Team Chow III - Nameless Operatives

[Ephelea]

Starting the madness.
I chose the : Empress, and Princess of Swords

So far, I'm looking for reference and inspiration. :D

[Ephelea]

So for the empress, I at first had the idea of a very Josephine like Empress, with the crown of stars. While I want to keep the crown of stars, I'm not sure I want such a structured woman.

I gathered a large collection of 'Empresses' and decided to look at their traits. They all look extremely regal, strong facial features.

Curly, any ideas on what type of theme you'd like to work together for?

[Tagtraum]

Hi there!
I already wrote you a PM, Ephelea, but since I can't find it in my folder (sorry^^'' I'm new to the forum) I thought you might have not got it ... well, if you did ... I don't want to appear pushy or anything.
Anyway, I wanted to ask if I can join your group. I'm learning quickly (I think), but I only have some basic skills. It would be great if you admitted me :)

Greetings^^

[Tagtraum]

I really like the third picture on top. I think it's Empress Sisi - she has much softer features than on the other paintings, makes her look kinda vulnerable and not really like a strong empress.

As for me, I'd like to take the magician and the princess of wands.

Edit: I have to go now, so maybe you can enter them all, before somebody else takes them? That would be nice ...

[Ephelea]

Tag,

In regards to your request - the "Princess of Wands" has already been slotted, I think, until they get more people on the different lower arcana. First come, first served. The pickings are getting slim, the longer people wait. I'll ask, but I can't guarantee Dae won't ask you to choose another.

Curly,

Pick soon please. :( I don't want you to get stuck with something you don't want to do.

[curly]

I'd like to take the Fool and Two of Wands

[curly]

Tagtraum, welcome to the team! :) I'll try to make a banner for us today. Can you give me something to start with - maybe your photos or some image that represent you. Our team name wakes in me strong associations with secret agents or ninjas, stuff like this :) Can do something funny

[Tagtraum]

Ephelea,
Thanks a lot! I've really been in a hurry yesterday ... Well, I guess I'll wait what happens. Aren't there 4 slots for each card? There are actually so many interesting ones that it wouldn't bother me much to take another one.

curly,
hi! Well ... agents are a good idea, like it. I'm doing martial arts, if that helps in any way. Sadly my parents don't allow me to put photos of myself in the internet :( Other images ... I'll think about it.
But wouldn't one agent / ninja dressed in black be enough for the banner? (btw, ninjas actually used to be dressed in dark grey, because it hides better in the shadows or something, at least that's what my ninjutsu teacher said)

[Ephelea]

So, what do you two have in mind? We have to find something to tie all our cards together: themes or colors/theme..

I was thinking, and I came up with a few ideas:
Native American themed cards,
Indian (as in, India) themed cards,
or perhaps Mafia/Gang related themed cards.

Any ideas, or dislikes?

[Tagtraum]

Mhh, the problem with Indian or Native American themed cards is that we can't use all those pretty dresses for the princesses and the empress^^
By the way, curly needs another card, because the Fool is not available anymore :(

We have so far:
- the Magician
- the Empress
- the Princess of Swords
- the Two of Wands
- the Princess of Wands

Hmm ... I always thought it would be cool to do something that's based on Russian stuff, if that's also interesting for you. Could search for some pictures of what I mean, if you want.

The princesses should bear resemblance to each other. I looked them up on one of the links that were given:


Page of Wands
This is a kid that never stays still, runs all over the place, always wants to go outside and play, is always getting into strange places, climbing trees, wanting to go on trips. He's never home for dinner on time. Personality wise, however, he is usually a delightful child, happy, fun-loving, charismatic. He loves being the center of attention and the leader; however, and you might have to watch that he doesn't bully other kids.

Page of Swords
You can't shut up this kid. "Why? Why? Why?" he/she's always asking. And even more alarming, anything they hear, they'll repeat, just blurt it out in front of people. They'll go up to Aunt Hazel and say, "Are you carrying a baby? Mommy says it looks like you are...." On the positive side, this kid could be quite a brain, good at puzzles, quick to learn. And they already know how to use the computer better than you do. Likeable, but also the most aggravating of kids because whatever you tell them to do, they'll argue about it. You have to watch that they don't become "know-it-alls" or tattletales.

Maybe they should look like sisters or something.

What kind of style should we use? 2D or something realistic?
Ah, and here are a few pictures of princesses I found:

[Ephelea]

The cards deal with different elements, the "Swords" is "Air/Thought"
A russian theme is interesting. However, which era? Around the time of "Tsar/Czar Nicholas II" and his ill fated family? earlier?

[Tagtraum]

The cards deal with different elements, the "Swords" is "Air/Thought"
A russian theme is interesting. However, which era? Around the time of "Tsar/Czar Nicholas II" and his ill fated family? earlier?

Well ... I thought the princesses could have some similarities, so that it's clear they somewhat belong together. The same clothing style, but different colors, the same landscape, but a different season ... something along those lines.

Actually I haven't thought about the time frame yet. I think Nicholas II might be a bit late, that's already within the Industrialisation. I don't know it for sure, but I think the stuff they wore there is mostly traditional anyway. I'll look it up (on wikipedia :rolleyes: ) ...

Edit: so here are some inspirations. I think the time around Catherine the Great may be good, 17th century.
Here's a page with Russian clothing: http://www.rusclothing.com

[Ephelea]

I'm not extremely fond of Catherine, only because she tends to often be shown as an elder empress, and less of her younger self. I want to be able to give the impression that the Empress, while strong - is still youthful enough to give life.

I propose, 1800-1900's - Maria Feodorovna was the Queen/Empress. Mother of Nicholas II.

And while, the dresses are lovely, do Russian Princesses wear them?

[Tagtraum]

Wow, that's a beautiful picture :)

Well, you don't have to make the empress look like Catherine, just because we set the time frame during her reign^^ A century later is also fine - I don't think the clothing changed that much, at least not ceremony clothing or dresses of princesses.

I read somewhere that Russia around that time was strongly influenced by Germany, so the nobility wore nearly the same stuff as their European equivalents, maybe with some touch of those folk dresses I posted above.
The latter ones were worn until Peter the Great or around 1900 on masked balls.

Edit: (somehow I edit nearly every post Ô_o) Well, that is except for those kokoshniks, a head-dress worn by woman and girls. The woman above and Catherine the Great both wear it.

[Ephelea]

Germany's influence is mainly because of the close relationship the nobility had. It's noted that until Maria, most consorts of the Kings/Emperors of Russia came from Germany and it's surrounding area.

And no, you are correct. She doesn't have to look the same. But I also just like Maria's crowns more. :P

[Tagtraum]

Germany's influence is mainly because of the close relationship the nobility had. It's noted that until Maria, most consorts of the Kings/Emperors of Russia came from Germany and it's surrounding area.

And no, you are correct. She doesn't have to look the same. But I also just like Maria's crowns more. :P

Mh, but I think close relationships among the nobility are strongly influencing the fashion, aren't they?
Anyway, doesn't really matter. There was some nice movie on TV last year about War and Peace ... that's around 1800, so the dresses they wear there (or in other movies about that book) might be a good reference.

[Ephelea]

I'll keep googling.
Hopefully, Curly logs on and checks this out soon >_>..so she can input her say.

[Tagtraum]

Okay. It's already 1 AM here so I don't know how long I can stay awake ... Will search for some other stuff, though.
For the magician I could imagine something like the evil Koshchei or, something more friendly, Father Frost.

[Ephelea]

So, I was reading! And Queens/Empresses got to wear gold gowns or silver gowns/embroidered or gowns made with gold/silver material, however Grand Duchesses/Princesses got to wear Silver, but only if the Queen wasn't or she was wearing gold.

Also, I suppose the Princesses could be wearing the the "kaftan" type dresses, but I'm more than sure that they'd be well made and hand embroidered. And probably also have jewels :P But still no pictures to say that they did (wish they did less revolutionizing and more cataloging in Russia. :P) I also watched Anastasia, because I'm rather fond of the movie. >_>.. But apparently, it's far fetched. And, women who were unmarried also apparently covered their shoulders, while married women didn't.

Btw: Did you consider that the Magician could be Rasputin if we went with Nicholas II And the "Princesses" could be two of his four daughters? Just another idea. Since we have yet to get anything concrete.

Curly, any comments, thoughts, ideas?

[Tagtraum]

That's really interesting ... May I ask where you did your research?
You're right about the kaftan ... I just found this explanation about the court dresses:


The first change to this new dress happened in the 1840s, when the velvet overdress (sarafan) and silk under dress (caftan) were adapted to fit contemporary corseted fashions. The costume became three separate pieces, rather than two; an embroidered white silk underskirt, over which was placed a waist-hung train, and a corseted bodice which incorporated the long muscovite sleeves and an embroidered white silk "corsage." The illusion of the assembled tripartite gown was similar in effect to that of a robe worn over an under dress.

Also required to be worn was the Kokoshnik, a diadem-like headdress. For women of the Imperial family these were originally jewel-studded velvet, with pearl-trimmed plain velvet for their attendants. Long, floor-length tulle veils were worn by married ladies.
http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/ctcostume.html

Yeah ... I also thought of Rasputin for the magician, but to be honest I feel a bit uncomfortable with the idea of using Tsar Nicholas' family for the cards, I don't exactly know why.

[Ephelea]

Different sites, one was a musuem tour through "Alexander's Palace" or something similar - one was an entire site of links about clothing and I focused on imperial/royal clothing, mainly just googled and read.

[curly]

Hi guys! Sorry for beeing late - this New Year rush caught me hard :D I've took knight of wands too.
I'm strongly against to wear them all at clothes from some period or country,though I really like the references you found. I've entered the contest because I wanted to develop more of my own style. And do not forget the mistical point of the tarot - simply standing princess is not good,you have to search for inner simbolism of the card, like what things she should posses,what she represents. I suggest to go with a designing a frame for every card. About the world I'd rather prefer something dark and mistical, with some artefacts and weird effects. Which can also suit our team name. I've got to make a tort for New Year Party. I'll try to be more involved - the party is taking most of the efforts now :D Happy New Year

[Ephelea]

Curly,
While i agree that the cards should hold a 'mystical' portion, or symbolism - it doesn't make it impossible by choosing a theme. I planned on adding a pomegranate, swans, wheat fields..etc. All parts of symbolism. And while the "Russian" part may seem imposing, it also doesn't cut out the ability to portray your own style. We need to be able to point out why our cards work together in a pack. They have to have something that makes them work together.

So, if we scrapped the "Russian" theme - what would we do to make our cards work together? We're cutting it close to the 'deadline' so the speak and we need to get our ideas in the right place.

[Tagtraum]

I agree with Ephelea ... And we don't have to stick to the Russian theme *that* close anyway, just enough to make it noticeable.
By the way, I'm not sure about the symbolism. On wikipedia it says that the cards were originally not mystical, so I guess there was no symbolism either. Which makes me think that it is not necessary for the set, but optional.
(Not saying I'm against it, just mentioning)
The knight and the magician can be drawn rather freely anyway. Uhm ... an idea that just came to me (maybe you like it, that's up to you):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossacks
Maybe that would be a start for the knight, if you agree with the Russian theme. I think your own style doesn't depend on what you draw, but how :)

[Ephelea]

I agree with Ephelea ... And we don't have to stick to the Russian theme *that* close anyway, just enough to make it noticeable.
By the way, I'm not sure about the symbolism. On wikipedia it says that the cards were originally not mystical, so I guess there was no symbolism either. Which makes me think that it is not necessary for the set, but optional.
(Not saying I'm against it, just mentioning)
The knight and the magician can be drawn rather freely anyway. Uhm ... an idea that just came to me (maybe you like it, that's up to you):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossacks
Maybe that would be a start for the knight, if you agree with the Russian theme. I think your own style doesn't depend on what you draw, but how :)

You do realize if you cut out the symbolism, you simply have a person standing there? I wouldn't take Wiki without having looked at other sources as well.
And, regardless of what the cards were once - how do you look at a tarot card, if not for symbolism and mysticism? They may not be 'magical' per say, but people hold a lot of feeling towards what the cards may mean - what the symbolism of a dress of pomegranates and a field of wheat, a crown of stars may mean, and just like the Bible (which to some people is simply a book,) holds symbolism, and in a way 'religious mysticism.' If you take out these pieces, the symbolism, you'll cut yourself short in the character concept areas.

[Tagtraum]

You do realize if you cut out the symbolism, you simply have a person standing there? I wouldn't take Wiki without having looked at other sources as well.
And, regardless of what the cards were once - how do you look at a tarot card, if not for symbolism and mysticism? They may not be 'magical' per say, but people hold a lot of feeling towards what the cards may mean - what the symbolism of a dress of pomegranates and a field of wheat, a crown of stars may mean, and just like the Bible (which to some people is simply a book,) holds symbolism, and in a way 'religious mysticism.' If you take out these pieces, the symbolism, you'll cut yourself short in the character concept areas.

Well, I did look it up on other pages, with the same result: They were playing cards from France, nothing more, until Antoine Court de Gébelin saw them in Paris, believing they were from Egypt origin and contained a deeper symbolism that encoded ancient wisdom.
As I understood it, the cards already contained those attributes like pomegranates and stuff, but they were not meant as symbols / with a deeper meaning, the cards were just designed that way. We can add them, of course, but I wouldn't stick too close to them, because at least some ones are very limiting.

As for only having a person standing there if we cut out the symbolism ... Well, normal playing cards don't have those symbols either and if you look for different tarot sets there are also some that don't include them.

By the way, the frame we should use for the cards is rather strange, don't you think?

[curly]

Hi,guys! I can agree with you that we should find something in common for all the cards. But I don't like the russian direction,sorry. Being russian makes me feel a strong associations with all this stuff. In last years Russia and Ukraine and all that countries that once were USSR started digging again for their historic part, and started to force it on people in kinda violent way. And I feel pretty much disgusted by their policy and can't look on these things in objective way.
You picked here women stuff,but do you realize how russian "knight" will look.
Something like this
http://shkolazhizni.ru/img/content/i45/45745.jpg
No way! I would rather go paint Tom and Jerry.
Probably you wouldn't understand my feelings but I'd rather go with england of 15/16 century. Or celtics or france - something interesting and standing out.
Thought choosing country still seems not that necessary to me. We can choose world of our own and describe it,including it's style - why can't we go this way.
We can go steampunk, fantasy, goth and horror or maybe our imagination can bring us to another place?
Btw - what the size of the cards? Or it's up to us?
Here - my not very successful banner for the team >_<
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/365/namelessoperatives.jpg

[Tagtraum]

Mhh ... when you feel uncomfortable with it, we chose something else, of course.
(Regarding the knight - as I posted before, you could make him look more like a cossack, theoretically)

The size of the card should be 9cm x 15,5cm, I think it's in the thread where you can chose the cards. It's quite slender / high ... looks a bit strange to me, but maybe the want to add a card frame by themselves since the best ones will make it into a CA tarot deck.

Personally I think Russian is far more outstanding than something Celtic or French, because that's just been there too often, but if you're Russian you sense that quite differently.

A fantasy world ... well, maybe. On the one hand I'd be fine with it, since we could still draw those dresses, but how would we make them belong together then?

I really like the banner, by the way.

[curly]

I was forced to learn everything about those kosaks from the first Getman to the last,and I know that teachers twisted history and we never learnt about other countries. It's ridiculous. I can't stand the look of them - sorry guys.That's our difference in approach to the Russian - for me there were not other countries than Ukraine or Russia. And for you it is something exotic.
I was at another competition recently and there was very interesting idea. Every team was given a world legend - very simple (like our world was at the edge of total distraction and it's inhabitants were forced to live in the sky, and they had flying fishes) - this can give you a lot of freedom ,but we can narrow it even more - like people of some bird clan. Everybody's wearing feathers or birdslike helmets,you know. Or dresses with feathers. Or we can make them all cards of phoenix, or cards of a blackthorn (like thorns or flowers everywhere). You will add there russian wearing if you'd like and I'll go with my own ideas. What you think?
And thanx about the banner. ^_^ I've tried hard but it still lacks some meat. Gotto work more.

[Tagtraum]

Ohh :/ I'm sorry about that ... sounds horrible.

The idea is interesting. What would we take, then? I'm not sure whether living in the sky would work, since the cards are quite small and that seems like a task with much landscape in it to me. The bird-thing seem interesting. There are many different things you could do with that approach: the helmet for the knight, some feathers on the dresses and maybe a big bird skull on the magician's head and a feather coat.

I don't think the banner must be perfect, since we will vote solely for the cards (or won't we?)

[Ephelea]

The 9cm x 15cm is print size. I'd suggest working larger, as when you scale things down - it makes everything cleaner looking. Think in scale, I'm probably going to work 9 inches by 15 inches, because I know my computer can handle it. That may not work for you.

I'm fine with not using Russian, I'm rather fond of the bird idea. However, I think you could have said something earlier, Curly. But, thank you for speaking up now.

While we don't have the same drawing style, we still need our work to be unified. So, having some of our 'characters' wearing Russian clothing, and Curly's not - would separate our work entirely.

[Ephelea]

I'm gonna gather more material, more inspiration. I say go with the birds.
Posting some beginning work in the next few hours.
Any last comments? Arguments? other ideas?

[Tagtraum]

Okay, so since we all agree, let's do that. (I assume curly agrees too, because it was her idea :) )

I did some sketches twice the size - 18 x 31 (it is 15,5 and not 15, is it? I'll better check again, not that I'm doing something wrong ...)
I just don't get a satisfying pose for the magician, but I already found a first idea for the princess of wands. It's still quite Russian and without much bird-things, because I started sketching in the morning when I was waiting for replies^^' I've altered it a bit so that it's not too visible anymore. I think it might fit with curly's work, depending on her style. The kokoshnik kinda sucks, at least in the way it is now, maybe I'll leave it out completely.
Tell me what you think about it :) I think I'm getting better with colors gradually.

[Ephelea]

Hey Tag,

I would suggest using photo reference for your pose. And try to ensure your proportions are correct. Right now, your arms are a bit short, your torso/legs look compact. Perhaps lengthening them?

i also think it's funny we both went for darker hued skinned. posting mine momentarily. :)

[Tagtraum]

Thanks, but actually the arms and legs weren't meant to stay like that^^
I'm still not sure how I should put them so I just left it open. Thought she might stand on some kind of slope and uphold her dress with the right hand.

[Ephelea]

Here's my princess? lol. I can't decide. First draft

[Tagtraum]

I like the pose, it's ... well, something different. But I don't understand what's the dark thing on the right(?)

Uhh - I'll go off for now. Parents and stuff, already 2 AM here.

[Ephelea]

It's her hair. :) Night. I'll be here til prolly 1am Central if anyone logs on :o I've got to catch up after catching the flu this week. lol.

[Ephelea]

Empress? First draft

[Tagtraum]

Mh okay ... I think the hair should flow a bit more or something.
Nice empress^^ Btw: I just read that the goal is to illustrate a story or something that is linked to the card. Must have missed that, kind of.
On a related note, the color that belongs to the swords is actually blue and not yellow. (Didn't watch for that either ... the color of the wands is yellow, not red)


Though often used as a form of divination, we'll be approaching it from a strictly design perspective. Each card is meant to tell a very particular tale (though this tale often depends on the reader) and has many symbols and meanings attached to it. The goal will be to do each card as a character-based (this is still chow) illustration to illuminate the meaning of the card. However, the specific meaning and the symbols will be up to you. We will, however, be following mostly to the Rider-Waite deck, with the exception that we will be using Princess instead of Page.

[Ephelea]

think I'll be switching them, empress toucan and princess peacock or some other bird with blue :P

[Ephelea]

Here's my second draft, second pose and second look.

Any comments, critiques?

I decided to keep Toucan as princess and peacock as empress. We can do some changing as we see fit to the colors etc.

[Tagtraum]

Mh ... I like :) Don't have anything to criticize at the moment.

Will do some sketches for the magician soon. Hopefully.

[Ephelea]

third.

think her hand is too big -.o

[Ephelea]

Princess.

Anyone else got anything to share? -.o

[SMILEFACE]

WHAAA THE bird theme is HOT I REALLY LIKE THE peacock empress AN THE POSE IN THE Toucan IS WICKED Ephelea AN IM LIKE'N THE COLORS YA GOT GO'N SO FAR Tagtraum GOOD LUCK W/ THE CONTEST THIS IS GUNNA ROCK!!!

[Tagtraum]

WHAAA THE bird theme is HOT I REALLY LIKE THE peacock empress AN THE POSE IN THE Toucan IS WICKED Ephelea AN IM LIKE'N THE COLORS YA GOT GO'N SO FAR Tagtraum GOOD LUCK W/ THE CONTEST THIS IS GUNNA ROCK!!!

Thanks^^ Good luck to you too :) I just visited your team sketchbook and the sketches look great. Love the grinning king!

So, the princess developed a bit (need more feathers x_x'), but the magician has still no satisfying pose, maybe because I'm not sure how I want to depict him. A charlatan, a powerful mage ... uh.

The BG is nice, Ephelea. I think the feathers should maybe have another color, it doesn't seem to fit to the rest of the pic that well.
I figured that the princesses should have a scroll or a letter in their picture, that might be also important. And that they are (obviously) very young in appearance.

[curly]

I've missed that you've already added a second page..hhhhh Silly me! Nice progress here!
Ephelea, I really like the empress pose!Very nice ideas! But be careful with your colors and tones - for now your color balance is kinda off. Try to give them some colors of background and vise versa.
Tagtraum, your sketch seems to have a nice atmosphere and better color blending, but it's still to blurry to judge. Be careful not to cut her leg at cruel way :)
Here my rough knight of wands.
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/9533/49230565.jpg

[Ephelea]

working on it. :o Can't decide.. to make a feather brush, or to go with hair and cloth >_>.

[Ephelea]

Ephelea, I really like the empress pose!Very nice ideas! But be careful with your colors and tones - for now your color balance is kinda off. Try to give them some colors of background and vise versa.


Nice work, so far curly. Interesting composition, but the foremost leg looks like it's slightly tipping downwards, towards us - and isn't on a flat surface. Just doesn't seem to fit the perspective you have for the upper half of the image. Otherwise, good work. :)

I was hoping to mute the colors in the background, lighten them and make the empress really pop. Might not work. Any suggestions?

[Ephelea]

So here are three variations, any comments? I tried changing the color of the dress. I'm certainly not done, but it might help? Not sure.

[snootchy]

heya ladies, doing great really diggin the bird theme like granny commented above! Only comment or crit or whatever you want to call it, i'd say to keep it loose and fun in the beginning, mainly exploration at this point. Looking forward to how this awesome theme develops!!

[Ephelea]

the feather/hair situation continues to perplex me >_>...think I like the fabric though.

[B-Man]

Glad to see you working with some wild colors. Best of luck to you! Cheers!

[curly]

Thank you for pointing out about the legs - I've fixed it. You should work on your light shadow colors. Put some colors of the dress into background - like red into trees.
You should give more life to the grass under her feet

[Ephelea]

light shadow? Sorry >_< I don't understand.

[Ephelea]

it seems you're both on the page :P Any thoughts?

[curly]

Put highlights on her skin too. Add background color as reflex in the shadows - zspecialy on her skin.Add shadows - from her upper body on her skirt,from her head mask on her face and back,from her red skirt on yellow dress.There can't be white highlight on her stomach - if I understand the direction of light correctly

[Tagtraum]

Uhh ... I suppose as a beginner I'm no great help in that matter. I'm currently trying to give my princess some kind of shape, lol.
Maybe search for a reference and pick up the colors with a pipette (or however that thing is called in English) - that's what I'm doing *cough* (that be cheating :x ?)

She was quicker than me anyway :(

I like the knight of wands. And I like his wand^^

[Ephelea]

Oh, I understand now curly :) Here's my latest attempt, and I've just started adding more reflective color :D

Tag, try : COLOURLovers (http://www.colourlovers.com/) I got it from the CHOW culture, you should really take a few moments in your spare time to go through some of the awesome links

[Tagtraum]

Thanks, that's an interesting page^^
The idea to put the person's color in the background is great! Must keep that in mind ... The picture looks very harmonic.

So, I think that was it for me today. Tomorrow I'm gonna redo the underdress and will hopefully put on some decent embroidery and the still missing feathers - and look for the still somewhat screwed anatomy and shadows >_>
May stay online for a while, but I should really start learning - I'm gonna write my Abitur next week D:' Oh how I hate stochastics ...

[Ephelea]

Draft 6.

[Tagtraum]

Mhh ... You know what? I think you should add a sword : D I'm not sure if it's allowed to have a princess of swords without one.

*still there* *cough*

[Ephelea]

Page of Swords: "Upright - A good personal emissary, although sometimes a card associated with spying or surveying others from a detached viewpoint. A person of grace and dexterity, diplomatic and skilled in the ability to work out the true nature of things. A person who can negotiate expertly on behalf of his peers. Detachment is one of the true qualities of this figure."

"The Energy: Efficiency, Commitment, Pragmatism

The Page of Swords is a strong symbol for activity. As a member of the family of Swords also the Page is dominated by the power of rational thought. His actions are always effective, but often impetuous and insensitive.

In emotional issues you should follow the Page of Swords only with great caution. He favours vengeance and lacks sensitivity. If – on the other hand – you are in need of practical or logical advance the help of the Page of Swords is invaluable."
(( Page of Swords (http://www.paranormality.com/tarot_page_of_swords.shtml) , Page of Swords 2 (http://www.aleph-tarot.com/tarot-cards/swords/page-of-swords) ))
The card has also been associated with messengers, air, thought, and I'll look into implementing 'swords.' But, I'm not sure. I wasn't going for the literal.

[Tagtraum]

I see your point ... Maybe you better ask deastwen? If you don't need it it would be a shame to force a sword into the picture.
Maybe if it's a really weird shaped one, that might look interesting-

[Ephelea]

If any, it'd be old and rusted. :P Maybe laying next to some bones.

[curly]

First color sketch :)
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/3201/66176985.jpg

[Ephelea]

I'm going to be taking a day or two to rest. I have this awful flu/sinus thing going. GL with your pieces. :)

[curly]

Welcome to the club:) I'm sick from the beginning actually, gotto be better soon hopefully. Take a good care of yourself and get back soon!

[Tagtraum]

Oh, I'm sorry for you two :/ I only had a light cold around New Year's Eve luckily. Nevertheless I might be doing not so much this week because of my exams.
Get well soon ... And don't worry, Ephelea, there's still a lot of time til the deadline.

[Ephelea]

Oh, I'm sorry for you two :/ I only had a light cold around New Year's Eve luckily. Nevertheless I might be doing not so much this week because of my exams.
Get well soon ... And don't worry, Ephelea, there's still a lot of time til the deadline.

I start classes again on the 11th - so I was hoping to get most of my work done before then :P


curly, where's the light coming from? I'm slightly confused.

[Tagtraum]

11th is the day of my first exam D: The other ones will be on the 15th and 18th, just that you know. 15th is English, I won't have to learn many for that, luckily.
I'll see that I still do something during the exams, but the first one, music, is quite a lot to learn unfortunately :/

[Ephelea]

I CAN BREAAATHHHEE! :steph:
Just thought you'd want to know.

Okay. Getting back to work :lounge:

[Janos]

Tagtraum I like it. And good luck with you Abitur. Ist halb so schlimm, wenns vorbei ist fragt man sich warum man so einen Stress geschoben hat! ;)

[Ephelea]

Here we go, draft 7, minor changes. Gettin back into the swing of things, trying out my new pen nibs - yay felt!

[Tagtraum]

@Janos: Danke :) Ich bin so froh wenn's rum ist ... Obwohl dann der Stress erst anfängt, bei Unis bewerben etc. (Ich bin übrigens noch eine der Gelassensten momentan! : D)

@Ephelea: Glad you're back :)
I think something's wrong with her skin, but I'm not sure what.

[Ephelea]

@Ephelea: Glad you're back :)
I think something's wrong with her skin, but I'm not sure what.

Think about it, and get back to me ^-^

[Tagtraum]

Think about it, and get back to me ^-^

Okay :P I'll try, but I suppose I'm not a great help.
Well ... I think its about the color. This woman has pretty much the same skin color:
http://catwalkfashion.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/bantu-knots.jpg
But I just can't figure out what exactly the difference is :/ Maybe it's only the white light instead of the bright one in the jungle. Or maybe the darker parts of the skin in your picture go more into lilac, could that be?
And on the upper arm it looks a bit like metal because of the way the light is reflected, it should be softer.

By the way, I'm so jealous that you can draw hands this good x__X

[Ephelea]

I'll do some changes and see what happens.

And in regards to hands: I'm still working on it. I got a collection of anatomy books for christmas, from my mom. I had a Burne Hogarth book, and now I have 5 George Bridgman. :D I also took some anatomy/life drawing courses during college. Just keep practicing. If you can't get books, google "how to draw hands" or go through deviant art. It's a start.

[Ephelea]

the Empress.

I got bored with the peacock, the colors were too vibrant, so I tried this. :P She's "emperor penguin"

[Ephelea]

So, how are you guys coming along? :)

[Tagtraum]

Yay my music exam is done!! I'm baaack <33

Must confess that I didn't do much last week, but I've got no school for the next two weeks ^__^ except for Friday and Monday, of course.

[Ephelea]

Right on. I'm back in school. But it's storyboarding, and I'm pretty sure I'll manage to pass without killing myself and still have extra time. lol.

[Tommoy]

Ephelia, I liked your peacock design a lot, it's elegant and disturbing at the same time. The human skin reflects light but it isn't a mirror!. Don't use only red or reddish colors for skintones, some subtle bleu's or green's can do miracles. The hands are executed fine indeed, but the upper arm and shoulder need some work.
And if you're bored with it, you've got two characters don't you ;)
Well that's my two cents.

[Ephelea]

Ephelia, I liked your peacock design a lot, it's elegant and disturbing at the same time. The human skin reflects light but it isn't a mirror!. Don't use only red or reddish colors for skintones, some subtle bleu's or green's can do miracles. The hands are executed fine indeed, but the upper arm and shoulder need some work.
And if you're bored with it, you've got two characters don't you ;)
Well that's my two cents.

Thanks, I appreciate the honest critique, it really helps. <3<3<3 still want your art brain.

[Tommoy]

Thanks, I appreciate the honest critique, it really helps. <3<3<3 still want your art brain.

I'll send you a piece ;)

[Ephelea]

I'll send you a piece ;)

Suhweet!

[Ephelea]

Curly is no longer doing Team Chow, are you still in Tag?

[Tagtraum]

Curly is no longer doing Team Chow, are you still in Tag?

She's not? :( That's sad ...
I'm sorry for being so lazy in the last days. I did some anatomy stuff & exercises yesterday and I hope that my work will turn out a bit better now >_<

[Ephelea]

She's not? :( That's sad ...
I'm sorry for being so lazy in the last days. I did some anatomy stuff & exercises yesterday and I hope that my work will turn out a bit better now >_<

Don't be discouraged if it doesn't. Things don't change overnight. And, have you even attempted your second card? We're nearing the halfway point.

[Tagtraum]

Don't be discouraged if it doesn't. Things don't change overnight. And, have you even attempted your second card? We're nearing the halfway point.

Yes, actually I have around half a dozen attempts lying around here ; D but I didn't like any of them. So now I have one I'm halfway lucky with (and don't worry about the weird skin color, I'll change than : D):
Oh, and I doubt he'll stay half naked. I just need some decent magician-clothing.

[Ephelea]

there's a 3/4's rule on character, Tag, meaning, you'll need to extend the man in the picture so that you see to at least his knees.

[Ephelea]

Gah. I meant past his knees.

[Tagtraum]

there's a 3/4's rule on character, Tag, meaning, you'll need to extend the man in the picture so that you see to at least his knees.

Uhh I thought until the knees is enough Ô_o' it's not like there's so much left ... but I wanted to make him smaller anyway, for more background and stuff.

[Ephelea]

I'm pretty sure we're not going to be turning in our work. Shame.

[nefgoddess]

You can do it!!!!!!!!!
:)