Chow 112 :: VOTING :: Grandma The Serial Killer

[S.C. Watson]

FINALS ONLY
-=ROUND 112=-
-=GRANDMA THE SERIAL KILLER=-

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http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii293/chowarchive/CHOW-LINES/CHOW-LINES-MEDUSA.jpg
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IF WE HAVE MORE THAN 45 ENTRIES - NOT ALL ENTRIES WILL MAKE IT TO POLL
A MAXIMUM OF 45 ENTRIES WILL BE ACCEPTED IN THREE CATEGORIES:
CATEGORY 1 - Beginner's category
CATEGORY 2 - Intermediate's category
CATEGORY 3 - Advanced's category

ACCEPTANCE TO POLL WILL BE BASED ON THREE CRITERIA:
1: DID THE ARTIST FOLLOW THE BRIEF? (allowance for creative takes will be made).
2: IS THE PIECE ARTISTICALLY SOUND? (Is the illustration "finished?" - did the artist pay attention to anatomy, perspective, other fundamentals?).
3: IS THIS ILLUSTRATION THE BEST ONE? (reserved for rounds with a large amount of entries).

Depending on round turn out, the number of accepted entries in a given Category may vary from round to round. For example, if only 5 Advanced entries are made, that leaves EXTRA 10 slots open for Intermediate and Beginner.

Only Advanced Entries will be accepted for the the thumbs on the Queens Roster. If no Advanced entries are available for a round, then it will fall to the Intermediates. If no Intermediate are available, then it shall fall to the Beginners.

For further information on how this works, please see this post (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1630823#post1630823). (Still being updated at this time).
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SUBMITTING YOUR ENTRY:
1: You must submit ONE full sized image.
2: Make sure your name and CHOW # are EASILY READABLE on your entry.
3: Use the Standard format (Below);

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i222/ChowPics/frame.jpg
:right: PLACE THE IMAGE IN A FRAME WITH YOUR NAME/TOPIC
:right: SAVE YOUR FILE IN THE FOLLOWING FORMAT:
Chow##_Nickname
example: "CHOW#100_Oregano.jpg"

THE REST IS EASY:
1: No comments before poll is set.
2: Sit back and enjoy the show.
3: Good luck to all.

[candyjanney]

Despite Grandpa's "accident" that left him without a head a few years ago, Granny still takes the time to dig him up every year for the holidays..

I wanted my submission to be as "messy" and "sketchy" as possible to keep with the eerie aspect of it.

[mayk]

Final ;)

[Sir Bret]

Come visit Granny Beka - though she's usually couped up in bed, she cooks great quiches when she's out, she has some lovely geraniums and rhododendrons - but unfortunately, once you visit, there's no guarantee you'll be leaving again without tasting some of her homemade 'sweet goodbye-pie'. No, it's not a pastry-based delicacy; it's usually a knife in the back... if you're son-in-law, it's something even worse.

[Windsrock]

There is something evil in those eyes...

[Takeda11]

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/184/chow112hk8.jpg

[safesheep]

Final!

[Rodimus25]

Done.

[scorge]

First CHOW. Nice to be here with you guys.:yayca:

[corspufo]

Final

Miffy will ONLY eat the freshest meat, and you're looking mighty fresh. [[[[[

[RevoLverZ]

Grandma Odette , is the leader of a dangerous gang of grannies that terrorise the streets of Bronx , New York. During her activity , she managed to kill some of the milkmans and postmans that didn`t do their duties like she wanted.
In this scene she just caught the boy that broke her kitchen window with the ball.

[Pat Gillette]

Enjoy.

[Chuck,mate.]

Chow 112 - Grandma The Serial Killer
http://img27.picoodle.com/img/img27/4/4/6/f_chow112chucm_02463b1.jpg


;)
P.

[IanMc]

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii6/IanMcC_bucket/chow112ianmc-1.jpg

Granny's been busy with the pickling again...

[OYO!]

http://www.oyoz.com.au/images/chow_grandmakilla_web.jpg

[skorpi]

For a clean city

[Leysan]

340910

[flashrabbit]

Final

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p97/DkJunior/chow112_flashrabbit.jpg

"Behind that somewhat calm exterior hides her true face.
From her shadowy depth, her alter ego creeps up on you.
And before you know it, crack! The sound of your broken spine echoes down the streets.
Dont let the cookies fool you."

[Studio Colrouphobia]

Just in time...

[Tommoy]

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t19/Tommoy/CHOW112DcK.jpg

[Nightblue]

Been busy lately and didn't see the topic till today, but I just had to join :)

"My, she is so much like my sweet grandma!" you thought. Then you turned around.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd214/lxc2000/chow112_pv.jpg

[t i m]

Fin. Not my usual style, but I had a fun time with this one :)

[Bryno]

FINAL Serial Killer Grandma :)

Wow the send-ins so far are amazing! Good work you guy's!

Timothy - I love the expression. Killer!

Oyo - Nice painting style... very inpressive, holds alot of emotion.


Http://www.brynodesign.com/Bryno_FinalKillerGranny.jpg


"Oh hello dear... How nice of you to bring your fiance around... I'd like to meet her!"

[Dandilion]

My very first CHOW! Serial Killer Granny! :P

Tried to get her looking as innocent as possible by keeping the expression kinda like an illustration for a children's book.

[Matthew Campbell]

http://xs126.xs.to/xs126/08151/chow_112_matthew_campbell_2262.jpg

I wasn't quite able to steer this image to where I had envisioned, didn't have much time for the colouring process. There's always next time.

It was a fun topic...

[Amedyr]

Woot, my second Chow (the first one was quite painful, let's not go there), and I feel I have a half-decent entry! :mod:

Thank you very much for those who helped me, I really feel I have improved and that wouldn't have happened without you :)

[timothee]

Finale
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r146/timdeplace/CHOW112_Timothee.jpg

[snootchy]

not quite done but started late so can't complain nice job everybody

[zachtcox]

loosely based on my own Grandma...

[ibrahx]

Hey great stuff here! this is my first Chow! her name is thelma! she actually exist long time ago in my family! well this is my tribute to her!:hugsmile:

[gep]

Nice work everyone. Here is mine, I'd like to put more time in to it and I probably will finish it off more later.

http://www.conceptart.com.au/caorg/gep_chow112_thumb.jpg

http://www.conceptart.com.au/caorg/gep_chow112.jpg

[Markito]

This is my final

[S.C. Watson]

No entries past this mark.

~Oreg.

[Studio Colrouphobia]

Voted for OYO! this time around.

Loads of people doing gore this time, even though it stated in the brief to not do gore...

[Chate Noire]

Voted for:

zachcox - Even without the blood, this ol' gal sure reads "serial killer", and frighteningly enough, I can also picture her as someone's grandma =) Cool entry (and her hair is so fluffy too).

IanMc - She's tough and scary, but I can imagine her rummaging in her purse for a decade-old candy. Love the tattoos - cheesy, but they work :), and she reminds me a little of Kidby's Nanny Ogg, which is always a plus in my book.

Chuck,Mate - huge arms, tiny slippered legs and blood stains on her flower night gown - if that's not a serial killer granny, I don't know what is. The psycho-glasses are a brilliant addition.


mayk, I like your rendering and color, and the one on the left is a great character - if you'd only found a way to incorporate "granny" into that one you'd have definitely gotten my vote.

Markito, really cute illustration with a cool style, and would have gotten my vote if the grandma had had a little bit more "serial killer" in her without the aid of the background and scene.

[flashrabbit]

And now for some comments.

candyjanney - I like the elflike ears :) Love the smirking smile.

mayk - Strong facial structure, nice light.

Sir Bret - Spider shadow ;O Very creepy lady. Bed looks a little short.
Her body volume under the blanket looks off, maybe it´s the feet.
Really like the puppet like style.

Windsrock - Should've used the same lines on the face as with the body,
Feels kinda weird like two parts. Or maybe if you have thin lines
where more light is and the thicker where the shadows are.
And some more shadow under her head.

Takeda11 - Hatchet and a shotgun. talk about overkill ;P
Maybe som more shadow under her belly or make the stomach go
over her skirt.

safesheep - Love the photos. Her skin looks a little like leather.
So is she like Kathy Bates in Misery?
Kidnaps people and makes them think that she is helping them.
And then Bang they're dead.

rodimus25 - Nice angle. Her dress looks somewhat transparent, like she has
her nightie on.

scorge - Lol at the sign, looks like heavy work.
Her left hand looks a little big.

corspufo - That's one crazy dog. I guess she woke up on the wrong side of
the bed? Or he did, that's why he is in bucket ;P

RevoLverZ - A hand grenade as a neckless? Seems kinda dangerous.
I would love to see this in color. Pink glasses maybe?

Pat Gillette - Its hard to see what's in the shadow. A knife and a skull?

Chuck,mate. - Really nice, those are som strong arms and I dont mean the
axe ;P Nice shadows

IanMc - Cool tatoos. Nice skin color. I quess it's two bikers in the jars?
Proberly said something about her bike.

OYO! - Very witch like appearance. The skull on the package is nice touch but
it's a little to dark. Maybe it should glow a little?
I would like to see the front hand a little more defined.
The one holding the knife looks more defined.

skorpi - Nice storytelling touch on her sweater.
The twisting angle looks a little weird though.

Leysan - I hope she gets whoever she lures in to finish painting her fence
before she axe's them to leave.

Studio Colrouphobia - The only one caught. Love the prison photo, nice
touch.

Tommoy - Well I guess she's a widow now? What's for dinner? Stew?

Nightblue - She looks calm. I hope it wasn't little red riding hood that came
with the basket.
And ended up being the victim of a wolf in sheep's clothes ;P

timothy - Looks like she's cornered. It was selfdefence I swear, no need to
scream bloody murder.
Love the glasses and the slippers :)

Bryno - Where is she sitting? It would be cool if she sat in someone's window
and the victim is reaching up towards the window frame. Looks like
some of the sky is outside the black almost in the left corner.

Dandilion - She looks very innocent. My, what big eyes you have, and what a
big knife.

Matthew Campbell - Would love to see this finished.

Amedyr - Mmm, poison cookies.. Nice kitchen, it would be fun to see grandma
in the same rendered style as the kitchen.
You know without the outlines, or the other way around.

timothee - Nice design. The backwall feels empty. I think with the way she is
bending there would be a little more shadow where the knee is.

snootchy - One more I would like to see finished. Is she in a hospital or a
asylum? You've really captured the face

zachtcox - How many pinheads did she knock down? The hair due looks like an
wig. Might be because there is nothing down her sides of the ear.

ibrahx - Somewhat big chin, looks like she has been at the dentist.
Crazy look she is giving with her eyes.

gep - Very 50s style. Poor kid doesn't know what's coming.

Markito - Ouch! It's acid rain ;P Nice mood in the picture. Is that a skull flower
in her hair?

[skorpi]

@flashrabbit: Thank you :)


candyjanney: She's eerie. She seems to live in a dusty old house. good work.

Mayk: I live your painting style, great artwork. Nice details, they tell more than a painted scene.

Sir Bret It remember Little Red Riding Hood. I like the spider shadow. But what's that in the shado of her bed?

Windsrock Not bad, I like her facial expression. But it could be worked out more and there are some anatomy mistakes.

Takeda11 She looks like a cartoon character.

safesheep She's eerie and looks a bit crazy. There are some anatomy mistakes, but nice work.

rodimus25 I like it, your granma looks something between nice and evil, good work.

scorge I like your idea, nice slogan

corspufo I like her pose and her facial expression. Great work.

RevoLverZ Not bad, but it doesn't follow the brief. I like her necklace

Pat Gillette I like it, because I had to look twice, good idea. her arms are to short but good work.

Chuck,mate. Great painting and interesting scene. Why is the axe clean?

IanMc Great Pic, I like it. I like her smirk

OYO! Great painting, great work

Leysan I wrote already, it's subtle and I like it for that.

flashrabbit I like your concept and your panting is nice.

Studio Colrouphobia I like your painting style. The criminal photos lokks a bit male.

Tommoy I like the scene. I think the light could be clearer but good work. A bit bloody for the brief pherharps.

Nightblue She's lovly, I like the warm colors, good work.

t i m o t h y I love the design, this bunny slipper are great.

Bryno I ask me how she knitts with the knives.

Dandilion Nice, pherharps you could work with more light and shadows. Now it looks a bit flat.

Matthew Campbell I like the athmosphere and how you work with the light.

Amedyr She's so sweet, I like it. Only the smoke could be worked out a bit more.

timothee Great work. The glases are cool

snootch I like her face I like to see this finished.

zachtcox Great painting and nice idea.

ibrahx Her expression is eerie. There are some anatomy mistakes, her left arm looks stiff and her shoulders are to narrow.

gep I love it, great work

Markito Nice idea and great colors. I like it.

[Studio Colrouphobia]

Skorpi- Actually... it's left for viewer interpretation. A wig was used in the non-mugshot, and I wanted that to be perfectly clear..

flashrabbit- Thanks :D

[corspufo]

I did not realize that we could do multiple votes. Damn, sorry guys! But my vote went to Mayk: great rendering style, sweet lighting, and eerily creepy with the tie down blond wig. Great work. Also mucho props to those who gave everyone feedback, it's always nice to see your name in bold. I'll make the time to give my feedback to everyone as well.

[Amedyr]

Thank you flashrabbit and skorpi for the input!!

Oh yeah, I can see now that she looks a bit "out of place", with the different rendering for the background... and I -would- have worked some more on the smoke, if I had fallen into a wormhole and Sunday had a few more hours *was feverishly working on the piece until the very last moment* lol

This was lots of fun! I'm excited for the next round! :D

[Nerahla]

I am remarking on the ones I voted on. As you can see, I votevotevote like mad! :P


markito - loved the cartoon colors and fantasy nature of it

mayk - excellent execution ;) no pun intended

skorpi -- loved the humor and perspective

Timothee - the expression on her face made me laugh out loud -- also love the whole "baking cookies" thing.. heheh

Tommoy - The creepiest one out of the bunch IMO - this is clear to me a 'Grandma Serial Killer" or just one sick broad.

Gep - LOVED this one, because the hand out of the pot was just awful - made me think of Hansel and Gretel.

Snootchy - this one is /great/ look at that face. Such perfect expression -- I don't care if the rest of her isn't as refined, it doesnt need to be. Her face and hands say it all.

timothy - HAH! Awesome - though I daresay she looks a bit more like she is defending herself than on a murderous rampage. The bunny slippers won me, though.

JanMe (?? font is too clunky to read) -- anyway this really reads well to me - very greasy white trash grandma going on, love it!

Matthew Campbell - wow, probably the most well designed piece of the lot - very cool and current.

Oyo -- LOVE the jack the ripper/mary poppins thing you got going on here --- I felt like this was a comic book villain "Grandma The Serial Killa" awesome job :)



Well done all!

[Ridz]

i actually just voted for one this time...
and that was for gep! this was exactly the kind of thing i imagined when i read the brief. happy little picture.. until you notice the hand in the soup. nice and subtle, i love it!

[gep]

Rodimus25: Awesome work mate, great style, face and the transparency in her dress rocks. Maybe looses a bit of form in her hands/fingers

mayk: Inspirational piece, faces have so much character

corspufo: She has a lot of character over all I thought but I think her foot lets her down. Might just need to be detailed in a bit more.

IanMc: Great work, nice style and character.

flashrabbit: Thanks, yep went for subtlety. I like the effect of your evil grandma, looks good and it works.

skorpi: Thanks

Nerahla: Thanks, I actually did have the story of Hansel and Gretal in the back of my mind while I was drawing it, but I couldn't remember the name of it. (duh) So thanks.

Ridz: Thanks, yeah I wanted to get a nice, sweet feel but have something that not quite right to darken it a bit.

[Rodimus25]

flashrabbit:thanks, yeh kinda went for the bloody nightgown look:p
skorpi: : Thanks, glad her expression does have the ability to switch between the 2:)
Gep: Nice one Nate, really liked your entry man:P Thanks for the feedback to.
Markito: Nice colour balance you have happening man, finally got u to do something here, now keep submitting:)
Chuckmate:Thats a nice topheavy grandma there, love it:)

[Chuck,mate.]

thanks for the votes and comment guys!
not too bad for a doodle... :tihi:

voted for (I`m not too fond of the multiple choice voting thing... it kinda defies the point IMO. :) ) -
zachtcox - damn fine piece. the blood on that bowling-ball carrier is intense and really well done.

good round.

cheers,
Patri.

[t i m]

Great Job everyone! Now for some crits/comments:

candyjanney: I really like her expression, truly sinister in a subtle way. I would have worked on those midtones a bit more. The piece seems a bit over contrasted. When giving a piece volume as opposed to going from light to dark try to think of it in terms of saturated vs. non saturated. So instead of going from purple to white on her shirt try going from purple to a lighter shade of purple to maybe pinkish/purple.

mayk: Love this! Definetly one of the best entries this week. Not too much to crit, love the side by side comparision of good granny vs bad granny.

Sir Bret: Nice lighting, watch your anatomy and perspective though. Seems a bit off. Also wehat's with the robot parts next to the bed? As a viewer I'm a bit confused.

Windsrock: Whoa turn down the background! Nice pic of granny but the background is distracting.

Safesheep:Liking the monochromatic color scheme. Gives the piece that dated look. Granny however seems a bit lost. She certainly doesn't seem capable of orchestrating mass killings. In fact she probably isn't capable of going to the bathroom by herself, lol! Loving the wallpaper and photos though, great details!

rodimus: Was my second favorite pic of the week, compostion was great, lighting great, overall an excellent finshed complete entry. The mood really creates anticipation and interest. Well done!

scorge: Good rendering, nice pic! Although at a glance nothing really says serial killer to me. It's only after analyzing aspects of the piece like the sign and what's in the pockets of her apron do I realize something is awry.

corspufo: Whoa Granny is insane! Chainsaws buckets full of body parts, nice pic! Gory? I would say so. The dog is histarical btw.

RsevoLverZ: That's one granny I would not want to mess with! Seems a bit too bad ass for me though. I would say more vigilante than serial killer.

Pat Gillete: Well again we have nice dynamic lighting, but in trms of the topic I'm missing the whole serial killer aspect of the piece. Her expression seems a bit too nice, not enough, "hey I'm gonna cut you up and put you in my stew."

Chuck,mate: Amazing, your work is always a treat. Great image, great lighting, great composition, right up there with rodimus. A bit gory though with severed head.

IanMc: Sweeeet. Loving the tats and gritty feel to granny. She looks really tattered. The head's in the jar may be a bit big though?

Oyo: Awesome pic, dynamic lighting great job with the robes!

Leysan:: Good image, nice scene you created, I really had to strain to see the skeleton in the back almsot blends into the b/g.

Studio Colrouphobia I like the whole mug shot aspect of the pice, "case closed" nice pic.

Tommoy This piece screems "Sweeney Todd" love it!

Bryno:Piece a good punch to it, colors really pop! The skull necklace was a great touch!

Dandilion Unique style, alot of our granny's love the 60's galsses and seem to wield sharp objects. Granny tends to blend a bit into the b/g some.

Matthew Campbell Gorgeous piece, great style! Love the gritty nature of it. Also thought you did a great job with the topic. The blood on the dress hinting at something horrible has just happened. Well done!

Amedyr: More cookies, I'm likeing the aroma skull, nice touch. She seems a bit static though.

snootchy Is that a pillow? Wasn't quite sure. Good job on the face/expression.

zachtcox: Love the idea, great execution. Definetly a fan of the comic/cartoonish style.

Ibrahx:Cool piece, watch your anatomy though her head seems a bit small, or she has some serious cankles. She's a bit static. The expression on her face is classic. Reminds me of a mobster's mama, really conveys the sinsiter aspect of granny.

gep: Super piece! Very Rockwell Saturday Evening Post, but with an evil twist.

Markito: Definetly my favorite. The whole thing was executed flawlessy. It tells a story, compostion is great, lighting is fantastic, attention to detail is evident.

[Leysan]

candyjanney I like the expression on her face, she looks so pleased. I also like her hair and the dead head. What makes her a serial killer if she digs up the same head all the time?

mayk Love the rendering. What is it that attracts all the flies?

Sir Bret It reminds me a bit of a puppet theatre, like she is 3d and the other things are flat. I like that glowing stuff in the corner.

Windsrock XD the look on her face is cool

Takeda11 She reminds me of someone. Doesn't look too dangerous though, even with weapons.

safesheep I like the idea, would be great if it was more finished.

rodimus25 She looks nice and like a killer at the same time. I especially like the colors and the composition.

scorge love the boots and the instruments, they look so heavy. The background looks a bit flat though.

corspufo XD the dog is best and the expression on her face and the pose are priceless. From this one you'd want to run fast.

RevoLverZ a cool grandma for sure. I like that light coming from above.

Pat Gillette looks like there is a skull and a knife in the shadow, but I can't see it very well. The space between her and the lamp looks quite empty, I'd move the lamp a bit closer. I like the expression on her face.

Chuck,mate. I like the scene, the action of it.

IanMc Your's is the scariest for me. It looks so convincing with that dirty dress, old skin, no teeth. So that's something I could imagine seeing for real, but wouldn't like to :). The neck looks kinda strange.

OYO! I like it. The little hands are cute and the sticking out tooth is a nice detail. What is that crown for?

skorpi Thanks :)
I love the idea, the look of the granny totally fits with the motto on her shirt. Don't like the perspective of the door so much though.

flashrabbit Her "dark side" looks great. There is something strange going on with the wrists of the other one. Love the basket and the knife.
Finish painting the fence? Why waste paint on painting it from the inside? It's enough if it looks good from the outside :)

Studio Colrouphobia I like the idea. It's the opposite of what everyone else has done.

Tommoy lots of body parts, killer for sure

Nightblue I like how the upper right of the picture shows the nice side and the lower left the evil side. Especially like the basket, I don't understand what she is doing with it though.

t i m o t h y It looks like she is being attacked and not the other way round XD

Bryno nice style, the skull and the flower make an interesting combination.

Dandilion she looks very cute :)

Matthew Campbell Love the light and the furniture and the expression on her face. Would be great if it was finished.

Amedyr She reminds me of one of my grandmas XD. The smoke could use more work and the table seems kinda undefined compared to the floor.

timothee I like the idea and the grandma looks great. Her clothes look a bit unfinished though. I like the cookies better with new colors.

snootchy I like her expression, looks very convincing to me.

zachtcox scary, looks like she's got a few heads in her bag. The hair looks kinda solid, it's definitely not her own.

ibrahx those are some giant needles XD I like the light better in this version. It looks like her right cheek is swollen.

gep It looks like a children's book illustration. Something black humor like Max and Moriz. The hands sticking out of the pot make me laugh. The giant headed girl is scary. Love the dancing grandma and the hands coming from the pot XD

Markito Love the style. It doesn't look so much like a granny to me though.

[RevoLverZ]

it was a nice challenge. I learned a lot , the hours spent in photoshop.
I was quite dissapointed cuz I got no votes :(. I know my grandma did not reach all the requirements of this chow but I did my best on the graphic side.
There were a few goodlooking grandmas that I liked too, I will come back later with my opinions on each other drawing. I will come with some constructive critique.
Please come with critique for my drawing too, I`m quite new on this forum and I need some "Don`t do that when.... , Don`t put shadows like..., You should do... , or It`s a totally mess". Please :)

[scorge]

Damn, I feel like I had to vote too many times in this one! So much worthy work. Thanks to everyone for the comments especially as this is my first CHOW. I really appreciate the feedback and look forward to doing another one in the near future. Too much time spent in the COW has led me astray.

Great job everyone!

[snootchy]

Hey thanks all for the crits, I wish I had started this earlier, or even 2 more hrs woulda helped push the image but I will try to finish it up and post an update on a final image. Thanks again everyone (entries/voters) for participating in this CHOW!!!

Sketch Book (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=112991&page=3)

[Sir Bret]

The bigger image shows that it's a bunch of weapons in the corner of her bed; the description also helps.

[Amedyr]

Thanks t i m and Leysan for the critique! I completely agree and I'll work some more on the image.


RevolverZ - I think you could have worked some more on the details (her left hand, her hair)... Her lower legs also seem a bit too buff for a grandma. If that was your intention, you could age them by adding spots here and there (take a look at old people's skin, it usually has spots on it). I also suggest that you work the textures a bit more, set a bit more difference between fabric, skin, wood, etc...

[Sir Bret]

I think next time (AKA my Hitman) I'll have to present my work more clearly; I also had some issues with the perspective. I enjoyed the puppet-style creepy grandma, but I wasn't very pleased with it at the end. Hopefully I can rope in some votes with my Hitman-Raven, but looking at Einen's and others, I think they'll get them - because their designs are soooo good!