Your in a Drawing Class...

[Hu Surdadi]

and your instructor has some students pick seven objects and place them on the table in the middle of the room. Then she sets you up in an ackward position to draw such as, standing you up at an E-zle with a huge piece of paper, almost verticle and and says draw. Well, for me this is a weird position to be in when I'm sketching out a pic. And the items are a birdcage with a skull inside of it. A horse on the back, a box with a tea kettle on it, a boot beside that, a maracca in from of the skull, a hand holding on to the top of the birdcage and a little man holding on to the birdcage infront of the horse. I'm not really saying anything but what do you do. I have no real focal point to work from and damn if I'm not comfortable drawing with this equipment. Any suggestions on what would make this easier for me? And I believe this is the way the class is going to be for the semester. Yeah, that's about it. Just wanted to rant. Thanks.

[Elwell]

Standing at an easel, working vertically on large paper is how you should be drawing in a life class. Get used to it.

[vineris]

Well, for me this is a weird position to be in when I'm sketching out a pic.

But it's a much better position than pretty much any other way to draw, and you'll get used to it pretty quick if you just suck it up, do it, and practice at home any time you can. If your instructor didn't mention it, don't hold your pencil as if you were writing, hold it so you can use the flat of the pencil lead against the paper. There's a couple other ways to grip a pencil that I don't use, I'm sure you can google them pretty easily.

The process of drawing all the items you described is exactly the same as drawing anything else, it just requires a little more care in measuring and takes longer. Don't make it out to be a bigger thing than it is.

Anyway, what I would do is pick a part of the composition that seemed reasonably fun to draw and might look all right (instead of trying to get everything in), shut the complaining part of my brain off and draw.

[JJacks]

Really? What did you expect out of a drawing class????

[Elwell]

Oh BTW, http://www.youryoure.com/

[Qitsune]

Holy crap, I love that website, thanks!

BTW, the only thing I find weird, is the teacher is using objects way too complicated for people who don't even know how to stand at an easel (let alone, spell easel.) I might start them up with a box and an apple or something.

[erinc]

I'm not really saying anything but what do you do... Any suggestions on what would make this easier for me? And I believe this is the way the class is going to be for the semester.

You draw. I assume that's why she gave you the paper. You probably have a pencil or piece of charcoal to work with.

It sounds to me like you're totally overthinking the class. Is drawing in a new position so difficult? Honestly? I bet you'll get used to it after 5 minutes. And you'll realize that it can be more comfortable than sitting hunched over a drawing board. And, you'll quickly notice how it's so, so much easier to glance to the side of the easel than to constantly have to look up and then down again.

[Pigeonkill]

Hu Surdadi, actually I'm not a fan of standing up while life drawing myself. If there is room, I would just use a drawing horse and slant my drawing pad on it. Art supplies are easier to reach when seated. (Be sure to compensate the perspective slant while drawing objects that are upright)

If you need help finding a focus point on a drawing, you can make a simple view finder for composition. Just take a index card, cut a square in it. Whatever you see in that hole that interest you, draw away. You can always crop what you see when you don't have time to draw everything.

Try out your teacher's suggested position for while. If you are still uncomfortable, you won't draw well. Find a position that works for you.

[Saramel]

The comfort issue might have to do with standing for long periods of time - investing in a good pair of shoes and concentrating on proper posture will help take the pain off your joints, and without the pain, you may find tackling the challenging composition to be exhilarating rather than unfair.

[Princess-Bettafish]

Standing at an easel, working vertically on large paper is how you should be drawing in a life class. Get used to it.

Damn this place is snark central.Some of you need to sit back, have some coffee and remember that not everyone does everything just like you. And there's no need to be rude to people.

OP, I dislike standing around for long ass periods of time as well.Ask the instructor if you can have like, a high seated stool or something. Or you can just move your whole setup. I don't see why you couldn't.

[MightyApplejacks]

Drawing big is a no-brainer in life drawing. Standing up on the other hand, not necessary if you ask me. There have always been stools available in my life drawing classes at uni and at the local college- just ask, and I'm sure one will be provided. If not, you might need to give your back a break from time to time.

[Elwell]

Damn this place is snark central.

Sometimes. But that was hardly an example.

[Princess-Bettafish]

Sometimes. But that was hardly an example.

Christ I'd hate to see some of you people with full on snark mode.
Calm down, and get shooshpapped.

[Suncut]

I think there are actually quite good reasons to be standing. For one, you can just step back and see your work and your model at the same time, which you should be doing all the time. And you should be using your whole body and arm to draw, which is a ton easier when you can actually move your whole body. Picture a person which both shoulders raised standing right next to the paper doing tiny scribbling with only his wrist. You want the exact opposite of that.

Those were the reasons given to us when we started drawing classes, and I hated having to stand at the start, my back and the soles of my feet were continuously killing me (I did have good shoes too, I just have flat feet), but after about two moths the pains went a away and I agree with the teachers, it's just the best way to draw. Give it enough effort, take frequent breaks. Everyone in our classes was grumpy at start, but no one preferred sitting after it.

[Elwell]

Christ I'd hate to see some of you people with full on snark mode.
Calm down, and get shooshpapped.

Wow, you really put me in my place.

[Tim Murphy]

I've got a feeling this thread is going to go poorly, placing my bet now.


Then she sets you up in an ackward position to draw such as, standing you up at an E-zle with a huge piece of paper, almost verticle and and says draw. Well, for me this is a weird position to be in when I'm sketching out a pic.

If you haven't done it before, it can be strange, yeah. Give it a chance though, once you get into the flow of things it becomes quite a comfortable position to work in with advantages over working at a desk.


Christ I'd hate to see some of you people with full on snark mode.

Wasn't really any snark there, he was telling the truth. That's the way it's been done for hundreds of years (that or horses).

[Saramel]

WOOT! Way to put a CA moderator in his place with KAWAII ANIME SKILLZ!!!1

[Black Spot]

Christ I'd hate to see some of you people with full on snark mode.

We're actually quite nice here.

I take it that you're American with the Princess title. Not a snark, just an observation of the internet.

[dpaint]

Quit being such a pussy and draw standing, the people who can't never amount to anything; as you can tell from the bad drawing that was posted.. How's that for snarky ?

[manlybrian]

Haha, dpaint doesn't mince words.

[Conniekat8]

Quit being such a pussy and draw standing, the people who can't never amount to anything; as you can tell from the bad drawing that was posted.. How's that for snarky ?


6.756
I think I've seen you do better.

[Conniekat8]

Any suggestions on what would make this easier for me?

Focus on work you need to do, find something pleasant about it, shift your focus away from discomforts. After a while, you'll get used to it, and it will no longer be uncomfortable.
Like, if you are learning how to play a new sport, at first things feel uncomfortable. Drawing classes you are also acquiring new physical skills.

[vineris]

Christ I'd hate to see some of you people with full on snark mode.

Yes. That is actually the point.

[Conniekat8]

oh, oh, how could have we forgotten this:
"Stop whining start working" thread!
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=223223

[dpaint]

6.756
I think I've seen you do better.

I try to eschew obfuscation, could you be more straight forward?

[Falchion]

Problems standing for a while? Try imitating a stork and switch legs or something. Works pretty good for me.

[Kamber Parrk]

I try to eschew obfuscation, could you be more straight forward?

It's just that you're usually more scathing!

[Kamber Parrk]

and your instructor has some students pick seven objects and place them on the table in the middle of the room. Then she sets you up in an ackward position to draw such as, standing you up at an E-zle with a huge piece of paper, almost verticle and and says draw. Well, for me this is a weird position to be in when I'm sketching out a pic. And the items are a birdcage with a skull inside of it. A horse on the back, a box with a tea kettle on it, a boot beside that, a maracca in from of the skull, a hand holding on to the top of the birdcage and a little man holding on to the birdcage infront of the horse. I'm not really saying anything but what do you do. I have no real focal point to work from and damn if I'm not comfortable drawing with this equipment. Any suggestions on what would make this easier for me? And I believe this is the way the class is going to be for the semester. Yeah, that's about it. Just wanted to rant. Thanks.

Well, crap!

They're trying to get you to draw something out of a David Lynch film!

What ever happened to a bottle, or maybe a box, for beginner artistic target practice?

[Cory Hinman]

I have no real focal point to work from and damn if I'm not comfortable drawing with this equipment.
Excellent! Let learning commence!

[TinyBird]

They're trying to get you to draw something out of a David Lynch film!
I'd have killed for something like that in my class... We had four or five small tables stacked on top of each other on all manner of ways. So many straight lines... so much confusing perspective... I still see boring nightmares from those overlapping table legs.

[MightyApplejacks]

Funny though, the setup everyone had seemed to be fine enough. I could see the model perfectly well, it's not like I had to change positions just to see her and the work. Are you saying my community college was 'doing it wrong'? Bear in mind that I was in a class with a lot of old dears- standing up for so long simply isn't an option.

Even the tutor at my life drawing class in uni was cool with us sitting down. There was a mix of A3-A1 type drawing, so it's not like we were hunching over backs over a tiny A6 pad. (If I recall correctly we were even on the floor with the A1 painting. Though I wouldn't recommend that if you have a bad back..)

[Arshes Nei]

We sat down in class, however, if I had an instructor that wanted us to to work standing up, not a big deal, it's only one class. I can understand if you have foot problems or back problems (I have flat feet) but man, sometimes I just shake my head.

It's only one class. It's not like they told you to rape your mother's cat or something.

[Saramel]

Yeah, we had some teachers who wanted us to stand, and some who didn't mind. I certainly appreciated the classes where I could sit after I had just been standing behind the counter at Starbucks since 4:30 a.m., but being made to stand at an easel a couple times a week was really valuable as I got to experience the benefits first hand.

[MightyApplejacks]

You guys have a point. I was afraid that it was considered 'proper' to do it standing all the time (if that was true I worry for a lot of the oldies in my group..), but one class in so many really isn't much to shake a fist at, lol.

The only thing that seriously annoyed me was using the plumbline. I couldn't get it to keep still for the life of me..

[dose]

I didn't read the whole thread carefully, but nobody seems to have mentioned the benefits of working while standing at a vertical easel:


It allows you to step back from your piece more readily than sitting down. Stepping back is critical to assessing your piece objectively while working on it. Generally speaking, the more you step back from your piece and/or squint the better off you will be. Sitting down is conducive to leaving your nose buried a few inches from your piece and then remembering at the end of class that you should have stepped back.
On a similar note, working standing is more conducive to moving around the subject to learn more about it, which is a great advantage to working from life in the first place.
If your working surface is not exactly perpendicular to your direction of view, you will introduce perspective distortions into your piece. If the top of your working surface is tipped slightly away from you, everything at the top of the page will look too large when viewed from a proper angle.
Sitting is terrible for your body, and if you are serious about art you will be doing hours and hours of it and the fewer spent sitting, the better.


I'm sure there's more, but this is a quick list.

[Hu Surdadi]

After reading your comments, hum? Thanks, Oh the biggest one what what did I expect out of a drawing class? More like the teacher coming behind us and suggesting we focus on this or that. I mean I'm paying some one to instruct me. If I just wanted to sit and draw I would hang out here more. You know," You could be here, so draw!"

[TinyBird]

More like the teacher coming behind us and suggesting we focus on this or that. I mean I'm paying some one to instruct me.

Well, not all classes and teachers work in the same way, or even the same way through the semester. Also for the teacher to come behind you and tell you what to fix and pay more attention to, you generally need to have something on the paper first.

[MightyApplejacks]

After reading your comments, hum? Thanks, Oh the biggest one what what did I expect out of a drawing class? More like the teacher coming behind us and suggesting we focus on this or that. I mean I'm paying some one to instruct me. If I just wanted to sit and draw I would hang out here more. You know," You could be here, so draw!"

If you're not getting enough instruction then take it up with the teacher, that is, once you've done some work.

Also bear in mind that the model in front of you is trained and there for your work. They're going to be a much more valuable resource than any bunch of photographs (they're not distorted, for one thing), they can give you what simply drawing at home can't. (I'd know- I'm useless at being a life model for my boyfriend, I twitch all the damn time. So I suggested that he join me drawing in class next time I signed up for more life drawing) That alone is worth paying for.

[Arshes Nei]

After reading your comments, hum? Thanks, Oh the biggest one what what did I expect out of a drawing class? More like the teacher coming behind us and suggesting we focus on this or that. I mean I'm paying some one to instruct me. If I just wanted to sit and draw I would hang out here more. You know," You could be here, so draw!"

Yes, you are paying them. However, they're not paid to read your mind, so you need to engage them. Ask your teacher questions.

[carakhan]

if this is your first college art class, give it time. The first drawing class I took in art school we did the same thing. They just had us set up and do a still life, while not instructing at all. But that was to see what you are capable of! On our last day of class, they set up the same still life and had us draw it again, and while discussing our final grades they showed us the both of them and talked about how much we improved.
You're getting ahead of yourself and making judgements too quickly. Trust your teacher and do the work.

[OmenSpirits]

thread tags,

arshes nei rapes cats, elwell got shooshpapped

:wtf:

[Arshes Nei]

thread tags,

arshes nei rapes cats, elwell got shooshpapped

:wtf:

Yeah but we have the ability to see who added them ;)

[Izi]

We should not have to be explaining sight-size. Your teacher should have done that and it sounds like a crappy teacher and a crappy drawing school. There is a proper way to introduce a student to measuring and sight size and putting them in front of an easel with a complicated still life composition is not it.

When I started in sight size methodology I was not comfortable with the new way either, but my teacher put me at ease by setting up my expectations properly and monitoring my progress throughout the session, listening to my concerns and explaining why we did things this way (that is, the French Academic way) If your teacher is not doing this it is right to feel uncomfortable. I would take what you can get out of the class and then leave as you can.

[Conniekat8]

We should not have to be explaining sight-size. Your teacher should have done that and it sounds like a crappy teacher and a crappy drawing school. There is a proper way to introduce a student to measuring and sight size and putting them in front of an easel with a complicated still life composition is not it.

Maybe they haven't gotten that far yet.
In my first drawing class, the teacher had us do "pre instructional" drawing, to see where everyone is at before starting the class, and so we have something at the end of the semester to compare to, to see how much we improved.

For most colleges we're in the first week of class at the moment.

The OP hasn't given us the purpose of their current assignment, so it's hard to judge if the teacher is doing it right, without knowing why they're doing what they're doing.

[Hu Surdadi]

Contour drawing was on the block today. Is Contour and rendering the same idea? And do you feel a blind contour will assist in greater hand eye coordination?

[vineris]

And do you feel a blind contour will assist in greater hand eye coordination?

Not really, but it sure is a good way to get the student to look at the thing they're drawing more than the paper they're drawing it on. And that's pretty important.

[Awynt]

Contour drawing was on the block today. Is Contour and rendering the same idea? And do you feel a blind contour will assist in greater hand eye coordination?

Hon, these are questions you should be asking your instructor. Don't be shy, guaranteed there is at least one other student in the class wondering exactly what you're wondering, and would be happy you spoke up.

[Hu Surdadi]

Well, I have heard many times rendering on this forum but never contour. And you guys are professionals and I would like to hear from more than one source. Plus I have been using a person as a guide on this forum before I had a teacher and now I don't know who to follow. I mean, I haven't even seen my instructors work. And one more thing... Can you get a Ph.D in art instructions?

[Gerulaitis]

Dogma and art don't always mix. Don't follow just one person, follow whoever/whatever can teach you things you might find useful. Contradictions between sources are valuable - you get to ask "why", "for what purpose" and "in what cases".

Contour drawing is primarily good for observation, then also line weight, rhythm and sensitivity in lines, simplifying and controlling detail vs. lack of detail in a composition. Blind contour is good for training hand-eye coordination and observation, but it's hardly useful outside its application as an exercise.

Also, try the search feature. There were a few threads about contour.

[Birkeley]

I agree on not following one teacher. In fact, having more than one teacher is a big advantage. Different artists have different techniques and some will work better for you than others. If they give you differing advice, try out both methods and see which works for you.

When I was 19 I went to a college to do an art foundation year which had lots of life and still life drawing - useful to a point - but little to no instructional component. Essentially, the tutors would give us an assignment then go and read a newspaper and have a coffee, then come back at the end to point out things we did well or not well. I left the college with a portfolio of observational drawing but without a clue that things like anatomy study, colour theory, composition and so on existed. I gave up on art for years after that experience, only later discovering what I SHOULD have been taught and what I could do with it.

So "trust your teacher" is not necessarily good advice, because there are bad teachers and bad courses out there. You know your teacher's name, yes? Google them and look for some of their work. If there is no sign of them or any of their art that would be a big red flag in my opinion. Someone who is teaching art should also be an active artist, or at the very least have been so previously. Practice what you preach and so on. The GOOD art teachers I had later showed the students their websites with their work.

I don't like standing to draw either and I think that is OK. Remembering to stand up and step back to check your work now and then isn't so difficult (and you shouldn't be sitting for long periods without standing up to stretch your legs anyway). Sitting and hunching IS bad, but you can use a table easel or drawing board to eliminate the hunching aspect. I have a kneeling chair which is amazing for sitting posture and much better for your back than a regular chair. I really recommend them.

[Conniekat8]

Well, I have heard many times rendering on this forum but never contour. And you guys are professionals and I would like to hear from more than one source. Plus I have been using a person as a guide on this forum before I had a teacher and now I don't know who to follow. I mean, I haven't even seen my instructors work. And one more thing... Can you get a Ph.D in art instructions?

Large part of learning to draw is learning how to look and *really* see things. Blind contour and contour drawing are exercises meant to teach you how to slow down and really focus on seeing things. The teacher is showing you how to walk, before you can run. As you get better, some of these things will become more subconscious and refined, to a point that unless you're trying to teach someone from scratch, you may not even realize any more you;re doing it.

Rendering is something different...

Being really good at teaching drawing,m and being really good at drawing aren't the same thing. It does not sound like the teacher is leading you astray. Sounds more like you are being put through a normal beginning drawing class. Stop fighting the process, and listen to the teacher, learn as much as you can..... from each teacher you have.

After you gain a lot of different experiences and ways of doing things, and develop as an independent artist more, you'll be glad you have a number of tools in your arsenal that you can use to create whatever you want.

[Hu Surdadi]

So, now it is focused on negitive shapes. Wow, all I can say, no matter what, I will always love you.

on a side note, started an art club on campus. Now, you can call me President. I'm kind of a big deal. :teeth: Okay, not yet, but, it will be.

[dpaint]

Contour drawing was on the block today. Is Contour and rendering the same idea? And do you feel a blind contour will assist in greater hand eye coordination?

Shape (contour), is very important. Blind contour is a gimmick IMO. Learning to draw a correct shape is valid but not looking at what your doing is not helpful. You learn by comparison and correction.

I also disagrree about studying with more than one teacher at the same time especially if they don't teach the same sort of thing. With teachers it is best to practice serial monogamy. Find a good one, stay with them until you learn everything they have to offer then replace them with a better one and repeat the process. Jumping around and learning conflicting styles and genres won't help you as much as a slow and consistent approach.

[alesoun]

My least favourite exercise in all the world is drawing without lifting your pen/pencil from the paper. The results are always abysmal, but, it doesn't half make you think about what you're doing...