i would KILL to be an artist!!!!1111 (heated fucking rant)

[Magic Man]

[heated rant]

You ever get this? I know our profession is cool, its cool beyond words, I'm beyond ecstatic on a daily basis that I get to do this for a living...but when people say "I would KILL to be doing what you are doing!" I get a little peeved.

Firstly, no, you would not fucking kill to do what I do, because you wouldn't even give up drinking on the weekends and wasting away your nights watching TV. You are not up until 3am in the morning studying the complexity that is the human form in all its varied and complex systems. You are not running through endless reels of paper trying to understand a design concept that simply will no click, you are not sacrificing your personal time to constantly move your art to a higher level, you are not building your motor skills to a fine point by thousands of repetition.

Thats the trouble with a lot of people I feel, they would KILL to have something that takes a lot of work to get to, if they could have that thing magically in the form of a "red pill". Its the reason why people buy lottery tickets, its the reason why people put up with shit jobs they hate and end up dying a wasted life bitching about it until the bitter end.

If people understood the level of sacrifice most artists has to endure, they would NOT be envious, but we occupy a higher ground and plane of awareness that I feel many other people are not forced to develop.

The other day I got rid of one of my jr artists, because they simply were not pulling their weight - this girl was hired before I was instated as an art director and I was lumped with this pathetic excuse for an artist.

We are a small start up company and as such its understandable that everyone needs to pull their weight, this simply was not happening with this girl, she is everything I dispise and it took 6 months to finally convince the company director to jetison her lazy untalented ass out of our domain.

She was hired on the basis that the director talked to her about game development before me, and thus had a moral obligation to hire her - he's a religious dude with strong "morality" for better or worse.

Hers was was prototypical manga bullshit with no understanding of the human anatomy, incorrect placement of muscles and everything else under the sun. Had zero aesthetic skill understanding - although she TOOK aesthetics as a subject in industrial design, had no understanding of proportion, perspective, color theory ANYTHING. She slumbered on the job - literally slept under the fucking table at work George Kostanza style, and still had the guile to play it off like it was nothing. Never took any of my advice and continued on her merry way.

It was under my charge to improve her to a respectable level...I couldn't fucking believe it. This bitch had been given a get out of jail card, and she still had no idea how easy she had it, her skills will never get her into any illustration job again, she will not be having anything shy of a 100% negative reference from me, to top it all off she had a poor self esteem, she had bulemia and she got into arguments with other staff members who were doing their job AND took this job for granted.

I'm sorry, but none of your fuckups are my fucking problem, when we got rid of her she was crying, you know what? Cruel as it sounds, it gave me a lot of satisfaction and I found it hilarious, maybe she'd realise how much of a fucking loser she is and pull her finger out of her ass and do something with her goddamn life instead of moping about pissing people off with her compacency and laziness.

What really got me while she remained employed, what REALLY fucking got my blood boiling, what really pulled my fucking noodle was this: there are people on this site who give 400% of their effort and draw constantly to improve their skills, yet illustration and concept design is a field of enormously high barriers to entry and thus high unemployment rate - most artists have to do something else to sustain themselves.

Yet this lazy ass smart alec took her position for granted, a position that people would seriously wish for, like many of you guys here who put in so much effort and inspire me on a daily basis.

I don't really know what I'm ranting about anymore, but I do want to give a kudos to all of you out in cyberland and the amount of hard work your guys do.

For those of you who are not yet in the field, I implore you to never take things easy, never for once be satisfied with your skills, never once think of this as your birthright but a priveledge that so few will ever experience, an opening to a world of imagination to the lay person, it is a priviledge and your devine obligation to work hard to help people escape their mundane worlds, understand that you carry upon your shoulders the manner in which we will enter the future and you will inevitably drive yourself forwards in a more dedicated fashion.

The sacrifices that only we as artists understand are what sets us apart from other people, when you question yourself - and you will - "is this all worth it!?" only you can answer that question, if the answer isn't a resounding yes, then you should question whether you are pursuing the right field, because when the shit hits the fan and teh going gets tough, if you're not in this for the long haul and prepared to travel through hell before reaching nirvana, then when you hit a rough patch you will break and you will look for a way out.

m

[/end pointless heated rant]

[Shamagim]

AYe aye..

Must say i agree with ye, people just love to have things the easy way and the preach about how much are they willing to give up for it, and they will never be strong enought to give up anything.....People need to realize that you can´t have anything witout making sacrifices, but people just want everything XD, is dumb because nobody as the time to have everything.


Personally i wake up 8 AM in the morning, i get my place toghether, feed the cat, the dog, take some break fast and i have everything set and ready to work by 9 , and i keep that up untill 3 or 4 am.

Rest for me in either take a look in here for inspiration or just to see what is in today´s artistic minds, research about any subject to improve my design qualitys, do practice sketches or to spend some time with my family. I only see "Point pleasent" here on thusdays becuase i think the protagonist is just to damn beautyfull, and i love the psicological dramma, but besides from that, tv is off.

I dont hang out with anybody, i dont drink, smoke, or have any vice whatsoever. I used to play video games, and now i just deleted any evidence of having them.

I know what i have, i know what i had, and i know what i can have, and i did make some sacrifices to push my work to the next levels.....And im willing to make some more, just becuase it was my choice.

My social life is 80% composed of taking care of my cat, i dont have time for people and i my idea of friend is someone that draws besides me, helps me and alows me to help him, thing that i dont have and im not especting to have.

And though i dont have any social life, friends, games or vices, i never been so damn happy in my entire life.......art is EVERYTHING to me, and i dont seem to need anything else.

Xd, now i got kinda late on the shedulle for this, but ill keept it up from now.



Ah, and as for the gal you fired, i cant help to feel sorry for her, i hope she grows up after this and make the right choice about waht to do with her life from that point on

[Magic Man]

...I seriously wished half you you people lived in my damn country.

[BlackGuy]

Not having any friends seems a little unhealthy to me and I think I will always take time to maintain those bonds. That and my fondness for inebriation may hold me back just a bit. *cough*

But honestly I don't see why you actually get ANGRY about it when people say "they'd kill to be an artist". They're just trying to say that they admire you for developing your talent and pursuing what you love, which is something most other people don't do and wish that they had later on. I don't know what it is about some of you guys here, but you manage to twist compliments into personal insults and actually get pissed about them. Now i WILL admit that it pisses me off when people say that, and when I explain to them it's more hard work than anything else, and then they start insisting that it's not and that I was born with the ability to draw. When they start arguing back, THEN i get a little annoyed. But good lord people relax, have a beer or something.

I totally understand your sentiments towards that girl though, and THAT shit pisses me off. She got the whole "genie in the magic lamp" wish and just completely blew it.

[NoSeRider]

I would kill to be Hugh Hefner....even if he is a an old guy.

You should probably stop hiring people based on Bachelors Degree and hire based on ability.

I have teachers wondering why I'm not in the business right now.....arrogance or honesty? I can only go by what people tell me.

I'm taking a Bridgeman Art Anatomy class, and I've already taken 2 semesters of Human Anatomy in Biology.

[BlackGuy]

he didn't hire her, she was already there.

[Poohgee]

Cant be bothereed to read ur post .. but ur propably right :)

[figure2]

Magic Man,

Your rant reminded me of a guy I knew back in middle school through high school. He was just about the opposite of the girl you had to fire. This guy back in 7th grade was already an accomplished artist. He created beautiful drawings for his friends in bands when they needed posters & announcements. I was also reminded of this guy when I saw the movie "Crumb." Like Robert Crumb, this guy came from a family of artists where it almost seemed like a genetic trait.

As good as this guy was, he couldn't care less about his ability and after high school, while his friends & classmates went off to college, he went to work for a bike shop as a bike mechanic and never aspired to anything more. I have often felt that because his ability came to him so easily he put no value in it and lost interest. So if someone could indeed take a little "red pill" to give them all the ability they wanted, it would probably have the same effect.

[NoSeRider]

I'm just antagonizing him. It's funny.

[twitch]

MAGICMAN,

Honestly I was a little turned off by your rant; then I went and took a look at your sketchbook to see if you were entitled to speak from a position of authority.

Suffice it to say, your work speaks much more highly of you than your rant :)

I'm sorry you had to go through all that emotional turmoil with this misplaced soul. Their kind make their appearance everywhere, not just in the world of art.

Quit kicking yourself about her though (or even her about herself). She isn't worth the trouble, at least not the way she is now. Hell, maybe in a few years your paths will cross again, and she'll be a better person or perhaps a better artist as a result of the business experience you were compelled to render unto her.

If not, forget her. Spare her neither sweat nor adrenaline.

And keep up the excellent work.

[Magic Man]

You should probably stop hiring people based on Bachelors Degree and hire based on ability.

I have teachers wondering why I'm not in the business right now.....arrogance or honesty? I can only go by what people tell me.

Firstly, you should learn how to read - she was there before me.

Secondly, I've seen your work...if your teachers are wondering why you aren't hired as an artist, they shouldn't be teachers in the first place, its pretty obvious...

[Magic Man]

Magic Man,

Your rant reminded me of a guy I knew back in middle school through high school. He was just about the opposite of the girl you had to fire. This guy back in 7th grade was already an accomplished artist. He created beautiful drawings for his friends in bands when they needed posters & announcements. I was also reminded of this guy when I saw the movie "Crumb." Like Robert Crumb, this guy came from a family of artists where it almost seemed like a genetic trait.

As good as this guy was, he couldn't care less about his ability and after high school, while his friends & classmates went off to college, he went to work for a bike shop as a bike mechanic and never aspired to anything more. I have often felt that because his ability came to him so easily he put no value in it and lost interest. So if someone could indeed take a little "red pill" to give them all the ability they wanted, it would probably have the same effect.

Sadly, there's no course on ambition.

[Magic Man]

MAGICMAN,

Honestly I was a little turned off by your rant; then I went and took a look at your sketchbook to see if you were entitled to speak from a position of authority.

Suffice it to say, your work speaks much more highly of you than your rant :)

I'm sorry you had to go through all that emotional turmoil with this misplaced soul. Their kind make their appearance everywhere, not just in the world of art.

Quit kicking yourself about her though (or even her about herself). She isn't worth the trouble, at least not the way she is now. Hell, maybe in a few years your paths will cross again, and she'll be a better person or perhaps a better artist as a result of the business experience you were compelled to render unto her.

If not, forget her. Spare her neither sweat nor adrenaline.

And keep up the excellent work.

I'm done thinking about her, just thought it would make a nice rant story. In all honesty, I am a pretty chilled out person in real life, I just hate seeing squandered opportunity since I am someone who always treats every opportunity with the utmost attention and care.

Thanks for the kind words too, its a shame I can't post my real work, my sketchbook is just full of sketches...confidentiality agreements are like itches that you can't scratch.

[NoSeRider]

I know you guys wanna see more rendering from me....I'm doing that.

Obvious, nope. Get a lot of conflicting messages what is art.

[Shamagim]

Noserider, please dont misundestand Magicman, the first point is because i probably spended a lot of his time in writing his post, and you should read it carefully so you can honor the point of this thread..

the second point is because teaches shoudnt tell you that you are good enought, they should encorage you to keet getting better, telling you that you already should have a job is telling you that you shoudnt have to learn anything else anymore, thats far from the function they serve.......

[Magic Man]

I know you guys wanna see more rendering from me....I'm doing that.

Obvious, nope. Get a lot of conflicting messages what is art.

You need to quit asking people what the fuck art is and start finding out for yourself.

[Shamagim]

common guys, keep it healthy :(

[Gloominati]

aaahh, shit man, I know what you're talking about.
the fucking worst thing is that all these "I would Kill if I could be that good"-people,are people who honestly seem to think all the guys who kick damn ass with their artwork took that "red Pill", maybe they even think that talent is the major factor that makes your art great.
Well I know that I am not good,since I am quite new too this whole drawing thing but nevertheless all those guys in my class ask me after each drawing lesson : " woah shit man, how do you do this. Why are you that good???" They ask this without even thinking for a fucking seccond that I am working hard,staying up till late at night and getting only 4hours of sleep each and every night.
I have a friend who started to play the guitar for about 2 months now, and as I stood next to him and his "teacher", listening to a conversation they had, I wanted to shoot myself as that teacher said to him that he has to pratice for about 15 minutes a day to become good, AS HARD AS IT SEEMS TO BE. The best thing, however, was that this friend of mine was seriously disappointed about the fact that he has to find this fucking 15 minutes of time each day. Half an hour later he started to bitch around that he doesnt improve. I simply couldn't believe it.
And I? I am sitting each fucking day till late at night at my drawing desk, practicing and learning. I am not complaining, dude, I love what I do, that's WHY I do it. I love it and I don't need anything more but drawing and painting. It's the learning, the concentration, learning to be able to create wonderfu stuff, and I want to get better and better, yeah maybe it sonds stupid but I wanna make my dreams come true.
I always console myself with saying to myself that these people wont ever know what dreams are and they won't know what making dreams come true with damn hard work is either
honestly,I know what you feel

[L. Scott Knight]

Magic Man: "I would kill to be an artist"

You know there is such great irony in that statement and it is so increadibly telling of a deep dissatisfaction in the speakers heart I think you might find more sympathy.

What you say IS true but that doesn't touch the depth of the statement.

A person that observe you doing what you do is not just seeing some lucky schmo born with a great life if they have any mind at all but they see someone who has the character and strength of will, the passion and desire to be where you are at. In this way it is a complement.

Because

What they are really saying

is

"I would kill to be a better person".

And there in lies the irony. So many people have been trained to not follow their passions, to not express themselves and by the time they are all grown up if they did it would open up the flood gates and sweep them away straight to the looney bin.

Most artists do love themselves better than many. Even if they hate themselves they at least love themselves enough to admit it. Which is better than most. And so you are envied.

[Magic Man]

Magic Man: "I would kill to be an artist"

You know there is such great irony in that statement and it is so increadibly telling of a deep dissatisfaction in the speakers heart I think you might find more sympathy.

What you say IS true but that doesn't touch the depth of the statement.

A person that observe you doing what you do is not just seeing some lucky schmo born with a great life if they have any mind at all but they see someone who has the character and strength of will, the passion and desire to be where you are at. In this way it is a complement.

Because

What they are really saying

is

"I would kill to be a better person".

And there in lies the irony. So many people have been trained to not follow their passions, to not express themselves and by the time they are all grown up if they did it would open up the flood gates and sweep them away straight to the looney bin.

Most artists do love themselves better than many. Even if they hate themselves they at least love themselves enough to admit it. Which is better than most. And so you are envied.

To be honest, I totally agree with you, and I think I loath this sentiment and lack of action on their part because it reminds me of where I was not so long ago.

Culture places more emphasis and importance on certain things than others, and even with our open minded society today, these antiquated beliefs and values persist.

Since I woke up and saw the world for what it is, I've found my sympathy for those who are able to change their situation but do nothing has waned and in its place replaced by disgust at inaction.

Maybe its a misplaced disgust at the reflection of myself at a younger time in them, a time when i felt so out of control of my own life that taking it seemed like a real posibility...but when it came down to it, following my own path was just like a mist, seemingly imprenatratable, but when you get up and walk into it, you just come out the otherside like it was nothing.

I'm just happy I did it while I was still relatively young.

[Magic Man]

aaahh, shit man, I know what you're talking about.
the fucking worst thing is that all these "I would Kill if I could be that good"-people,are people who honestly seem to think all the guys who kick damn ass with their artwork took that "red Pill", maybe they even think that talent is the major factor that makes your art great.
Well I know that I am not good,since I am quite new too this whole drawing thing but nevertheless all those guys in my class ask me after each drawing lesson : " woah shit man, how do you do this. Why are you that good???" They ask this without even thinking for a fucking seccond that I am working hard,staying up till late at night and getting only 4hours of sleep each and every night.
I have a friend who started to play the guitar for about 2 months now, and as I stood next to him and his "teacher", listening to a conversation they had, I wanted to shoot myself as that teacher said to him that he has to pratice for about 15 minutes a day to become good, AS HARD AS IT SEEMS TO BE. The best thing, however, was that this friend of mine was seriously disappointed about the fact that he has to find this fucking 15 minutes of time each day. Half an hour later he started to bitch around that he doesnt improve. I simply couldn't believe it.
And I? I am sitting each fucking day till late at night at my drawing desk, practicing and learning. I am not complaining, dude, I love what I do, that's WHY I do it. I love it and I don't need anything more but drawing and painting. It's the learning, the concentration, learning to be able to create wonderfu stuff, and I want to get better and better, yeah maybe it sonds stupid but I wanna make my dreams come true.
I always console myself with saying to myself that these people wont ever know what dreams are and they won't know what making dreams come true with damn hard work is either
honestly,I know what you feel

amen...the girl we fired was just like your friend "Darren, its annoying how good you are" "well, I spend a minimum of 4 hours a night after work drawing..." "oh...well then I won't compete with you."

Seriously...there's a massive difference between saying you want to be good at something and actually working to be good.

The more I learn, the more I realise how little I know. Its the people who have no knowledge who don't understand the complexity of something.

[Interceptor]

Great rant! This also reminds be of the manga fanartist who says they're going pro.

[broken lizard]

good rant, no matter how many typos or swearwords. i agree that there are too many overconfident manga artists with no skill who aren't willing to sacrifice that little extra time a day to improve, yet go around lazing about not thinking how good they have it. (i have no gripes with manga artists who sacrifice as much time as they can too improve. that goes for all kinds of artists, actually.)

although i do agree with L.scott Knight's point.

[DavePalumbo]

regarding that guitar bit mentioned a few posts up,

I've been "playing" guitar for about 7 year, meaning I learned how to strum the thing 7 years ago. I took some lessons and never really practiced. I learned power chords, major and minor chords, basically rythm guitar. In other words, I never took it seriously. I vaguely know a scale or two.

my brother, on the other hand, started just over two years ago. It took him about 3 months to catch up with me, and lately he's been learning jazz fingering, Django Reinhardt type stuff. I hear him practicing it up in his apartment at all times of day and night. When we watch tv together he's practicing. He seriously puts in hours a day on a hobby between his painting.

It just wasn't in me. I thought it was fun to a point, but too much work to go past that. I did eventually give drums a try and found it much more to my taste, and I think I've gone further faster just because it feels right to me. It's what I mesh with. No difference with people who give up when they can't get their proportions right, it was fun to a point but it just isn't lighting them up anymore. Just find what does.

[Blue]

we occupy a higher ground and plane of awareness that I feel many other people are not forced to develop.

I had this conversation with one of my roommates the other day

"Dude, you really should try acid" he said
"I'd rather not man." I replied
"Seriously man, you look at things like the simplest leaf and you see things you never notice. You realise how complex and and perfect it is and you understand it on a higher level." He said
I sat silent for a moment
"You would have such an insane trip" he said
"Dude i'm an artist. I look at everything like that already." I replied.

[darth massacre]

Magicman, I believe your rant came from utter mismanagement of manpower more than the fact that she was a terrible artist yet was able to remain in employment for far longer than her natural life cycle as an artist.

I've seen the same cases at work and in school too. How some classmates, who really haven't made improvements in work ethic, attitude and skills remain in school (with average grades) and how some of the assholes where I formerly work remain employed in the capacity of an artist remains a myth and mystery to me. But one thing that is not a mystery.....is that we'll see a lot more of these people around. There are people who feel they deserve a pay job or the industry pay scale just because they have a college education. So I wouldn't ask you to relax or calm down....just accept it as part of the inconveniences we have to put up with in life.

There's compassion....then there's blind compassion....



Edit: Blue...that's high on life for ya! My philosophy prof once told me this.....when you're looking at things on all aspects intuitively, would you need perception altering substances to see more? Its part of the reason why this job gets better and better even though it probably isn't gonna pay that well for most people except the most talented and committed.

[Ilaekae]

'Blue, after that last post, I have absolutely nothing to say that would add anything to this thread. The world can't see through our "eyes" and to be honest, I don't think it could tolerate what it saw if it could...

[look]

"I would kill to be an artist" doesn't tick me off, like others mentioned, I would think of it as compliment. But "I wish I'm as talented as you" really pisses me off. That sounds more like the ability to draw better is a gift from unknown power, rather than practice and studying.

As for that girl you mentioned, I've seen a few like that, or worse. They just take things for granted because they get things their way too easily. Hope that girl learned some lesson by getting fired.

[Craig D]

Blue
That was awesome.

[acuna_read]

Magic Man,

Your rant reminded me of a guy I knew back in middle school through high school. He was just about the opposite of the girl you had to fire. This guy back in 7th grade was already an accomplished artist. He created beautiful drawings for his friends in bands when they needed posters & announcements. I was also reminded of this guy when I saw the movie "Crumb." Like Robert Crumb, this guy came from a family of artists where it almost seemed like a genetic trait.

As good as this guy was, he couldn't care less about his ability and after high school, while his friends & classmates went off to college, he went to work for a bike shop as a bike mechanic and never aspired to anything more. I have often felt that because his ability came to him so easily he put no value in it and lost interest. So if someone could indeed take a little "red pill" to give them all the ability they wanted, it would probably have the same effect.


Perhaps he enjoyed mechanics more than he enjoyed his art?

[BlackGuy]

wow way to fit that " artists are pretentious" stereotype fellas.
Who the hell are any of you to say that we as artists are any more enlightened than the rest of the world? We see and understand things DIFFERENTLY, but not in some way that makes us enlightened. God if there's anything I hate it's people believing they're better than anyone else, and that's seriously the vibe I'm getting here. Don't get me wrong, there are definitely times in the world when people are better at other people at one particular thing. I admire and respect all of your works, but I don't look at non-artists and judge them as somehow below me in terms of comprehension and understanding. Maybe in terms of ART, but that's only because they invested their time into something else. I don't mean any disrespect towards any of you, but the impression I'm getting here is definitely bothering me.

Mike's post is more what I agree with, and is not an example of what I'm talking about.

And about perception altering substances? They're used for fun, although I have met artists in the past who rely on them for their creativity, which is probably not the best way to go. it works kinda like steroids. Where you'll get this massive boost in creative strength, but you're destroying yourself at the same time. Although I think that in this case it means that the ideas were already there, you just need to unlock the barriers of your mind to access them.

[BlueMech]

I would rather kill someone to magically gain the skills I would need to be be an artist for a living than work hard for it. But it would depnd on the person and how I'd have to do it. But I'm not really going to go out and do it so instead I'll put the work in like everyone else has to.

I don't have a problem with an expression but I do have a problem with people thiking all art skill in some bloodline limit or something. I'm not even that good yet but when kids ask me where I learned to draw I can tell they just want to hear me say: "I was born with it." THat does piss me off.

[0kelvin]

Come on guys, we're not that special.



0kelvin

[MoP]

I would kill to be an assassin! :ninja++:

[Blahm]

well, since there is aperently a job opening in austrailia. I am available.

[scumgrinder]

i am currently devoting myself to improve my illustration skills. I am a graphic designer focused on web designand i ran into similar situations in that field. The last company i worked for was full of people who knew nothing about websites or graphic design yet they were still there working from 9 to 7, taking two hours of lunchbreak and getting paid while the final product was really medicore. Even my chief designer was full of shitty ideas and no skill. I ended up quitting after a year.

The reason why i post here is because i get criticism i don't get anywhere else. it's so easy to stop improving when you get the YOU THE MAN, MAN, because as humans we have a tendency to be self indulgent. But i want to learn. I don't want to learn slowly. I want to learn exponentially and i need to fail several times to do it. i need to be second in what i do to want that spot above me. And while i do that i will try to spill what i know to help others even if i feel like i'm not yet ready to help them properly.

It annoys me when i post in other forums that have nothing to do with illustration and someone post s a doodle and they call it "my art" "my piece" "my work". I call my shit shit or stuff or a necessary euphemism until the day comes when i can call it art without feeling like a pompous bastard. I will call my finished stuff "sketches" until i can call it finished compared to the standards set by others i admire.

[S.C. Watson]

I had this conversation with one of my roommates the other day

"Dude, you really should try acid" he said
"I'd rather not man." I replied
"Seriously man, you look at things like the simplest leaf and you see things you never notice. You realise how complex and and perfect it is and you understand it on a higher level." He said
I sat silent for a moment
"You would have such an insane trip" he said
"Dude i'm an artist. I look at everything like that already." I replied.
I broke up with a girlfriend once long ago after almost exactly the same conversation over the very same reason.

~Oreg.

[Shamagim]

The point got lost in misundestandings.......this was never about how good artist have it, or how enlighted we are, this was about taking effort beyond words, and this applys to any job in any place.

Artist have a role in this world, we can think less of the rest of the world that we observe, nbut we cant denie that most of it is rotten, and ourselves are not the exception, there are good artist, average artist and fan artist that never took the leap and have no actuall talent or will to take effort to improbe / same, there are good executives, average office man, and mail room scum.

The actuall point is "people", and how the wish for everything and do nothing to get it....thats a real social problem that appears in any function and job, and is mostly becuase people like to do nothing, and make excuses to not do this things.

Personally i do feel superior to some people around my social circle, but not becuase im an artist, is because im made a choice, and im sticking to it, and i know i wont have everything in life and despite that, im really really happy. Then i see them, never making the choice they really want and making decitions because of peer presure....They will regret not making the decitions they wanted ( whatever this might be) for the rest of their life, and that IS sad.

There are people that are "better" than others, becuase they have their own mind, because they are selfaware, because they are not afraid.....now i could address Gauge about the "feeling superior" point i just mentioned in the last parraf, but to tell you the truth, you are one of the better people for actually saying that artist are actiong like enlighted beings and say that the idea is as ridiculous as saying that artist are lazy hippys, and waht maeks him one of the better people is that he actually said that in an artist forum, becuase he wasnt afraid of getting burned because expressing his opinion.

We are humans, we can delude ourself that in one point of our society we will not have people that feel inferior or superior, becuase our entire society is based in that conception.


Well thats it for today, im off to work some more :), take care everyone and look deeper in waht you think is truth.....after you are done, do the same over and over again, cause there isnt an ultimate truth in the end, but we can try to get close to it.:)

[Magic Man]

well, since there is aperently a job opening in austrailia. I am available.

I'll be posting 3 job descriptions in the employment section shortly...be on the lookout.


I thought the whole point was pointing out that we aren't special. That we work hard for our skills..and that were not born with them.

Some people people have a problem with reading past the first sentance.

Mike is completely on the ball.

Just so its completely clear, natural talent makes up about 5% of a good artist, the other 95% is pure hard work and dedication.

I'm not here to be mister popular, I'm giving an insider's view of someone who does this for a living and loves his profession, I'm not here to give some sugar coated politically correct view of things, so rants like these generally polarise the population.

Thats fine with me.

One of the major things I love about this place is the open-ness and relatively laid back rant-friendly environment with regards to concept art.

We're all human beings and its natural to feel passion towards certain subjects, if you can't muster such passion being an artist is difficult, since art is but a physical presentation of passion and emotion.

[Magic Man]

i am currently devoting myself to improve my illustration skills. I am a graphic designer focused on web designand i ran into similar situations in that field. The last company i worked for was full of people who knew nothing about websites or graphic design yet they were still there working from 9 to 7, taking two hours of lunchbreak and getting paid while the final product was really medicore. Even my chief designer was full of shitty ideas and no skill. I ended up quitting after a year.

The reason why i post here is because i get criticism i don't get anywhere else. it's so easy to stop improving when you get the YOU THE MAN, MAN, because as humans we have a tendency to be self indulgent. But i want to learn. I don't want to learn slowly. I want to learn exponentially and i need to fail several times to do it. i need to be second in what i do to want that spot above me. And while i do that i will try to spill what i know to help others even if i feel like i'm not yet ready to help them properly.

It annoys me when i post in other forums that have nothing to do with illustration and someone post s a doodle and they call it "my art" "my piece" "my work". I call my shit shit or stuff or a necessary euphemism until the day comes when i can call it art without feeling like a pompous bastard. I will call my finished stuff "sketches" until i can call it finished compared to the standards set by others i admire.

great post, totally agreed.


it's so easy to stop improving when you get the YOU THE MAN, MAN, because as humans we have a tendency to be self indulgent.

This line is so true, I think as partly a way of dealing with it, I reject all forms of praise, i think it works to my benefit. Self indulgence destroys your learning, 100% agreed.

[Magic Man]

The point got lost in misundestandings.......this was never about how good artist have it, or how enlighted we are, this was about taking effort beyond words, and this applys to any job in any place.

Artist have a role in this world, we can think less of the rest of the world that we observe, nbut we cant denie that most of it is rotten, and ourselves are not the exception, there are good artist, average artist and fan artist that never took the leap and have no actuall talent or will to take effort to improbe / same, there are good executives, average office man, and mail room scum.

The actuall point is "people", and how the wish for everything and do nothing to get it....thats a real social problem that appears in any function and job, and is mostly becuase people like to do nothing, and make excuses to not do this things.

Personally i do feel superior to some people around my social circle, but not becuase im an artist, is because im made a choice, and im sticking to it, and i know i wont have everything in life and despite that, im really really happy. Then i see them, never making the choice they really want and making decitions because of peer presure....They will regret not making the decitions they wanted ( whatever this might be) for the rest of their life, and that IS sad.

There are people that are "better" than others, becuase they have their own mind, because they are selfaware, because they are not afraid.....now i could address Gauge about the "feeling superior" point i just mentioned in the last parraf, but to tell you the truth, you are one of the better people for actually saying that artist are actiong like enlighted beings and say that the idea is as ridiculous as saying that artist are lazy hippys, and waht maeks him one of the better people is that he actually said that in an artist forum, becuase he wasnt afraid of getting burned because expressing his opinion.

We are humans, we can delude ourself that in one point of our society we will not have people that feel inferior or superior, becuase our entire society is based in that conception.


Well thats it for today, im off to work some more :), take care everyone and look deeper in waht you think is truth.....after you are done, do the same over and over again, cause there isnt an ultimate truth in the end, but we can try to get close to it.:)

another great post shamagim


The actuall point is "people", and how the wish for everything and do nothing to get it....thats a real social problem that appears in any function and job, and is mostly becuase people like to do nothing, and make excuses to not do this things.

Apathy is a bitch of a cancer in society, I believe it afflicts 9 in 10 people, this is the whole underlying point of this thread, some people just misunderstand things when the word "fuck" and its variants are used.

[L. Scott Knight]

Artists, good to great artists ARE special. Not gods gift to a undeserving world or anything like that but there is a unique tallent they have inside at birth. More people have it that realize it but there are those who don't have IT and no amount of hard work and study will ever make them great. It's just not in them.

Those who have it, and know it and work to bring it out are lucky because it's a wonderful thing.

[PaulGanguly]

I don't know about anyone else, but I very often struggled with complacency and a sense of entitlement, especially when I was in high school. In part because I was something of a big fish in a little pond. I spent more time drawing than absolutely enything else, including any schoolwork that wasn't art. Then, in about 12th grade, I kind of hit the wall. I stopped giving a rats-ass about anything. My mediocre grades got even worse. Sure, there were various issues that I could blame, and did at the time, but those notwithstanding, my biggest regret to date is not stepping up my game and getting into a school, not just for the degree, but to be among a large concentration of individuals who wanted to make it as bad as I do. Knowing that, I thought, would drive me to work harder.

Seeing as how I am not in school right now, I have to muster up that discipline on my own. It's hard, but I am genuinely realizing that it's worth it. Whenever I'm feeling lazy, instead of feeling sorry for myself that a level of skill like some people's here is unattainable, I instead apply myself that much more.

The zen secret to good art is that there are in fact rules to it. You learn the rules, then you practice the implementation of those rules. No one gets anywhere standing and gawking, and handing out asspats.

On another note, the more I read Mike Corriero's posts, the more I like that guy.

[Blahm]

fuck art, who do i have to kill to get laid around here.

[scumgrinder]

yourself.

see what i did there?

[waronmars]

I hate when anime artists say they wish thay could draw like you...I don't MAKE you draw shitty anime, douchebag.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/jminis72/demotivators_1862_17596708.jpg

[Shamagim]

I hate when anime artists say they wish thay could draw like you...I don't MAKE you draw shitty anime, douchebag.


Wo woo, carefull with your words, this isnt about anime, and it shoudn´t be, there are anime artists and amateur " i draw what´s on tv" artists, dont generalize and turn opinion into prejudice.........REAL anime artist have to study the same things occidental artist do, people actually think that in oriental schools you are taought to draw in that anime style and thats pure ignorance and a convenient isolation from a problem occidentals are having with their amateurs.

So please people, think twise about making a statement, and figure out just how subjective it is, and what kind of person are you turning to.

Do anime oriental REAL artist feel the same prejudice againts occidental style......unfortunatelly ...yes, though the best manga and anime artists state to their own students that that prejucide is just plain dumb and it wont help them grow as artists.

So what is the real problem here, and i want to leave it as clear as possible, cause if there is something that ticks me off of unjustifyed prejudice and point on witches, Americal/europen companys are making shitty copys in oriental style to "just sell", and occidental youth is impressionable by today´s favorite and just draw it up dreaming to some day become a manga artist in their own country....would this be any different if the favorite was another style? NO, these are impressionable and not to bright kids that just keep thinking they are the shit and they can learn anything by themselves, they learn to hate other "styles" and ignore any kind of teaching.

Anime artist in the oriental side go to class, practice life drawing, anatomy, and everything else occidentals have in their study plan, that is a fact, and their stylizations are product of hard work and a lot of practice.

But why are some many prodcuts that look alike in there, are all the artist in there blind ad like to draw in that style anyways?.....Another liquid assumtion, may i remind you that any work anywere is not financed and publised by artists, companys releasing products will like to make things in the "most sellable way possible", thats a fact around the world, but same as here, there are good artist and bad artists, the good ones KNOW the anatomy and every rule in the book, and they have lots of products unknown to the occidental side that proves more than enought that they know the same thing every artist knows, and they have a lot of great illusatrators, and we have seen them around the finished seccion ( people like Opang).

So please, for the ones that are reading this, tell it like it is " impressionable and inmature kids that want everything the easy way", no like"shitty anime"......

This is globalization time, and i think history as tould us in many ways that prejudice is just unproductive and harmfull.

Sorry for going so mcuh off tipoc here, but i just wanted to clear that up for the 5th time :)

[draw]

All this seems to me to beg one question:

Concept artist or Concept illustrator?

MagicMan reams not reels

[Magic Man]

Whenever I'm feeling lazy, instead of feeling sorry for myself that a level of skill like some people's here is unattainable, I instead apply myself that much more.

I think that this is the beginning of when you truly start on the path of becoming a good artist, getting past the "out of my depth" feel and start getting on with the job to start learning to swim instead of slinking away, I know it was for me.

I think getting past this barrier is the gate keeper that differentiates the true artists from the wannabes.

Btw, a lot of people talk about an elitist feel in a lot of artist - I don't know about you guys, but I thrive on pushing myself to the point where I almost become maniacal and intimidating in my drive to become better at something.

I personally think that believing in yourself to the point of near arrogance is sometimes required to ascend to another level - perhaps if not externally then internally. If I believe I can best Michaelangelo in the future, then I will get a lot further in my push to become the best damned artist I can be rather than shying away and calling it egotistical.

In your quest to attain the best fucking level you can get, your goals should NEVER be modest or else you will never stand out.

[Magic Man]

Concept artist or Concept illustrator?

Do you really think that question needs to be answered?

I'm not one to get hung on terminology like that, it detracts from the act of actually improving your art by taking away time from the act itself.

[figure2]

I personally think that believing in yourself to the point of near arrogance is sometimes required to ascend to another level - perhaps if not externally then internally. If I believe I can best Michaelangelo in the future, then I will get a lot further in my push to become the best damned artist I can be rather than shying away and calling it egotistical.Not easy considering many artists struggle with self-confidence issues. Sometimes an artist's lack of faith in their own skill & abilities can push them harder.

[Magic Man]

Not easy considering many artists struggle with self-confidence issues.

I've always wondered why that is.

[staylor]

wow way to fit that " artists are pretentious" stereotype fellas.
Who the hell are any of you to say that we as artists are any more enlightened than the rest of the world? We see and understand things DIFFERENTLY, but not in some way that makes us enlightened. God if there's anything I hate it's people believing they're better than anyone else, and that's seriously the vibe I'm getting here. Don't get me wrong, there are definitely times in the world when people are better at other people at one particular thing. I admire and respect all of your works, but I don't look at non-artists and judge them as somehow below me in terms of comprehension and understanding. Maybe in terms of ART, but that's only because they invested their time into something else. I don't mean any disrespect towards any of you, but the impression I'm getting here is definitely bothering me.

Mike's post is more what I agree with, and is not an example of what I'm talking about.

And about perception altering substances? They're used for fun, although I have met artists in the past who rely on them for their creativity, which is probably not the best way to go. it works kinda like steroids. Where you'll get this massive boost in creative strength, but you're destroying yourself at the same time. Although I think that in this case it means that the ideas were already there, you just need to unlock the barriers of your mind to access them.

I'm kinda getting this vibe too, though I don't think it's intentional. I've always loved art. I practice hard and I've come a long ways. But I want to be an engineer. I just do, that's what I want to be.

But don't say that only artists "see" more than other skilled professionals. Engineers "see" the stress patterns in wood, they "see" the airflow around leaves. They don't see more or less, they see differently. I suspect every profession is like this, where those that work their hardest see more than the average person.

I suppose that the problem Magic Man was talking about comes from people thinking that artists are somehow different that other careers. Nobody expects electrical engineering to come naturally, but somehow they think art will. A hard working artist trying to figure out the muscles of the forearm late at night is in no way superior or inferior to an aerospace engineer fiddling with a model in a wind tunnel on a weekend desperately trying to find the source of vibrations in a wing. And I'd bet that both people are greeted with the quote "wow, I'd kill for your smarts/talent!"

Just my two cents.

[Magic Man]

I suppose that the problem Magic Man was talking about comes from people thinking that artists are somehow different that other careers. Nobody expects electrical engineering to come naturally, but somehow they think art will. A hard working artist trying to figure out the muscles of the forearm late at night is in no way superior or inferior to an aerospace engineer fiddling with a model in a wind tunnel on a weekend desperately trying to find the source of vibrations in a wing. And I'd bet that both people are greeted with the quote "wow, I'd kill for your smarts/talent!"

Just my two cents.

Exactly.

[Sunny]

I read your post then realized there was reply after reply about people arguing with you and against you.

I personally think your rant is extremely justified. It sux to have to put up with a person who complains and isnt willing to do the same amount of work that you are. I think you did the right thing when convincing your work to get rid of the slob. You have paid your dues and she has not learned that you must do this in order to really get somewhere. ( i love the gorge kastanza reference lol you discribed her so well).

You are right about artists being on a higher plain than the rest of civilization. Artists used to be a rare bread but we have grown into an army of logical creative imaginations. We understand physics, how light bounces, we try our hardest to understand the fundamentals of what happens in reality.

But being this logical and analytical really shows who is just pretending to be an artist and who has serious intentions of becoming the best that they can be.

From what I can tell most people wish they had the ability to draw or paint well. They would sit and work on something but would only do so if they has this great ability without the years of practice. I come from a family of artists and have progressed much faster than my parents and grandparents simply because I have been brought up around it.

I argue with people that anyone could do what I do, ANYONE. It might be discouraging that I have 20 years of practice developing the hand eye coordination and imagination capabilities but in the end if anyone had the experiences i did they would be the same artist. This leads me to beleive that being an artist is based 100% on interest. Most people dont care enough to draw enough to consider it practice. Artists draw and draw and naturally start to get better, their interest gets much better and keep it up. Then one day you realize how good you could get with the right amount of effort.

im sure ive missed my thought and this has probly turned into an incoherint thought but i will leave saying this: skills in art are not given, they are earned, through practice and proficiency.

[Gloominati]

I've always wondered why that is.

Yeah me too. I know that if I work my ass off I will become a asskicking artist. I know that I will and ONLY if I work day and night every fucking day, and I can't reach this aim in any other way!! I know that I will become a great artist one day, and I know that I will be invited to be an instructor at huge workshops and that all those kids will look forward to be taught by me and see my art.
Well are this damn huge words? YEAH!
Am I arrogant because I say this? FUCK, NO I am NOT! because I am living to reach this aim, and I am working so fucking hard to reach that aim.
And exactly that's why I can't stand people saying that they reallyreally wanna do something and saying in the next moment : ' OOOHHH no I am too lazy right now, I will do that tomorrow!' and after that they are complaining about the fact that they cannot even draw a cube. WAAH, it just makes me sick!!!

[Professor Az]

MM - I completely understand - having to almost beg to have someone fired is tough. The fact that management failed to listen to you, the senior member, means that they failed both you and this waste of company funds. I have little or no respect for bosses that do that sort of thing. Glad to hear that it all worked out for the best.

Now if only I could get our management to listen to ME about one of our losers, life would be good. :confident

[egerie]

Your rant reminds me of her male counterpart. But the guy had an ego the size of the moon. At least reguarding his art... I used to work with the manipulative son of a bitch but decided to leave. A short while ago I've been approached by something interesting but backpedalled out of it since I heard he was *just* hired there. If they can't figure out this candy-ass cheating anime out of a real artist, then I refuse having to supervise him. Last time was enough. (Turning Sambre into manga... AAAAAAAAAAAUGH !)

[BlackGuy]

good lord I think everyone including myself over-analyzed this. It's just some people who aren't artists saying they admire your shit. They're just phrasing it in a different way.

And on another note, confidence is believing in your own ability to do things well("well" being a subjective word I know, but I think we can all be a little down to earth here and assume we all know what "well" is). Ego is believing in your ability to do things better than everyone else and thinking yourself better for it. That's the difference in my eyes. Confidence will ALWAYS get you far, no matter what you're talking about. romance, art, driving, job aquirement, whatever. Ego will do the exact opposite. I think we should figure out which one we're striving for here.

[Shamagim]

Sorry to disagree, you are generalizing to just a small percent of that reality, and im not sure you are getting the problem, the problems is about people not willing to make anything to change their situation, and nothing is ever as generalized as you just put it, and nobody feels the same about anything, there are different realitys to the subject, where people either repeat the same problem, or take it in a compleatly different way.....it cant be in anyway as general as you are putting it, and think about that affter dismising anyone´s opinions, becuase you are preaching against that.

Another thing, to generalize is to do the same thing that actually cause the problem we are are adressing: to ignore all posibilitys, points of view and complexity of a problem just for comodity.........tell you one thing,please dont ever think that you are overcheaching anything anymore, even minor problems are incredible long chains of reactions that people ignore, and " as an artist is also your/our job to over-analyze things"

though you are right about your second point, the dinamic about confidence and ego, haves even more ramifications than you think ( is never good point/bad point)

[LaPalida]

Wow! My work rocks! I love my bosses and we never have assholes, like you guys have, over at where I work. I can't believe some of the shit you people have to put up with. Ugh ... am scared to change jobs now but I gotta.

Edited the sentence structure for better clarification :)

[sour]

somehow, at first glance, your sentence structure made me think you meant something different then what you really meant.
i couldn't tell if you were being insulting or not.

[LaPalida]

Insulting not was I being.

[sour]

i gather.

[BlackGuy]

oh god, its not your job over psycho-analyze things.

Although I will admit that you're right, I was generalizing a small percentage and like I said earlier, it does irritate me when AFTER I answer that with "you can, it just takes hard work" people reply "no man, it's something you're born with." I guess I'm contradicting myself a bit but it's hard for me to explain in black and white terms how I feel about this whole matter.

And maybe you and I just differ here, but I just don't believe in being preoccupied about or looking into things people say when they don't need to be looked into. Anyone who doesn't want to work to further their art skills has basically decided not to be an artist. Any person who truly wants to do art will put forth the effort to improve. So long as that remains constant, I don't see why we should even care if people make that assumption. Once I've told people that it takes hard work to aquire ANY skill, and they STILL believe it's some magical talent, then it's no longer my problem. So yes, as artists and as people, we should analyze things. But my definition of over analyzing is analyzing in excess, beyond a point where it needs to be studied. Worrying and stressing about minor socialogical problems and misconceptions is really not how an artist should be spending his/her time. Part of life is knowing when to chillax.

*EDIT* I think this is a great debate and topic discussion by the way. props for it.

[figure2]

I've always wondered why that is.Not that hard to figure out. Artists are constantly looking at the work of other artists, comparing ourselves to those much better, faster than ourselves who can make it look effortless. That comparison can make us magnify every flaw and mistake we perceive in our own work. If you bring those issues into a job interview, the self confidence can take an even further beating if the potential client tears down our work. It took me a long time to realize that this was nothing more than a negotiation tactic. If a client can make an artist doubt the value of their own work they can get the work done for a lot cheaper. Lessons learned.

[strych9ine]

i am currently devoting myself to improve my illustration skills. I am a graphic designer focused on web designand i ran into similar situations in that field. The last company i worked for was full of people who knew nothing about websites or graphic design yet they were still there working from 9 to 7, taking two hours of lunchbreak and getting paid while the final product was really medicore. Even my chief designer was full of shitty ideas and no skill. I ended up quitting after a year.

The reason why i post here is because i get criticism i don't get anywhere else. it's so easy to stop improving when you get the YOU THE MAN, MAN, because as humans we have a tendency to be self indulgent. But i want to learn. I don't want to learn slowly. I want to learn exponentially and i need to fail several times to do it. i need to be second in what i do to want that spot above me. And while i do that i will try to spill what i know to help others even if i feel like i'm not yet ready to help them properly.

It annoys me when i post in other forums that have nothing to do with illustration and someone post s a doodle and they call it "my art" "my piece" "my work". I call my shit shit or stuff or a necessary euphemism until the day comes when i can call it art without feeling like a pompous bastard. I will call my finished stuff "sketches" until i can call it finished compared to the standards set by others i admire.

Amen brotha, I am in the same situation. I have my sights set on an illustration career, but in order to get a stable financial foothold I need to work the web and graphic design day job. Once I'm home at 7pm, I work until I sleep (hopefully) improving my skills in art while juggling freelance designs jobs as well. It's all how bad you want something for yourself and what in your life are you willing to sacrifice to get it.

[Niggle]

I find the whole thing very interesting. From what I gather as I read most of the posts, we value time and work put into studying and learning often boasting of the sacrifices of giving up all other things to improve on our art. I do admire that dedication and self-control but is it truly practical as an artist to cut ourselves off from the world to indulge in our skills?

The only reason I bring this up is that I have understood that the difference of a well rendered drawing and a piece of art is that the art speaks truth about the vary world that some of us are cutting ourselves off from. Myth is a beautiful mirror that we as artists reflect how things really are, for as artists we know that things are not as they seem. For this reason artist are valuable to the rest of society. I believe that if it is just dedication and skills we have then it is more like masturbation than expression/communication...

Skills and dedication are a necessity absolutely! Coming form one who has not had training and the lack of skill/practice (and work that reflects my lack) I understand the importance of diligence most of you are talking about - but at the risk of losing our experience of the world it is not worth the price for we will lose art and only have perfect drawings. I believe it is a fine line to balance along and would like to hear the thoughts and opinions of those artists that have gained the skills and are still improving but also are engaged with the world. Those that first come to mind is those artists that are spouses/parents. What are your thoughts?

[rasdasa]

I personally enjoyed that rant, that cunt probably crys all the time though, so don't be surprised when you next meet her taking your order in McDonals. Just make sure not to eat the food if she comes out of the back and hands it to you.

Don't get me wrong folks, I am empathetic, just not towards parasites who have no appreciation for the life they have and the liberty to pursue almost any dream they want. I also DEsPISE when people tell me "Oh my gosh you're so lucky... you're so talanted" yeah... that's right, I popped out of the womb and before the umbilical cord was even sliced I was sketching in 3pt on the doctors bald head. If I was talanted, IF so MANY of us were so talanted WE wouldn't be sacrificing so much of our time milking that "talent." Massive Blacks crew wouldn't need to bring master painters/artists into their studio to push their art forward, instead they'ed be basking in conceptual orgasms. But instead we all, ALL, need to push ourselves to grow, period.
Doesn;t matter at what stage of your life you are, or how succesfull you think you are, if you allow yourself to stagnate then you will most likely loose a very intimate part of yourself. You won't be sure that you're missing anything, but it won't stop you from trying to drown away in mindless pratle (TV, drinking, puffing, bimbos etc...)

Anyhow, your rant was very caustic and honest, thank you, I love that shit.
Funny thing is, your boss, the moralist, is doing her more harm by allowing her to be like that and get away with it, then if he was to be upfront with her and direct, despite the obvious heartache(boo hoo hoo) that would cause her.

ras

[BlackGuy]

wow. so much talk about reflection, art, expression (and when one is worthy enough to call one's work "art" or whatever the fuck). What happened to just wanting to draw cool shit?

I just want to keep the lighthearted fun stuff that I wanted to draw when I was younger, and combine it with a mature understanding of realism (form, value, anatomy, perspective, etc.) I'm just sticking to the goals I had when I was a kid. FUN! As I said before, I think everyone needs to stop being so grave about all this.

[rasdasa]

Gauge]wow. so much talk about reflection, art, expression (and when one is worthy enough to call one's work "art" or whatever the fuck). What happened to just wanting to draw cool shit?

I just want to keep the lighthearted fun stuff that I wanted to draw when I was younger, and combine it with a mature understanding of realism (form, value, anatomy, perspective, etc.) I'm just sticking to the goals I had when I was a kid. FUN! As I said before, I think everyone needs to stop being so grave about all this.[/QUOTE]

Why else do you think we're doing this? Of course because it's fun, but not necessarily fun as in hahah, instead a more deeper sense of satisfaction. There is a difference between mindless fun, like certain gaming and the enjoyment you derive from conceptualizing.
I personally am sick of people thinking it's easy to do art simply because its "fun". Now if you've decided to make your life into a pursuit of art it will start to become a more evident weight upon you, your opinions and retrospecs will become more passionate towards it, that's reality and human nature.

We link ourselves with that which we devote our time to, usually if someone disrespects it, even if they have a valid point, we feel threatened and retaliate.

His rant was more a motivational speech than anything, it just needed to be seen in "positive" context ;P

Now, for a much needed:
phhhheace \w/
ras

[Magic Man]

wow. so much talk about reflection, art, expression (and when one is worthy enough to call one's work "art" or whatever the fuck). What happened to just wanting to draw cool shit?

I just want to keep the lighthearted fun stuff that I wanted to draw when I was younger, and combine it with a mature understanding of realism (form, value, anatomy, perspective, etc.) I'm just sticking to the goals I had when I was a kid. FUN! As I said before, I think everyone needs to stop being so grave about all this.

When you work in the corporate field, you don't only have to think about "having fun", you have to think about deadlines, you have to think about workflow, you have to think about work load - when someone is "fuckin' with yo shit" as in not pulling their own weight, I'd like to see how much fun you have as well as still being expected to pull creativity out of your ass 24/7 - which is difficult enough without all these other problem associated with the business world.

Let me just put it this way, when you're in the field, you'll lose the naive rose tinted glasses pretty quick, and if you don't you probably wouldn't survive, its just like in any highly competitive field, you gotta be good at your work, and you also have to be smart with your cards if you're going to go anywhere.

I for one am not afraid to let people know about the realities of working in this sort of industry, and as you can tell, there are plenty of people in the industry who think the same thing, its generally those who are on the outside looking in that think the whole thing is one big charlie and the chocolate factory complete with oompa loompas.

Its not.

Its still imo the best job in the world for me, but don't let that affect your judgement, everything has its sticking points.

[Magic Man]

Anyhow, your rant was very caustic and honest, thank you, I love that shit.

Funny thing is, your boss, the moralist, is doing her more harm by allowing her to be like that and get away with it, then if he was to be upfront with her and direct, despite the obvious heartache(boo hoo hoo) that would cause her.

ras

Just saying it like it is bro, no more no less, I'm not politicaly correct and speak my mind most of the time, divides people left and right, I got no problem with it. I speak my mind, then I'm done, I don't need to hold shit in because its already out, I think society is so fucking rediculously censored these days its rediculous, imo one of the best things about CA, the honesty.

Best thing to come out of this is that we're now doing things 100% the right way, people like her make me wonder if all the extra hours I put in are worth it, you want to be surrounded by people who are just as willing to put in the extra time and effort that you are, when that happens you and your team can go anywhere, when people aren't pulling their weight it affects you negatively too because you start counting the hours too since the workload is already unfair.

When they're gone, its just a sigh of relief and work becomes like play again.

[Magic Man]

I find the whole thing very interesting. From what I gather as I read most of the posts, we value time and work put into studying and learning often boasting of the sacrifices of giving up all other things to improve on our art. I do admire that dedication and self-control but is it truly practical as an artist to cut ourselves off from the world to indulge in our skills?

The only reason I bring this up is that I have understood that the difference of a well rendered drawing and a piece of art is that the art speaks truth about the vary world that some of us are cutting ourselves off from. Myth is a beautiful mirror that we as artists reflect how things really are, for as artists we know that things are not as they seem. For this reason artist are valuable to the rest of society. I believe that if it is just dedication and skills we have then it is more like masturbation than expression/communication...

Skills and dedication are a necessity absolutely! Coming form one who has not had training and the lack of skill/practice (and work that reflects my lack) I understand the importance of diligence most of you are talking about - but at the risk of losing our experience of the world it is not worth the price for we will lose art and only have perfect drawings. I believe it is a fine line to balance along and would like to hear the thoughts and opinions of those artists that have gained the skills and are still improving but also are engaged with the world. Those that first come to mind is those artists that are spouses/parents. What are your thoughts?

A very valid point, personally I'm around people al day, I make friends at the drop of a hat and I am literally surrounded by friends all day whom I have good relationships with. I do occassionally go out with them and party, but when it comes to it, because I am around people so often, I really REALLY value my peace and quiet which is why I love working till the early hours of the morning when the sound factor is totally zero.

But I totally agree that in order to ascend to greater heights, great art cannot be created out of vacuum, it needs to be a visual meandering and conglomeration and regurgitation and personalisation of what is going on around us in order to sustain a relevance that will go much further than intrigue.

If you let the lessons of learning anatomy and learning structure and everything else sink to the very depth of your soul, I feel that artists are on a very great footing to understand much more than the average person, not only because we find inspiration from everything around us, but also because what happens around us affects the tone and stance of our own art whether consciously or subliminally.

[P.Timm]

This is a really incredible thread. Very inspiring as well! I can deffinitely say that I've been down and out, and on the verge of throwing in the towel when it came to art just cuz my stuff doesnt compare to most art out there. A buddy of mine told me that persistence and hard work wins over talent and all that other natural born stuff. I only wish I would have heard this stuff when I was 13 so I would've known that it was hard work not just talent that got a lot of the pros where they are.

[Crane]

We're 100% talented at being untalented but 100% skilled at being gifted.



This thread is more inspiring than looking at art! :D

[centripetal]

Wasup Magic man, I havent read the whole thread, Only your first post. I want to be very honest here, When i started reading i was think"damn this guy has some anger issues," But after i read a bit more and checked out your art i realized just how fucking smart you are. Its amazing how much knowledge can be conveyed when you are honest about your thoughts, and simply speaak your mind. I geuss im just posting to say thank you because your RAnt really informed and encouraged me to keep working hard.
Sorry i want to write more but im already late....

Peace
-Vince

-Sick fucking avatar btw, mm.

[rasdasa]

This is a really incredible thread. Very inspiring as well! I can deffinitely say that I've been down and out, and on the verge of throwing in the towel when it came to art just cuz my stuff doesnt compare to most art out there. A buddy of mine told me that persistence and hard work wins over talent and all that other natural born stuff. I only wish I would have heard this stuff when I was 13 so I would've known that it was hard work not just talent that got a lot of the pros where they are.

Talent is overrated. Those things in life that one really values are the same things they've trully earned. Talent strips away much of the journy in self development, and in doing so, it also takes away much of the self discovery.

It's one of the ultimate lessons to continue to fail time and time again only to persist and grow.
Almost any aspired artist understands this, as dose any individual with lives for a passion.

ras

[brokk]

Great thread! I was reading and nodding silently to a lot of things being said.

Since the talent thing has been brought up, I wanted to raise an issue that could be analogous to that in some extent, that of "special tools".

For example, several years back when I hadn't started to study painting yet, I would draw something and leave a lot of things unifinished. I said to myself "yeah, I'm gonna fix this when I paint it someday".
Then I started studying painting and I realize that adding the paint didn't somehow magically "solve" the drawing for me. It was the same crappy drawing with some colors thrown on it!
So I thought, "yeah, I'm gonna finish this when I scan it and use photoshop someday". Alright, some time passed, I got photoshop and started to try and paint with that, with a mouse. Still crappy drawings with some paint on them, and now some photoshop colors on them. But nothing magically fixed. Shocking!
So then I started to realize, its not in the materials, its not in the tools... you need to study, and practice, and THINK every once in a while. Paints aren't going to give you instant magical anatomy knowledge, you need to study some anatomy for that. Adding some colors isn't going to solve the compositional problems in the drawing, study composition and re-work it.
So slowly these things started to sink in... and I realized, just how much time I could be using for study, practice, production, experiment and examination, and all over again, instead of doing nothing.
Recently I got a tablet. I have to admit, even though I am starting to realize that its not the tools or medium that will do "the work" for you, I still had some sort of irrational faith placed upon it. I have been messing around with it for a few days now and getting used to it. Of course it has its advantages, its faster than a mouse, and less obnoxious, BUT, it does not do your studying for you. Call me an idiot but its basically a mouse with pressure sensitivity and a different way of holding it. Its not giving me magical insight on composition or anatomy or perspective, and its not spawning wonderful paintings before my eyes. You use it for things, It doesn't "do" things or solve problems for you, like composition, lighting, design, anatomy or perspective.
If anything, getting a tablet and fiddeling around with it made me realize just how much I should be studying the basic things and practicing a lot more life studying and traditional media. Basically, I'm starting to see that I could be slacking much, much less than I already am, and putting more work hours instead.
And you know... even though its frustrating at a lot of times, and thats a whole issue in and of itself, I'm kinda glad that it is.
It's fun, and I love doing it.
I wouldn't trade it for the world : )

I couldn't let this slip by:

I'm not special, no one is special

Of course we are, we are all special (everyone). It sounds really corny, but you know its true :)

[Form]

yo magicman if that bitches position aint filled yet, im only a few hundred dollars away by air!! HOLLER BACK IF YA HEARIN' ME! Im as dedicated as a kings cross hooker mate!

[rasdasa]

BrokenS, well put, and I know exactly what you mean. Procrastination of that sorts still happens to me, but then I kick myself in the nads and bite into it instead. I'll never learn otherwise.

ras

[CaptainInsano]

don't be surprised when you next meet her taking your order in McDonals. Just make sure not to eat the food if she comes out of the back and hands it to you.



mmmmmm *smacks lips*... McDonalds..... I want some fuckin french frys now.

[Form]

I got about 80% through this thread, and i really cant read any more in one sitting - but i did have a couple things to say before i leave for the day. im sorry if i have repeated a point unnecessarily.

1. A few people countered the point that we, as artists, are unique individuals. It is my firm opinion that we are... not because of a birthright or blessing, but because we have made ourselves that way. I for one know that I was raised in a household that encouraged expansive thinking - encouraged a questioning of the world. I think as an artist who keeps a sketchbook of ideas and questions about the world.. i know that i think very deeply about pretty much everything. i think i DO think about the world on a deeper level than other people around me, and that really isnt a statement stemming from arrogance or self-fulfillment. Because i really wish i COULD open some peoples eyes to the lives they lead - like my own dad who lives in a realm of material gain, who spends all his money on restaurants, cars, clothes, cigars, and yet comes home at night bitter, resentful, overweight, on edge, and empty, watching cop dramas until two in the morning, being 50 something, divorced, and unable to hold a relationship. I wish i could sit and talk with him about things.. open his eyes to the life he has created for himself, but his walls are too tall, his life is all he has left, he believes it is too late to change, and whats more he is afraid to admit any of that to himself.

Ive had girlfriend after girlfriend, friend after friend, who just cruises through life and the rat race, with no intention of actually 'thinking' unless they have to. And i tend to try to open up after a while... try to have discussions about this kind of stuff with them... but they just freak out. They dont like to be forced into looking at the world for what it is... Only a handful of fellow artists have i ever really been able to talk about anything in this way with... which is hard at times.

Which brings me to point #2.

This is something i have struggled with all year... and its finding that social balance... i have been on several short holidays to see mates in different parts of australia, pretty much with the purpose of partying. There is a part of me that told me DONT DO IT! because i knew that for that one week or so i wouldnt be making art... but i think that if you are dedicated to your art you reach a point where art becomes more than the time you sit down and call 'art time'. I think you reach a point where every part of the day becomes art time.

During these trips, i remained very conscious of what was around me. Even when out partying, or at the beach or whatever, everything came to me artistically, and very naturally. When i got back from the trips i used a lot of my experiences as inspirations for my work - - which is my point i think :D

what im trying to say is that you should not have to cut yourself off from your own social life. What IS a problem is when you go on a holiday or go out partying or whatever, as a way to ESCAPE from having to do your 'art chores'. If you approach all aspects of your life as the artist you are, then every moment is an opportunity to learn more about your world. Be it in the shower, having a beer, driving, surfing, whatever, there is always inspiration and observation to be drawn from your experiences.

This is what i feel, and i hope for my own sake that im right, i hope that i can still enjoy the experience of being around friends, meeting people and so on.. i just dont see the health in locking yourself away from the world to become a better artist. If you dont engage and challenge your world, then your art would surely suffer?

i hope i made a sliver of sense.

[BlackGuy]

When you work in the corporate field, you don't only have to think about "having fun", you have to think about deadlines, you have to think about workflow, you have to think about work load - when someone is "fuckin' with yo shit" as in not pulling their own weight, I'd like to see how much fun you have as well as still being expected to pull creativity out of your ass 24/7 - which is difficult enough without all these other problem associated with the business world.

Let me just put it this way, when you're in the field, you'll lose the naive rose tinted glasses pretty quick, and if you don't you probably wouldn't survive, its just like in any highly competitive field, you gotta be good at your work, and you also have to be smart with your cards if you're going to go anywhere.

I for one am not afraid to let people know about the realities of working in this sort of industry, and as you can tell, there are plenty of people in the industry who think the same thing, its generally those who are on the outside looking in that think the whole thing is one big charlie and the chocolate factory complete with oompa loompas.

Its not.

Its still imo the best job in the world for me, but don't let that affect your judgement, everything has its sticking points.

Nothing about what I said was meant to contradict any of your points about the reality of the industry and the reality of working in the field. You've been making a lot of assumptions about how naive I am and how I'm not mentally advanced regarding art, and it APPEARS to be based on the fact that
A) I don't view myself or any other artist as any more enlightened than someone in any other profession, and
B) Because I have a more "have fun" light hearted attitude towards what I want to do with art.
I understand the seriousness of making money and surviving in a business. In fact I wasn't talking about that aspect of art at all, but I'm going to stop discussing my feelings on this because it's clearly displaying signs of artistic immaturity or something.

[P.Timm]

Form, what you said makes total sense. I whole heartedly agree with that!!! Finding a balance with a "social life" and art is one damn hard thing to do. A lot of times when friends call you to party you have to kind of think about it for a second. Especially when you're in the midst of a ton of different projects. But having no social atmoshpere to become better can take its toll on your persona as well, maybe how you interact with others in public too. Anyways you said it best!

[Form]

I always do. Im an artist, so im pretty enlightened. Bow down before me please.

[IILooney]

What a waist of time. You guys are making too big of a deal out of a :

[/end pointless heated rant]
get back to work!

[Dougbot]

Magic Man, you have to be careful. There are people out there who become art directors or get lead positions before they are truly ready. They tend to attack their artist rather than try and help them, just as you have done to this girl. So what if she draws crappy anime, it’s what excites her. Just like for you, drawing from Da Vinci’s Anatomy of Man excites you. Take what she enjoys and help her grow within those limits. As an art director it is your job to make her better at her job.

Most my art directors are friends and I’m constantly learning from them. They say things like, “This is very cool, but try pushing this shape...” or “I like this, but something is funky with this leg, grab Bridgeman and let’s figure out what’s wrong...” This kind of dialogue not only make the artist feel better, but can help push them in the right direction without feeling like they’re being attacked.

The hardest part about reading your rant was you constant attacking of this poor girl. You should never feel like laughing when you have to fire someone, because really it is a failure on your part. You could have found what she was good at and place her in that position. Drawing backpacks for the modelers, or weapons, hats, whatever. If she still doesn’t work hard, or get better and you do have to fire her, you should never be glad or happy about it. At the very least it’s very unprofessional as an art director to post that story on a site that has thousands of viewers. On a human level, you should never want to laugh at someone else’s pain and misery despite their personality and short comings.

You don’t want to get a rep as being a jerk of an art director, that will stay with you and you’ll lose jobs. Having worked 8 years as a concept artis in games, I can say it's a small industry and your rep follows you. This isn’t meant to be a personal attack on you, just some advice. Like uncle Ben said,” with great power, comes great responsibility.” ;)

[brokk]

Dougbot, thats beautiful.
Just wanted to say that, even though its not adding anything to the discussion (EDIT: I mean this comment, not yours!)

[James Kei]

Great post Dougbot.

[Slash]

I would kill to be able to lie on the couch and watch TV all day long, and maybe draw some anime every other day when i feel like it.

But my demons wont let me. :(

[K-17]

I often think i'm not cut out to be pursuing this business. I managed to clear all my classes last year, and i'll probably manage to keep doing that, but i'm just barely hanging on here. I'm the type of guy that stays up late, knowing i'll just curse myself for that in the morning, when i have to get up at 6:30.

Also, about having talent, i'll agree it's not the decisive factor, but it exists. And some people have a lot of it. I know i have a little - and i have to be objective about this, 'cause i know i'd never have been able to make it this far without ever having taken an art class.
But no way that's enough. Not in my case, at least. I know still need a lot of work to get anywhere near close to where i want to be. Still, if someone comes by that can just do it out of thin air, i'll accept it. Even if inside i'm thinking "bastard, making all my work seem meaningless", i can't just pretend i never saw that.

About Manga or Anime, i gotta say i kinda hate the fact that it's so popular these days. Just like with any kind of style, there's good and bad in it; but if you happen to like the good in it, you immediately get lumped together with this bunch of sailormoon and pokemon crazed fanboys. And that, i truly despize. Most people who go stereotyping anime used to watch Heidi, probably never knowing it was done by Hayao Miyazaki in the first place (sorry for the rant). Personally i don't see the difference. I don't go badmouthing Degas or Cezanne or whomever, so i don't see why them scholars have to come badmouthing what i like (or rather, i do, but i seems petty).

About work, is it really a bad thing that you almost have to beg to get someone fired? I'll agree that there are times it's justified, but if i was on some of my co-workers' shit-list, i wouldn't like it very much if firing someone was an easy process.

[Magic Man]

Magic Man, you have to be careful. There are people out there who become art directors or get lead positions before they are truly ready. They tend to attack their artist rather than try and help them, just as you have done to this girl. So what if she draws crappy anime, it’s what excites her. Just like for you, drawing from Da Vinci’s Anatomy of Man excites you. Take what she enjoys and help her grow within those limits. As an art director it is your job to make her better at her job.

Most my art directors are friends and I’m constantly learning from them. They say things like, “This is very cool, but try pushing this shape...” or “I like this, but something is funky with this leg, grab Bridgeman and let’s figure out what’s wrong...” This kind of dialogue not only make the artist feel better, but can help push them in the right direction without feeling like they’re being attacked.

The hardest part about reading your rant was you constant attacking of this poor girl. You should never feel like laughing when you have to fire someone, because really it is a failure on your part. You could have found what she was good at and place her in that position. Drawing backpacks for the modelers, or weapons, hats, whatever. If she still doesn’t work hard, or get better and you do have to fire her, you should never be glad or happy about it. At the very least it’s very unprofessional as an art director to post that story on a site that has thousands of viewers. On a human level, you should never want to laugh at someone else’s pain and misery despite their personality and short comings.

You don’t want to get a rep as being a jerk of an art director, that will stay with you and you’ll lose jobs. Having worked 8 years as a concept artis in games, I can say it's a small industry and your rep follows you. This isn’t meant to be a personal attack on you, just some advice. Like uncle Ben said,” with great power, comes great responsibility.” ;)

Thanks for the heads up Dougbot - without context, perhaps its a cunt thing to do, but I didn't mention the prior 6 months to my total distaste of this girl so here it is.

I am honestly, one of the most giving people you would ever meet, I am not egotistical and my posts are simply me speaking without due concern for social construct and straight from the mind. I would bend backwards to help people out, if there's a drunk hobo choking on his own vomit, I am the first to turn his head to one side to stop him from suffocating on his own puke and to help lug him to the closest hospital to get him checked out. Yes, I've actually done this.

For 6 months, I left this girl to try and develop her own style to the best of her ability, I gave her as much time as she needed and gave her advice whenever I felt she was stuck and also gave her tips on how to work faster, work better, and more professionally. I lent her a large portion of my own personal library, which I NEVER do to help inspire her, I taught her proper workflow and I even helped console her and helped her with personal problems when SHE asked for help in my OWN time.

This is how she thanked me:

1) Getting my books dirtied and pages wrinkled - I would literally like to tear people's faces of for doing this. If there's one thing I hate, its disrespect of other people's property.

2) Cut me off prematurely in the middle of important advice with the words "I know!" ...no, you don't fucking know, because you're fucking up. I'm telling you for a fucking reason.

3) Continued to dope up at night with cough medicine, so that she barey slept and came to office drowsey and moody and snapped at people because she didn't have the minerals to deal with her goddamned problems like a normal person.

4) Slept under the fucking desk due to lack of sleep - I had to literally leave the room and calm myself down outside when I saw this. What kind of person does this?

5) Did not improve one bit and thus forced me to cover her ass with regards to work load.

I could go on all day, but I'm just glad we got rid of her. When her work doesn't improve, and it starts to not only look bad on her, but on me as well because of her inability to get better in any clear discernable way, yes, it starts to annoy.

I can get along with almost anyone, talk to anyone in my office and you'd get the same thing. I've talked and joked with people like Nelly and Snoop as easily as I've done with Ronnie Coleman as I've done with CEOs of large companies as I've done with bar owners and janitors, I love to talk with people, if I wasn't in the field of art, I would be in customer service or PR work.

I treat people fairly and I give anyone the time of day, I offered the same level of commitment to one of our newest employees, a 3d modeller, and he has been nothing but an exemplary employee who has become a good friend of mine, we are often the two who stay latest in the office till sometimes 9pm at night then go out after to grab some susi, and its nothing but a pleasure to work with him and he continues to improve in leaps and bounds. Its an honour working with someone like that.

But,even charity and amiability has its limits and I'd bow to anyone who could have been more charitable, patient and giving to someone as undeserving as that talentless no hope.

I come from a family of managing directors and high achievers, I studied management, human relations and operations management at university and I've been employed in various managerial roles over the years - I'm relatively young but I take pride in my managerial work and growth as much as my art work. Aside from art, I study management just as hard, I've attended managerial and leadership courses since I was 14, I've read The Art of War, and Go Rin No Sho by Miyamoto Musashi, I've read all manner of managerial books as well as studied psychology as an extra part of my degree to help me in managing others. I'm not boasting or bragging or defending myself, I'm just putting forth that I'm not a total hack at what I do.

Its easy to point at the head of the whole affair and say "Magic Man is an egotistical sadistic fuck" without knowing the lead up events, so here it is all laid out, you make your own judgements, but I make no appologies.

And I didn't disrespect her in front of thousands if not millions, because I haven't revealed her name, nor which company I work for.

I leave you to your own opinions, I'm not here to force mine on anyone.

m

[Form]

you 'chatted' with nelly and snoop?

not only are you art-fu, your now gangsta.

i love you man.

[Magic Man]

you 'chatted' with nelly and snoop?

not only are you art-fu, your now gangsta.

i love you man.

Yeah, we actually do work for them so I had the opportunity to meet them. We also do work for Eminem - the amount of dope they smoke is rediculous.

Although I'd much prefer to meet Arnold Schwarzenegger, been a massice fan of his since I saw Pumpin' Iron all those years ago.

Btw, why are you still up? Burning teh midnight oil eh?

[rasdasa]

you 'chatted' with nelly and snoop?

not only are you art-fu, your now gangsta.

i love you man.

Well, obviously not a real gangster, otherwise he would have organized a hit on his jovial little antagonist and we wouldn't be having this conversation now.

Damn shame really.

[Magic Man]

Oh yeah, here's my bud and Ronnie with me behind the cam when we met him last weekend, pretty inspirational guy. We chatted for a bit about photography, cool cat.

http://users.on.net/~bobbyeow/Photos/IMG_0570_Sepia.jpg

[rasdasa]

That white guy is huuuge!!

....
....
yes, that was on purpose.

ras

[GriNGo]

My social life is 80% composed of taking care of my cat, i dont have time for people and i my idea of friend is someone that draws besides me, helps me and alows me to help him, thing that i dont have and im not especting to have. . by shamagim

Now I just want to say this. He has problems.

[Form]

i think if i worked at your studio you would throw me around like a tennis ball. Yall could pick me up with a pinkie!

And yeh, i was painting at 3am. Just the way you like it :P

[Blue]

Of course we are, we are all special (everyone). It sounds really corny, but you know its true :)
Nope. If everyone is unique, then no one is. If everyone is the same but one , then only he is unique.

We all all different. That i can agree with...but not much more. :P

[Form]

join the club and be an individual. Everyones doing it.

[scumgrinder]

*joins*

[Vague]

Yeah this whole rant sort of reminded me of what people say to me when i tell them about going to europe for 2 months after graduating from highschool.

They say things like "oh your soooo lucky that you got to go! I wish I could go to Europe."

and my response is "Luck my ass! I fucking worked hard for 2 years to get there, and you could go there too if u wanted."

There was no luck involved just hard work and planning. It didnt just happen to me. I made it happen.

[aesir]

I like being thought of as naturally talented. I like to make it all seem easy. I don't want anyone to see all the hard work I had to go through to get where I am today.

[Odds]

Agreed.

[Dpendleton]

Magic Man, you have to be careful. There are people out there who become art directors or get lead positions before they are truly ready. They tend to attack their artist rather than try and help them, just as you have done to this girl. So what if she draws crappy anime, it’s what excites her. Just like for you, drawing from Da Vinci’s Anatomy of Man excites you. Take what she enjoys and help her grow within those limits. As an art director it is your job to make her better at her job.

Most my art directors are friends and I’m constantly learning from them. They say things like, “This is very cool, but try pushing this shape...” or “I like this, but something is funky with this leg, grab Bridgeman and let’s figure out what’s wrong...” This kind of dialogue not only make the artist feel better, but can help push them in the right direction without feeling like they’re being attacked.

The hardest part about reading your rant was you constant attacking of this poor girl. You should never feel like laughing when you have to fire someone, because really it is a failure on your part. You could have found what she was good at and place her in that position. Drawing backpacks for the modelers, or weapons, hats, whatever. If she still doesn’t work hard, or get better and you do have to fire her, you should never be glad or happy about it. At the very least it’s very unprofessional as an art director to post that story on a site that has thousands of viewers. On a human level, you should never want to laugh at someone else’s pain and misery despite their personality and short comings.

You don’t want to get a rep as being a jerk of an art director, that will stay with you and you’ll lose jobs. Having worked 8 years as a concept artis in games, I can say it's a small industry and your rep follows you. This isn’t meant to be a personal attack on you, just some advice. Like uncle Ben said,” with great power, comes great responsibility.” ;)

Good post man.

[SexualSideFX]

I had this conversation with one of my roommates the other day

"Dude, you really should try acid" he said
"I'd rather not man." I replied
"Seriously man, you look at things like the simplest leaf and you see things you never notice. You realise how complex and and perfect it is and you understand it on a higher level." He said
I sat silent for a moment
"You would have such an insane trip" he said
"Dude i'm an artist. I look at everything like that already." I replied.


That's retarded.

[scumgrinder]

but it sounds epic