anyone want to RUMBLE?

[vigostar]

Anyone out there want to go for a challege?? Respond and we'll set the topic and terms...

[JeffZNY]

I'm up for a challenge, but I've got a lot to do today, so I'm not sure I could finish it today. I might need the weekend to pound something out, even if it's just a quickie. If that's cool with you, then let's get it on. You can set the terms...

[vigostar]

JeffNY... A fellow NEW YORKER!!!! Hey, man.. Lets rumble.... I guess we should come up with sort of cool topic... ummm, Eatpoo.com is doing am "Against all odds" ultimate cover contest.. Maybe we could do something like that.. whatever comes to mind... how ever you want to inturp...

[JeffZNY]

hmm, i'm fine with whatever. tell me more about this "against all odds" thing...

[vigostar]

however you would like to inturp it.... Man against machine, small against large, one against all, person with no arms climbing a mountain.... Whatever.. Just make sure you explain when you post... and this time I would like to do something different.. Post development sketches with your final... Just so that we can see eacothers way of thinking... U like?

[JeffZNY]

Alright, let's do it!

[vigostar]

coolo... Set a deadline... How aboutHow about January 9th? With the holidays around its going to be a bit hard to work on stuff.... give us enough time to get some good artwork out... And remember to post thumbs, skecthes or whatever you did in order to reach the final piece

[JeffZNY]

Yeah, Jan. 8th is cool with me...I'll probably have it done sooner. I am gonna warn you though, you might win this one by default because I am going kind of off-topic. When you first proposed "Against All Odds," for some reason the word "Odds" made me think of the word "Oddity," and ever since then I've been thinking along that theme and can't shake it from my mind's eye. You said you''re doing your piece for a contest over on eatpoo, so it's no problem if you stick to the topic more stringently, but I am going to take the liberal approach and satisfy the impulse of my inspiration. Bizarre curiousities will ensue:) And post those sketches if you've got them...I'll post mine shortly.

[vigostar]

Heres basically all the work ive done for thigs thing already.. I started to do a lil side drawing to get away from this one before the poses drive me insane.... Anyways, basically just trying to get figures right... Ive never really done leaping figures and trying to create movement is very hard.... You cant get the full scope of my idea here... And most people wont until I post my final with my explanation... So, here are my WIPS...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vigostar/TDSKETCH2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vigostar/TDSKETCH.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vigostar/TDSKETCH9.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vigostar/TDSKETCH8.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vigostar/TDSKETCH7.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vigostar/TDSKETCH6.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vigostar/TDSKETCH5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vigostar/TDSKETCH4.jpg

[JeffZNY]

Wow, I'm impressed, that's a ton of preperation you're doing for this piece. It's a great habit to have and one that I tend to have little patience for, but probably could benefit greatly from! I feel bad though because our pieces are so different, I've decided that with plenty of time til Jan 8th, I'll post this "Oddity" piece ASAP and try another crack at "Against All Odds" by the deadline...this is a challenge after all...don't know what i was thinking!

[JeffZNY]

Ok, so I'll post this stuff here, because the topic is what inspired me, but I will work on another entry for the challenge. I started this one by using the abstract shape theory, which I've fallen in love with recently. Basically it entails just painting freely, making shapes and forms that you find pleasing to the eye, and then messing around in photoshop, superimposing and rotating layers until something coherent strikes you amongst the madness.
Here's the abstract pattern I created:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/JeffZNY/abstract.jpg
and here it is again after I've started painting a bit, pulling out what I see:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/JeffZNY/1.jpg
worked some more, gave him another set of arms:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/JeffZNY/2.jpg

I'll post more tomorrow. I definitely see a feline's face taking shape at the bottom there, so expect to see some big cat action!

[vigostar]

ahh, very interesting indeed.... Same kind of idea that android goes by... have u seen his tutorial??? Well, I figure that Im going to start on my finished piece by thursday.. Thats the deadline i have given myself.... I'll post all my WIPS here.... Maybe you could do the same... Actually, now that I think about it Im going to do that for all my battles...

[JeffZNY]

I actually haven't seen Android's tutorial...I found this technique through one of Ruinvs's threads. He mentioned that Android had demonstrated the technique at a workshop, but I didn't realize he had a tutorial on the site as well. I will definitely do a search for that.

[vigostar]

actually, I may be wrong about that.. I probably just saw the same thread your talking about and holucinated the rest!!!! but, i wouldnt be surprised if he did have one... sorry about the confusion.. I wouldnt want the CA police to come after me for false something...

[JeffZNY]

alright, here's the "final" black and white version, with color soon to follow. also, i was thinking vigo, since i gather from your other thread that you've clearly got frazetta on the brain, I'll make my Against All Odds piece an homage to frazetta as well. cool?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/JeffZNY/3.jpg

[vigostar]

wats up Jeff.....? Yeah, man whatever you would like to do is fine with me... That last piece you do is looking very good.. I like the idea behind it... Surreal.. You may be onto something new and very innovative... even though you have taken some of the android techniques its clear that your not going the same route... More abstract... The only thing (if your looking for a crit) is that its bit confusing (which may be your objective) but, I feel if you cleaned it up a little bit your end result may have a greater impact... Im not going the Frazetta route on this project (not sure if you thought that) I was actually using it as ref. for another thread... The lord of Quintana <~~? Its to create a dark holiday character... Check it out... for that project im going to do my take on the classic death dealer... Mine is going to be a female on a reindeer holding a huge sickle and from what i gather.. no one wants to fuck with that bitch!

[JeffZNY]

oooooooh ok, i thought frazetta cause you posted that frazetta thread right on the heels of posting those WIP sketches that seemed to be fantasy-driven, so that was the confusion.

and yeah, always looking for crits, man! I take "new and very innovative" as high praise, so thanks a lot. as for it being confusing, i definitely agree. some of these pieces where I use this technique, I feel like I could leave them as black and white, but this one definitely needs color. hopefully i'll be able to post the colored version later today, and you can let me know if it's any less confusing.

[vigostar]

cool man, that seems like a good idea... I wish that I were able to post more often but, my girlfriend kinda banned me from the computer for looking at porn! So, now I have to butter her up before I could scan some stuff in... your working strickly digital right? I have been an anti-digital person until late... These pieces that people are doing here make me think that I have to start.. I used to color with the com but, no com for a while now.... I just dont think its possible to create the effects that they are doing on here with natural mediums.. Unless your a grandmaster painter... Like dansadad... Damb he's good... How old are you jeff??? Im always amazed at the skills of younger people now... Im 25 and struggling to get back into the game.. I wish I never stopped..

[JeffZNY]

Well clearly you're not hiding your porn well enough, buddy :wink: shit, hope my gf doesn't check this thread...

anyway, the ol' digital vs. traditional debate. dansadad does do some amazing stuff...I had to save his whole universal monster series for my archives. if you saw his recent cover for the fantasy/sci-fi expo though, you'll see that his digital work is very similar to his oils work. that's why Painter is such a godsend...the level to which it is able to mimic reallife media is remarkable and just keeps getting better with each new release. Photoshop is still unparelled for tweaking and digital manipulations, but Painter's brushes are invaluable. taking another example, jon foster does amazing work using traditional oils, but he then imports the painting into the computer and brings it up that extra notch. speaking for me personally, 2 years ago I was a wiz at photo manipulation in photoshop, but 100% traditonal when it came to my art. I knew photoshop was capable of your basic, click, fill, darken, lighten coloring, but I had no idea it could mimic brush strokes so realistically until about a year ago. from that time until now it's been a steady climb toward recognizing the capabilities of these programs and utilizing them to maximize my own potential. I graduated from a liberal arts university in May and rather than try for a graduate program, I'm taking some time to teach myself the ropes and try to get myself to a point that I consider professional. Since I began working in Painter about 6 months ago, my work has progressed by leaps and bounds, and I owe most of it to ConceptArt. If you check out my sketchbook, you'll see the transformation. Though I haven't always found ppl to be incredibly helpful, just studying the work on these forums has made a vast difference in my work. occasionally i'll stumble upon a tutorial as well that just blows my mind and completely changes my mode of thinking. I'm a 100% digital person now, and I just can't imagine going back to traditional. Digital is quick and convenient without the ridiculous mess of normal paints or even graphite. It's like the difference between long and short division, or in calc when they teach you the ridiculously tedious way of solving equations only to reveal later that, by the way, there's a much easier and equally legitimate way to do this stuff. That's how I feel about digital art. Just the other day I was on a 4 hour train ride from NY to Boston when I passed the time by painting that old one-eyed seer...it's just so convenient, it's criminal. Without question, my Wacom tablet is my best friend, and the greatest investment I ever made. I too kind of put my art on the back burner for several years, while I explored other options such as writing and film, but since I've come back to it, I'm making up for lost time. glad to find a fellow new yorker on a similar road.

[vigostar]

yeah, man I have actually seen your sketchbook thread.. Im on this site basically all day long.. Luckily I have a job where Im able to do my job and draw and bullshit on the computer all day long... thats why i love my job! I actually gradutaed from Art and Design high school and went to FIT for a semester.. I had that HS mentality still embedded in my brain so I basically flunked out... And recently probably about 6 months now, actually ever since I found EATPOO.com I got into conceptart which I didnt even know existed.. From there looking up uncountable different artist, the inspiration just took me right back to where my heart has always been... Ive been drawing very diligantly now for 6 months straight.. I have actually finished pieces (which many dont think are finished here but, when i conceived the idea that was the finished product) and am working on my third sketch book (which is amazing cuz I had one sketchbook throughout all of HS and never filled it up) working on different projects and its amazing... eventually, I stumbled onto coneptart and it blew me away completely and everyday its a delight to see new members the good and the not so good.... I have only had one piece of good crit here... It came BLACKFROG. who is amazing.. the thread is about drawing pretty girls and his answer wasnt much abiout the technical aspect rather than the theology behind it which was very helpful.. Extremely helpfull.... Im going to actually post some before and after CA art so that you could see where Im from here.. And even the girls.... Ive been procrasting due to lack of funds to take classes at the arts students league on the weekends... to get my figures down... anyways, like you said before its good to know theres someone else out there on the same track.... Its hard to become a great artist but, Im sure that all the great ones never thought it was going to be easy.... Looking foward to more of your work..

[JeffZNY]

Alright, shield your eyes, I went psychedelic with this one. I had ambitious plans, but not really sure about how it turned out.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/JeffZNY/seer.jpg

It's always tough to completely scrap something that you've invested time and energy in, but I think it might work better without the lion.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/JeffZNY/seer2.jpg

[JeffZNY]

Yeah, I don't need any crits to know that that lion's not working. I tried it all different ways too, so it's obvious that the composition is just flawed. I like this version much better...simple, but effective, I think.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/JeffZNY/seer6.jpg

[vigostar]

ok, so why does the bottom half of your piece seem to be squished??? i would have that you would have just taken the top half and flipped it... to make a mirror but, for some reason its not reading that way...

[vigostar]

Hey, Jeff... Thought you might be interested in checking out this guys artwork... Got me freaking super inspired... His sketchbook is top notch...
http://www.jamesjean.com/
enjoy.

[JeffZNY]

Yeah, I shmooshed it for 2 reasons, A) If the reflecting plane is extending nearly straight toward the viewer, wouldn't the man's image be distorted or would it still be just a mirror image? I thought it would be distorted...Too bad we seem to be on our own in this thread, cause I'd like to get some more opinions on this. And B) I thought the composition worked much better this way. Those bony projections from his back are not aligned symmetrically, and really seem to throw off the balance of the image when you simply flip it. I'll think about these problems some more, see if i can come up with a better solution.

[JeffZNY]

Here you can see what I'm talking about. I just don't think it looks nearly as good this way:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/JeffZNY/seer7.jpg

thanks for the link to that guy's work btw...you're right, very inspiring.

[vigostar]

personally, if your trying to create an illusion (which to me that what it seems like) just by flipping it, it would cause more of an effective illusion and give the work some symetry... when you look at it the other way, it seems more like the character is sitting on something, we can read that its the same image as the above but, being that its warped (flattened) it may seem like your trying to convey something different

[JeffZNY]

Walking away from this now...it's the best I can do.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/JeffZNY/seerfinal.jpg

[vigostar]

now thats interesting there.. what u didn with the bottom colors

[JeffZNY]

How's it goin, vigo? Don't know about you, but my new year's was wild. Anywho, I've begun my Against All Odds piece, and I'm putting the Kong spin on it. Jack attempting to rescue Anne...against all odds. This is just a preliminary mock up to identify my composition and forms.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/JeffZNY/kong.jpg

[JeffZNY]

before i pass out to bed, here's what i've got so far. still a WIP...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/JeffZNY/kong2.jpg

[vigostar]

hey, man.. I am definetly going to post tonight.... Unfortunately, my WIP is going to have to be scanned in half and half.. so your going to have to use your imagination....

[the_Satanic_COokie]

hey guys

This topic is really really cool...I wish I coulda got in on this one, would it be too late for me to do something for this?

I understand if I can't.

[JeffZNY]

bring it on, cowboy. we don't even have any judges or anything...just here to motivate one another.

[vigostar]

Yeah, man def. Actually, Jeff I was going to ask you if I could extend the due date on this thing again... Its taking forever.... And I dont want to have to submit something thats been done half-assed.... so this was supposed to be done by the 7th, which is friday, if we can set the date for sunday.... and if im not dne then fuck it.. i'll post what i have....

[JeffZNY]

yeah, i just thought you had some WIPs to post, but if not, then whatever, you can post whenever you'd like. you have a deadline for that eatpoo contest though, no?

[vigostar]

yeah, thjat deadline for the Eatpoo is like January 27th or something like that.. Im not even sure if this is going to be worthy but, I figure why not... It would be interesting to see their take.... The eatpooers are very good at critiques.... They always comment on work... always... I didnt get a chance to scan anything in last night.. i'll def. be home tonight so there shouldnt be a reason why i shouldnt post a WIP...

[the_Satanic_COokie]

ok well...
Keep in mind I suck really bad.
and that these are WIPs. In fact they're just colored sketches...poorly colored...

But I've had a few ideas on this topic..

A) Airship captain diving out of his ship to attack a creature on the ground.

http://cookie.moonside.org/Random/airshipcaptain.jpg

B) A preacher versus a ridiculous demon. I'm working out alot of kinks in this one right now, for one I want the preachers back towards us facing the demon, and probably a bit closer to the viewer, I also need to finish all the little minions that are pulling themselves out of the larger demons gerth.

http://cookie.moonside.org/Random/evil.jpg

but since we're not competing really, I just wanted to see what you thought?

RIp me in half if you dont like them...I need all the crits I can get.

[JeffZNY]

Hey man, you've got some great ideas here...I think your biggest strength right now is composition. both pictures are exceedingly well done in that regard. your linework and coloring is not as mature, but there's nothing wrong there that practice and study can't fix. i'll also say what i'm sure you've heard a thousand times: study anatomy, and use as many references as possible--the more the merrier. something else that might help you is to do some black and white work before proceeding with color. for instance, if you'll notice the WIPs from the piece I did above, I rendered the drawing in black and white, then colored the piece in photoshop using some "color" layers...keep your colors on separate layers and mess around with the hue/saturation controls until you find a pleasing color scheme. Of course, as you said, these are just WIPs, so it'll be interesting to see how you proceed with these pieces, but those are just my quick suggestions on your sketches. Thanks for joining!

BTW, people over in my sketchbook were critical of the composition on the Kong piece, so I tried to improve it some with a small crop and by moving the figure in the foreground over a bit. Let me know if you guys think it's improved:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/JeffZNY/kong3.jpg

[vigostar]

Well, guys, it seems to me that im the biggest hump in the world right now.. I of course didnt get a chance to scan anyhing in last night.... I ended up starting to watch a Miike film and an Almodovar film.... I have to get back to the Miike film.. He's so twisted.. anyways, Im going to see if I could scan my stuff in during lunch... Im porbably going to be doing a piece for the manager of the mailroom/ repro dept at my job so im hoping that he wouldnt mind letting me scan in some stuff... But, I will comment on you guys for now...
Satanic cookie----- You have some good ideas working for you here... I like the dynamics of the first one better than the second.... I think that theres alot more that could be done with the first in respect to the second... The second one is also good but, its kinda falling into the Cliche (BIG MONSTER, little guy) and thats odd for me to say cuz thats what im working on! What a loser I am.. Anyways.... My suggestion to you would be to get yourself alot of ref. if you decide to wok out the first one... Get ref. of people sky diving, to see what the sky looks like when someones in motion, how the clothes are flapping in the wind and so on.... If you decide to go with the second one... My suggestion is to make him holier.... like a pope or a bishop!! Like the highest priest fighting the demon...

Jeff... I didnt see anything wrong intially with the kong.... Then again my composition skills are aweful... I think that you have some nice attributes going on so far.. I like the break of light coing through the trees and the way kong is lit from that.... When looking at this I would comment on something... He's about to go up against kong right? So wouldnt he have some sort of weapon in his hand??? One hand parting the tall grass and the other hand with weapon in hand ready to attack... Well, I really hope that I can finally do this update.... I feel like such a slacker right now.

[vigostar]

ok, guys.. I wasnt able to scan the dammed image in.. I have to figure out how to do it with the machines they have at my job.. Sorry Jeff... Im going to try tomorrow again... Other then that I guess I have to wait till sunday when I go to my friends house to scan it in...

[JeffZNY]

I bet you could pick up a scanner for like 50 bucks. Well worth the investment if you're serious about your art. Don't rush on my account though...I've taken a break from drawing myself, so I'll probably pick Kong up again in a day or two and get back at it...Thanks for the c&c!

[vigostar]

yeah, man.. I dont even own a computer right now.. i live with my girlfriend and shes a picky about me using her computer.... IWell, its my fault actually but, anyways... Hopefully, soometime this year, i'll have my act together... looking for a place to move...

[HugeHarHar]

So when is this new challenge you mentioned? I'm on a roll right now, and better use it before it dies. Heh.

[vigostar]

whats up Har... umm not too sure when I'll do the next challenge... I want to wrap this one up in style, then I have a small/ large project im going to be working on... Im doing my first mural in my friends loft... I need to finalize the image thats going on there... And this one has to be right on point, before I go into production.. So, once im done with the final drawing (which I told my friend that i'll have done by the end of the month, I'll have free time to do everything else.... So, realistically Im thinking within a couple of weeks.. probably right Feb... I should have this challenge done by the weekend.... And I have all the comps done for the mural... But, the challenge I was talking about will be the most challenging for myself and Im sure for others as well... Im just going to need some of the CA grandmasters help...

[HugeHarHar]

Sounds good to me, I'll be ready then.

[vigostar]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vigostar/mon.jpg

[JeffZNY]

hey, give us some setup here, vigo...What was your process, do you plan to add a background or is this final, etc

[vigostar]

hey, jeff.... I was trying to get a computer to explain whats going on here.... Well, first off... Its a really poor scan.. Im going to have my friend rescan a better image of it.. done 99% in pen. I just used a pencil for the basic outline of this image. Originally, and on the actual paper that I did this on I have and started to create a background but, I got very tired of it and didnt like what was giong on so I decided to scrap it and just show my black and whites. This was defintely my best effort ever on a project and even then so I bombed cuz I gave up on it at the last minute. The left leg that has the boot on it wasnt orginally all black... I tried to create the proper folds and drapes but, I didnt have the right angle down, so I tried to mimic the other leg that has his knee on the ground which I happen to like.. Overall I am pleased with this.. Not what I had intended but, its the first drawing that Ive done that has two interacting characters and for my first attempt I think its pretty good... so, there is my explanation, and my issues with it.. Explanation- Against all odds? This is a dipiction of myself fighting my artistic demons. The original image I created had words in it, discouragement, slacker (which was in the motion lines created by the demon), doubt, Determination (which was written in the motion line of the smaller character) but, like I said,... I didnt like the way it was coming out so I scrapped it... Hopefully, I get better with the next one... Ive been really trying to add enviros but, I seem to lack the execution... Like I said, you will see a better image in a couple of days when my friend scans it for me... sp, what are your thoughts Jeff??? Also, this may seem like its a rather simple drawing and a cop out but, I spent alot of time on this.. you will see better what Im talking about in better detail with the better scan..

[JeffZNY]

no way man, i would never say that...it's obvious you put a lot of time into this, so don't worry. i look forward to seeing the better scan so I can get a good look at the details, but it's evident even here that there's a lot of fine pen work going on. the one thing in your work that I would question is your attachment to pen as a medium...it's so permenent by its very nature, that though you are obviously quite adept at it, it's not at all constructive for working out the kinks in your linework. there's room for improvement in your penwork, but in general it's very good. Thus the main thing I'd work on is your linework, i.e. anatomy, proportions. I'd like to see you do more pencil work, where you can erase and rework to your heart's content. Also, you talked about the folds and clothing in your post, but I'm wondering what sort of reference you used...especially in dynamic action poses such as this, references are absolutely crucial. You're very skilled though, and I like this piece a lot.

[JeffZNY]

I might wake up tomorrow and hate this, but for now, let's call it done. C&C to your hearts' content.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/JeffZNY/kong4.jpg

[Lono]

JeffZNY: in all seriousness. you should wipe your harddrive clean of photoshop and do some extensive legwork in your sketch pad.. your getting waaaaaay ahead of yourself with this stuff.

draw your friends.. draw your moms... draw everything.. you can back up the real skills with photoshop trickery later...

-Lono

[vigostar]

hey, jeff.. Thanks alot for those comments.. I almost started to fall in that artist trap of thinking that my work is becoming stagnent.. anyways, your right about the attachment to my pen work.. For some reason I cant get away from it.. I guess its partly due to the fact that its my safety net and I know that when I work in that medium the ultimate outcome is usually pretty good... Originally when I started to draw again I only used the pen, for the sketching and the rendering... As I did for my first thunderdome piece.. Now, Ive moved up to sketching out the basic figures with pencil... I just think that pencils are very messy and I know I could use the blue pencil or just a lighter pencil.. Ahh, im rambling... concerning the drapes and folds... I didnt use any ref for that... I actually didnt use any ref for any of the this piece.. I just worked at the poses until it seemed right to me... Looking at this drawing my friend pointed out and I had noticed something wrong... Was his right shoulder thats doing the punching... The demon that is... Something about it is bothering me... But, those are the things are part of deveoping skills I guess.. I was pretty satisfied with the drapes and lighting on the arm of the jacket and fell into trouble with the pant legs... Big mistake... I also know that the hands on the lil guy suck BIG time and the larger hands look better... Well, hopefully, I see my friend today and see if he scans this thing in for me.. Maybe also i the mean time I'll work on coloring this thing in photoshop.... I have something now that I need to complete by the end of the month, so my energies will be elsewhere...

[vigostar]

hey, jeff... I just wanted to comment on your finished piece... I think that you have some great things going on here.. I really like the kong, the lighting thats shining through the jungled trees, the blurred background is working for you also and the original colors you picked are great. I think that you lose some serious value of his piece with the secondary characters.. They seem to be very out of place. the woman that the kong is holding does relay a very structures figure.. Im going out on a limb and and assume that you didnt use any ref for it (dont worry cuz Im guilty of the same thing) the same goes for the the guy spreading out the bushed leaves... It just seems like you could have done something better, especially with the guy. Something a bit more dynamic. I mean, its gotta be a bit terrifying to see A- an enormous gorilla, B- and enormous gorilla about to use your woman for lunch, a toy or some sexual pleasure (what ever fits your fancy). then there seems to be no depth within the tall leaves in the front... You left the bottom portion all black... Maybe add some tall trees in the forground, some of those very large exotic leaves that are man sized... and I was also a bit confused as to why you added that purplish color? It just seems like you added it in just to add more color... It seems like we both fell into a rut with this project and got tired of it... I really hope I wasnt too harsh but, one thing that I have realized about being an artist is that many times we dont see our mistakes and well, we're here to help eachother out right? I am in some aggreance with what Lono said but, I dont think you should abandon to the photoshop, I think that you should work more on your figures... well, till next time... By the way.. This was the best project Ive worked on thus far... Thanks for the battle.

[JeffZNY]

Yeah, it was a good thing lobo stopped in here just to say that. I guess he's referring to the pic of the Seer above where I flipped it and used some filters for the bottom half...as the WIPs show though, that was not my original intent, and I had become frustrated with what I had going there. As for the Kong piece, it's all Painter, no Photoshop, so there's no "trickery" there. I'm finally getting some positive feedback in my sketchbook since I started working with those abstract shape pieces, and I think it's really freed the way I think and paint, so I certainly am not gonna give up now that ppl are finally responding. Most ppl should probably sketch more than they do, and I'm no different, but blah, whatever...I actually didn't want to respond to the comment, but I felt the need since you alluded to it as well.

In response to what you said...thanks! I did add the purple for a splash of color since I thought the piece was kinda monotone, but I also did it to separate Kong in the mid-ground a bit from the foliage in the foreground. Ultimately though, I should scrap that whole device. A row of leaves in the front of the image with a little man poking through? How boring is that! And you're right, reference for the ape, reference for the jungle, no reference for the figures, lol. And here I was preaching the virtue of references! Also, you hit the nail on the head when you said we both fell into a rut and got tired of these pieces...it's unfortunate because I was really liking what I had going when I started Kong. Oh well, it's not too late to salvage something. I think in the near future I am gonna wipe out the entire bottom of the image and add some boulders and vines...something more visually interesting than the dullness that's there now. Thanks a lot for the crits, you confirmed what I was thinking, and so convinced me to do something about it!

[vigostar]

yeah, man thats good stuff to know... Just a suggestion if your interested in elaborating on that particular project.. Maybe some indiana jones flix would be good inspiration for what your looking for... they have tones of great jungle/ temple of doom and crap in there (in sure you know that already). I wish I had the ability to just rework thing but, using natural mediums its very difficualt... And I hate tracing but, I have to learnt to love it in order to get somewhere... Keep it up man... So, I was thinking of the next battle.... I would liek to start in Feb. it would be nice to get a bunch of people on this one.

The idea- Pick one of the CA grandmasters.... and see if they could send you a pick of what they look like or maybe somewhere in this forum there is one already.
The goal- try to create a character that looks like them using they're stlye of drawing... tough I know but, its something that I think would be a great training tool for some of us.. What do u think???

[JeffZNY]

Constructive crits are always appreciated...I'll PM you.

[JeffZNY]

Is it done now? Maybe not...but it sure looks better without that stupid foreground.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/JeffZNY/kong5.jpg

vigo--that's a pretty darn ambitious topic, but i fun one for sure. you should ask around and see if you can find any more takers. i will certainly give it a shot if i have time.

[vigostar]

ahh, yes.. A step in the right direction but, you lost the size of the gorilla by deleting the character.. I think you need to place something around the gorilla so that we could identify his size. Unless you sharpen the lady its holding... Im going to probably start a thread.... for some of the CAers to submit their pics... I have something I really need to work on now though so, I'll start it in a couple of weeks..

[JeffZNY]

Only some minor changes, but I thought I'd post this here to complete the circle. I'm sick of looking at it, so time to move on:) Thanks for the challenge Vigo, it was fun, and always good to make new friends.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/JeffZNY/kong6.jpg

[vigostar]

Hey, jeff that tree branch in the forground is looking better... I think that maybe you should add a large leaf maybe a spider.... then tackle that chickie hes about to have fpr dinner.... keep it going man... ill repost mine soon.

[rswanson]

Vigo,

I saw your post on another challenge thread about the lack of replies to these threads and about how it impacts your development as an artist. More accomplished artists (professional, etc) at CA don't need as much feedback (not that it doesn't help them, too). I commend your post and agree wholeheartedly.

Soooo, some crit on your work: the level of finish is really exceeding the basics in your work, at this point. You're putting a lot of time shading, etc into your pieces, that much is obvious. If you spent more time on the composition, perspective, anatomy, etc. in your art before you head into the refinement, you'll be better served. If I had more time, I'd be more specific but I can recommend the ole' standby (as painful as it is to do). Drawing from life more or taking life drawing classes will really help you get a firmer grasp on those things. It's definitely an investment. I think anyone can tell you have talent but you need to refine it by starting small. I hope I'm not being too cliche...

[vigostar]

Hey, Jeff... Here is the better scanned version of that drawing... Finally...hope you can give me your comments... Looking foward to seeing you battle it out in the thunderdome...http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vigostar/againstalloddslower.jpg

Thanks for the support Rswanson...- ive gotten to a point where i dont even think about it anymore.. the truth is that when people start to see you around more on the forum they reply more... but, I still stand by what i said... Thanks again man..

[JeffZNY]

Aha! color! Very nice...I'm glad you decided to do something with the background. The penwork is awesome, as it was in the first version as well. No further crits beyond what I've already said, and what rswanson echoed a bit. Looking ahead to your thunderdome, I'd recommend putting some extra time into your linework, maybe in pencil, before going into all the fine details with your penwork. USA, USA!

[vigostar]

yeah, man.. Im really going to try to push the envelope on the new battle... Im def. going to use the pencil a bit more to get accuracy... I just dont like using them cuz they could be a bit messy but, I have to learn. Anyways, gotta get to work..