Doodles in 3D

[Erik]

Just a few doodles in 3D -- I'm learning Maya but im working on the modeling stuff first (ok, its surely not perfect bad loops in the forehead and stuff -- but then again its a doodle that i wont continue on, just getting hold of the conversion between poly and subdiv surfaces --- The other one is a test for a small character that i did in Max (lowpoly) for a game.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~erikedf/art/wip/maya_head1.jpg http://www.xs4all.nl/~erikedf/art/wip/maya_head2.jpg http://www.xs4all.nl/~erikedf/art/wip/3ds_lowcharacter.jpg

Crits welcome as I'm new to Maya!

[Neox]

could we see a smooth and a wire version of the head?
looking cool so far, but some loops seem quite "buggy"
the secondone is very simple but he has character with some poses and a cool shader it'll be pretty cool!

[Erik]

Here some wires and smoothed stuff. The head really did not smooth right -- I'm still finding out how the smoothed sizes and areas relate to the poly version in Maya. The head you see was actually the first thing I did in Maya and one of my first 'organic' models with an attempt at being lifelike. I now think it sucks actually ;-)

Studying the frame I can see many many problems with it. I'd like to know your comments on it though neox, since you're obviously a master of this stuff!

The method i used to build it was the one found on http://www.thehobbitguy.com/tutorials/polymodeling/ (ok, this guy has some truly amazing models so be sure to check the site out) -- a new method for me but i think it is a lot easier to use. I skipped the mouth part on this model though...

here goes:


http://www.xs4all.nl/~erikedf/art/wip/maya_headsmooth.jpg http://www.xs4all.nl/~erikedf/art/wip/maya_headsmooth2.jpg http://www.xs4all.nl/~erikedf/art/wip/maya_headwire1.jpg http://www.xs4all.nl/~erikedf/art/wip/maya_headwire2.jpg

I'm happy with the throat area i guess.

[Neox]

as i thought, there are lots of mistakes in the model (every one does these when starting to model heads!)
you have to clean your mesh and check your Edgeloops especially around the eyes and the mouth are eytremly ugly loops, but hey its a good base und you will learn so damn much in the next years (if you keep modelling organic stuff°)

i had to ript this sentence :D
-- OK i realise that this reply sounds a little cocky -- i'm no master of this stuff myself so i should take it back a little.... just trying to relay some stuff i picked up while browsing and learning the tricks! ;-*

[Erik]

;-)

Well, you don't sound cocky - to quote DethJester -- since you can actually model, but i could use some extra pointers on what the edge loops should be like if you have the time...

The head sucks i know, the ones at the eye are even spiraling (!)

Could you maybe place a blown-up head wireframe of the post you did on 'Tahoro'? Or place some explanation of do's and don'ts? I think i'm not the only one here that would be happy to see such stuff!

Thnx!

E.

[Neox]

ok i'll post some pictures after work, because i currently don't have a possibility to get to my ftp
so you want a wireframe of tahoros head? I'll do one :)

[Erik]

I can't wait to see it! Thanx man, really appreciate it!

Erik

[Neox]

ok here's a overpaint i did a few minutes ago, i hope you don't mind, that i just painted over your pictures ;)
http://neox.gfx-scene.de/public/advices/overpaint_001.jpg

the biggest mistake you did is that you have a lot of unfinished loops, thats pretty ugly and definately a don't another thing you should not do is to use that many lines for just a few details, you haven't modelled that much details but you have a lot of lines in your mesh (why?)


ok here's a simple wire of tahoro, not as much lines as in your head ;)
and some ngons, but i definately think, that ngons are much better then tris, just because they smooth better

http://neox.gfx-scene.de/public/advices/tahoro_wire.gif

[Erik]

Hey Neox,

Thanx for the advice, i am trying to see what you mean with the marks you made on the head wires. A question is below.

I see what you mean with the LOD in the number of edges i used. I guess my problem is that i have trouble with going from high-detail areas to low details trying to avoid tris. But i always was trying to get all quads... I did not find out how to do that trick very well...

I used the following:
http://www.thehobbitguy.com/tutorials/polymodeling/images/tut15c.jpg
http://www.thehobbitguy.com/tutorials/polymodeling/images/tut15d.jpg http://www.thehobbitguy.com/tutorials/polymodeling/images/tut15e.jpg
(images copyright http://www.thehobbitguy.com/tutorials/ (http://www.thehobbitguy.com/tutorials) published without asking... hope that's not a problem :rolleyes: )

which leaves you with all quads and is nice for getting a crease but not so nice if you want to do this in a larger area...

The question:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~erikedf/art/wip/geometry.jpg

Which is a better approach? C, D or E?

Thanx for the answers you already gave, sorry to be such a newb and knowledge extractor... but i want to learn ;)

E.

[Neox]

I always keep thos loops open, there will be another loop to connect with! trust me :)
i do not care about loops they just appear ;)
there are a lot of guys outhere praising perfect loops and perfect quadmeshes, give a shit on that! its just stupid to do more and more edges just to get your loops clean, i'm always thinking, that loops are getting clean... in time thats just the trick behind my modelling

so would prefer b and none of the other ways to "clean" your model, they are not better, look at D youve some really stupid tris, who will always be smoothed shit. Look at E what have you done there? Does it make sense? You just moved the problem to another place and added a new problem (the quad in the middle of those quads) thats definately not the way to keep you mesh clean.

Just model, don't think about loops, just model and you will see that those 5sided N-gons will dissapear in time and if not, come on that really doesn't matter!
I have Ngons in tahoro too, to "clean" them with a try or finisheing the loop to somewhere i don't need this much edges is just stupid

look at this picture, the left side is the n-gon and the right side is the tri, so what appears to be smoother?

http://neox.gfx-scene.de/public/advices/Ngon-vs-Tri.jpg

[Erik]

Dig...


Ok, i got the picture. You're example really makes sense through the pictures! Thanx man!

About the edges i just try to follow examples i found on the net, so maybe they're stupid but if i see someone modeling good i believe what they say... should get better when i'm more experienced i guess.

But anyway i wont panic at n-gons anymore ;-)

E.