PostModernism:what is next?

[TrevorDemented]

I'm doing a paper for art history. The subject is an exploration of what is next after the postmodern period of art and history. I chose this topic because in studying the many periods of art the logical question is what is next after this period and what will lead us to the next step. This is a fascinating time historically and technology. Many of the rules set by the humanist of the Renaissance and enlightenment thinkers have been broken and abandoned, the world is getting smaller and smaller as we all merge, geo-politics seems to be setting the stage for WW3 and WW4, man and machine are beginning to become one and the same and many other things that make our time unique.

Will we all find ourselves going back to simpler times thus coming to a classical art?

Will the cultures of the world just segregate more and more having their own point of view of morality and critical thinking, a good example is the struggle of west and middle east, the rejection of postmodern culture and western pop culture by islamic fundamentalist? Will post modernism lead to more fundamentalist and extremist since cultures are merging leading to cultures losing their uniqueness and 'purity'?

Will we see greater examples of humanity having great technology and knowledge but a lack of wisdom and gross example of this lack of wisdom?


There are many problems that exist and I believe that the artist are the front runners in guiding humanity as we are the conscious of humanity. We are going to be the ones to write, paint, sculpt and film the course of the evolution human conscious. I feel that we make or break the sum of humanity.

Whats your opinion?

[NoSeRider]

Comic book art seems to be heading towards a Audrey Beardsley Art Nouveau kinda feel........maybe not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aubrey_Beardsley

[DavePalumbo]

There's a musician named Billy Childish who fancies himself something of an artist. Though I love his music, I personally dont go for his paintings. That's neither here nor there. He claims to have pioneered the last (or latest) art movement: Stuckism (http://www.stuckism.com/).

Personally I think it's alot of bullshit, but some good fodder for a school paper. And hasn't every art movement of the past 50 years been founded on bullshit anyhow?

[Dizon]

Classical Realism or Contemporary Realism? I'd say it's a combination of Classicism and just plain Realism without much of the idealization.

The Moderns have hit the wall.

[madplanet]

There are many problems that exist and I believe that the artist are the front runners in guiding humanity as we are the conscious of humanity. We are going to be the ones to write, paint, sculpt and film the course of the evolution human conscious. I feel that we make or break the sum of humanity.

So, are we guiding the course or are we just recorders and interpreters of it?

[0kelvin]

It's almost impossible to say where art is going to go at any given time. It's usually a rebellion against the current state of art, but it's hard to tell what form it will take. Although, post-modernism is rather vague, and is based largely around the concept of rebellion, which makes it difficult to rebel against.

It's hard to imagine a shift away from post-modernist thought in the near future. It's a product of the society we live in. I think it will take a radical shift in society to change it. Through new technology redefining the way we live, perhaps, or a particularly significant event that changes the way we think (many point to the World Wars as the early origin of post-modernism).



0kelvin

[dogfood]

...we are the conscious of humanity.
I'm sorry, but that one made me laugh. I'm not sure if you realize how pretentious that sounds (and is). I would have to say that the news media trumps the arteest in pushing around mass thought (as painful as it is to admit).

I feel that we make or break the sum of humanity.
I can't wait for you to get about 15 years older and reread this. Oh, you are going to be sooooo embarrassed. Either that, or you'll be walking around with a permanent wedgie and living with 23 cats.

[NoSeRider]

Well, I had a CalArts teacher say "Artists are the spirit of society. Artists touch the soul of the person."

That is, artists are manipulative SOB's that try to jerk your emotions around....that's my cynical translation.......and hopefully you think it's funny.

I don't know.

[Elwell]

In the coming complete social and economic breakdown there will be no place for art.

[Vader]

I believe that we will regress back trough the many periods of development. People will start to realise the importance of the more classical periods. In the most simplistic terms it’s the question, what do we do when we reach our limits? We analyse how we got there, head back to the start and then find alternative methods of progression. We need to learn to appreciate the development of art and the many sub divisions within that title.

The markets of art, graphics etc are saturated due to an increase in popularity. Institutes need to reconstruct the artistic curriculum so that they are more selective with their applicants. This in turn would increase the quality of the skills.
I feel that the reason we have not had any many developments within art over the last fifty years is because of the decrease in the academic structure. I cannot stress how important it is that if you wish to be true to your field you must study everything.

[madster]

It sure sounds nice that the pendulum would swing back towards "quality" art, and, to some extent, that IS occurring...(Check out the Art Renewal Center (http://www.artrenewal.org/)). But, the sad truth is that the "don't wanna study, don't wanna practice, every brush stroke is a masterpiece" crowd is gaining speed.

"LowBrow Art" is gaining in popularity by leaps and bounds, but just as any other movement, some artists are more successful at it than others.

There will be a period of time when the line between wal-mart schlock from china, and talentless "artiste" schlock will become so blurred that crappy looking fake art will be imported from third-world countries, sold at fabulously affordable prices, and young people will fill forums with clone drawings of the crap...

Oh what a wonderful world that will be...

~M

[Tully]

Will we all find ourselves going back to simpler times thus coming to a classical art?


Since when is classical art simple!? It takes a hell of a lot more skill, and thus work, to draw a decent human figure than what a lot of contemporary artists have done. It's a totally different mindset.

I don't think art today could possibly go back to how it was in, say, the 19th century or the with the romans/greeks. Back then painting was one of the main forms of social critique and commentary. Today, your average joe never steps into a gallery. He sits in front of his TV and he goes to movies. It's documentaries like Bowling for Columbine, shows like Threat Matrix (a piece of terror propaganda if ever I saw one) and the newsmedia that are really going to influence people.

There's also not the need (as such) in the fine art world to draw a realistic human figure. If somebody wants a piece of art to put up on their wall of a realistic human, they might as well get a nice photograph.

Art needs a different purpose, and so far I don't think it's totally got a hold of one. We always have commercial art, and that's important for most of us here, but I think art it has to be something more than just a method of self-expression. Otherwise it's just intellectual masturbation and won't say anything to the majority of people.

What I hope is whatever we decide comes after post-modernism, it'll be more open to every sort of art. Realism, abstraction, non-representational stuff, and also have appropriate education widely available for young artists to learn what they need to learn for their own goals.

[Ilaekae]

Art doesn't exist in a vacuum.

The "next" movement can't be predicted at all because such movements are only recognized in retrospect, and they are generally (if they're TRUE movements) in reaction to the human condition as it exists affecting/forcing artists to react to what they see as a problem or benefit that they can feel comfortable dealing with. A "movement" will become come into being and obvious when it is needed...

Based on historical references, this has nothing to do with realism, classicism, modernism, etc., but the best way to react to contemporary non-art influences on the creatives. A door is opened and someone says, "Wha'thefuck?" What comes next artistically is the result of either "NICE!" or "Ugh!"

Again, based on historical references, we CAN make some "possible" predictions, all of which are probably DEAD WRONG...

1. Art will become even more propaganda-oriented and possibly take on the appearance of rapidly-produced posters due to the unsettled political situation. This has already started, and could advance to something similar to the art of the "underground" early soviet or US late 60s-early 70s. Easy computer access and generation will make this even easier and quicker than in the past.

2. A reaction may build to a point where contempt for "corporate" sterility in art and architecture will force some artsts into re-acquiring a passion for "craft," in order to counter the mass-produced world they are forced to survive in. This could show itself as a return to "primitive" and "decorative" arts as influences, as it did in the early 20th century. One-of-a-kind will become the rule, and true hands-on will be valued over polished precision.

3. A "luddite" backlash may form as the computer-driven art world starts to show its muscle on a broad scale. The art world might just split into two different camps, with a number of smaller "compromise" groups circling, one pushing the computer-generated artifact to the front, while the other returns to "pure" hands-on only.

One thing that will HAVE to be done is a realignment of definitions. The number of threads discussing "whether this is sculpture/fine/true art" in this forum alone attests to that. Personally, I see the two fields--comp and non-comp-- each reinforcing their own peculiar presence and approaches to art, then "cleaning house" to prove it. Both the non-trained person with big machine/software capability AND the non-trained non-comp pseudo artist will be shamed into learning the "proper" techniques and such before they become accepted. Sadly, I see the possibility here of the comp-only people becoming extremely conservative in approaches to art (classic realism ONLY accepted) because of the ease of using software to execute non-realistic artifacts. This alone could force the two camps into two different and diametrically opposed approaches to the creative process.

I'll be honest here, and mention that that last sentance was a warning to some of you guys here to become a little more tolerant of other approaches. The artist NEEDS an unfettered exposure to EVERY influence in order to develope properly. We need each other in order to become unique.

[Jason Snair]

wow Ilaekae, well put & well thought out too.

I could totally see each one of your 3 predictions coming true...but you're right they probably won't.

-j.

[madster]

Funny, I see them as already happening to some degree...

Ilaekae, you didn't address the quality of the "one of a kind" artworks...

My comments regarding Lowbrow Art are based upon trends in many "concrete" galleries, where the line of definition for such works is terribly blurred. I think it was on the ARC site where I read a commentary regarding making some sort of "expressive" artworks filled with metal screws. Not long ago, I wandered through a gallery with wall pieces embodying that exact description...with pricetags averaging about $300.

There is becoming such a large and diverse population on this planet, that almost any and every type of "artistic expression" is not only "allowed" or "tolerated," but sometimes even actively encouraged.

The problem is one of quality. So much of these "expressive genres" are merely visual masturbation. The basics of Composition and Design are not mastered and then purposely distorted for effect, they are poorly rendered from the get go, with the ready excuse of "Expression" used to justify the sorry technical skills.

CA is one of a diminishing number of sites that still works from a standpoint of Technical Skill in full equality with Imagination. It will be interesting to see how the pendulum swings with the proliferation of "push button" applications that enable even basic skill-deficient people to create humans, environments, etc., and then paint over them with Painter's Clone effect...

~M

[Flake]

It will be interesting to see how the pendulum swings with the proliferation of "push button" applications that enable even basic skill-deficient people to create humans, environments, etc., and then paint over them with Painter's Clone effect...
~M

By "push button" applications, I imagine you're referring to the likes of Poser, Terragen and Vue D'Esprit? If so, most cg types can spot those a mile off- they just always seem to have a "look", obviously painting over them makes it harder to see but I think someone who knew what they're looking for (admittedly, this is not most people) would spot that kind of thing most times whether just by eyeballing it or tinkering with levels etc.

-Flake

Edit: Ilaekae, great post as usual.. :yayca:

[AndyLC]

In the coming complete social and economic breakdown there will be no place for art.

When motorcycle tribes rule the wasteland of the apocalypse, they need people to design sporty mohawks and spikey shoulder pads. Don't forget cool face paint for those feeling especially bold. Artists will devolve into a stunted midgety form suitable to form living accessories to their musclelords.


why bother with talking about where art will go next? I wonder if chefs get together and think "man, where will food be in the future?"
I bet chefs don't need to study the age of porridge or the great restaurant revolution changed their craft, they just cook tasty food. Why can't art be like that.

Fish icecream, that's where it's going.




"There is becoming such a large and diverse population on this planet, that almost any and every type of "artistic expression" is not only "allowed" or "tolerated," but sometimes even actively encouraged."

I don't think I've ever learned anything in art classes k-12. And now everyone's crudely rendering 'anime style', which just ruins it for everyone. It'd be like if the NBA was run like gym class.

[Flake]

When motorcycle tribes rule the wasteland of the apocalypse, they need people to design sporty mohawks and spikey shoulder pads. Don't forget cool face paint for those feeling especially bold. Artists will devolve into a stunted midgety form suitable to form living accessories to their musclelords.


I for one look forward to roaming the wastelands in a tooled up dune buggy, listening to Tupac and wearing assless leather chaps exchanging tribal tattoos for gasoline.

-Flake

[Interceptor]

I can actually see this going a very strange way. I don't think it'll positively turn out this way, though. But at the rate things are going, I see more concept artists and commercial illustrators being the main crowd that really studies and wants to grow. Where as the younger generation (with exceptions of course) will simply scribble paints onto canvas and proclaim they are the new, more emotionally refined artist. And will therefore think thier art is a grand spectacle free from crits and flaws. I see "FINE ART" starting to lose it's credibility and value to those who want to seriously pursue art. This is a worst case scenario as I see it... but a plausible one, nonetheless.

[Ilaekae]

"Ilaekae, you didn't address the quality of the "one of a kind" artworks..."

Mad', I assumed that quality would be a given in the context I was writing. Actually, I was thinking more of the artists who now deal only with exclusive "artsy gallery" art becoming more involved in the commonplace. One of a kind lamps, chairs, wall-pieces, decorated walls and facades rather than paint-&-wallpaper. Calder made children's toys for his family and kitchen tools for his wife, for example. I'm making my wife two jewelry boxes, and using up scrap wood from my studio construction to make lamps and little storage boxes that are gessoed and painted in intricate patterns. Kind of keeps my hand skills operational...

[Monkeylizard]

neo-post-modernism
:x

[Ilaekae]

Digital neo-cubism merged with post-Byzantine pre-Renaissance surealism with mayo and a dill pickle...

[TrevorDemented]

I'm not going to take time to respond to everyone but here is my reply.

I think that seeing how the world is going down the tubes in so many respects ( the war on terrorism, globalization, ethnic conflicts, the clash of west and middle east, the Iraq war's debilitating affect on the U.S. etc) I can't believe that none of you tied that into the equation of what is next after postmodernism or the next phase of postmoderism.

I would like to see more people but especially artist begin to speak truth and common sense to power. And if you do agree with people like President Bush then even say that (though I rather you don't). The economy is changing so much now that it is harder for people to achieve the American dream because everyone in the globe wants to achieve that dream and wants a piece of the pie in the sky that most westerners thought was theirs exclusively. Globalization (which really includes the war on terrorism and all mid east conflicts) is REAL to us in the states. Prices at the pump make that very clear. And consider some of the bleak possibilities in the not so distant future when it comes down civil liberties, homeland security, the patriot act and all of the other things that seem to signify totalitarianism.

I would figure that artist would be impacted by all of the bad things that are taking place some of those things threaten all of our professions considering that fanatics may band some art.

Another thing is that I'm really at present not a fan of non-objective art maybe that will change as my art education expands. But for me I don't see the usefulness in a things that don't exist or crazy line and blots of paint. And most students I meet don't like it either maybe thats a genX thing because all of my professors seem to do that stuff but most of us seem to have a visceral fustration with trying to see something that really doesn't look like its their. I rather look at something that I immediately understand which is a symptom (or strength) of coming from an Mtv/Nintendo/fastfood perspective. And I find that laid people (non artist) don't understand that stuff either. I want to do work that everyone will understand and appreciate . I understand that Picasso and Kandinsky are into spiritual elements in their art, and just the essentials and universal ideas but the average joe doesn't like it or get it.

Why would I be inspired to do work that only a few rich snobs with more money than God which they only buy to look artsy and smart because nobody understands what heck it is in the first place or it matches their bauhaus style couch.

Hope that this type of crap stops and we begin to touch real people all over the world and maybe do some good enlight of all of the craziness afoot.
That is the future and the 1st step into the the next period.

[Blue]

He claims to have pioneered the last (or latest) art movement: Stuckism (http://www.stuckism.com/).
that website almost burned out my retinas.. yikes! :^^;:

[Elwell]

I think that seeing how the world is going down the tubes in so many respects ( the war on terrorism, globalization, ethnic conflicts, the clash of west and middle east, the Iraq war's debilitating affect on the U.S. etc) I can't believe that none of you tied that into the equation of what is next after postmodernism or the next phase of postmoderism.
I did.

[0kelvin]

I think that seeing how the world is going down the tubes in so many respects ( the war on terrorism, globalization, ethnic conflicts, the clash of west and middle east, the Iraq war's debilitating affect on the U.S. etc) I can't believe that none of you tied that into the equation of what is next after postmodernism or the next phase of postmoderism.

Except that post-modernism was a reaction to the world going down the tubes. And so was modernism. And so was pretty much every art movement that preceded that. The world has been going down the tubes since we learned how to stand. And yet, somehow it's a nicer place to live than ever before.



0kelvin

[TrevorDemented]

Except that post-modernism was a reaction to the world going down the tubes. And so was modernism. And so was pretty much every art movement that preceded that. The world has been going down the tubes since we learned how to stand. And yet, somehow it's a nicer place to live than ever before.



0kelvin


But the stakes are getting higher infact they are getting too high and it seems that all of the niceness is going out of the window and I don't see anyone really reacting at all or atleast not in a way that makes people wake up.

[Steinmetz]

Well Ilakae said that we'll only be able to put a label on it in retrospect, but if you really want an answer, it'll be the neo post modernists or something stupid like that. If I were you I wouldn't get my panties in a bunch, sister. lol

[dogfood]

I've been following this in fidgety silence and have a couple notes:

1) Listen to Ilaekae. Predicting what future Art Historians will make of this or the next "movement" is akin to estimating the size of the Pacific Ocean by swimming in the middle of it. With the mystical gift of absolute clarity, it may be possible to pick out important moments and motivators with historical significance, but only just. Without this imaginary human condition, it's an exercise in academic vanity.

"It is tough to make predictions, especially about the future."—Yogi Berra

2) 0kelvin is right. Each generation, at some time, sees the world going to pot, each certain it is more dire than the last time. That doesn't mean it isn't more serious this time (because, by the very nature of my statement, I think it is), but that each artistic movement has had elements that felt this way. Don't tell me people weren't certain of universal destruction during WWI (especially with the Swine Flu taking down 50 million world-wide and economies collapsing across the civilized world). What may affect us more this time is the torrential flow of information. With the constant stream of calamitous news from all over the world, I don't know how so many of us stay so cheerful (human nature is fascinating).

Obviously I don’t think this is going to affect your paper, as you’ve already chosen it and may have already turned it in, but simply wanted to support a couple of the more salient comments.

I hope it went well. Above anything else, the thinking and writing are pretty strong mental exercises.

[JoshuaTheJames]

In the coming complete social and economic breakdown there will be no place for art.

Haha. Awesome...



But, guys... I'm sure Marko has something up his sleeve.

Post Apocalyptic Modernism!



Just kidding Marko I lurv you even if you don't lurv me...

-JtJ

[Chingwa]

In the coming complete social and economic breakdown there will be no place for art.

I encourage everyone to buy a gun (http://www.berettausa.com/product/product_pistols_main.htm) while it's still legal. Killing is an artform too.....

[llothcat]

Art doesn't exist in a vacuum.

The "next" movement can't be predicted at all because such movements are only recognized in retrospect, and they are generally (if they're TRUE movements) in reaction to the human condition as it exists affecting/forcing artists to react to what they see as a problem or benefit that they can feel comfortable dealing with. A "movement" will become come into being and obvious when it is needed...

Based on historical references, this has nothing to do with realism, classicism, modernism, etc., but the best way to react to contemporary non-art influences on the creatives. A door is opened and someone says, "Wha'thefuck?" What comes next artistically is the result of either "NICE!" or "Ugh!"

Again, based on historical references, we CAN make some "possible" predictions, all of which are probably DEAD WRONG...

1. Art will become even more propaganda-oriented and possibly take on the appearance of rapidly-produced posters due to the unsettled political situation. This has already started, and could advance to something similar to the art of the "underground" early soviet or US late 60s-early 70s. Easy computer access and generation will make this even easier and quicker than in the past.

2. A reaction may build to a point where contempt for "corporate" sterility in art and architecture will force some artsts into re-acquiring a passion for "craft," in order to counter the mass-produced world they are forced to survive in. This could show itself as a return to "primitive" and "decorative" arts as influences, as it did in the early 20th century. One-of-a-kind will become the rule, and true hands-on will be valued over polished precision.

3. A "luddite" backlash may form as the computer-driven art world starts to show its muscle on a broad scale. The art world might just split into two different camps, with a number of smaller "compromise" groups circling, one pushing the computer-generated artifact to the front, while the other returns to "pure" hands-on only.

One thing that will HAVE to be done is a realignment of definitions. The number of threads discussing "whether this is sculpture/fine/true art" in this forum alone attests to that. Personally, I see the two fields--comp and non-comp-- each reinforcing their own peculiar presence and approaches to art, then "cleaning house" to prove it. Both the non-trained person with big machine/software capability AND the non-trained non-comp pseudo artist will be shamed into learning the "proper" techniques and such before they become accepted. Sadly, I see the possibility here of the comp-only people becoming extremely conservative in approaches to art (classic realism ONLY accepted) because of the ease of using software to execute non-realistic artifacts. This alone could force the two camps into two different and diametrically opposed approaches to the creative process.

I'll be honest here, and mention that that last sentance was a warning to some of you guys here to become a little more tolerant of other approaches. The artist NEEDS an unfettered exposure to EVERY influence in order to develope properly. We need each other in order to become unique.

All I can say is the #3 is happening already.

Also there's seems to be a plague of complete lack of imagination in this next generation. If it's not on TV, they don't imagine it. Hence the anime thing going on right now.

Between Dragon ball z scribbles and gang tagging, there's little room for actual art teaching, because the students simply don't want to know. They're taught early on art teachers don't know anything.

(I had a long term art class to teach at the middle school level a while back, and my it's lessons seared my brain.)

[waronmars]

post-post-modernism

[Koen]

Neo-dadaism, or Laibach. Wont be a breakthrough but they are possible.

http://www.nskstate.com/laibach/laibach-posters.php

kind of similiar to Bauhaus, constructuvism and expressionism. It's laibach

[Gnosis]

Nothing is next. "Periods" are constructed in retrospect. The world, the sum of all individuals, is just way to chaotic, so a selection is made by The Elite fifty years from now, after WWIII.
In the following decades communications- and information-technology will continue to advance, along with artificial intelligence, eventually leading to The Singularity, somewhere around 2040. Then the cyborgs will take over, and the cyborgs have no need for art. They will destroy the world as we know it, and will then start colonizing the galaxy and the universe.

Sorry, my head is a mess right now. Need sleep. Need food.