Cooking With Idiot: Danomight, kaktuzlime and Henchmen 21 Edition

[Idiot Apathy]

Assignment ZERO:
1. Introduce yourself!
2. Explain what it is you are looking to learn and think I can help with. Let me know if you would like me to create exercises or if you would like general help on whatever you would like to work on.
3. Visit each others sketchbooks, give a crit. Point out each others strengths and constructively identify one possible weaknesses. Link it back here. Be cool about it.
4. Point out your OWN strengths and identify what you believe to be your greatest weakness. Be brutal but honest :)
5. Identify your favorite type of cake.

Do this as soon as possible, then we can get on to a real assignment!

[Justin.]

1: Justin Oaksford; 18; Pooped my way throught highschool and somehow stuimbled into an internship at Spacetime Studios in Austin Texas doing Concept art (with da awesomest kru). ACCD in spring I hope.

2: My particular weaknesses are in bringing things to completion. At least, currently. I'm about to start a personal portfolio project (it will double as my ACCD portfolio and a freelance portfolio. It will be essentially alot of "pitch level" materials (read; I got inspired by Skillful Huntsman book) for the Grimm Tale, "The Golden Bird". I read a bunch of grimm tales... I read until I found one I liked and hadn't been done. =) But exercises aren't bad either.

3: http://conceptart.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1744788&postcount=49

4: I don't really know what I would consider a strength. Nothing particular stands out that I can think of. I guess in the huge picture, characters are "stronger", but I don't feel like they are really "strong".

5: Angel food.

[Danomight]

1: Howdy doo :) I'm Daniel Garcia, also known as DANNNOOOOMIIIIGHT:tihi: ! !!! I was born in Texas near the gulf coast and I have spent most of my life growing up in Austin, with the exception of a couple of years spent in New York City.

I've always had at least a little passion to draw since I was about 10 years old, but I really only began seeking to improve a few years ago.
I went to a couple of colleges here in Austin, not studying art, but playing baseball instead. I do not have a formal education in drawing people or characters or monsters or anything. I learned most of the stuff I know from observing people here at CA, various other online communities, illustrators and painters, comic artists, animation...everyday life

2: I'm trying to learn how to be looser and more open with my approach in my work. Your method of creating images seems to be the exact opposite of what I do, and I figure that's an important thing to explore.

I think it would be good to have a little of both- exercises (that's how I learn best) as well as critiques and some direction from you on my own work.

3:http://conceptart.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1741039&postcount=854

4: Hmm, strengths... I guess I would consider drawing people one of them. Maybe drawing in general. I dunno, maybe problem solving, or concepting...I can usually come up with good ideas for community topics or stories for my own characters.

Weaknesses...I'll just make these really general cause there are so many, lol. Paint and color, I simply have trouble working with these :P I usually steal color palettes from my favorite artists work :\ As far as painting goes, I usually just fill in my own lines, I struggle a LOT without them. I also tend to get hung up on little details and imperfections in my work. Can lead to lots of unfinished stuff. Um, what else..., I always try to create stuff thats beyond my skill set, usually ends in fail. And environments, I'm not good at them.

5: ice cream cake , mmm mmmm

[Idiot Apathy]

Justin: Any idea on how you'd like to start? If nothing else we can go over a recent or in progress painting and focus on polishing. Let me know dude.

Dan: Ok dude, let's start with values and colors then. For those of you who might be reading along, Dan and I talked it over a bit and decided that coloring a drawing of his would be a good start.

Dan Part One:
In all that you do as you learn do so with focus. It is best to combat an army of problems if you divide and conquer. The army becomes smaller more manageable groups that you can take your time and eliminate one by one.

Step one:
Image (Click) (http://bp0.blogger.com/_DxIluMi0NY8/R9iCPRZJ_EI/AAAAAAAAABY/JxStZImkIvU/s1600/1.jpg)
Take this image and reduce it by half. Set up a canvas that can afford room for 4 of this image side by side. I want to see you plan your design in pure black and white - really think about what values are going to communicate what it is you want to communicate. Make your message clear. You are doing this at a reduced size for the sake of efficiency as well as inhibiting the tendency to create detail early. I would also like to see a clear defined lightsource - complete with cast shadows. Consider casting the shadow of the head onto the torso - do whatever you possibly can to make the form readable and create depth. Give me four Dano, and be efficient!

[Justin.]

Alrighty. I really wanted to finish this one;

[Danomight]

Not sure if this is what you wanted. I'm not gonna tell you how much time I spent zoomed in trying to paint detail :shrug:

[Idiot Apathy]

Justin: Ok dude, read up on the picture a little bit in your sketchbook but I still have some questions - namely - what is it? Does the platform rest on or above the beach? What in general are you trying to accomplish and communicate? It's a sweet image, has some really great stuff going for it. I don't see you on IM much, not that I've been on much either - life keeping you busy?

Dan: Yup - pretty much what I wanted. Work on being even quicker - neatness doesn't matter for this stage; it's all about forming a plan and the more efficent you are the more you can plan. Which of these 4 variants do you respond to and why?

[Danomight]

Ahh, ok, I get you. I see how it wouldn't be important at all to make these super rendered or clean. Probably could have left all of the earlier, rougher brush strokes and the same info would have been conveyed.

Response:
Well, first off, the last one doesn't appeal to me at all. It feels really dull, nothing really stands out, it comes off even more generic than the rest, lol. I think maybe if it were a few shades darker, it might work better.

I am kinda drawn to the first two because of their contrast. The first guy has a wider variety of grays than the others and I think it might translate well to color, not sure though. Plus, it makes it easier to differentiate all of the pieces of his uniform. I tried a couple of things with him, like having the boots dark with light gloves and vice versa, but they didn't work well.

On the other hand, I like the third one because it brings all of those pieces together to form a single covering. The dark grays around his feet and hands kinda add a worn feel to his suit and the darker eyes give him an insect or animal -like quality. I think this version would look really good colored... or rather, left nearly white, with touches of color on his suit, such as dark red eyes or colored boot straps.

I think I may have missed some opportunity to add some highlights on the second guy over. Some stronger white highlights might give a really cool texture to the black areas. But yeah, I really like the dark/light separation on that guy, really gives him a unique look.

Not sure if I like one more than the other, I just know that I don't like the last one :)

What do you think?

[Justin.]

I kind of had this idea that it was a dock/pier thing that generated wind, solar, and hydro power. (solar panels, windmill inside the large mass, and hydro power beneath it all), but really I was just having fun with shapes. There is no beach really; it's mostly rocky coast.

however, I was thinking about it and maybe exercises would actually be a better way to go. As is already obvious with this first piece, communication of concept is going to be really rough compared with something a little more standardized of a function (like dan's value studies or something)

[Idiot Apathy]

Dan: Trouble is - I don't know anything about this character. What he is and what he does is still in your head - your objective could be so many things. I'm going to give you my interpretation of each design but I want you to go with what you think is best.

(Sorry if I sound like a dick, I'm too tired to rewrite things with care but understand my intent is not to be a dick.)
(Looking back, the goal I had in mind for this exercise didn't have much to do with value patterns but more with to do with planning your lighting ahead of time and focusing on interest. This was supposed to be about color Tom, shit son go to bed you're tired. Anyhow, we may as well talk design as well.)

(I'm just going to ramble for a bit. This just concerns value patterns and not the design of the actual suit or figure)

1. Contrast seems to be in all the wrong places. I would think his arms would be important to his role - granted against a darker background they might work to bring attention. Then perhaps it is wise to consider the setting of the character. I really could care less about his feet, yet they seem to draw my eye quite powerfully. Overall the value pattern feels - odd for what I percieve his purpose to be. More like a sci-fi uniform sort of deal perhaps? *shrugs*
2. Better. Some interesting things and a little more design to the value pattern. Honestly I think part of the problem here is the design of the suit itself in that you have a pretty equal division of space between the white and black stripes. Mix that shit up dude! Overall I like the feeling I get from this guy much better - it has more appeal in my opinion. I might darken the hose and backpack. The contrast with the eyes is great.
3. Not a bad design - but also feels like the norm in a way. Expected perhaps. I don't know - just needs more interest. The eyes are cool, especially if they are super reflective. Shadows are always nice on light tones too.
4. You are going to hate this - but the last one appeals to me the most. Granted I do think the all black thing is done to death - but it continues to be done better and better. I think this one could be really interesting given the proper highlights and rendering. I could see a mixture of matte and glossy blacks with chrome perhaps? The white backpack - why? Why would you draw so much attention to this? It is good that you are using contrasts - but remember to use them to say something important.

(Ok, the real point of the exercise! Lighting design!)

I would probably bring the light up and to the left of this guy. Think about differentiating the planes as much as possible. My instinct would be to make sure the front of the head and the side of the head went from light to shadow in order to really pop the form. This will also create some really nice cast shadows that will further the form. Shadows = form! Cast and form shadows are your friends Dan!

(I'm becoming less and less coherent as the night goes on - so let's move on to step two.)

Step Two!
Pick one of the value patterns and give me 4 variants on the lighting. Focus on the illusion of form and creating interest. See what works and what doesn't - remember you learn just as much if not more from your mistakes and the faster you make them the more you learn ;)

---

Justin: I simply needed to understand what you were trying to accomplish before I could help. There are a few things within this painting I can think of that we can focus on as far as technique if you would like - but if you still prefer we can do exercises. Let me know.

[Justin.]

Yeah, exercises would be better =\

[Idiot Apathy]

Justin: No worries dude, whatever you think will work best. If there is any one thing I think you should work on right now it would be brush and edge control.

I want you to do a 1:1 copy of one of the photographs I am about to post. I really feel this is one of the best ways to learn to use your brushes effectively as well as one of the best ways to study edges and as an added bonus you will greatly improve your perception as you strive for accuracy. I hope you are down for this.


Justin Part One:
Pick one of these photographs
360560360561360562360563

Double your canvas size so that you have the reference on the left and your painting area on the right. Again - this is on the same canvas with reference and painting side by side - think akin to a Bargue study. You would also do well to increase your working resolution to at least 200%.

Recommendations:
I would stick to a simple round brush set with opacity and flow to pressure and minimum size to around 70% until you need something finer for details. Use whatever hardness and manual flow setting necessary for each situation. I discourage the use of manual opacity except in special cases where you need finite control.

I would also do a quick sketch or two in order to familiarize yourself with the reference and then start over for the final.

Measure! Use level lines from the reference to the painting if you need. Never be too proud to use crutches - always be weary of depending upon them.

Simplify - Don't render out the hair or other intricate patterns. Block them in and keep them loose.

Let me know if you have any questions.

[Justin.]

Yep- I seem to have a wrist problem when using pressure opacity- I have my pen pressure settings set very softly and use the numpad for opacity. It's definitely solved my wrist problem, and I'm not sure why it's necessary for this exercise. I'll go ahead and set my pressure softer, but if my wrist gets painful again I will probably have to switch it back.

I'll also save the step by step.

EDIT: yeah man, I've been painting like this for about 30 minutes and my hand is already shooting with pain.

[Idiot Apathy]

Ouch dude - sorry to hear that. You should really see a doctor dude. Seriously! Your doc can not only help the problem but get you set up so it doesn't happen again.

The pressure settings are "necessary" because you need to be able to intuitively select the amount of paint you need. It allows for much more control as well as more natural brushstrokes. For now - definitely don't strain your wrist. You might try using manual flow instead of manual opacity. Just click the airbrush icon and now the numberpad should control the flow.

[Danomight]

Here are my lighting studies. It actually took me a little bit to figure out the highlight on some of the gloves and boots, how to create it using whites and darks.

It was interesting trying to create folds and overlapping areas in the clothing that it didn't initially draw in specifically. That was probably one of the biggest challenges, creating interesting shapes on some of the flat surfaces of his suit.

I like the first couple because they put a stronger emphasis on his face. The second two came out ok, but nothing really stands out to me. And the last one, I just tried a really strong highlight along his back, tried to create a spotlight effect I guess.

[Idiot Apathy]

Justin: How's the hands dude?

Dano: Sup punk! As far as design and story telling each of these tells - obviously a different story. Since we're not really focusing on that and I don't really want to sidetrack things again - we'll focus on what is most descriptive of the form combined with the most appeal. I think the second one is ace! I would however light to see some rimlighting akin to the last one but perhaps a little more subdued. To further the exercise I think the first shows the form very well but somehow just lacks the appeal the second has. The third hold your attention for only a moment, you see the whole thing and move on right away. Same with the fourth, thought I can see this one being perhaps more descriptive (and that is truely your primary role in concept) It's not quite as appealing. The last one is pretty appealing but not that descriptive. It could be really interesting with a little fill lighting though. I almost think you should pick between the 2nd and the last now - up to you; but yeah I'm rambling ;)

Right then! Color! Let's see 4 more figures each with a different color scheme or pattern. Really explore what is going to be appealing and descriptive of the characters role. Let's see what you got foo! Don't worry about lighting right now - divide and conquer!

[Igor Sandman]

Hello,

Is it to late to join? I'd be very interrested! :hugsmile:

I'm doing art for my own interrest, meaning I'm not especialy aiming at a job in the field. I attended one of Don Seegmiller's online workshop at CGSociety. Other than that, I learn with books and online tutorials.

I don't have a sketchbook, so i'v attached a couple of paintings I've done.

As for my strength and weakness, I have a terrible time drawing from imagination. I can copy a drawing or draw from photo and I can draw from life quite ok, but drawing from imagination always is difficult to me. Another weaknes of mine is my lack of self confidence. I lock myself into making exercises and whatnot just to flee the fear of coming up with something personnal. But i'm working on that.
I'd say my strength are mood and the theories of art. I can spot why a picture isn't wroking straight away even though the artist who painted it is far better than me. That must come from reading so many books on the subject.

What I would expect from this workshop is getting tips and assignments on how to create thumbnails (mainly for characters) efficiently. I'm always amazed when I see artists coming up with a quick silhouette in Painter or PS. When I try that, either I get stuck into fine details right from the start, or what I draw is so random that it doesn't look like anything at all... So I'd love to get some help on thinking the "big picture" without paying too much attention to details. Here is a link to Clader's SB to show you what I' talking about: Link (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=81913) (the first sketches on that page or the marines on page 8 )
I could also use some help on showing forms. I can paint basic shapes, but when painting a more complex object, I seem to forget everything :/ My mind doesn't make the link...

I really hope I'm not too late and I can tag along with you guys and learn!
-IS-

[Idiot Apathy]

Sorry dude, this thread is for Danomight and Justin Oaksford only. Time only permits me to comfortably accommodate two people a month, any more and the already low quality of teaching would plummet.

There is a sign up thread for future consideration here:
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=123507
I've also set up a number of exercises open to everyone here:
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=76955

Cheers dude!

[SoufMeng]

Idiot Apathy, can u tell me if u mind me pasting the BW pictures from the "cooking with idiot" threads into my laptop to make studies of them?
Thought i would do it without asking then said to myself i'd better notify u especially if i wanna put one of the studies in my SB aftawards.
Sorry to pollute the thread with this kinda crap but i had to make sure.
Thanx.

Danomight, Justin Oaksford keep it up!!!

[Idiot Apathy]

Yeah dude of course, not my photo's anyhow. :O
Just stolen from the internet. I'd be interested to see how it ends up, lemme know!

[Igor Sandman]

Sorry dude, this thread is for Danomight and Justin Oaksford only. Time only permits me to comfortably accommodate two people a month, any more and the already low quality of teaching would plummet.

There is a sign up thread for future consideration here:
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=123507
I've also set up a number of exercises open to everyone here:
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=76955

Cheers dude!
OK no problem. Thanks ^^
Maybe next time then.

[SoufMeng]

Yeah dude of course, not my photo's anyhow. :O
Just stolen from the internet. I'd be interested to see how it ends up, lemme know!

Thanx Idiot (oh no offense :D )
My last update was only studies done using those pics.
Here (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=123109&page=2) if u wanna see.

[Danomight]

I don't have much to say about my process this time around, don't know much about color. I think most of these were picked at random. I guess they feel a bit cartoon like, over the top and unrealistic.

Tom, do you have a method for picking colors or choosing a palette? I suppose a lot of this would depend on the dood's purpose, like is he a bad guy or good guy, fighter or healer.

I tried to stick with the value range I established earlier in the first step of this thread, but everything I tried came out really similar, so I used some odd colors to make it a little more interesting. Hmm, fail?

If I HAD to use of one of these, I'd probably go with the first one (which happens to have the least amount of color o.O).

[Idiot Apathy]

Honestly I don't usually have a thought process for color. First it's what makes sense for the material and the characters purpose. Practical before unique. Then it's compositional thoughts, do I want it to stand out or harmonize? Back in my colorist days I would usually "flat" each object and then use the hue/saturation slider and experiment - see what I responded to. Hell I still do that even with environments.
Your first is probably the most practical, but will take a sweet render and good details to make it interesting. The 2nd is too disco for my tastes :P The third and fourth are a bit garish. The 5th I like more than the first all of a sudden. The red will probably need to be repeated so it doesn't stand out so much. Or maybe just toned down a bit. The last one is pretty interesting but not exactly that practical or maybe just believable?

I dunno dude, we're focusing a lot more on design than color and painting - but if it's what you are interested in I think the next step before we move on would be to write a paragraph or two of what you see as this characters role and purpose. Cool?

[Justin.]

Sorry I took so long. Been sick recently, and I picked probably the most difficult image for me.

Still hacking away at it; I guess I flipped it horizontal and forgot? Each time I'd get into details I'd pull away with a large brush and try to repaint the masses. The angle of her head is hidden by the hair and it's pissing me off. I was working pretty far zoomed out too.

[Danomight]

Tom and I have been going back and forth over email with this and I forgot to keep updating the thread, my bad.

Here is a shot of how I've tried to paint this guy so far. I started with some basic flats on a separate layer from my lines and then started painting over everything on a 3rd layer.

You might be able to tell I can't decide on the rendering for the suit, but I'll get to that in the next post. You might also be able to tell where Tom took my image and ran some adjustments levels on it- I believe it was 2 different color balances, a curves adjustment, and a selective color adjustment.

[Danomight]

And here was was my latest e-mail to Tom:

Here is where I left off on this ....thing. Elwell's edges thread was a good read, but I couldn't figure out how to apply it to my image very well. I softened some receding and shadowed areas, but I think I may have been a little too conservative for it to have any noticeable effect.

Also, I stumbled for a while, while rendering the suit. I felt it wasn't turning out very believable/interesting without many folds or irregular shapes and shadows, so I found a handful of hazmat reference pics online to help. That seems to be a problem for me so far, figuring out the weird irregular shapes and shadows that naturally occur in real life. Thinking back, I am realizing that this affects my drawings as well as the paints. Probably just need about another 50 years of observational and life drawing to help out :)

I still need to clean up a few areas, like waist area...I need to figure out how to bring out his overlapping hand a little more,...and I probably need to revisit the edges thread and think about that a little more.

Oh, I also tried out horizontal flipping a few times! So helpful for getting a fresh look at the image and finding out of whack areas.

[Idiot Apathy]

Going to need a day or two before I can get back to you gents, chairs!

[Justin.]

Update

(I zoomed in this time)

[Justin.]

Finished this a few days ago.. forgot..

[Idiot Apathy]

Sorry guys, been hella busy :) Glad to see you kicking ass without me though.

Justin: Working on yours now, will try and get it done tonight but ... probably not :\ Looks great though.

Dano: Hey dude, did a quick PO. Uhm, thought it was of importance to say that if you were doing an illustration/ortho that would be headed directly to the modeler/texture people you probably wouldn't use a colored lightsource; you'd want a default white to avoid confusion. For all other purposes - whatever makes something more interesting, go for it. Make sense?
http://www.divshare.com/download/4556521-ff4
This link is for the layered PSD of the PO. Hopefully it makes sense. I mainly just did what I would do naturally. Let me know if you have any questions.

374329

Would you like to take this one further into detailing or would you like to move on?

[Idiot Apathy]

Justin: Really impressive dude, good job. (Ok get ready for a ramble) I spent probably another good 30 minutes to polish it just a little more. The biggest problems are drawing accuracy and edges. The face is maybe a little stretched or it could perhaps be that it's tilted a little differently. Shoulder placement and shoulder placement in relation to the head is a bit off as well. It's really some pretty hard stuff but I think if you just measure a bit more in before you jump in you'll have this down. Next is attention to edges, you have a lot of really hard edges even where they should be rather soft. I know you have a hard time using pressure sensitivity (you seen a doctor yet? huh!?) So you might try using a low flow setting and a softer brush to work your edges. Consider working soft to hard as well, though hard to soft works too - just experiment a bit. Watch for subtle gradations within a plane and with likewise subtle plane shifts like with the corners of her lips. With the hair you might have more sucess working big to medium to small. Generalize the strands into locks and then include only the important detail. There were a few spots like the eyes, nostrils and a few core and cast shadows that benefited from a little more attention to detail. There is so much information in these subtle things.

374345

374344

How do you feel about doing another one of these? Worn out and ready to move on?

[Justin.]

Awesome! There are alot of places I see that you softened the edges for focal reasons moreso than accuracy, but overall (along with the the subtle drawing changes like the ellipse in the eye and the lip thing) it just has a much better feeling. The paintover helped a fuckton :D

[Danomight]

Thanks for the PO dood, very helpful :) I guess we can move one from here to another image. I might study your layers a bit and mess with this a little if I get bored, but I wanna start another painted image. Perhaps a character with skin tone. Got any ideas?

[Kian]

Nice work lads :hatsoff:

[Danomight]

Thanks Jon!! Been loving your Nation progress :)

Ok, Tom and I spoke over messenger and decided on painting another character, so I drew one up.

[Idiot Apathy]

Justin had to drop out to focus on other things. A new mentee should be along shortly, kaktuzlime. Looking forward to it!

Dano - if you have time; please view kaktuzlime's sketchbook and follow #3 from the first post. http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1740818&postcount=1

[kaktuzlime]

Hello! I´m so thrilled to have been given the opportunity to join in here! Thanks Idiot Apathy! And I´m looking forward to growing and learning alongside with you Danomight!

So, assignment 1.

1: My name is Johannes Helgeson, I just turned 22 and live in Skövde in Sweden. I´ll be graduating from University in a couple of weeks with a bachelors degree in art and media. My biggest passion in life is drawing. As soon as I get a decent portfolio together I´ll be applying for a lot of full time positions as a conceptartist in the movie- and game-industries ^^

2: I´m looking to get better at describing form and shape with tone. I also hope to get some help at drawing environments. It´d be great if you could create the assignments ^^. Please feel free to stray from these subject matters if you feel that I need more urgent improvement elsewhere! I´m always looking to get better at anything art-related :D

3:http://conceptart.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1786143&postcount=53

4:

Strengths:

- I think I create some pretty interesting character designs.
- I feel pretty confident with basic form description, boxes, spheres, cylinders etc.
- I belive I´ve got a fair understanding of facial features.
- I´m not afraid to make mistakes.

Weaknesses:

- I´m poor at drawing environments.
- My anatomy is basic at best.
- My characters don´t have enough emotion and purpose.
- I don´t know colour theory well enough.
- I´m slow when painting digitally.
- I´m lost when describing form with tone.
- My lighting could use tons of improvement.
- I´m poor at describing different textures and materials.
- I suck at drawing confident lines digitally.
- I´ve got a pretty small visual library.

I´m sure there´s alot more ^^

5: That ought to be strawberry cake, with swedish strawberries. The one my grandmother makes on my birthdays :)

I´m looking forward to the assignments! Thank you for taking the time to help us out, and for allowing me to join :D

[Danomight]

Thanks for the comment Kaktuzlime! Lots of very insightful advice, some of which I have never heard before, thanks a ton :) I felt like most of what you said was spot on, especially the part about needing life in my characters, I feel the same way about my work. I went ahead and left one for you as well:

http://conceptart.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1786682&postcount=353

Tom gave me a new reference assignment cause, well, that last drawing I posted wasn't all that great :/ Here is a line drawing from photo ref:

[kaktuzlime]

Ok, so since I wanted to get better at drawing environments, among other things ^^, I spent some time today and yesterday drawing some together. They were all painted in between 30 and 60 minutes. I did my best, so please feel free to critisize them to smithereens ^^.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c308/kaktuzlime/enviro25.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c308/kaktuzlime/enviro45.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c308/kaktuzlime/enviro8.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c308/kaktuzlime/enviro7.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c308/kaktuzlime/enviro6.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c308/kaktuzlime/enviro5.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c308/kaktuzlime/enviro11.jpg
Edit (added 3):
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c308/kaktuzlime/enviro15.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c308/kaktuzlime/enviro13.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c308/kaktuzlime/enviro145.jpg

[kaktuzlime]

And thus I added my final 3, which makes ten! ^^

[Danomight]

Great job man! 1, 8 and 10 are my faves <3 I'm gunna try something like this too :)

[Idiot Apathy]

Cool cool, going to try make some time for the thread late tonight. Cheers.

[Idiot Apathy]

Dan: This is really ace dude, very solid. I've been meaning to catch you on IM so we can talk about it. I'd love to know your thoughts - so let's talk soon. Plan was to move on to coloring from here - you game or no?

Johannes: Love your enthusiasm dude :). I'm just going to shoot from the hip on these and say whatever comes to mind ok? My words might be abrasive/harsh but know that my intentions are not. For the time being let's leave color for another exercise.

1. Really love the variety in all of these dude. I'd like to see a little more of the extreme foreground structure - at the moment trying to figure out what's going on with it is distracting me. I think your rounder larger building in the background is out of perspective with your midground and foreground. I'd like to see much more aerial perspective and atmosphere in this one. Remember that the further things are they will generally lose contrast. (Color, edges - the works). Good shapes, fun composition and interesting subject.

2. Mmm, not a bad pallete. A good sort of standard path based composition. Try and vary your shapes a little more for interest. Think big little and small. Repetition is of course good and necessary for man-made subjects but then it's your job to compose it in a way that is more interesting. Aerial perspective is good in this one. Perspective on the columns however is not - it's not as bad the further back but you can't get away with not showing the sides with the closer pillars. I mocked up a real quick example in Google SketchUp, it's a free 3d program from google and incredibly easy to use. I really recommend you play with it and use it to help you understand perspective a little better. I know I sure need it.

385239

3. Nice dude, ambitious. Again perspective is the weakness. Let's see a super simple mock up of this in Google SketchUp ok? That's your exercise 1.5. Tell me what you learn.

4. I like. Try and keep from centering things - equal spaces and what not, generally makes things stagnant or at the very least just not as interesting as it could be. Could use a few more planes - more of a division between foreground and mid would be nice too. Remember to really punch your aerial perspective for depth - your figure and the structure have just about the same values.

5. Very nice dude. Some good shapes and eye direction - classic dark on light. Your hill shapes and line directions could use a little variety perhaps? Just a little same same same - very hmmmmm artificial perhaps? /\/\/\. Break it up! Variety is the spice of life.

6. Your pillar and your wall don't even line up here! Come on man! I like the background though. The Three hills up front against the wall need more variety!

7. Some fun eye direction and good shape contrast in this one, love compositions based around 3 focal points too. 3's are so much better than 2's and 4's. Spikes could use a little variety. Footprints don't seem to be affected much by aerial perspective. Remember to affect your edges with aerial perspective too!

8. Yeeehaw! Fun. Simple and powerful. I want to see the circle pattern behind him spiral out a bit more, maybe golden spiral like. Better shape variety in this one by the way.

9. Hey! Perspective! Looks pretty good. Though - the picture itself isn't very interesting/appealing you know? Just kind of - buwhaaahuh?! Spheres aren't shaded convincingly either - more on that later if you'd like.

10. Looks like you are getting some practice in with custom brushes - good good, keep it up. Values and focal point in this one could be stronger - not much of a statement said here in general - too ambiguous.

Ok - again, just shooting from the hip and saying what comes to mind. I hope my words aren't too harsh because my intentions are just the opposite.

Let me know of any questions you have - and I'm hoping you do have them, makes my job much easier if I have leads you know?

Did you see the exercise 1.5 in #3? I want you to get acquainted with Google SketchUP. Run through the tutorial that starts up after install and if you have the time and motivation watch the videos on the site. It's extremely intuitive and a valuable tool to add to your belt.

[kaktuzlime]

To start with, Thanks Tom! This is the second best critique I´ve been given in my entire life ^^ ! Your effort makes me want to try even harder.

Secondly, you words are not too harsh. Far from it, I had actually expected worse ^^. I´m here to learn, and as such, you should never feel you need to hold back on me. I want to hear it all. Good and, more importantly, bad. Just wanted to clarify ;D

Questions:

-

Aerial perspective and Focalpoints

As you said, I generally need to employ more aerial perspective. This propelled me to look deeper into what creates depth in an image. Reading through seedlings threads and general browsing on wikipedia I came to assume that the general principles of aerial perspective are the following:

- Less contrast farther away. (as you said ^^)
- Less saturated farther away, colours shifts to background/sky colour which is generally blue. Different at sunrise sunset etc. where it turns more towards red.
- Less Detail Further away.
- Less sharp further away (blurry).

(I´m guessing this is a gross oversimplification, but I´m wondering if I missed out on anything big?)

Now, I´m having some troubles creating focalpoints with these principles of aerial perspective in mind. As far as I know, the means of creating focalpoints are:

- High contrast (value, colours etc.)
- Contrasting shapes (----|--)
- Contrasting texture (like having a wooden object in the middle of a landscape made out of metal etc.)
- Lines leading towards the point of interest.
- Composition in general ;P (golden rule etc. This is one of my weakest points).

Now, I pretty sure I´ve read and heard of far more, but these are the ones I´ve picked up ^^

Sometimes I feel that the prinicples of creating focalpoints, and those of creating aerial perspective conflict. Like for example, the contrast should get less and less the further away you get, but what if I want to create a focalpoint far back? And say I want to give it high contrast to attract the eye.( maybe I should use another method?) Can I do that, since the contrast needs to get less far away? My problems here, as you said, get very apparent in image 4, where the foreground and the middleground-castle have the same value! What I´m saying is that I´m having some difficulties applying the principles of both. Do you have any general advice on the matter, or is it more, case to case?

General questions

- I need to wary my shapes more, check!, but I´m not sure with what you mean when you say "Think big, little and small". (critique of image 2.) Could you explain that a little bit more?
*EDIT found this link: http://www.neilblevins.com/cg_education/primary_secondary_and_tertiary_shapes/primary_secondary_and_tertiary_shapes.htm

- As you said in image 7, 3 focalpoints are better than 2 or 4. I don´t know why, could you explain?

- In critique of image 8, you said that I should let the circlepattern spiral out a bit more, golden spiral like. What is "golden spiral like"?



Thank you again for the in depth critique, and I hope my questions aren´t too stupid :S

I´m going to go ahead and start with sketchup asap! Seems simpler and more intuitive than Maya :D

Um, should I fix the environments I posted? Jason Manley wrote somewhere that you should never leave an image if you know there´s something wrong with it. I´m guessing I´d have more fun doing some new ones, with your critique in mind ^^. But maybe I´d learn more fixing these ones first. What do you think?

Oh and Danomight, cool concept. I´m looking forward to seeing it rendered!

I´ll be back soon with a mockup in 3d!

Peace.

[Idiot Apathy]

Thought I can not pretend to fully understand the under workings of aerial perspective I can share my thoughts. I group the majority of the effects into one simple guideline; The further the distance the lesser the contrast. Yet this, like many other such guidelines in art is confusing as it complete relative. To expand let's start with value, saturation and hue - in other words, color. If you took a photograph of a dull red flag at distance of 10 feet, 100 feet and 1000 feet and provided that the lighting was generally the same in each position the end results would each be vastly different. Now repeating the experiment if you took a very vibrant red flag and placed it next to each of these duller red flags - it would have more contrast, in this case saturation - than your dull flag in each position. When you use the guideline; The further the distance the lesser the contrast - be sure and factor in your local color. Next we will expand upon edges - again if we took something with softer edges, perhaps a tree canopy - and set it up at 10ft, 100ft and 1000ft the edges would get softer and softer. If we did the same with say, a building - the edges would still get softer and softer the further back; but they would still be harder than those of the tree.

To answer your question about creating focal points - it is again all bundled up into contrast, a term not exclusive to color. It's the juxtaposition of different types of shapes and local colors in combination with lighting that will allow you create focal points where you want them regardless of proximity to the viewer. I suggest you look at a lot of the Visual Development artists for film, these guys have it down.
Use the guideline, The further the distance the lesser the contrast in order to push everything even further.

Big, Little, Small:
An easy way to give your shapes variety is to think of them in 3 categories, big, little and small. Check to see if you have a good amount of each of them within the overall painting and within specific details. The pattern of 1 2 3, big little small doesn't usually appeal to me - I like to mix it up a bit, small big little etc. etc. Of course man-made objects/subjects usually are but not necessisarily so - very regular and predictable, orderly I suppose.

Focal Points:
If you can imagine a ball bouncing between your focal points (though I think it is still best to have one that is dominant, even if just barely so). A ball that bounces between two goes back and forth between the same two points. It can be a little tiring and you don't cover too much ground on the journey this way. With three you get a very nice 1 2 3, 1 2 3, 1 2 3 and a pleasant journey around the canvas. 4 can be a little tiresome and extremely hard to manage. Too much going on. 1 is good too, as long as you accent it enough.

Fixing past images:
Good quote! I interpret that in my own words as saying that learning from what is wrong is one of the best ways to learn what is right. (Just maybe don't take that advice in life, let's stick to art). As long as you still have the motivation never leave a good learning opportunity behind. Anyhow, after your 1.5 exercise this is precisely what I had in store for you, revisiting a few of these. Cheers!

[Archerion]

You guys are doing a great job.

[Danomight]

Howdy guys :) Lots of great info in both of your replies concerning Johannes' work, keep it coming!

Sooooo, my current assignment was to give that referenced drawing a go with some paints. Right off the bat I realized my drawing was inconsistent the image I referenced, so once I had it scanned in, I moved it around a little til it looked a little more correct.

For the paints, I started similar to my last attempt, throwing in flat colors initially and followed up with a third layer for painting over everything. I did rely a bit on the reference for establishing landmarks at first, and also correctly rendering certain areas, but I tried to eyeball the color as best as possible.

Tom, do you have any suggestions for areas that tend to muddy up? One area I find this happening a lot in my studies, as well as this image, is the neck area. I haven't quite figured out how to create the feeling of depth or shadow in there without producing this sort of unfocused and muddy area. I also noticed the same problem around her stomach.

[Idiot Apathy]

Danomight: Get to this in the next day, just needed to write up an exercise for a new mentee addition the the thread. (P.S. Looks awesome btw)

Henchmen:
Pick and image from the link below and do a 1:1 copy side by side on the same canvas. I suggest you put the photograph on top of everything and then lock that layer. I also suggest that you use just the round brush at a variety of hardness settings to suit different purposes. Set the brush up to also utilize pressure sensitive opacity and flow. I recommend that unless vary familiar with painting with manual opacity that you keep it at 100%. Flow you might drop down to 40% when you need a little more control.

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1657126&postcount=22

Sorry, this is put together a little quickly in the time I had before bed - but I knew you were eager to get rolling. Let me know what if anything isn't clear. Don't sweat it if we have to wait till later tomorrow ok? Cheers.

[kaktuzlime]

Finally my master thesis is done! Seems like I´ll be graduating within the week ^^. I had to spend these last two days finishing up on the details and fixing mistakes, hence my slow speed with assignment 1.5.

Anyway, here is my simple mockup of the cityenvironment in sketchup. such a neat program!! It´s almost as breathtaking as Alchemy (http://al.chemy.org/) :D. I had some trouble thinking away the controls I usually use in Maya, but otherwise it was a very pleasant experience.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c308/kaktuzlime/mockupscene5.jpg

It´s almost 3 am here now, and I´m about to collapse from exhaustion, I´ll post my thoughts and what I´ve learned on perspective when I wake up, and reply to your wonderful reply Tom.

Peace.

[Henchman 21]

Its me! joined this mentoring group yesterday and started assignment one--a grayscale drawing of an eye using a photo ref. heres what ive got so farrrrrr
letsss keep goinnnn

my rough drawing
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a231/poladile/tutorial1.jpg

and then some flow reduced lines to let it blend a bit more...too sketchy?

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a231/poladile/tutorial1-2.jpg

looking forward to finishing this and moving along!

2 am!

[kaktuzlime]

So, I´m getting more aquainted with sketchup. I´m working on getting Components together ^^.

Doing this mockup, it ocurred to me, that to acheive a good reult, there is no room for sloppiness with perspective. It shows so clearly. In addition, drawing a box is one thing, but it can easily get more complicated when dealing with more complex subjects (self evident, duh). Also, comparing 2 point perspective (as a camerangle in sketchup) with 3 point perspective, I found myself reaching the conclusion that 3 point perspective looks a helluva lot more realistic. The aerial perspective is also quite evident, and without it, a significant amount of depth is lost.

I really enjoy the intuitive nature of sketchup. Thanks for making me begin to learn it Tom ;). I can imagine how it speeds up the process of making architectural landscapes, and anything else mechanical-looking. Perhaps I´ll model a rifle :D

Oh yeah Tom, your reply to my questions was great. Very infomative, and easy to understand. Thanks!

Hi Henchman 21! I´m glad to see you´ve joined us :D

I´m ready and waiting to get started on assignment 2. What´ve you got in mind?

Now to watch some soccer. Sweden is playing Greece. Keeping my fingers crossed!

[Idiot Apathy]

Henchmen: Dan, these are rad dude. Love the rendering techinque. However for the purpose of the exercise and pushing you in a little bit different of a direction, let's go for much better stroke economy on the next one; it looks like it took you quite awhile with so many strokes. Try and use the biggest brush possible to cover as large a shape as possible and then blend. Drawing accuracy wise I think you are a little large than the reference and the shape is as well. I think you have too much white of the eye on the left side and I'd like to see more care taken with the tear duct. Eyebrows could blend a little better, it's really best not to render individual hairs for the most part. The shape is a little off too, it needs to dip a bit more above the eye and curve a little higher on the top right. Value could also be better on the top right to the end of the eyebrow. Eyelashes are a tricky problem too, Top looks pretty good, bottom could blend better and be softer (not a coiincidence). Overally dude, really love the feel of your painting, just like I said - sometimes it's not about the painting and more about what you're trying to learn. Ready to do another? I'd like to see you do one of the noses before we do a full face ok? Let me know at any time if you feel a little burned out or are losing motivation - it's much better to cool down than to breakdown. :)

Johannes: Glad you are having fun in sketchup and glad my rambles made some sort of sense dude.

Johannes Assignment #2 -
Part one:
Pick your 2 favorite thumbnails and tell me why they are successful and why you like them.
Pick your 2 least favorite thumbnails and tell me why the aren't successful and why you disklike them.
Part Two:
Will follow after you have completed part one :)

[Henchman 21]

OK! thanks for the crits and im off on the nose and maybe another eye? i will push to make these more accurate! expect them this eveninggggg

[kaktuzlime]

Assigment 2, part 1

My 2 favourite:

#5 (House at night). I believe this environment´s got a pretty decent mood to it. I like the house, the lighting it emits, and the foreground character who helps convey a story. In addition I think I managed to express depth pretty ok here :D

#7 (man walking through desert). I´ve achieved depth in this one. I think the image tells a story, the colours are ok, and the shapes on the foreground "stucture" are fairly interesting ^^

2 Least favourite:

#9 (weird boxshaped things). This is dull! I think the perspective on the boxshaped things should be accurate, but it´s soooo uninteresting overall! Bad depth, weird ground texture, says absolutely nothing.

#6 (the wall). Once again, very boring. Sloppy perspective, horrible textures, bad shapes.

Peace.

[Idiot Apathy]

Johannes: Going to take an image from each category and have you work further on it.

#5: First of all convert the image into black and white, let's not spend our energy with color right now. I want you to take this image further. Your primary objectives are to increase the depth as much as you can without ruining the image. This will mean more defined shapes and lighting, more planes and more polished rendering.
#9: I want you to render these exact shapes out in SketchUp and find a new composition that makes it interesting. Try to keep the original structure intact but if it's too lacking feel free to add some minor story elements (figures perhaps). Actually now that I think about it - I'd like to see at least 5 compositions that you feel are interesting.

Danomight: We talked on IM, if you don't mind could you summarize what we talked about for anyone who might follow along?

Henchmen: We talked on PM, we're good.

[kaktuzlime]

This is going to require some work on my part! I like it :D

I´m going away this weekend, seeing old friends and family and such. Probably won´t be able to get started until monday.

Peace.

[Henchman 21]

whoa and sorry for the delay. heres a noseeeee
tried to focus less on the lines and more on shapes/larger brushes.
crit crit crit
whats next??!?
pumped.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a231/poladile/tutorial2-1.jpg

[kaktuzlime]

Hey Danomight, I´d love to hear what you and Idiot Apathy discussed! :D

Alright, so I think I´m done with the first of the two images. I tried to push the depth, hope it shows ^^

Things I set out to do:
- Define Lighting better
- More rendering
- More planes
- Different angles on planes
- Accentuated a path, to further increase depth
- Blurry edges far away
- Aerial perspecive on house
- More interesting character ^^

New:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c308/kaktuzlime/enviro6done.jpg
Old:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c308/kaktuzlime/enviro6.jpg

I´ll get the other one finished ASAP.

Peace.

[Idiot Apathy]

Henchman: Nice dude! A few things; If I didn't mention it before, make sure your working size is at least 200% the size you want to output. You'll get much better looking results and you will have "room" to detail if necessary. Your drawing is off a little bit, not too much but enough that if it was a full face the likeness might not be quite there. Don't hesitate to use plumb or level lines measured from the reference or any other sort of measurement you can, (though perhaps just shy of using having the reference over the study, that's too easy ;) ). It looks like you are still using a fairly small brush, go biggerrrrr. If need be perhaps do a drawing and then switch to a large brush, whatever works for you - just keep efficiency in mind. Give your edges more love, they are just about as important as it gets. Values are pretty good dood.

I did a quick PO:
394383
Quick PO, Yours, Reference

Anyhow dude, you feeling ready for a full face? Or are you a little tired of this exercise? Motivation is pretty important for learning, so if you feel like doing something else just say :)

Johannes: Looks good dude, I'll try and crit it up tomorrow. Cheers!

[Henchman 21]

ok! if its cool im gonna try a mouth first using the crits from the nose, then ill do the full face? rraadddddd

[Henchman 21]

actually, if you dont mind, could you give me some quick tips in the thread for brushsize/harness that you used on that last edit? i think my big issue is in the lack of blending on my versions. thatd be a big help!

[Danomight]

Howdy :) Yeah, so I'm house sitting for two more days, then I'll be back in the friendly confines of my own scanner equipped home. Sorry, I'm too lazy to drive across town just to scan and gas costs way too much :(

Johannes and Henchman- Hey, great work guys, coming along nicely!

Well, Tom an I decided that it would be good to continue on with another character, but this time, I used the reference to a lesser extent. I referred to it for the pose and some facial features, but the costume was totally my own creation. I'll post the results when I'm back home in a couple of days :P

[Idiot Apathy]

Hey Guys, going to need a few days before I can reply. Busy busy week.

[Henchman 21]

cool, ive been busy finishing up some penciled comission work so ill try and get some more of the studies online this weekend!

[kaktuzlime]

I did the second part of assignment 2. I hope I didn´t misunderstand.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c308/kaktuzlime/buildings_1.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c308/kaktuzlime/buildings_2.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c308/kaktuzlime/buildings_3.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c308/kaktuzlime/buildings4.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c308/kaktuzlime/buildings5.jpg

Peace.

[Henchman 21]

ok! heres the rough on my lips-- just did it, took about 40 minutes. It needs some smoothing and a few little adjustments, but i wanted to post cause its been like..well over a week since weve had any contact!!! ill post the finished one tomorrow and then we can do the full face? maybe? i wanna get back on the ballllllll

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a231/poladile/lips.jpg

-dan

[Idiot Apathy]

Sorry Gents, been incredibily busy lately. Gah!

Johannes:
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1808037&postcount=59
Massive improvement dude, I think you hit everything I asked you do and very nicely at that. It's a great thumb. I did a real quick PO to push a few things but no further than I would most thumbnails. From here all that's left would be color and detail, but perhaps that's for another time.
406731

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1820346&postcount=66
Perfect dude. My intention on this exercise was to illustrate how composition can make the mundane interesting. Tell me, which 2 do you feel are the most successful and why? Don't be afraid to push composition even more obtuse and abstract if you can get away with it. If your job is simply visual interest, go nuts.

Henchmen:
Hey dude, did you figure out what you needed to with brushes?
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1827476&postcount=67
Looking good dude, values are good but drawing could use just another ounce of care, especially the bottom lip. Edges however need the most work, but I think you said you are getting to that? Post it up when you are satisfied and I'll be better able to tell how you are doing :)

Danomigggggggght:
Busy with work I assume?

[kaktuzlime]

Thanks a bunch Tom! I learn so much from seeing that paintover. What was I thinking :D Lots of Ah-ha´s.

And damn, composition really makes a huge differnece. even a few uninteresting blocks can become intriguing ^^ I guess the ones I like most are 1 and 2, which is why I took them a bit further I guess, since they express scale the best.

Now, I´d want to learn more about edges, form description with tone, materials, local values an those kind of things. But if you have any other suggestions, anything you´d think was extra fun, I´d be all ears :D.

[Henchman 21]

OK, lips version 2. I think the bottom one could still use some work, but im eager to move onto the face. looking forward to your crits and advice before we move forward!!

Also, after doing this (mostly around the lips) im starting to feel more confidant with the broader, larger brushes, and getting more comfortable with adjusting flow settings accordingly.
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a231/poladile/lipstut.jpg

-dan

[kaktuzlime]

When do we get started again mate?

[Idiot Apathy]

Whooooooops, soon! Promise.

[kaktuzlime]

This is not soon *with tears in the voice, runs away... crying... (kinda;P)

[Idiot Apathy]

Ya sorry I lied, ran out of time before my trip to comic con. :O And then I was at comic con...

Good lord, been a few weeks. Sorry guys. Soon!

[Idiot Apathy]

Henchman:
Sorry this took so long, you know how life gets. Hope you are still around.
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a231/poladile/lipstut.jpg
425263
Edges are the biggest thing that needs work. You have a sweet rendering style and you're doing great with posterization but for learning purposes it's important to try and work without styles so that you can better incorporate it into styles. Edges are so incredibly important for form among other things. Bust out a softer edged brush or just caress your edges with opacity/flow.

I think you could also benefit from leaving the details out until the very end (Hair, highlights and such). Work general to specific, large to small; the big shapes show the form, you have to have them first otherwise the details will just feel flat.

Anyhow, ready for a full head?



Johannes: Hrm, crap dude. That's all some very broad stuff, let's get more specific. What questions do you have about edges? Materials? Form - etc etc. Bust some out and let's go from there. Sorry for the wait, bleh. As an alternative you could post something you are working on and having trouble with - just general PO's and such you know?

[Henchman 21]

aye! ive got some comission work to do, but ill get a head done before or during the weekend!
thanks for the tips!

[kaktuzlime]

Whoops, now I´m the absent one, aren´t I ^^. Been helluva buzy with some freelance work, just putting food on the table. A bit stressful, but fun.

So, as an assignment I´m going to draw a character, and take it step by step, and maybe we can disuss each step with PO;s and comments, whatever´s convenient for you ^^

The basic concept is "Alien Queen of Fashion". I´ll post the first sketch tomorrow!! Promise.

Kind wishes!

[kaktuzlime]

Ok, so I did draw ^^ Not an alien fashion queen though. Damn. I found out my misconceptions about form are quite severe :( Bleh! I should totally do a few reffed faces! How about it Thom?

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c308/kaktuzlime/Untitled-4.jpg

*shakes head.

[Idiot Apathy]

Sorry dude, this has been a long time coming again.

Like you said, not much in line with your concept of alien fashion queen so I'm not 100% sure what I should - can critique. You mentioned trouble with form - but I think you've got some really great form here. The size of each eye seems a bit different, but it's not that bothersome. The lines you've put through her face at times read as on top of the surface and at other times like they are indentations. In anycase, I'd like to see a little more design/role to them.

How would you like to take this further? How would you like to proceed with the mentoring? I think Dan and Henchman have disappeared, unless I hear otherwise I think it's time to start up a new one, with you included of course.

[Danomight]

I'm still alive!!!

Here's a quick sketch page from my little book. I've been wanting to participate in the weekly activities, so I thought I'd give the CHOW a shot.
The current topic is Scheherazade, - "Heroine and teller of the 1001 tales in the "One Thousand and One Arabian Nights""

I'll probably work out the composition and more character details tomorrow, but this was just some fun sketching on the topic :)

So yeah, feel free to give some crits and thoughts once I get a little further into it Tom :)

[Idiot Apathy]

Ok, stream of consciouness here. My apologies if it sounds harsh, definitely not my intent.

Costume is the best part, some really cool stuff going on - though I feel it could really tell a lot more about her background and role.

Her head is really tiny and her shoulders would still be too wide with a larger head I think. Her arms feel a bit detached as well - actually her top half feels detached from her bottom. You might use some ref from those fashion sites I sent you to get you rolling next time doodsmith.

Her pose is fine for straight concept, which honestly I think would be a good thing to stick with for a study. If you want to do more of an illustration try and insert some narrative into the pose.

I like the head on the right. Has expression and feels a bit ethnic. Tattoo's are nice too.

Uhhhhh, that's all I can think of right now. Need sleep.

[kaktuzlime]

Hi Tom! :D I´m happy to see you!

Im sorry about that image. I see several mistakes in it, and I cant remember what I wanted you to critisise. I´d prefer to just leave it. I don´t want anything to do with it anymore^^. Its oooglie. Thank you for the comments though, and I´ll make sure to keep them in mind next time :D

I think starting anew would be a good thing. Feels like we´ve kinda slowed down too much in here. If you started a new one I´d be thrilled and honored to be a part of it. Having you as a mentor has been extremely inspiring and I´ve learned so much! I thank you from the bottom of my heart ^^

And I was hired by a game development studio. yay ^^ Can´t say which one yet though, as I´m under an NDA. Been buzy these last months working for them, which is the prime reason I´ve been very inactive on this forum. But no matter how much work I´ve got on my hands, I will always take the time for assigments and beeing mentored.

[Idiot Apathy]

Okaaaaaaay, Imma start up a new 'episode' then. I think you are both very busy kicking ass at your new jobs right? If you can seriously make the time to do weekly exercise let me know in the next day or two.

Hope I was of some help :)

[Erishaham]

Hi, Id.

Are you starting a new thread/mentoring session? I learned of a technique where a tonal painting is made and then through use of Color layers, a b&w image can be painted. I can't seem to make it work. I'm weak in a lot of areas, but applying color seems to be my worst enemy. My favorite type of cake is rum.