should guns be allowed on college campuses

[stragan]

i want your opinion :) :) :)

i think it should be allowed because laws only affect the law-abiding. that means school shooters are gonna bring guns anyway.
and if guns were allowed, school shooters could have been shot dead by the saner ones before he/she even kill more people.
to me, saying that college kids will go on a shooting spree if guns were allowed is like saying that people will lose morale and start killing eachother if god wasn't taught in public schools. the last time i checked, god-believers and atheists were equally as immoral.

and also... maybe ladies and gays or anyone who are often targeted for violence/murder/rape in college can *have the opportunity* to defend themselves. i didn't say guns will magically defend someone, but having the opportunity to at least scare off an attacker (even a group of attackers) is still good, unless the attacker points the gun first.

i mean ok the best weapon to prevent targeted crime is social grouping, awareness, teamwork, and support but obviously social change takes a long time. in an ideal world, people can just sit down have a discussion and be like "we conclude that its inappropriate to attack ladies and gay people are okay!" and prevent many attacks from then on, but waiting for social change to solve a problem is like trying develop a genetic mod that prevents cancer while not allowing the current patients from using chemotherapy. and of course, letting the current patients die because "genetic mods are going to solve more problems.... in a few decades"



argue with me. btw this isn't about "should there be gun control", it's about "should guns be banned on campuses"

[Flake]

I propose that guns be outlawed, but the carrying of a sword be legalised.

[crossmirage]

I'd rather carry a melee weapon than a gun.

And honestly, in the face of danger, how many people are calm enough to get the damn boomstick out, disable safety, load it, aim accurately, then fire?

[Flake]

Crossmirage, when I rule the world all melee weapons will be equally legal.

If nothing else I feel it will give people some pause for thought before attempting to rob that old asian guy with the samurai sword..

I feel a more polite society will be the inevitable result.

[stragan]

I propose that guns be outlawed, but the carrying of a sword be legalised.

not fair what about slowpokes like me with one arm

[Flake]

You get a short sword or an axe. Didn't do the Roman legions any harm. They stabbed most of Europe with one arm.

I suggest you wear armour on your off side.

[stragan]

I'd rather carry a melee weapon than a gun.

And honestly, in the face of danger, how many people are calm enough to get the damn boomstick out, disable safety, load it, aim accurately, then fire?

i read that as 'male' weapon
ugh smh

anyway not many people will be calm but most people who are trained with guns can stay calm. but lets assume that these are just regular college students. i am sure that out of the hundreds of people in the building, there would have been a dozen or two with a gun who could have shot without losing their minds

[Flake]

No, guns are banned and illegal now, remember?

[stragan]

You get a short sword or an axe. Didn't do the Roman legions any harm. They stabbed most of Europe with one arm.

I suggest you wear armour on your off side.

carryin an axe everywhere i go? smh i dont want to look like something from world of warcraft.

not that i want to carry a weapon anyway

[Flake]

i want your opinion :) :) :)
i think it should be allowed

This indicates that you think it should be cool to carry a weapon on campus.
I agree, just not something as impersonal as a glock.

Sword fight, if it's really that big a deal.
Or, y'know talk it out like reasonable human beings.

[crossmirage]

Okay, everyone carry shields only. That way we can defend ourselves, attack with shield bashings, and get an extra canvas to scribble on.

Also, I dunno if it's just me but I find firearms bigger than pistols rather... clunky to use. Or maybe it's just my tiny baby hands.

[stragan]

This indicates that you think it should be cool to carry a weapon on campus.
I agree, just not something as impersonal as a glock.

Sword fight, if it's really that big a deal.
Or, y'know talk it out like reasonable human beings.

nothing wrong with glocks


having guns =/= shooting spree
just as atheism =/= immoral rampage

[vineris]

College. You mean the place where a good chunk of people spend a good chunk of their day drunk out of their gourd? No, I don't think it's a good place for guns.

I think more people would die in the first week from one of their buddies showing off than have ever been killed in school shootings.



and also... maybe ladies and gays or anyone who are often targeted for violence/murder/rape in college can *have the opportunity* to defend themselves.


You say this like there's murderous gangs of criminals roaming college campuses looting and pillaging. You're more likely to get raped by that nice guy you invited over for a study session or that clean-cut boy sympathetically bringing you drinks at a party than some pervert hiding in the bushes.

[Flake]

There is though, glocks are now illegal in my New World Order.

You got beef? Swordfight or sort it out rationally.

Hey, I didn't make the rules..oh wait. :D

[blogmatix]

i want your opinion :) :) :)

i think it should be allowed because laws only affect the law-abiding. that means school shooters are gonna bring guns anyway.
and if guns were allowed, school shooters could have been shot dead by the saner ones before he/she even kill more people.

It will lead to worse massacres, because when a school shooting starts, how do you recognize the shooter? Well, he's the guy with the gun. If everybody whips out their guns, everybody is going to start shooting at everybody.

[Demo]

Not to be a downer on your point by from my position, being a student in a completely useless Liberal arts college. its pretty clear that this is the last place in society that I want a gun. I'm not trying to be a D!^K but in all honesty these people are some of the biggest dipS#!ts, and are either drunk, or doing something completely stupid and fraternity/ sorority related.

[Flake]

Imagine how funny a drunken sword fight would look though..

[s.ketch]

I can't count how many times I've been asked if I had a pencil to borrow during class. That's a mostly harmless splinter of wood with writey stuff in the middle. I'd hate to see what would happen to a pistol.

I do want to get my carry license though. So I can pop pansy hippies when they try to sell me weed and LSD on the street.

[erinc]

There is though, glocks are now illegal in my New World Order.

The fundamental flaw with this rule is that I can't ever be a gunslinger if I can't have guns. And I really want to be a gunslinger. Swordslinger just doesn't have the same badass ring to it.

[stragan]

There is though, glocks are now illegal in my New World Order.

You got beef? Swordfight or sort it out rationally.

Hey, I didn't make the rules..oh wait. :D

say that to the virginia tech people. "why didn't you just talk him out of it, he wouldnt have killed people then"

[stragan]

Not to be a downer on your point by from my position, being a student in a completely useless Liberal arts college. its pretty clear that this is the last place in society that I want a gun. I'm not trying to be a D!^K but in all honesty these people are some of the biggest dipS#!ts, and are either drunk, or doing something completely stupid and fraternity/ sorority related.

allowing guns on campus =/= EVERYONE having guns. most people dont even have guns in college

[erinc]

allowing guns on campus =/= EVERYONE having guns. most people dont even have guns in college

Yeah, but allowing guns on campus does vastly increase the likelihood that more people will have easy access to guns. Thinking back to the number of people in my dorm alone who couldn't make microwave popcorn without disaster makes me disinclined to trust any of them with guns.

I think you're greatly overestimating the abilities of the average college student.

[stragan]

It will lead to worse massacres, because when a school shooting starts, how do you recognize the shooter? Well, he's the guy with the gun. If everybody whips out their guns, everybody is going to start shooting at everybody.

as someone else said, most people probably wouldnt just start shooting at once due to the shock

or the shooter wouldn't shoot in the first place. kind of like how many countries can shoot nuclear bombs at eachother but no one is doing so, because if one sets off, then the rest will all set off to cause a massive shitstorm

[s.ketch]

say that to the virginia tech people. "why didn't you just talk him out of it, he wouldnt have killed people then"

But everyone having a gun wouldn't have prevented a shooting. Dude was going to kill people regardless of whether or not they were armed. The only thing everyone having guns would have ensured was that there would have been more gunshot victims.

That or it would have been an escalation. Everyone has guns, so now what? Build a bomb! Their guns can't prevent that. Now VTech has a crater where one of the buildings used to be and everyone is scrambling to understand how the guy got his hands on fertilizer.

Or we can just accept that while the tragedy seemed absolutely preventable in hindsight, it wasn't. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindsight_bias) Giving irresponsible kids some guns, amending the constitution, or putting a policeman on every corner aren't the answers.

[stragan]

Yeah, but allowing guns on campus does vastly increase the likelihood that more people will have easy access to guns. Thinking back to the number of people in my dorm alone who couldn't make microwave popcorn without disaster makes me disinclined to trust any of them with guns.

I think you're greatly overestimating the abilities of the average college student.

doubt that most people will use guns as much as a microwave

and i dont hear about college students slitting at eachother in drunk parties or frat houses so i doubt that guns will increase violence
as said, only the crazy will be crazy, no matter what weapons they have

that said, alot of college kids get drunk and drive. should we ban cars on the campus too and make them all use public transit?

[s.ketch]

should we ban cars on the campus too and make them all use public transit?

Freshman usually aren't allowed to have cars. And they don't allow drinking in dorms, even though it slips by.

[Psychotime]

Or we can just accept that while the tragedy seemed absolutely preventable in hindsight, it wasn't. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindsight_bias)

Wasn't the Virginia Tech kid certified mentally ill by a professional psychologist back in high school, but due to a privacy law loophole the college nor the gun dealer could catch wind of that kind of major information?

[s.ketch]

Wasn't the Virginia Tech kid certified mentally ill by a professional psychologist back in high school, but due to a privacy law loophole the college nor the gun dealer could catch wind of that kind of major information?


In middle school, he was diagnosed with a severe anxiety disorder known as selective mutism, as well as major depressive disorder.[8] After this diagnosis he began receiving treatment and continued to receive therapy and special education support until his junior year of high school. During Cho's last two years at Virginia Tech, several instances of his abnormal behavior, as well as plays and other writings he submitted containing references to violence, caused concern among teachers and classmates.


In the report, the panel criticized the failure of the educators and mental health professionals who came into contact with Cho during his college years to notice his deteriorating condition and help him. The panel also criticized misinterpretations of privacy laws and gaps in Virginia's mental health system and gun laws. In addition, the panel faulted Virginia Tech administrators in particular for failing to take immediate action after the first shootings. Nevertheless, the report did acknowledge that Cho was still primarily responsible for not seeking assistance and for his murderous rampage.

There are multiple reasons.

[Demo]

allowing guns on campus =/= EVERYONE having guns. most people dont even have guns in college


Point of post,

1. I go to liberal arts college.
2. Observation has shown me that College students make stupid decisions on a daily basis.

Original question: should guns be allowed on college campuses

3. From what Iv seen short answer no.
4. To further elaborate I'm not worried about Susie smith, whose failing painting 101 btw, randomly pulling out her walther p-38 spray painted pink and recreating the valintines day massacre across my studio.

I'm more worried about that one kid who now thinks he has a legit reason to carry some random concealed weapon, hates every religion, race, sexual orientation, and goes around campus with his jacked up truck with the back window spray painted with the rebel flag, complete with gun rack for that rainy day when he has to chose between umbrella or shotgun. <--......Not that this is always a factor to cut you to the quick yes i realize I sterotyped there just making random background to establish the character/setting......... Who gets drunk every friken night and day after classes and thinking hes either going to be the cool guy, or some sort of hero, Randomly going apeshit across campus because college students make the best decisions.

Yes of coarse there's always going to be that random situation where guy brings the gun to class because Susie broke up with him because he gets drunk too much, and she cant handle his emotional baggage and her kitch painting career. I just dont see the necessary reason to allow guns to be readily on hand in a place with a bunch of emotional, idiots, that make great decisions daily.

There's no Susie Smith. Any and all similarities between the names above are purely coincidental and unintentional :D

[Demo]

Side note who really feels safe sitting in Art History, dude next to you as a holstered handgun, dude in back has one in the small of his back. Distracting as all get out.

[stragan]

I'm more worried about that one kid who now thinks he has a legit reason to carry some random concealed weapon, hates every religion, race, sexual orientation, and goes around campus with his jacked up truck with the back window spray painted with the rebel flag, complete with gun rack for that rainy day when he has to chose between umbrella or shotgun. <--......Not that this is always a factor to cut you to the quick yes i realize I sterotyped there just making random background to establish the character/setting......... Who gets drunk every friken night and day after classes and thinking hes either going to be the cool guy, or some sort of hero, Randomly going apeshit across campus because college students make the best decisions.

Yes of coarse there's always going to be that random situation where guy brings the gun to class because Susie broke up with him because he gets drunk too much, and she cant handle his emotional baggage and her kitch painting career. I just dont see the necessary reason to allow guns to be readily on hand in a place with a bunch of emotional, idiots, that make great decisions daily.

There's no Susie Smith. Any and all similarities between the names above are purely coincidental and unintentional :D

uh yea, that kind of kid isn't going to follow the rules and keep his gun at home if guns are banned on the campus. as said, laws only affect the law-abiding and thats a difference between:
1. a crazy emotionally disturbed kid who brings gun anyway vs. the rest of the law-abiding kids who become easy targets
2. crazy kid with gun vs. a handful of sane kids who have guns to defend themselves and others

if guns are banned, no sane kid is going to bring a gun. but if guns are banned, the crazy kid will bring a gun anyway. or an axe. or a knife.
allowing guns on campus doesn't mean that most students will start bringing guns, because most probably dont even have guns. but for the ones who do and think its necessary to protect themselves, let them be.

are you against girls bringing pepper spray inside their purse too because they might get angry at another girl and start spraying eachother?

[Beeston]

The right to bare arms is not the same as allowing their liberal use. Freedom is stupid when it's placed at higher priority than common sense.

So short answer, no. We have enough gun killings as it is here in Australia without gun licenses even being legal. Apparently it's ten times worse over there in the states.

[stragan]

Side note who really feels safe sitting in Art History, dude next to you as a holstered handgun, dude in back has one in the small of his back. Distracting as all get out.

why is it disturbing?
so okay, he has the potential to hurt you. but so are athletic guys who can break anyone's bones within a minute. are you scared of the athlete's strength too?
i'd be worried about who's holding the gun not the gun itself. just as i'd be scared of a crazy big guy than just a regular athletic classmate

[stragan]

The right to bare arms is not the same as allowing their liberal use. Freedom is stupid when it's placed at higher priority than common sense.

So short answer, no. We have enough gun killings as it is here in Australia without gun licenses even being legal. Apparently it's ten times worse over there in the states.

thats what i was just trying to say. having gun =/= using it for no good reason

maybe there are less crimes in australia because the criminals think "oh shit, if i try to shoot the guy next to me i might get shot too"

[Demo]

if guns are banned, no sane kid is going to bring a gun. but if guns are banned, the crazy kid will bring a gun anyway. or an axe. or a knife.
allowing guns on campus doesn't mean that most students will start bringing guns, because most probably dont even have guns. but for the ones who do and think its necessary to protect themselves, let them be.

are you against girls bringing pepper spray inside their purse too because they might get angry at another girl and start spraying eachother?

that one kid who now thinks he has a legit reason to carry some random concealed weapon
School says you can now bring gun to campus to protect yourself= one or two people have now an incentive to bring them because it is allowed. not every one just a few.

Readily available compared to crazy dude bringing one maybe maybe not.

Last time I checked pepper spray does not cause large impact holes that are usually fatal, but that was last time I checked I wont pretend to be an expert on the subject. That and its normal for girls to totally get in a cat fight and all start pulling out the automatics and letting the shells hit the ground. Its usually around lunch time must have something to do with a sugar deficiency. But again no expert.

[stragan]

But everyone having a gun wouldn't have prevented a shooting. Dude was going to kill people regardless of whether or not they were armed. The only thing everyone having guns would have ensured was that there would have been more gunshot victims.

That or it would have been an escalation. Everyone has guns, so now what? Build a bomb! Their guns can't prevent that. Now VTech has a crater where one of the buildings used to be and everyone is scrambling to understand how the guy got his hands on fertilizer.

Or we can just accept that while the tragedy seemed absolutely preventable in hindsight, it wasn't. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindsight_bias) Giving irresponsible kids some guns, amending the constitution, or putting a policeman on every corner aren't the answers.

yea dude was gonna kill, but might've killed less people if someone shot him earlier. so no, "The only thing everyone having guns would have ensured was that there would have been more gunshot victims." i have to disagree with that

and yea, did you know its possible to build a bomb out of simple tools like batteries and fertilizer? and those kill a lot more people than guns do in one setting. maybe batteries and fertilizers should be banned on the campus

oh wait - crazy people are gonna bring bombs to the campus anyway

anyway what has amending the constitution got to do with this? im talking about college campuses, which are privately owned

[vineris]

and i dont hear about college students slitting at eachother in drunk parties or frat houses so i doubt that guns will increase violence
as said, only the crazy will be crazy, no matter what weapons they have


I know a guy who stabbed himself in the leg while playing with his knife. Also a guy who hurt himself while stuffing a beer bottle into his pants pocket. Turns out that beer bottles can break if you do that and glass is sharp. I don't know anyone who actually stabbed anyone else accidentally but in general people stand away if you are waving a knife around. This does not help much if you are waving a gun around.

You don't hear about every dumbass thing that happens on campus but my God dumbass things do happen.



that said, alot of college kids get drunk and drive. should we ban cars on the campus too and make them all use public transit?

YES.

[Demo]

Second thought: Should guns be allowed on planes. I mean every one wants to feel safer right?

[stragan]

Second thought: Should guns be allowed on planes. I mean every one wants to feel safer right?

arent the staff often trained and armed these days?
i think it would be better if more people had guns, because then most would think twice about shooting before they start the domino effect

not sure what terrorists would do though

[Demo]

arent the staff often trained and armed these days?
i think it would be better if more people had guns, because then most would think twice about shooting before they start the domino effect


To my knowledge there's usually one maybe 2 flight marshals hidden on each flight, I think they are allowed to have a concealed hand gun i might be wrong, I'm kind of thinking it might be that they can only have a tazer.

I wont address the second half of your post, the logic there....ughhh..

Speaking of taser I wish life guards would carry tasers Id really feel much safer. (ok thats a lie ..I used to be a competative swimmer so I feel fine with out a life guard..but the other people they would feel better.)

[Falchion]

I'm all for more guns for more people. That being said, poor impulse control abounds with the sub-30 age groups. Hell, poor impulse control abounds above that. Giving someone access to a bangstick may exacerbate that problem. Or it might not. The question really is, what sort of state of fear do you want to live in? That there's a psycho with a gun out there? Or that someone close by is somehow CCing a Desert Eagle?

[erinc]

and yea, did you know its possible to build a bomb out of simple tools like batteries and fertilizer? and those kill a lot more people than guns do in one setting.


Where I live you can't buy the amount of fertilizer necessary to build a bomb unless you have a legit reason, like you're a licensed lawn care company. It's really not as easy to do as it seems on paper, which is probably why there aren't more fertilizer fueled bombs in the world. That's sort of beside the point, but there you go.

[Meloncov]

i think it should be allowed because laws only affect the law-abiding. that means school shooters are gonna bring guns anyway.

False dichotomy. There isn't one class of people who would never consider breaking a law under any circumstances and another that pays no attention to the law. Someone who has never broken a law before can still get angry or scared and strike with the most effective weapon they have on hand at the time. If they're unarmed, that means assault. If they're armed, it's murder. Likewise, even the most hardened criminal isn't going to break the law when the risk is high and the rewards low.

[TASmith]

Yes, and there's only one way to protect yourself on a plane - with an assault rifle capable of punching holes all through the plane's hull, rapidly depressurizing the interior.

Better if everyone has one, so at least we know we're dead before the whole thing smacks the ocean.

Guns on School campuses? Let's reframe the question to something more responsible. We all know there has been a dramatic increase in gun violence on school campuses, mostly in relation to a rise in autism/social dysfunction. The most responsible way to look at this problem is to ask, how could we prevent or at least limit the extent of these tragedies?

Let's look at some of the recent gunmen who've wrought havoc in college campuses:

Matti Juhani Saari: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kauhajoki_school_shooting

Seung-Hui Cho: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_massacre

Kimveer Gill: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimveer_Gill

Robert Flores: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/30/national/main527553.shtml

Peter Odighizuwa: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Odighizuwa

Frederick Martin Davidson: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego_State_University_shooting

Gang Lu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_Lu

Charles Whitman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman

Now let's look at Jared Lee Loughner: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Lee_Loughner
Here's a known killer who didn't attack anyone on campus, because his university took enough steps to kick him out of school and off campus.

It appears to me, these aren't hardened criminals, they're all lunatics, not in their right minds, and since most of them fight to the death or commit suicide, they're not deterred by armed resistance. So, the best way to keep students safe and minimize tragedy, is for campus security and school admissions to evaluate risk based on student's medical and criminal records, and then to ban weapons on campus. Afterall, if you find a concealed weapon in a dormroom, you don't have to wait for the student to use it. You can just take it, and expell the student. And then, when campus security next sees the student, they can remove him from campus.

It's a question of campus policy and enforcement of safety measures. There will still be freak occurances, like this one, involving Stephen P. Kazmierczak: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_P._Kazmierczak#Perpetrator

But, I don't see any other way to reduce campus violence. I don't think leaving it to students and professors to arm themselves is the key. I mean, just look at some of the crime statistics in the old West, when everyone had guns. Is that what we want to return to?

[stragan]

False dichotomy. There isn't one class of people who would never consider breaking a law under any circumstances and another that pays no attention to the law. Someone who has never broken a law before can still get angry or scared and strike with the most effective weapon they have on hand at the time. If they're unarmed, that means assault. If they're armed, it's murder. Likewise, even the most hardened criminal isn't going to break the law when the risk is high and the rewards low.

more people with guns mean that the hardened criminals will see that there is too much risk and rather not shoot

that being said, what about crazy kids who dont weigh out the risk and reward? they just go shooting because they want to
they better be shot dead before they kill more people

[stragan]

Let's look at some of the recent gunmen who've wrought havoc in America:

Seung-Hui Cho: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_massacre

Kimveer Gill: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimveer_Gill

Robert Flores: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/30/national/main527553.shtml

Peter Odighizuwa: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Odighizuwa

Now let's look at Jared Lee Loughner: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Lee_Loughner

Frederick Martin Davidson: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego_State_University_shooting

Gang Lu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_Lu

Charles Whitman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman

Here's a known killer who didn't attack anyone on campus, because his university took enough steps to kick him out of school and off campus.

It appears to me, the best way to keep students safe and minimize tragedy, is for campus security and school admissions to evaluate risk based on student's medical and criminal records, and then to ban weapons on campus. Afterall, if you find a concealed weapon in a dormroom, you don't have to wait for the student to use it. You can just take it, and expell the student. And then, when campus security next sees the student, they can remove him from campus.

i like that response

now, what about people who's just having it for self protection? and i hope no one's gonna bring that "the attacker is going to take the gun from you and you will lose anyway" response because its actually not that easy to take a gun from someone, especially when you dont know that they have it

arent tazers and pepper sprays allowed on campuses btw

[TASmith]

I don't see the right of people to bear arms for self-protection on college campuses. Sorry. It's private property, so the owners call the shots - literally.

Here's a much longer list of school shootings, separated by type of school. Colleges come second in the list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school-related_attacks

[s.ketch]

Colleges/Universities aren't all private.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_state_universities

[stragan]

not asking if government should make the schools allow guns on campus
i am asking which you think is better: gun or not on a campus, private, pubic, state, etc

[Meloncov]

more people with guns mean that the hardened criminals will see that there is too much risk and rather not shoot


No one in a calm enough state of mind to weigh risk and reward is going to shoot someone in front of witnesses. Whether they are armed or simply capable of calling the cops is irrelevant (contacting law enforcement is probably the bigger threat to the criminal. Untrained civilians are stunningly poor shots in an actual combat situation.).

If a gang decides that they want to take someone out, carry laws aren't going to stop them. On the other hand, permissive carry laws aren't gonna save the victim. The one thing that changes is that they're unlikely to be carrying around a gun with no reason (keep in mind that all but the smallest concealed weapons can be spotted by those who know what to look for if they're being stored in a reasonably accessible place), which means that if they get mad or scared there's less likely to be shooting.


that being said, what about crazy kids who dont weigh out the risk and reward? they just go shooting because they want to
they better be shot dead before they kill more people

Carry laws aren't going to affect them (ownership laws might, as crazy kids generally don't have the connections to get a gun illegally, but that's another debate). On the other hand, more people with guns isn't going to help. As someone pointed out earlier, it's far harder to identify who the killer is when many people have guns.

An armed killer running through an unarmed crowd is very bad, but an armed crowd firing inaccurately at whoever they, likely wrongfully, suspect is the attacker is worse.

[JFierce]

This topic.... this topic..... ....


I like what someone above said about someone being angered, with no weapon its assault with a weapon its murder. That would happen. A lot. Far more than any reason of "self defense" on the minor chance that someone disturbed would pull out a gun (even though as someone else said not like others would calmly pull the safety off take careful aim and shoot. What if they miss, what if they interpret someone who has a gun pointed as a threat and fire on someone innocent the "what if's" are infinite). There are people all over with different levels of mental issues. Happy go lucky John on Campus over there could have had the worst day of his life. Someone does something ridiculous to anger him even further. He results to irrational thinking and has a weapon at hand. Bad things happen.


The entire idea is silly, I know debating about it is fun. But cmon...... cmon....

[blogmatix]

as someone else said, most people probably wouldnt just start shooting at once due to the shock

They would start shooting at once BECAUSE of the shock.


or the shooter wouldn't shoot in the first place. kind of like how many countries can shoot nuclear bombs at eachother but no one is doing so, because if one sets off, then the rest will all set off to cause a massive shitstorm

School shooters typically commit suicide. They are not scared to die. They WANT to die, taking as many people as possible with them. A campus full of guns is a school shooter's paradise.

[TASmith]

Stragan, it's not just a question of "what's better". It's a public policy question, so the framework is, what can practically be done about it, through laws and measures. There's no solution without government.

True, universities are run by the state, and that's a neat little philosophical question, if they should be run differently since tax dollars go into them. For me, I feel they should be run as private property in terms of controlling public safety, with Deans acting just as they would in a private college. I assume that's how it works.

[erinc]

now, what about people who's just having it for self protection?

arent tazers and pepper sprays allowed on campuses btw

Here's the problem with your comparison. Pepper spray and tazers are protective by nature. They're totally non-lethal, barring a few outliers. They are used to subdue or disable someone just long enough to allow escape. Guns are lethal. You're trying to compare apples to oranges. Doesn't work.

[manlybrian]

And honestly, in the face of danger, how many people are calm enough to get the damn boomstick out, disable safety, load it, aim accurately, then fire?

After he got his concealed weapons permit, my "friend" started carrying his gun around with the clip loaded and a bullet in the chamber. He said it was okay because it had a 'really good safety'. I kind of stopped hanging out with him after that. :nohope:

[Falchion]

Something that's been bugging me: Tasers are not non-lethal. They are not less-than-lethal. They are less-lethal. If you poke someone with a live taser just right in, well, a particular point, you can induce cardiac arrest quickly and efficiently. Does the taser incapacitate? Certainly. But it possesses just as great if not greater ability to kill.

Remember: Very few "non-lethal" weapons follow what's written on the label.

[erinc]

Something that's been bugging me: Tasers are not non-lethal. They are not less-than-lethal. They are less-lethal. If you poke someone with a live taser just right in, well, a particular point, you can induce cardiac arrest quickly and efficiently. Does the taser incapacitate? Certainly. But it possesses just as great if not greater ability to kill.

Remember: Very few "non-lethal" weapons follow what's written on the label.

Sorry for the ambiguity. I should've clarified that where I live, they are classified as "non-lethal." The only way someone can experience cardiac arrest when being tasered is if they have a pre-existing medical condition or have taken certain drugs (like stimulants) shortly prior to being tasered -- both of which increase your likelihood of a cardiac problem without the added voltage. It has nothing to do with where on the body someone is tasered. I would be inclined to believe children would be more likely to die, but I'm not sure who would taser a child.

To be much less ambiguous, the risk of death by taser is estimated to be between 1 in 50,000 and 1 in 100,000, or roughly equivalent to recreational swimming and running.

Edit: By way of comparison, the risk of death by gunshot wound runs more in the 1 in 100 to 85 in 100 range, depending on the caliber, where you're shot, and how quickly you receive medical treatment.

[Phloof]

I think it's very easy to say that only crazy people go on shooting sprees and I can understand why, but grouping people into the categories of "law-abiding" and "crazies" is cutting it a bit fine.

It's like saying that everyone who isn't completely crazy is a responsible and upstanding citizen who at no point in their lives ever got even a little bit out of control.

I do understand that it would be good to have something to protect yourself in extreme circumstances such as rape etc. but if everyone can carry a gun, the enormity of owning one yourself is lost.

And to quote the uncle of a certain comic book hero, with great power comes great responsibility...

[BlightedArt]

Accidents can still happen if you're carrying a gun with the safety on... Once the guns in someone's hand, it has a chance to go off, plain and simple.

Stopping people getting shot by increasing the incentive to put more guns into more hands will backfire, no pun intended...

Edit: To put it another way, if you increase the availability of something, you'll increase the usage of it...

[Randis]

- so instead of preventing Kids from bringing guns to school we just give them all a gun, right.

- sane kids who bring guns to school, right.

- kids would never pull a gun in a school-fight, because they are so responsible, right.

- Killing a crazy kid or killing for protection in general is ok, right.

- If some criminals can illegally carry a weapon, we all should have one too, right.

- everyone should be able to carry all sorts of weapons because the human history shows that we have always only used them with great responsibility, right.

[~KJK~]

Id carry this wherever id go if it was legal
http://www.mostinterestingfacts.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/3.Morning-star.jpg

[~KJK~]

Oh and that Matti Saari, the finnish school shooter lunatic whatever, was from my town, his first target was our high school but he didnt go for that afterall @_@

[stragan]

- so instead of preventing Kids from bringing guns to school we just give them all a gun, right.

- everyone should be able to carry all sorts of weapons because the human history shows that we have always only used them with great responsibility, right.

allowing gun =/= giving them all a gun
guns are legal but i dont see everyone touting a gun so why should it be different in college
it takes a lot to train for a gun, register, etc etc

just because of some irresponsible few will mess up doesnt mean we keep everyone else from having it

remember that long time ago even fifteen year olds were allowed to keep guns. their job was to hunt. :p

[Randis]

allowing gun =/= giving them all a gun
guns are legal but i dont see everyone touting a gun so why should it be different in college
it takes a lot to train for a gun, register, etc etc

just because of some irresponsible few will mess up doesnt mean we keep everyone else from having it

remember that long time ago even fifteen year olds were allowed to keep guns. their job was to hunt. :p

- who exactly would be the judge if a kid is a responsible one or not until it maybe to late?

- What reason might there be for a kid needing to carry a gun to school?

Ridiculous arguments!

If school-grounds were that dangerous that kids would see need to arm themselves with guns, allowing them to carry those would be the least intelligent solution a healthy human mind would come up with.

I find it rather concerning that despite obvious measures to reduce school violence you actually suggest letting kids posses guns and be their own judge.

Your examples are farfetched at best.

People who make use of firearms on the country sides strictly for hunting is NOT the same as Kids wearing weapons to school or on the street for 'protection' and intimidation.

Woman having some pepper spray in their bag to fight off a potential offender is NOT the same as wielding lethal fire arms, killing in order to protect.

If you feel the need for protection, take martial art lessons or obtain a non lethal weapon and stay out of trouble just like the majority of the world population.

If you love shooting, join the army.



guns are legal but i dont see everyone touting a gun

That should give you to think.

[Partisan]

Stragan why are you here ? ...you started this post about " should weapons be allowed on college campuses" and the one about the military drafting people ....whats the point .... do you have a thing for weapons ? somewhat bored ? What is it with you ?

[stragan]

Stragan why are you here ? ...you started this post about " should weapons be allowed on college campuses" and the one about the military drafting people ....whats the point .... do you have a thing for weapons ? somewhat bored ? What is it with you ?

i want to see what people say

[Black Spot]

Id carry this wherever id go if it was legal
http://www.mostinterestingfacts.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/3.Morning-star.jpg

I prefer a sledgehammer - so much fun. Squish.

[Wingal]

I havent read all of the posts yet but down here they are already trying to make it legal (Texas >.>) (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/20/texas-guns-campus-colleges_n_825718.html) and personally I dont like it. If it eventually passes it wouldn't make me feel any safer on campus actually i would feel less safe, and might consider getting one myself. I just dont think its necessary; we hardly ever have school shootings plus we have campus police etc. Also students aren't always in their right mind with drugs,alcohol, stress, and lack of sleep, taking there toll. I think guns in student hands would lead to more campus deaths whether it be shootings or suicides. If there is really a problem on campus why not just get more campus security or let professors carry guns.

[stragan]

I havent read all of the posts yet but down here they are already trying to make it legal (Texas >.>) (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/20/texas-guns-campus-colleges_n_825718.html) and personally I dont like it. If it eventually passes it wouldn't make me feel any safer on campus actually i would feel less safe, and might consider getting one myself. I just dont think its necessary; we hardly ever have school shootings plus we have campus police etc. Also students aren't always in their right mind with drugs,alcohol, stress, and lack of sleep, taking there toll. I think guns in student hands would lead to more campus deaths whether it be shootings or suicides. If there is really a problem on campus why not just get more campus security or let professors carry guns.

its up to the schools to decide if they should ban guns off the campus
but i think some schools should allow it if they want to

professors carrying guns = allowing guns on campus
allowing guns on campus =/= no regulation or rules about the guns
carrying firearms require a permit anyway so its not like a bunch of frat kids who listen to the school's rule in the first place would suddenly just start bringing guns if they didnt have a permit

and how much security can a school afford? lets say there's a poor college in a poor area with high rate of crime. theyre so poor they cant afford to have a cop at most corners. then if a girl or a gay gets attacked by someone or even a small gang of kids, what do they do? call 911 and wait when every second makes a difference?

speaking of being attacked, its not just the crazy mass-shooters who harm people on the campus. its the armed robbers and gangs around the schools that students should have the right to defend themselves against if they want to

..... i was raised in texas

[Hyskoa]

I vote yes, but only because there's too many of them anyway.

[stragan]

I vote yes, but only because there's too many of them anyway.

too many people with guns?
yea i heard about half of the US population has guns but because people are careful with it, there are less accidents with guns than swimming pool deaths
btw death by gun =/= accident with gun
and the people who do die from guns are often criminals themselves who used them in an unregulated, thug culture setting

i see guns sort of like cars. sure ok guns are made to kill, cars are made to be safe and transport people. but more people are careful with guns than with their cars.
just because someone has a car doesnt mean they will crash
cars kill more people than guns do (even though there are more car users than gun owners, percentage-wise....)
and more people die in swimming pools

if guns were regulated, i think it would be fine

[Hyskoa]

too many people with guns?

Nah, too many schoolchildren :)

[stragan]

Nah, too many schoolchildren :)

that's like abortion, except on live walking children

[Hyskoa]

that's like abortion, except on live walking children

ok... ?

[Partisan]

http://www.scienceblogs.de/astrodicticum-simplex/2010/08/15/picard-facepalm.jpg

[tobbA]

laws only affect the law-abiding

Isn't the whole point of laws not to affect the law abiding?

[.empyrean.]

Uhm, what about completely banning guns and lethal weapons for normal citizens like in most countries of the world? Put aside your America-my-homecountry-I-have-to-haz-a-gun-because-I-have-to-protect-me-from-bad-people-or-people-with-guns behaviour and think about it. Where does gun violence often happen? In America (as one of the developed countries). Where doesn't it happen? Europe for example.
This may seem pragmatic or overly not very striking, but I really, really don't get the whole American affection to guns.

[Choob]

I laughed at this thread when I saw it, can't take it seriously. Mind you, here in Scotland, the only people with guns are farmers with shotguns. Out of all of America's eccentricities, guns are the one I just can't understand. So you're scared of people having guns? Well, don't ban them, make them legal for EVERYONE, because then you'll be fine.

It makes no sense, none at all. On the topic of weapon for choice though, I choose this. Come at me, Flake.

http://cdn.downloads.palm.com/public/1633/en/images/3/L/lightsaber_2010-09-02_003250.png

[s.ketch]

Uhm, what about completely banning guns and lethal weapons for normal citizens like in most countries of the world? Put aside your America-my-homecountry-I-have-to-haz-a-gun-because-I-have-to-protect-me-from-bad-people-or-people-with-guns behaviour and think about it.

We need guns to protect us from all the bad straw men.

[Flake]

On the topic of weapon for choice though, I choose this. Come at me, Flake.

http://cdn.downloads.palm.com/public/1633/en/images/3/L/lightsaber_2010-09-02_003250.png

Slightly off topic, but I've never really been able to decide what colour I'd want.
I'm fairly sure I'm not inherently evil but the red ones do look kinda cool..

[Partisan]

Slightly off topic, but I've never really been able to decide what colour I'd want.
I'm fairly sure I'm not inherently evil but the red ones do look kinda cool..

mine would be rainbow-coloured switching the colour every 0.05 seconds ^^

[Randis]

a lego lightsaber?

[Lady Medusa]

Really?
Allowing everyone to have guns (Spechally conflicted angsty teenagers) would probably lead to mass paranoia and shooting on a much more regular basis.

God. I can just picture it.
"Stephany, are you sleeping with my crush?"
"No"
"You lying bithch. I hate you!" BANG.

[Barefoot]

I propose that guns be outlawed, but the carrying of a sword be legalised.
yeah! We should go back to the old days of duels.

I know that if you told america that they aren't allowed guns any more then there would be a revolt or some shit, but personally, I think a collage / university campus is not a place for guns, it is a place for learning.
In England, guns are illeagal (ok, apart from farmers and a few other exceptions that I cant recall) and I think that is the best way to do things, its simple, no guns = no gun crime. (I don't mean: not allowed guns = no gun crime, that is a different statement)

Just so that you know, I'm not against guns in general, they have their merits and their down sides, I would love to go to america one day and go to a shooting range or summat, but I wouldn't want to live somewhere where the likelyhood is that the person mugging you has a gun.

[Conniekat8]

not fair what about slowpokes like me with one arm

Crossbow! A vial of poison, personal bodyguard?


"should guns be banned on campuses"
I thought most of of the people who create trouble with guns aren't those who have them legally to start with?

[Jie Kageshinzo]

I personally believe every campus argument should be settled via a Pokemon duel.

[vineris]

Just so that you know, I'm not against guns in general, they have their merits and their down sides, I would love to go to america one day and go to a shooting range or summat, but I wouldn't want to live somewhere where the likelyhood is that the person mugging you has a gun.

Come to Canada. It's like America but we aren't nearly as afraid that someone will shoot us.

[Partisan]

If you fuys all like to have guns and shooting why not join the military...heard somewhere that the US military is drafting ...:sungod: