Balancing traditional and digital

[Abelizmo]

Hey folks,
I have access to a sick ass computer, tablet, photoshop and whatnot..
As an art student I'm wondering how I should balance my time spent painting traditionally vs. digitally. Right now I figure I should practice traditionally and work on big-long illustrations digitally. Your comments/suggestions, please.

Thanks,
Abel

[Ardescoere]

I've been wondering that myself... And from looking around the forum for the last few months I think you should practice in both. I was watching one of massive black's dvds (which are well worth the money) and one is of Jason Chan doing the dream eater. The way he sketches digitally feels so utterly comfortable. I don't know how else to describe it. I mean, he clearly spent many years on the basics which you would do with pencils. But he also can sketch with similar skill in digital media.

I guess I mean you should practice in both and focus more on the one you want to pursue.

It's too early in the morning >.< hehe.

[bad_painter]

I think it's well worth putting in the time to use traditional media, because if you can get your art to look really good with that, then digital is no problem at all and you'll appreciate it more. Plus, you never know when a client will request a non-digital piece, so it's good to be able to fall back on that knowledge.

For myself, I learned through traditional media and it was a real bitch sometimes (depending on what I was using). Digital ushered in a whole new world for me with endless possibilities and none of the down-time when changing an image or fixing mistakes. So, I'll probably never go back to traditional media, unless I absolutely have to.

[dpaint]

I have to agree about traditional media being more important than digital tools. The skill gained learning to see and mix color and the eye/hand coordination learned from drawing is the foundation for artistic expression in any form. There is nothing that digital gives you that you don't get from traditional. Learning to use photoshop or maya doesn't help you create the correct proportions for a figure or the proper lighting for an effect.

[Baron Impossible]

Neither is necessary for success in the other so do what you're comfortable doing. If you start off with a preconceived notion that you need to divide your time in a certain way then that's not going to benefit your progress. Start with both and make your choice.

[riceface]

traditional sucks just stick with digital its the future

[Ivory_Oasis]

There is nothing that digital gives you that you don't get from traditional.

Traditional doesn't teach you how to apply and use layers to their fullest.

Traditional doesn't teach you how to streamline production to make you many times faster in producing for clients or work (selection techniques for example)

Traditional doesn't teach you to be comfortable using hotkeys and learning the ins and outs of a program (this is HUGE, people who have used something like photoshop for YEARS still don't know a lot of the things it is capable of).

Traditional doesn't teach you how to apply textures and patterns and a lot of other very important features that brings work to a different level of profesisonal work (again, faster and higher quality work. Lets see you texture realistic denim in pencil in any reasonable amount of time).

Basically, traditional doesn't teach you a lot of VERY important things you will need to learn for a career.

People always say that "if you learn how to draw traditional, you are learning how to draw in digital".

Yea, that is true. But it is also true that if you learn how to draw digital, you are learning how to draw traditional. The hand eye and coordination are being developed in digital, just like they are in traditional....making your hand do what your brain and eye see is not isolated to traditional.

It never hurts to be able to do things in more ways though! Being able to pump out great work in markers and pen fast is a great asset to have. But I think the bulk of the work is going to be digital based (digital will simply always be faster than traditional, the ability to correct mistakes and continue a sketch into the more advanced stages of finish work are simply more streamlined with digital.)

The speed difference becomes painfully obvious when you start moving into fully colored / polished work. If you compare traditional painting with digital painting, you are talking about days of time difference..... and in a production environment, well, I can only think that being able to produce such a crazy amount faster is a hugeeee advantage.

But then again I might be missing something. This is just from thinking about it and listening to people in the industry, it seems the medium isn't what matters... it is about speed and quality (whatever you do it in).

[Flake]

You should have all these arguments for why you hate traditional media in a text file Ivory, that way you could just Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V them.

Saves time.

[Elwell]

Balance it however seems comfortable and productive to you. Don't worry so much.

[alesoun]

Basically, traditional doesn't teach you a lot of VERY important things you will need to learn for a career.

.

I thought you learned a medium. There's a digital teaching program?

Damnit! I coulda just plugged into that and saved myself SO much time! ;)

[Abelizmo]

You should have all these arguments for why you hate traditional media in a text file Ivory, that way you could just Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V them.

Saves time.

Hahaaa! :teeth:

Anyways, I'm still a bit confused... so I'm just gonna continue to work bigger projects in digital (to take adv. of all the non-linear possibilities) and work my traditional skillZ in shorter stuff. Thanks for your opinions people

[JeffX99]

Good question Abel - and a lot of interesting responses. Whenever I hired people to become part of our team we were only concerned with their traditional skills and their ability to communicate (conceptualize). It was easy to teach them digital tools and our production pathways (which constantly, CONSTANTLY change by the way). What we couldn't teach them in a short time was light/shadow, foreshortening, proportion, form, etc. - all the important fundamental principles.

So, your stuff looks pretty solid - you're off to a good start - stick with your fundamentals - much easier to study and learn in traditional media. As far as "practice traditionally and work on big-long illustrations digitally" - if the piece isn't well grounded in the fundamentals from the start (the first 20 minutes at most), you'll be wasting your time after that. So a big, long digital illustration that is poorly set up from the beginning will be a big, long poor digital illustration.

Good luck and keep it up!

Jeff

[dpaint]

[QUOTE=Ivory_Oasis;2513961]
The speed difference becomes painfully obvious when you start moving into fully colored / polished work. If you compare traditional painting with digital painting, you are talking about days of time difference.....


All those concepts for the star wars movies by Iain and Doug and Terry were drawn and painted then they payed people to mock them up digitally, Gee, I wonder why. If digital is just as good and more efficient, Lucas would have done it because if anything he likes to save a buck; but no they did it traditionally

When I was working for EA they brought me in to clean up 5 digital backgrounds that the artists there had spent a month a piece on. I redid them all from scratch in two days, and they were better than the other ones. How do I know because they threw them out and used mine. I paint a painting in two or three hours, of course I can do it in a software program to but the software doesn't matter.

I can show anybody how to use a computer or a piece of software in a couple of months. Using a computer is the end of the process, there are no hot keys or brushes for good composition or correct proportions.

In a perfect world digital artists could be as good as someone with traditional skills but what ends up happening is people who use digital too much rely on the software to give them the correct perspective or drop a shadow in place or create an effect of light that they couldn't do themselves and once that happens they have failed as an artist because the computer is making decisions for them that they can't make for themselves.

If you are incapable of doing that image traditionally then you can't really do it. And more than anything art is about making the right decisions for color and composition, etc. It is a tool like an airbrush or anything else, but learning to draw and paint takes a skill set that takes years of practice and study.

Things have gone to digital not because they are faster or more efficient but because they can give the jobs to people with less skill. Not enough people with talent to go around. Thats why Massive Black, Lightsource and other art houses get so much work. You think if a company could do it inhouse they wouldn't do it? No they would, but they don't have the talent.

Computers allow you to chop the process up into little pieces of mindless work and pay people 8 bucks an hour. Of course when you want something really creative done you hire a McCaig or Mullins to come in and draw and paint something for you. And then pay someone else half of what you give them to get it into the pipeline.

[{CKL}]

Umm...I'm going to bypass everything being debated and state this, work from life, A LOT. If it's more convenient to use traditional mediums, for lack of a nice sizable laptop and tablet, then stick with that. The most important factor is in your ability to interpret reality and transpose or re-imagine it in any medium.

Don't worry about pixels or pigment, worry more about the grey matter between your ears. That's where it will all come together.

And as far as illustration or personal work, use whatever makes you happy.

[Helaine]

You should just go however you like it.



You can learn about using colors and anatomy digitally too. I don't understand why you should absolutely do it traditionally, you can learn everything digitally. Light, value, color, composition, anatomy, perspective.... anything XD

[{CKL}]

I think people confuse traditional mediums with traditional skills, skills can be taught with any medium.

[nauvice]

I would recommend owning your skills with traditional first, because with it you are limited, and so you can focus on what you have and strengthen your skills that way, as opposed to digital, it might be overwhelming for someone who is just starting out, to have any brush size, any color, any canvas size, etc.

[Spreggo]

Yeah learning Photoshop or whatever really isn't the hard part. I knew Photoshop in and out for years before I even started painting.

Knowing how to use layers and apply textures will not make you a better artist. It might make you a lazy artist though.

I know one of the reasons I am working to learn pencil drawing before I get back into digital again is because I am obtaining a degree of discipline that I never got from digital. It really forces you to try your best to get things right the first time.

[JeffX99]

CK has it right about working from life - by far the best and shortest route to artistic ability, confidence and expression.
I have to disagree somewhat however, that skills can be taught/learned with any medium - this is true in a general sense I suppose but not all mediums are equal - some are much more forgiving and flexible making them ideal to study and learn the fundamentals. Watercolor is a very difficult medium for example while oils are very forgiving - oils are definitely the medium to start off with and learn the fundamentals of painting.
Well, you've definitely heard a lot of different opinions and I'm glad to see most fall on the traditional media side. I would recommend two really excellent resources - Deborah Rockman's book: Drawing Essentials and Jim Gurney's blog: GurneyJourney.
Have fun!

[{CKL}]

Jeffx99, there are definitely different learning curves and limitations to each medium, I am in 100 percent agreement on that. I think, for most beginners, trying to find a medium that is restrictive enough that it doesn't overwhelm you, yet forgiving enough that you can correct mistakes is the key to growth. Later, when you're uber awesome you can pick up just about anything that can make a mark and bang out something interesting one way or another.

[Abelizmo]

Thanks guys. The last few posts really cleared things up for me, you all made some good points.

Jeffx99- You're right. It definitely does feel easier to improve my skills when I'm working with traditional materials. Thanks for looking at my stuff!

dpaint- I appreciate your perspective from working in the industry.. helps me see the bigger picture!

zwarrior- I get overwhelmed with those things all the time.. it's like being at the art supply store, too many options for me. I spend an hour there but leave with only a couple HB pencils

[bad_painter]

it's like being at the art supply store, too many options for me. I spend an hour there but leave with only a couple HB pencils

Best analogy ever! :teeth:

[Chris Saksida]

I don`t understand why so many people hate traditional materials so much... I started painting digital; and now I`m starting to learn how to paint in oils; and I`m falling in love with the medium, it`s soooooo different and BETTER in so many ways...

BUT, if you want to work in concept art or illustration, it`s better to work in digital because it`s a lot faster, you can produce more in less time.

[Abelizmo]

DUDE!
I'm gonna use traditional methods in digital materials! I think i've reached enlightenment

Chris, I like the way your digital stuff looks. It doesn't gross me out like a lot of other digital stuff i see. I realize this comment is in no way helpful, but it's how I feel..