, fun, exotic, tropical fish etc and you'll get the idea. Try to work in some subtle purples,oranges, teals..

I also thought that your number 3 concepts face was looking a little "mean" so in the paint over I adjusted his eyes.

You can move on to step 3, and try to stick to my suggestions ;)

The Honed drawing - try a more 3/4 perspective view that gives a little more dimension to the character so it's not just a side view. Add in texture details of the skin. This part should be a b&w drawing.

[Mike Corriero]

Avatar@- Nice work. Some minor suggestions. I think that the colors overall were great, very bright, colorful, rainbow-like, fun, exotic.. the colors fit the description perfectly.
I think the design would be interesting if the head from number 3 was placed on the body of number 2. I liked the overall colors of number 2, but maybe pushing them a little further with some hot pinks and yellow/orange would make the color scheme pop a bit. I also really liked the exaggerated scaly body. I adjusted the color of the eyes, just exaggerated the horns very slightly, lengthened the legs a bit.
Follow this design please when you proceed to step 3 ( honed drawing).
Edit: ALSO, perhaps try working in the saddle shaped scaled back like your number 1 design into this approved mark-up of number 2.

[ngnorden]

http://www.ngnorden.com/art/Waterlope_three_color.jpg

I just wonder how much detail should be put into the lineart and how much should the colors take care of? Because I think some kind of short haired fur would suit the creature and I'm not sure whether to do the fur with loads of tiny ink strokes and then add colors with multiply, or to leave it blank and do the fur strokes with color only.

Otherwise overall is the creature so far acceptable realism-wise or is it too cartoony? I'll continue to work out what more detail to add.

[Mike Corriero]

Take a look at antelopes anatomy when doing this, even though its cartoonish don't let the anatomy slide too much. I fixed up quickly, some issues with the legs and added in a bit of touch ups here or there.. just adjust some things based on this paint over.

The design should seem 3-dimensional, and less 2d or flat, so that the modeler has a better understanding of the design. After the concept is approved generally a concept artist would create the ortho ( front, side, back) for the modeler, but try to give it more dimension - adding the left side of the necks flaps like I did..etc

Create 3 layers, the drawing one one layer with the multiply layer option chosen, then underneath it paint the colors on a blank layer so the color shows underneath the line work. You can paint the hairs easily like this. Something to keep in mind is not to make the hair individual strands, since the model will be low-poly so most things like small hairs will have to be texture work on a flat shaped wire frame.

[Gloominati]

okay here are my color versions

shit I forgot to give them numbers, fuck but I think that it also works this way:
creature on the top: 1
creature in the middle:2
creature on the bottom: 3

hhttp://people.freenet.de/glominatisart/creatures3up.jpg
Hope that the colors aren't too rough...

[Inkfish]

hi!

here are the rough drafts for step 2.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/inkfish/sketches1-3.jpg
1.skin is supposed to be a bit slimy and scaly (toad meets fish scales)
2. i tried a version without feet at all.( don't know how well i pulled it out though ;))
3. wanted to try the classic red black white combo on the colours. Added yellow to spice things up. Not so sure about the horns with this version, but it looked too lizardly without them i hope it doesn't resemble a generic dragon too much.

Antti

[Mike Corriero]

Gloominati@- I still liked the frog/antelope take so I'm going to have you go with your number 1 design. I want you to push the color scheme though when you get to that point which will be on the Final. Design-wise though for step 3 ( honed drawing) try adding a bit of a bumpy/scale texture like you mentioned but don't overdo it, just hint at it in the honed drawing. I adjusted the feet/legs, horns a bit and a few other minor things so stick to the changes.
As for the color, just try adding in some brighter saturations of each color like the greens and blues and red/browns.. It will make him look more exotic and stand out more.
Move on to step 3.

[Mike Corriero]

Inkfish@- I like the number 1 design the most, but I changed it up a bit and put number 2's head on there. I think that the colors were a bit too "green" though for his design so he seemed too much like a lizard/dragon overall. Maybe try some cooler colors and brighter/purple/orange on the fins. I extended the tail a bit.
Number 3 was looking too dragon-like as you mentioned, he was also looking a bit too evil or demon-like with the horns and colors so stay away from that by using cooler colors and more tropical-like colors.
Use this design as a reference for step 3 (honed drawing)

[sve]

I really enjoy this thread, so informative and fun to read and observe. Thank you very much! You all are great. Mike, you amazed me, you are wonderful
Sveta dudetta

[Mike Corriero]

I'm sorry guys, this is going to be put on hold or canceled I can't continue any longer due to health issues. I apologize to those of you who are doing work and did not get a chance for critique on thier step 2 or step 3 work.

[PHATandy]

ok man, its totally cool. I understand your really not feeling well man.
Hope you get fit and well soon man :)
Peace.Andy.

[Interceptor]

Hey Mike. You need to take a break.. and like Marko said, grab a beer.. Thanks for this thread though, it's been helpful.. I just finished my stage 2, so I'm going to post it anyways....http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/Gatery941/stage2.jpg

[Craig D]

Mike
absolutely no problem, thanks for what you got going so far.

Interceptor, I'm thinking number 3 is your most succesfull.

Craig

[dCepT]

Hey, Mike! I totally understand, man! Take all the time you need! Your own health comes first. Appreciate the effort you've taken so far!

Interceptor: I agree with Craig D on that one... the third is definately the most interesting colorscheme! I like the curve of it's back on the nr. 1, though.. if you're gonna go to the next step, maybe bring that into it, and keeping with the rest of the scheme in nr. 3.

Rest of ya'll got crits from Mike, but I just had to give an asspat to Avatar... your colorconcepts are beautiful!

Here's my step 2.. Like Interceptor said.. since I finished it, I might as well post it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/dCepT/Assignements/roughcolor.jpg

peace

d-C

[Interceptor]

cCept, I also like your 3rd one. I might make the pink color a bit brighter, though? So it'd show through in the water better. Are you going to go on with the next step anyways? I think I am going to.. Just to keep Mike's dream alive :D lol

[Gloominati]

That's absolutely no Problem Mike!!
Thanks for all the advice, I have already learned a lot of new things that i can use for future projects. Thanks for that.
And take a break, man. Become healthy first and then maybe we can start this thing once more!!

[Floris Didden]

Mike, best of luck. I'm glad you chose for your health. Thanks a lot for setting this up, had a lot of fun and feel like I already learned quite a bit.
Get well soon m8.

[dCepT]

Interceptor: Yeah... I think I'll go ahead... Gonna stick to the deadlines as well, just to get the most out of this thing ;)

d-C

[ngnorden]

Thanks for the learning, it's been great.

[Inkfish]

I hope you get well soon Mike.
I really apriciate the time you took to make this thread happen and the great crits you gave.

all the best

Antti

[possessed]

awesome work all around, I never knew this thread existed !! I would have signed on if I had seen it, maybe for the next one.

[MindCandyMan]

Focus on getting better Mike...we are all pulling for you bro. This thread can wait till you get better.

[Avatar]

I'm sorry to hear you're not well. Hope to get healthy soon. And don't break a sweat, if its canceled, its canceled. It was fun so far :) Anyways, thought to post here step three because I finished it anyways. Be well Mike!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/Avatarr/Waterlope3.jpg

[Fozzybar]

oh just saw this thread....what an amazing amount of time and effort you put in Mike! Big respect from me as i know how even a weekly actvitiy is time consuming, but this is amazing and really, it is hard work and will stress you more when you're ill....relax buddy!

Put it aside as long as you want to...really RELAX!!! Most important thing is your health...forget this for a while...

[sve]

Yeah, Mike, do your best to get yourself in a good shape again. You are such a great guy! Rare combination of talent, brains and kindness. I wish a harmony for you and around you,
Sveta

[Mike Corriero]

Thanks for the kind words, well wishes and understanding guys. Again - im sorry

Emily G may be taking over - so keep an eye on the thread still

[emily g]

WhooHoo!
Yes, I talked to Mike and I will be taking over the activity for him.
You guys have such great stuff going on here, we have to keep things going!

We will be running the activity just as originally planned in the first post, so that means that the next deadline is Dec. 12.

Mike, you go get yourself better--everybody else, let's roll!

emily

[ngnorden]

cool emily!
though take me off the list, I'm now officially on vacation :yayca:

[Craig D]

Emily G
Thanks for taking over
but the deadline on 12th for which step?
because the activity was cancelled on the 8th before the step deadline of the 9th for the 3 colour variations I'm confused.

[Mike Corriero]

To help out with the deadline and schedule.
Everyone completed step 1 ( 10 thumbnails)

Step2:
Avatar - completed and approved
Gloominati - completed and approved
Inkfish - completed and approved
PHATandy - completed and approved
MindCandyMan - completed and approved
Interceptor - Completed - not yet approved
Dcept - Completed - not yet approved
Evil Sloth - not yet completed
Floris Didden - not yet completed
ngnorden - not yet completed
profil - not yet completed
Craig D - not yet completed
Scumgrinder - not yet completed

Step 3:
Avatar - Completed - not yet approved

There was approx 27 hours left for step 2, when I stated I could no longer run this.

Updated Schedule based on my lack of ability to run this and time screw up.

Step 1: Due Dec. 6th : 10 thumbnail sketches
10 rough 1 x 2 inch thumbnail sketches presenting variations in overall concept design. They should be presented in b&w on an 8 x 12 sheet of paper and individually numbered one through ten. They can be digital or pencil sketches. Step 1 completed
Step 2: Due Dec. 12th : 3 rough color variations
Once a thumbnail design Is approved, design 3 variations based off of comments given by myself. These should be a little more detailed than the thumbnails and they should be presented in color. The color does not need to be detailed, just enough to get the general idea across. These should be numbered one through three.
Step 3: Due Dec. 15th : 1 honed drawing posed
Based on comments and the approved version of step 2 you should present a cleaned up detailed drawing of the creature design.
Step 4: Due Dec. 19th : Final color design
Based on comments given and the approved hone drawing, make any necessary changes and present the final detailed color version on a white background - Shadows and minimal texture or colored backgrounds are acceptable but should not take away from the creature design.

[emily g]

Yes, thank you Mike. We will just push the deadlines back a bit to make up for the confusion.

So everyone who has not yet completed step 2 (3 rough color variations) has until Dec. 12th to finish.

thanks,
emily

[Gloominati]

whooohoooo, that'S awesome!!
So lets get back to the drawing board, hehe!!!

[Profil]

Fuck, I really need to finish it then.
I went away for this weekend and got a shitload of schoolwork to do. But I will try to finish it.

Edit: fuck as in I stopped it when I heard about Mike and I went away for the weekend so it means I don't have much time. Not fuck that it was bad that it started again.

[emily g]

Interceptor: I liked all of your designs quite a bit. I liked the front flippers on number 2, plus I liked the subtle markings you put on his skin, but overall I felt the red color made him look too "dragony." I chose number 3 because I liked his horns the best and the great way you colored him really sold it to me.

A few changes:
stomach--I felt the green color was a little dull, so changed it to yellow. Note that I want the color of the stomach to make a smooth transition to the rest of the body.
horns--I made these brown because they highlight the antelope part of him. Also, I want you to show how the horns attach to the head.
eyes--I darkened the eye, added a highlight, and changed the rim around his eye to yellow. This high contrast will draws the viewer's eye and will make the creature seem more alive.
spots--I wanted just a little more yellow on the head, so I added a few spots.

Cute design. I'm looking forward to the finish. Go ahead and start on step 3.

emily

[dCepT]

Hey Emily! Cool to see you in here! I'm guessing the feedback to mine is coming soon... I'm all hyped to get to the next step!

peace

d-C

[Craig D]

Here's some colour choices and variations.
Craig

http://www.clubwebcanada.ca/cdaniels/watercolourvariationsjpeg.jpg

[emily g]

dCept--I chose number 3 out of the designs you produced. I felt this one had the clearest anatomy and I liked the colors. I also like number 1, but I really couldn't figure out how the fin attached to the back leg.

A few things I want you to watch out for:
legs--I think the anatomy can be a little clearer here. The front legs are unusual because the "elbow" joint is so much lower than horse-type animals usually have, so make sure this is worked out. Also, it would be good to define exactly how the feet work, too. I made some adjustments to the fins.
torso--I thickened the torso up and adjusted the shoulder.
head--I cleaned it up a bit around the ears, eyes, and horns.
color--I want the color to be a more aqua-blue rather than green-blue because it is more watery to me.

Good job, move ahead to step 3.

emily g

[Evil_Sloth]

heres my prelims.
sorry if they are late.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/Evil_Sloth/3_Colour_Var.jpg

[Avatar]

Hi Emilly, I already posted step 3 days ago, can you tell me if its aproved? Or if its not, what you think should change? Because I want to finish it and I need to know if I can pass colors on it.

[Mike Corriero]

Glad you guys are keeping up on this, I hope everyone continues to participate, and I hope the rest of you meet step 2's deadline. The work is looking good.

[emily g]

Avatar, I just have a couple of minor comments on your piece. I am almost done with Craig D's, and then I will post yours.

thanks,
emily

Also, Profil, Scumgrinder, and Floris Didden are the people who still need to finish step 2. You have until the end of the day on December 12th. Just sometime before the end of the day.

[emily g]

Craig D--I liked your number 1 variation the best, but I want you to go back a little more to the thumbnail design that Mike drew up for you. I think it is a more regal looking creature. So I combined that original thumbnail with your number 1 drawing.

head--I have the horns going back more and I added the fin on the neck.
torso--I made the body a little thicker and made the neck shorter and thicker.
color--I think overall your coloring could be more subtle and sophisticated. I kept your major design, but blended things a little more.
tail--I made this more like the thumbnail design, shorter and flatter like a paddle.

This step is approved. You can move on to step 3.

emily

[S.C. Watson]

Wow. This is the first time I've had a chance to go through this thread. This is totallly aweseom stuff. This is a *huge* time commitment from Emily and Mike - serious props your way.

Everyone participating, - beautiful work! A lot of creativity going on here and you guys should be proud of what you're doing! Looking forward to seeing the final results!

cheers,
~Oreg.

[emily g]

Avatar--Your drawing is very beautiful! Great job, this is a wonderful drawing--very detailed and well thought out. I can see exactly how this design is going to work. My comments are rather minor.

legs--just make sure your anatomy is ok on this area of the front leg. I compared the straight leg with the bent one when looking at the anatomy. I want to know where the "elbow" joint is (marked with green arrows), and I want to know where the "inside elbow" joint is (marked with blue arrows).
The anatomy is not a big problem, in fact I don't think most people would notice it at all. Your design holds up just fine as it is. I just want you to be aware of this for your own information.
hoofs--also just a minor comment to make sure all the hooves look the same. The hoof marked number 2 should look more like number 1, etc. Again, this is just minor nitpick.

Again, very nice job. I am not going to require you to change your drawing--unless you want to, of course. This is approved and you can move on to the next step.

emily

[Craig D]

Thanks Emily
re colouring, you're right. unfortunately I 've never used photoshop or a tablet before a couple weeks ago and it's showing.
Might just have to pull out a canvas and oils for the final colouring :)
Craig

[Profil]

I have a shitload of schoolwork, so I finished them, but I rushed it, so some probaly suck ass:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a348/Profil_deluxe/Designcreatureroughcolor.jpg

Edit: I forgot the yellow ones saddle color. Anyway
Yellow one: 1
The tentacle one: 2
Pink one: 3

[Floris Didden]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/krabad/step2.jpg
EDIT: Made 3 different colour schemes while exploring the design further based on mikes comment. I took the thumb he approved as a starting point and produced 3 variations using the thumbs that got red marks.

[dCepT]

Floris Didden: Those are gorgeous! Can't wait to see what your final looks like!

Profil: Good to see you made it, man! I like the lower left the most. Colors fitted best together. And like I said in your SB-thread; don't beat yourself up too much! ;)

peace

d-C

[Avatar]

Thanks a lot for your answer Emilly. I apologies for getting so rushed. Just got into a rythm and trying to keep it. Thank you for pointing out the anatomy issues, ofcourse they will be corected, there is plenty of time now. Again, thanks for your reply.

[MindCandyMan]

awesome floris...showin us how it's done

[emily g]

Evil_Sloth--I thought all of your ideas were very creative. I loved the yellow-orange color, but I picked the red/green one because I really liked the transitions from red to green on the tenticles.

legs--I changed the legs to look a little more like Mike's thumbnail. I took the "jewel" things off the legs, because I thought they were better just on the tenticles.
jewels--I really liked these, they add a lot of interest. I liked how the jewels on the blue creature vary from small to larger, and I would like to see that kind of variation on the number 3 design.
fin--I'm not sure exactly how you intended this fin to be, but I imagined it as a single fin running along the center of the stomach.
ears--I thought adding some red to the ears and flaps would tie things in to how the tenticles look and bring some more red up to the face.

On your next step, I want to draw the head from another angle so we can see how the design works from maybe a side vew. This is approved and you can move on to the next step.

emily

[emily g]

Profil--I really liked the blue/green creature. The little touches of purple on the front tenticles are great, and I love the goofy-sweet expression on his face.

horns--I modified the horns a little and made them purple to tie in with the purple on the tenticles.
saddle--I changed the saddle to a warm color in order to make it stand out from the body.

The creature is really cute, I hope you can keep the whimsical feeling as you move on to the next step. This is approved.

emily

[emily g]

Floris--these are gorgeous designs. I especially loved the number 3 design because of the wings/fins, the swirly designs and the colors. I also love how the horns fade off into the yellow color--they almost look glowing. The gold/turquoise combination is very beautiful.

A couple of things:
hoofs--I thought it might be nice to do the hooves similar to how you did the horns.
leg--make sure you get your anatomy right here. I don't know if it's because of the swirls, but the muscles of the leg look a little bumpy.

Also, be sure it is clear that there is enough space for a rider. (Would they sit behind the wings?) Great job, and you can move on to the next step.

emily

[Floris Didden]

dCepT, MCM, cheers, looking forward to seeing your work for the next steps ).

Emily, good points. I was thinking the legs were kinda boring and needed something, the hoofs are a great opportunity to spice em up a bit. I must've botched up the legs while laying in the colours, you're right that it's very bumpy. I'll be sure to get some reference for the legs.

edit: almost forgot. Emily, for step 3, should I add a saddle and/or a rider to make things clear?

[Gloominati]

Really cool stuff everyone!!!

Here is my drawing

http://people.freenet.de/glominatisart/13-12-05(1).jpg

[PHATandy]

Stage trois (3 for those who dont understand french)

http://www.andydesign.co.uk/best/waterlope5.jpg

er... i guess its ok.. but i mean ill just be using this to paint over so. Not much detail and stuff in shading.
Hope its ok.

[Inkfish]

here is my step 3. I applied some real lizard skin as a texture. Is it acceptable, or should i get rid of it?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/inkfish/sketch3.jpg

[emily g]

Floris, in your next step I think I'll have you add a small diagram showing how a rider would sit on your creature. Does that make sense?

Just render out your creature and add the small drawing to the side (a simple line drawing would be enough). I think this would be better than having you spend your time rendering out a rider.

I don't think you need a saddle because your creature has enough detail on it already, but if you need a saddle to make the rider work, go ahead and add one.

emily

[emily g]

Gloominati--Your drawing looks pretty good, except for a few things. :) Mike made some changes to the feet and horns of your last drawing and told you to stick to those changes. You kept his changes for the feet, but did you forget about the horns? You should do what he asked you to do!
Also, I am confused about the tail. Did you add something to it? I liked it better they way it was before. You will need to fix these things before you move on to the next step.
Also, I just circled the notebook edges on your scan. It would be simple to crop these out and make a nicer presentation.

emily

[emily g]

PHATandy--good job on the 3/4 view. Your drawing is nice and easy to read. I just noted a few minor things. I would rather have the body smooth than have those chubby folds, and I just tweaked the tail a bit.

This is approved. You can move on to the next step.

emily

[emily g]

Inkfish--this drawing is good, nice and clear. I like how you handled the legs. In some areas the texture works well, in others it doesn't really seem to curve around the form (marked in red). If you can make the texture work, I don't mind if you use it.

This is approved. You can move on to the next step.

emily

[dCepT]

Here's my honed drawing... would've liked to work more on it, but work and stuff is gonna get in the way, so I'm posting now.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/dCepT/Assignements/Step3web.jpg

d-C

[MindCandyMan]

http://www.mindcandyman.com/jons_uploads/creaturestep3.jpg

[Gloominati]

Holy shit, somehow I simply forgot about these horns.......well I fixed this and hope that it's okay now...

http://people.freenet.de/glominatisart/15-12-05(1).jpg

[Interceptor]

Woh, this thread is back on? When did this happen? :(

[emily g]

Ok Gloominati, you're approved now. Thanks for the quick turnaround.

Interceptor, I pm'ed everyone to let them know that the thread was back on. Did you not get my message? You can pm me if you have questions--I would really like to see you finish.

Thanks everyone, you're all doing well. Deadline for the next step is tomorrow evening (Dec. 15th) so I hope you all remembered!
emily

[Floris Didden]

Today is the 15th, non? Or are we following pst time?

[Interceptor]

Emily, I can't seem to PM you for some reason. :(

[Avatar]

Hi guys. Beautyful drawings all around. Here I am posting my last step in this challenge. If Emilly will aprove this, that was it. Anyways, I want to dedicate this one to Mike. Get well man!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/Avatarr/Waterlope3color2.jpg

[MindCandyMan]

really nice design avatar it looks really great. Love how the fin is translucent...awesome man.

[Craig D]

Great work everyone
here's my step 3.
Wondering though should these be just line drawings? Does it matter?

Emily, I shortened the fin on the neck from what you approved. I was concerned that there either would be not enough room for the rider or that he might be uncomfortable riding with big spikes in his face. Let me know what you think about this.
Thanks, Craig
http://www.clubwebcanada.ca/cdaniels/waterlopestep3.jpg

[Profil]

I hope this one is alright:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a348/Profil_deluxe/designcreaturehoneddrawing.jpg

[emily g]

Interceptor: I sent you a pm and an email. Tell me if you receive either of these.

Floris: Yes, today is the 15th. I know, it came fast! In fact, I think even if you send it tomorrow morning, it will still arrive on the evening of the 15th for me.

Anybody can pm me with questions. If you can't find the "send a private message to _____" link, you can usually still pm if you go into your private messages and click "send new message" then type the person's name in by hand. Let me know if you can't reach me.

Also, I think the "send a message via email" link in my profile works, so you can try that if you can't pm.

Things are looking good everyone! I'll be back later to make comments.

thanks,
emily

[Floris Didden]

Emily, that's what you get with diff time zones eh? Glad I'm 'ahead' of you then :).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/krabad/step3_klein.jpg

[MindCandyMan]

cool design profil...I like the face especially. Has a kind look to it and it's interesting...I feel like I haven't seen anything like that before. Good stuff.

Edit :

NICE FLORIS! When I responded your pic came up...Awesome man looks fantastic!!!

[Floris Didden]

Profil, I absolutely adore it's expression. What MCM said.

MCM, dude, thanks ! :D

[Avatar]

Thanks for the comment MindCandyMan. I think that was for me. I will wait to see what Emmily has to say about it. Floris, awsome concept. I love your choice of colors, works perfectly with the design.

[Mike Corriero]

Just popping in to say NICE work guys. Avatar and Floris, your finals came out really great. You should be proud.
Not sure how much I'll be around before the holidays but hope everyone has a Merry Christmas, Happy Holiday, and Happy New Year.

Mike C -

[Avatar]

You too Mike. Happy Hollydays! Have lots of fun!

[dCepT]

Emily: Apparently I can't PM.. I submitted my sketch, but I haven't gotten an approval...?

d-C

[emily g]

dCepT--Ah, frustrating when the client doesn't get back to you right away, isn't it? Haha, just teasing ya. :)

There's just a couple of things I want you to watch when you do your final.
saddle--the saddle looks like it's lifting off the creature a little in the front.
back foot--just make sure it looks stable.
legs--it's really important that you get the anatomy right on the legs (especially the ankles) in your final, because this is the area where drawing weaknesses are most likely to be noticed. So check some reference and make sure you nail it!

emily

[dCepT]

Emily: Haha... didn't mean to put pressure on ya... but I thought maybe you'd missed it.. could happen ;)

thanks

d-C

[emily g]

MindCandyMan: Your drawing is great--very clear and precise. I love how you drew out the horns, the back fin, and the back foot. I just want the eye to be a little bigger. I feel it's so small that it's getting lost.

Great job, this is approved.

emily

[MindCandyMan]

Thanks emily...I will make the eye bigger in the next step. Just want you to know that we all really appreciate you helping out in this thread. It's great to have it still going.

[emily g]

Avatar: This is absolutely gorgeous! You should be really proud of yourself! Great job.
Sorry to pick on you for the leg again :), but I brought the "shoulder" joint up just a bit. I just copied it on to a new layer and then erased around the edges to blend it in.
I also tried a little experiment with the eye--but feel free to disregard that. I think it's just a matter of opinion and looks good either way.
These are just things for you to think about--I'm not going to require any changes of you.

Your final is approved. Congrats!

emily

[Floris Didden]

Avatar, it's a beauty, everything seems to shine a bit, even the legs, reminds me of certain type of really beatiful shiny shells. Can't remember the name, it has a similar colour scheme as well.

[emily g]

Craig D--Nice, this is looking pretty good.
fin--you're right, I forgot about the rider. I am just fine with the change you made.
legs--I'll give you the same advice I gave dCepT. The leg anatomy is tricky, so make sure you check out some references when you do your final.
neck--what is the dark pattern you put around the neck? I think I'd rather have you go back to what you had before.
tail--ok, I'm going to be an annoying client and change my mind about those two stripes I put on the tail on the last step. Just do it as I have drawn out here.

This is approved. You can move on to the next step.

emily

[emily g]

Profil--this is great, I like what you did with the tenticles. I don't have any changes, so there's no need for me to upload a pic. This is approved and you can move on to the next step.

Floris--What you did with the rider is just perfect. Is this meant to be your step 3 (honed drawing)? Or is it supposed to be your final? I think I'll hold off comments until you reply, because my comments would be different depending on which step it is.

emily

[Floris Didden]

It would be the honed drawing, but I seem to have missed the part where it should be B&W? I thought I'd make this, get crits on it and tweak it for the final presentation.

[Avatar]

Here are some corrections Emily. The one you suggested with the shoulder, I modified a bit the eye using your suggestion and adding some ideea of my own. also made the horn behind the mane less obviouse and change the color of the shoulder scales to a bluish shade.

Floris, thanks for your apreciations. Tried to go as near as possible to a pearly look.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/Avatarr/Waterlope3color3.jpg

[emily g]

Ah yes, this is perfect! I love your changes and I love what you did with the eye! Wonderful!

emily

[Mike Corriero]

Just a suggestion for you Emily G
I originally was going to post everyones FINALS after the FINAL deadline in a new thread, just so their all next to each other cleanly presented as a showcase for the final designs. It would be a new thread here in the community activities section. Then people could comment on them all..

Unless people do not want that kind of exposure.

[emily g]

I think that's a great idea, Mike. Everyone here has accomplished so much, I think it would be great to showcase all of that work together.

thanks,
emily

[dCepT]

Mike, Emily: Sounds like a good idea! I'm all for making a new thread with the finished pieces :)

d-C

[infinitemonkey]

If there's a second Creature Design Process 101 in the future, count me in! I'm seriously impressed by what I've seen here, much respect for Mike and Emily and everyone who makes it to the final stage!

[Gloominati]

okay so here is my final image:

http://people.freenet.de/glominatisart/18-12-05(1).jpg

[Mike Corriero]

Gloominati@- I had some time this morning so I thought I would just make some suggestions. You can push this a lot further and you have some time still, so I would say to put it to good use.
Use some brighter highlights of your colors in areas where the muscles and form of the creature would pop out most to make him more 3-dimensional and to add more color to his overall appearance. Also fix the faint horn so it matches the one in the foreground and clean up any "dirty" looking marks around the design. The texture you used at the bottom was too crisp and harsh that is was distracting from the design, and add some extra white space around the image so it doesn't feel so "cropped". Let the design breathe a bit with some extra space ;)
For the final, don't put any type on the image except for " copyright ©2005 Gloominati" or your "real name" whatever it might be. Just use a "small" font size and put it at the lower right or left of the image.

[Gloominati]

Thanks for all the crits, Mike, I'll do what you want, master ;) :D

Whew there is still so much to learn, back to work :D ..........

[Gloominati]

Okay I made the changes. I hope that I haven't pushed it too far, lol

http://people.freenet.de/glominatisart/18-12-05(2).jpg

[MindCandyMan]

http://www.mindcandyman.com/jons_uploads/creaturedesign_final.jpg

This was hard :yayca:

[Inkfish]

here is my final version. Thank you Mike and Emily for taking the time to do this activity, it has been very educational and fun.

I liked this assignment because of the strict deadlines (so i couldn't slack off ;)) and because the topic was way off my comfort zone. Thanks again!

Sweet stuff allaround, i think Floris Didien has a kickass piece, can't wait to see the final version.

--http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/inkfish/waterlope_final.jpg

[brokk]

Great work! Avatar yours is the one I like best, it looks so lovely!
Floris Didden's one I like a lot too, it looks very regal and strong.

Thank you very much emily g, and thanks to mikecorriero again. I hope you're getting better man.

Can't wait to see the post with everyone's finished work. Excellent work guys.

[Craig D]

Hey all
everyone's turning out really grest stuff.
I'm a few hours from being finished but wanted to throw this here for comments while I still have time left.

Besides the thumbs this will be my first photoshoped piece so any and all comments are appreciated.
thanks, Craig
http://www.clubwebcanada.ca/cdaniels/finalwtrialversion.jpg

[emily g]

Oh my goodness, Floris, I seemed to have missed your reply. I'm sorry about that--here's my comments on your step 3.

overall colors: I feel you are getting away from the color scheme in your last step. That scheme had turquoise, yellow, green and black, with just a little bit of gold on the horns/hooves. In this picture here, you have less turquoise and a whole lot more gold and orange throughout the whole creature. Perhaps you were trying to unify things, but I think this is leading to muddy colors, especially in the shadows. I marked some of these areas with blue. The colors in your last step were a lot more pure, I felt.
overall design: I think your design, especially the swirls, was a lot clearer in your last step as well. Some of that is getting lost here, I think.
black: The way you are using black is confusing to me. I can't always tell if something is in shadow, or if it's actually black. For example, I marked in red an area where the black is really flattening the form and causing confusion. I want you to remember your light source and make sure it looks consistent.

You have a great design here, I'm excited to see how the final turns out. Don't lose the great stuff you had going on in your previous step.

emily

[emily g]

MindCandyMan--your final turned out great! I love the way the head and horns turned out. They are very striking.

I just wanted to show you that you can put a wider range of values in your piece. The creature will still look black, but this way it is easier to see the form and to see those details of the legs that otherwise get lost in the blackness.

Great job,
emily

[MindCandyMan]

Thanks emily I appreciate that paint over! I was hoping for that. I was having trouble trying to keep it black and communicate the form properly. Thank you so much for helping out with this thread it was great to get to finish and we all really appreciate taking SOOO much time to help us. Mike if you are reading this you RULE TOO MAN! Thanks so much guys I have learned a lot doing this!

[emily g]

Inkfish--I'm really happy with how your final turned out. I just have a couple of comments you might want to think about.

colors--I think it might be nice to brighten up the fins with some brighter pinks and oranges, maybe put a few blues in (like around the neck) to break up the monotony of green.
spine--make sure this looks like it's in the center.
fin--I put a red arrow here because you got a little sloppy and are letting your lines show through a bit. :)
tail--I noticed that you had a color transition here in your color rough, and I think it might be nice to add it back in.
back leg--your anatomy was really nice and clear in your b&w, but it seems you lost it a bit when you added the color.

Good job.
emily

[Mike Corriero]

You guys are all welcome, thanks for the comments of appreciation.
Emily, thanks again for taking over.

I'm glad that you guys stuck it out and it will be nice to see the finals presented in their own thread after taking a look back at the thumbnails.

[Gloominati]

ahm...*cough* and what about mine???......


just noticed that I forgot the copyright thing, so here it is:

http://people.freenet.de/glominatisart/19-12-05(1).jpg

[emily g]

Gloominati: What? You want more comments? Just kidding. :) I guess I need to officially approve you.
Mike gave you some great comments that I agree with. I just want to point out that you should remember your midtones. Build your forms carefully using shadows, midtones, and highlights so you get the full rounded effect.

Good job.
emily

[emily g]

Craig D: Here's a few comments on your piece as you finish it up.
I tried to show how you could add shadows to make the form more rounded. I also used a small brush with a really low opacity to show how you might add some hair texture.
The two purple strokes just show how you can make something (like a fin) transparent. I just put the top stroke on its own layer and turned the layer opacity down to 50%.

emily

[Floris Didden]

Emily, thanks a lot for the crits, you're spot on. My cornern with the previous step was that it looked too "robotic", not real enough to me. I tried to make it look more like it's made out of flesh and blood and lost some of the hard contrasts from the previous step.

Mike and Emily, thanks again for this awesome experience.

[emily g]

My cornern with the previous step was that it looked too "robotic", not real enough to me. I tried to make it look more like it's made out of flesh and blood and lost some of the hard contrasts from the previous step.
Hmm, I understand what you're saying. It sounds like you tried to add a sense of life to the creature by adding the warm colors. Personally, I liked the original colors because I thought it made the creature look like a beautiful but fragile piece of jewelry. We all have our different ways of looking at things, I guess. :)

emily

[PHATandy]

If theres anything that needs changing and stuff... i gues i can do it before the end of the day...

http://www.andydesign.co.uk/best/waterlope6.jpg

[Evil_Sloth]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/Evil_Sloth/final_drawing.jpg
sorry this took so long :(

[Craig D]

Here's my final
1- big thanks to Emily and Mike for this. I did learn a lot.
2- if we have time before these are posted into a new thread to make revisions that would be great.
Craig
http://www.clubwebcanada.ca/cdaniels/waterlopefinal4.jpg

[Mike Corriero]

I'm going to leave the rest of the comments and crits to Emily G - Just wanted to say, one thing I would have possible had you guys do, or to at least suggest for your future designs is, once you reach the stage of the Honed Drawing. Take the design and put it in a 3/4 perspective action pose, or at least a 3/4 pose so it's more interesting than a profile shot. ;) - that goes for "some of you" not all of you since some did do that.

Today as far as I know is the last day, unless emily g is on a different time zone, at any rate, good luck to everyone in finishing and I'm really proud of how this turned out.

[Craig D]

Funny you brought that up Mike. I kept thinking about that but didn't do anything about it. i think that's partly why I think my design is so fucking boring. Oh well, next time...

[dCepT]

Hey guys... here's my final.

I just wanted to give a HUGE thank you to both Mike and Emily for doing this, I've learnt lots, and I hope there will be more of these activities to come!

I'm impressed with how people have pushed themselves with this.. good lookin' out ya'll!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/dCepT/Assignements/WaterlopeFinalWeb2.jpg

[EDIT] Mike: You're totally right about the 3/4 view instead of a profile... That adds to the list of stuff I've learnt from this... hehe... thanks, man! I posted the honed drawing in my sketchbook as well, and I got a suggestion that I should do some movementstudies of it, and I probably will.. just to take the concept further.. I think that might add some more to it if I'm gonna put it in my portfolio.

d-C

[Profil]

Thank you all for the nice comments.
Thank you Mike and Emelie, I have really learnt a ton of new things, I will continue these steps by myself, because it's truly a good way to design creatures.

I'm embaressed by my final, this was my first time doing coloring work on a creature. I can say that I had private issues to deal with before I could do this, but it isn't a valid excuse.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a348/Profil_deluxe/bc93115e.jpg

[MindCandyMan]

just look at the beginning of my huge thread profil...that'll give you some laughs...nothing to be embarassed about. If you see problems with it...that's a good thing...then you can fix them later and work on it. You shouldn't be ashamed. That's why this thread is here...it isn't professional. Mine isn't at a professional level by any means. A professional would probably laugh at mine. We are all learning.

[PHATandy]

I couldnt agree more... i think i like my design and stuff. but to me some obvious flaws in my final piece are that.

it doesnt look very clean
its not sharp - to blurry/smooth - no texture
the colours arent sort of as tropical/strong as i wanted.

Anyways, i really like some of the stuff here. mind candy man's your design is real cool, and the form is great. maybe not to exotic in color tho.GJ

Floris Didden.. i think i really like yours. The colours are great.. really tropical.

Thanks alot to you Mike and Emily. Its been really fun, and now if i maybe touch some stuff up i can put it in my portfolio.

Thanks again. andy.

[Profil]

Thanks, I know the perspective/colors/values etc are bad at mine, but hey, at least I will do better next time.

I'm saving all my crits and comments to later if that's ok, to the big thread? Btw I really like the rich darks MCM you have in your design.