View Full Version : Dont crit unless you can offer a solution...
March 16th, 2003, 12:36 PM
Dude, I know Im a total and green NOOB! when it comes to 3d,so please give me sme feeed back so I can get better, but Please Constructive crit means provide a solution to what can be changed, I want to be as hard core as some of the talent I see on this forum. I know Ive got a long way to go, But gotta start somewhere Right?
Here's the concept for this Boss character for a game
and here's the low poly model Skinned...
O.K. I know it dont look just like the sketch, But artistic License right? plus i dont know how to animate a tunic properly so I just gave him pants.
here's another issue my mapping technique how can I get it not to stretch? this is what i do:
i make another edit mesh modifier on top of the already finished model mesh modifier then go and unwrap and make it flat and go back and forth to photshop then once i have every thing lookin the way i want it I delete that one edit mesh modifier and every thing snaps back to the way it was before the whole unwrap process but the skin is on the mesh the only thing is it stretches on the sides and looks goofy, please help me find a way to overcome this. here are more images to hopefully illustrate what i mean
any feedback would be immensly appriciated, and if some one could show me a way to overcome this issue with my mapping it would be a major milestone in my progression as a budding 3d artist.
March 16th, 2003, 04:44 PM
Hey, Joshua. Looking pretty good so far, especially for a "total noob". :)
What 3d software are you using? There are lots of tools available to help you with UVW mapping, but they vary a LOT with the software.
If you're in Max 5, you may want to skim over this tutorial I wrote. It may help. (And if it doesn't, then you can ask more specific questions.)
If you're not in max 5, the first two pages might be helpful anyway, since they deal with the general concept of what UVW mapping is.
Also... Are you looking for comments on the mesh and texture map? Or just UVW mapping? There are a few things I could say that might be useful, but if this is just a rough texture, they don't really apply.
March 17th, 2003, 03:25 AM
In Max 5, there also is a tutorial in the program for UVW unwrap. It's with a very simple angular little spaceship but also very helpful!
Not as good as the tutorial above though ;)
You can find it under the help option at the top of the screen, then open 'tutorials'.
March 17th, 2003, 01:18 PM
Im sorry I should have said what version of 3ds max i was using, I have version 4 or 4.3 (if that really makes a difference) will these tutorials still be applicable? or are they pretty specific to 3ds max 5?:confused:
March 17th, 2003, 01:25 PM
I think the unwrap UVW is new to max 5... Before that version it was all handiwork i think. Maybe use texporter, if you google on that or on 'texporter download' you should find some stuff. I've never used it myself though but it gets a lot of enthousiastic followers. It seems that it links in with photoshop well. Another trick may be Deeppaint (same google trick) made by RightHemisphere. I use that with Maya and it rocks.
Maybe somebody else can give a more specific download location, sorry to be of so little help...
BTW. post a wire of your model, i like your head and would like to see whats texture and what's mesh.
March 17th, 2003, 01:43 PM
Well, Max 4.x had an unwrap uvw tool as well, it was just really limited. You might still want to read the first couple pages of my tutorial, it'll still help.
Texporter is a useful tool, but it doesn't help you set up the UVW mapping coordinates, all it does is render them out to a texture map, which you can bring into photoshop and draw on. You can get it here:
March 17th, 2003, 03:32 PM
this is the map...
ill post the wire frames in sec..
oh yeah one more thing, couldent i get the same results with textporter as i would with just manually unwrapin the model redering it as a wire frame saving the render as a jpeg then just painting it in photo shop and using the uvmapping plane to strech and size it?
cause thats what i do the oly problem is when i delete the edit mesh modifier (the one on top of the old one ,before the unwrap process) it snaps back to the original model shape and from the front it looks fine but on the sides it stretches and looks muddled
March 18th, 2003, 05:10 AM
I have the impression that you use a planar mapping. You might use the unwrap or shrink-wrap (? dows this work) technique to get a map that is less deformed. If you use a planar map the sides are not mapped correctly because the map is projected onto a plane. As is better explained in the excellent tutorial by Waylon. I'm not sure how to do it in max without UVW Unwrap modifier though...
Also, remembering max, if you start deleting stuff from the modifier stack that defines UVW coordinates (such as edit mesh) then these coordinates are forgotten and the system snaps back to the default planar mapping...
Hope its of some use....
March 18th, 2003, 07:02 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JoShuA
[B]Dude, I know Im a total and green NOOB! when it comes to 3d,so please give me sme feeed back so I can get better, but Please Constructive crit means provide a solution to what can be changed, I want to be as hard core as some of the talent I see on this forum. I know Ive got a long way to go, But gotta start somewhere Right?
Well, Joshua, welcome to 3D...hehe..
Ok to give you some pointers, Never, ever, use textures from an already existing program like max. People who are 3D users van easily see that. I am talking about the texture that looks like a wire hanging out of his back. That redish, rusty texture. Other than that, i like your low poly and it starts to look great. The textures are not bad. Personally i dont like his legs because you cant really see it. It looks more like a tube thats just there..May be because its a low poly version. You should post one that is low poly and the other high because that way we can see better your model. Anyways good luck on this model...
March 18th, 2003, 02:13 PM
yes I guess that could be the solution to my Stretching dillema. The whole planar mapping thing. (sigh) hmmm. the real thing about the whole uv mapping thing is that after I ve put all this love into a model.. and turned edges and looked at it a million time from every angle, I have to take the damn thing apart flatten it paint it AND THEN.... unflatten it and make it look the way it was. and this last part is the part Im having trouble with, I've heard of people using morph targets to have the mesh morph back to it original shape after mapping, and the method I use by placing an additonal edit mesh modifier on the stack and then just deleting it, but it seems Im obviously missing a step....hmmm:hmm:
Oh and those are some great tutorials by the way.:cool::nod:
March 18th, 2003, 02:29 PM
Try to follow a tutorial stepby step and you'll probably find out. I know, it hurts, trying yourself without any tutorials is much better ;-) eventually though i got my head round tutorials and they actually help you work better. There are probably tons of texturing tuts on the web just dealing with the same problem you have. So do not despair, chances are somebody has already figured it out for you.
Meanwhile, try mapping something simple to see what happens. Like a cube or a stretched sphere or something (the stretching is important since you will be able to see what happens to your texture) and then try a checkerboard texture on it. Then experiment with the different UVW mapping systems in max (try the UVW modifier for starters) to see what these UVW stuff actually does. You can (i seem to remember) change coordinates for a face or group of faces, and probably use different modifiers for the different parts of the model. Just see what happens to this stretchy stuff.
And why delete the modifier you have set up?
Bottom line: texturing and UVW mapping is hard work especially if you do it manually. But hey, someone's got to do it ;-)
March 18th, 2003, 04:12 PM
yeah I know, (sigh) well I guess I can always fork out $1000 for deep paint...
thanks for your advice. Ill for sure keep posting on my progress.
you guys rock:rock:
March 18th, 2003, 04:31 PM
yeah i know ... $$$ ...
almost makes you think about doing something illegal :-(
March 18th, 2003, 05:12 PM
Deep Paint has a free trial period.
But really, it's not a mandatory tool. Thousands of artists have gotten along without it just fine for years. (And still do!) Just read a little bit, find out exactly what UVW mapping coordinates are and how they work, and I think you'll be able to figure out how to solve this problem pretty easily.
March 18th, 2003, 07:09 PM
yeah, I totally agree. it's just the whole "putting the mesh back together" part that messes me up I decided.
I think that's the part where I get stumped, and Ive heard of all types of methods. morph targets, the whole adding another modifer gig. I just need to experiment and keep on practicing. I liked the advice to start on simpler objects but i dont know about spheres and cubes, It just seems like if you go that simple the computer could do all the work, maybe Ill try to apply materials and a skin to a human head... yeah.
oh and just one more question, on the forums I keep hearing ablut this company called eatpoo? huh yeah well from what ive heard theyre damn good art outfit. does anyone know their url? I hate to type in eatpoo.com and wind up on some schizer web site!!:barf: haha.
March 18th, 2003, 07:21 PM
You know, Joshua... There are a couple different methods for UVW mapping. Breaking apart the mesh is one of them, but it's never been that popular, and it's being used less and less as technology progresses. You're probably better off if you avoid doing that.
The basic outline of what you need to do is this:
- Add an Edit Mesh modifier
- Select all the polygons you want to work on (say, the arm.)
- Add a UVW Map modifier, and set up the mapping coordinates how you like them
- Add another Edit Mesh modifier, select some different polygons (a leg?)
- UVW map that part
- Repeat until the whole object is mapped
- Add an Unwrap UVW modifier, and arrange all the mapping coordinates so that they fit nicely in the texture space. You can also get rid of some stretching at this point, but that requires a good working knowledge of how UVW mapping actually works.
I'd go into more detail, but there are plenty of tutorials out there that'll fill you in.
Oh, and eatpoo is another art forum, much like this one. A lot of the same people post there.
March 19th, 2003, 10:22 AM
You will also definitely want to add some bump maps. You don't have to go crazy with it, keep it subtle, but it will help a lot. Try taking your finished map converting it to grayscale, save it, and put it into the bump slot in the material editor, and turn it up slightly to get a sublte bump.
March 19th, 2003, 12:18 PM
THAT'S WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT!!!
Waylon you kick azz. Man, that's what i needed a new method. I hate taking apart my mesh. Those steps you told me are like the missing peice of the puzzle after work that's the first thing im gonna do when I get home.
huh It's so simple, just select the faces I want to work on and "untangle" them in the uv unwrap screen.and put an dedit mesh down before I move on to another part of the mesh.
and digitaltoon, bumpmapping was something else i had o0n my mind thanks for that info as well
damn this has been so helpfull! Im so stoked to go and try some stuff on max tonight.
thanx you guys and thanks for taking the time to help a NOOB!:chug: CHEERS!
March 21st, 2003, 02:14 PM
i really didn't read the the whole thread, just kinda skimmed, but i didn't see anything that addressed your texture. i think you have too much useless space in your texture. if you thought about how you put things on there and planned it out you could make things larger on the map and therefore more detailed. also, you don't need to use both sides of the face, you just need one, especially if it's gonna be symmetrical like you have it. if you want a certain section to stand out and not mirror the other side you should be able to cut out those uv's and assign a different texture to them(at least you can in maya). here's a great example on how to optimize your texture space.
hope it helps.