Chow 103 :: VOTE :: Evil Genie

[S.C. Watson]

FINALS ONLY
-=ROUND 103=-
-=EVIL GENIE=-

-------------
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii293/chowarchive/CHOW-LINES/CHOW-LINES-MEDUSA.jpg
-------------------
HONORABLE MENTIONS
These pieces did not make it to poll - mostly because of room.
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii293/chowarchive/CHOW%20103/HM/CHOW103_ManaburnJPG.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii293/chowarchive/CHOW%20103/HM/chow103_mrbo18.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii293/chowarchive/CHOW%20103/HM/chow-103-evil-genie.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii293/chowarchive/CHOW%20103/HM/chow103.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii293/chowarchive/CHOW%20103/HM/CHOW103_2100.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii293/chowarchive/CHOW%20103/HM/chow103_carnifex.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii293/chowarchive/CHOW%20103/HM/chow103_matsign.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii293/chowarchive/CHOW%20103/HM/chow103_megamax.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii293/chowarchive/CHOW%20103/HM/chow103_senira_01.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii293/chowarchive/CHOW%20103/HM/chow103_themissinglink.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii293/chowarchive/CHOW%20103/HM/CHOW1__103.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii293/chowarchive/CHOW%20103/HM/chow_103_yutani.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii293/chowarchive/CHOW%20103/HM/eugenie.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii293/chowarchive/CHOW%20103/HM/temp.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii293/chowarchive/CHOW%20103/HM/Chow103_Nutter.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii293/chowarchive/CHOW%20103/HM/CHOW103_Promethius.jpg

[thespianmonsalvo]

Here's my final piece. :D
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff11/thespianmonsalvo/CHOW103_thespianmonsalvo.jpg

[JessiBean]

:medusachow:

289079

[daestwen]

Here's mine.

http://www.daestwen.com/gallery_pics/genie.png

[KellyMan]

Well, here's mine ...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v390/kang3l/evilgeenie.jpg

[Goog]

weeee....

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b250/Googprod/geniecopy11.jpg

[Rodimus25]

:anime:
289215

Updated.

[carotello]

Here is my final, now for real. Thanks for the extension, Oregano.

[Chate Noire]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/chatenoire/CHOW103_ChateNoire.jpg

[hallo]

http://www.notmybiz.com/files/fb_portfolio/bilder/chow103_evilgenie_hallo.jpg

[Kian]

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7700/openjg2.jpg

[blumarling]

http://fc05.deviantart.com/fs22/f/2008/029/b/0/chow_103_evil_genie_by_blumarling.jpg

[Joey-b]

Here is my contribution
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/b-yeoj/CHOW103Joey-b.jpg

[timbot5000]

First one I've ever done .

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg246/Dezartfox/art%20work/chow103.jpg

[The Whistler]

I'm done too :)

289380

[Aly Fell]

To noodle or not to noodle, that is the question...

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/1047/chow103poshspiceyf1.jpg

[2ma2]

Wow, there's really some amazeing work presented there. I feel a bit ashamed of presenting my piece. I feel I more struggle to learn painting digitally rather than making proper art.
http://www.riotamot.com/dump/chow103_2ma2.jpg

[Promethius]

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u311/LoH_Promethius/CHOW103_Promethius.jpg

[Mikael Leger]

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i157/becard_photos/CHOW103_Becard.jpg

[jread]

*in a puff of smoke*
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/1502/chow103geniejreadlq2.jpg

[the shivaree]

here ya go

[dusty imp]

not terribly happy with it but gotta start somewhere right?

http://graphitehead.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/chow_103_yutani.jpg

[mickeymao]

http://www.garethhinds.com/ext_post/CHOW103_mickeymao_genie.jpg

[Slash]

Here's mine.

[alice_]

finally done with this now....

evil genie and generic male!

289653

[cowboy surfer]

291033

[Ryoken]

*insert self-deprecating comment here*
289670

[Senira]

Bam.

Edit: I just saw the no new entries post; I'm not sure if our new versions qualify as new entries or not, so here's my updated version, with a link to the pre-deadline one below it.

http://lh6.google.com/Kuzias/R6Ewd6c10rI/AAAAAAAAAEo/g4mRcVCoTO8/s800/chow103_seniral_03.jpg

http://lh3.google.com/Kuzias/R5031Kc10mI/AAAAAAAAAEA/rz_eqgOeQsI/s800/chow103_senira_01.jpg

[bukakeface]

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb263/bukakeface/CHOW103_Bukakeface.jpg

[ManaBurn]

The War Djinn was summoned by only the most foolish or desperate of individuals.

[Pseudocognition]

I'm going to attach it just in case Photobucket decides that I've violated more TOSs and replaces it with that shameful, shameful notice, but here's a link to the photobucket image (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/Felicific/CHOW103_Pseudocognition-1.jpg).

[ShockWave]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/mcpumper/genie-2.jpg

[Vorace]

wow again...great job everyone

[GeistDel]

Tread lightly in the desert brother...For the Djinn have made it their home. Many a man have lost their soul to these foul beings. It is with these creatures that temptation and damnation often walk side by side...
- Excerpt from the Arcanum Comprendum

[squidmonk3j]

here's mine:

[nickzorn]

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f47/johnnyveryscary/CHOW103_nickzorn.jpg

[Georgeous]

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/9204/chow103nissebulaif0.jpg

[smokenmirrors]

lil bit more polish...

[themissinglink]

holy shit, everyones stuff looks awsome. here is mine

edit-with the extended deadline i spent a few more hours on mine and fixed some stuff

[Chelette]

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a188/p0i5on/CHOW103_Chelette.jpg

[Yee]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/redread/CHOW103_Yee-3.jpg

[coldrum]

made some changes thanks to some crits esp. Rydel and JP.

[-Food]-]

hhmmmm nearly missed my own topic .... so many cool entries .....:blahblah:

update and thx for the help Rydel ...much appreciated

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb101/Food_00/Chow103Food.jpg

[Mirana]

289941

[2100]

ah....

[Mark Tarrisse]

Here's mine
290036

[grenogs]

just make sure your 3rd and final wish is to put her back where she belongs.

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x279/grenogs/evil-geaniefin2.jpg

[S.C. Watson]

DEADLINE EXTENSION BECAUSE OF FORUM ISSUES

WEDNESDAY JAN 30TH

Around 5pm Pacific.

So, if you feel you need to bump your entry a little, now's the time.

CHOW 104 will proceed as normal.

All the best,
~Oreg.

[Kailaan]

Here's mine.

[smugbug]

I'll go ahead and post today...not sure with our weather being all cold, white AND wet if I'll be able to post AT ALL after today!

ETA: Updated and FINAL! Thanks Oregano for the extension!

291248

[Splittingadams]

just under the original deadline... and it means good luck.

great work so far!

[ViDA]

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n7/vivivi_01/genie9.jpg

[megamax]

291150

[Draixe]

Hooray for the deadline extension :) Thanks, Oregano.

[Tifaria]

Hooray for the extended deadline!

[jrr]

here's my entry
291916

[lewisaurus]

Here we go, my first CHOW.

Good luck to everyone!

[mrbo18]

My Final.

[DeKal]

oregano - you dont gotta take it to poll..just tryin to showcase it.

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x18/theekal2/CHOW1__103.jpg

[Matsign]

i'm not wooorthy ::worships::

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v450/cqb/chow103_matsign.jpg

[xgabo]

http://www.gabo.ca/xgabo_chow103_evilgenie.jpg

[Nutter]

adding some more to the boobshow :)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/Lechy/Chow103_Nutter.jpg

[Carnifex]

rub the lamp
smoke the smoke
make your wish

but be aware that your soul is hers now.

http://fitzinger.net/chow103_carnifex

-------------
phew,not as finished as i'd like it to be,but if feels good to be here with it nevertheless. great show people.

[Eugenesz]

Here's my genie, i like putting a practical spin behind magic, so for my genie being trapped for 5000 years she needs new skin to be reborn. So she's stripping some poor joes skin off, and wrapping it around her.http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj316/Eugenesz/eugenie.jpg[/IMG]

[Eugenesz]

An evil genie stealing someones skin.

[Eugenesz]

An evil genie stealing someones skinhttp://http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj316/Eugenesz/eugenie.jpg

[octopus_interphone]

Left it to the last minute so a lot of lameness happened. I will figure out how to colour one day.

291839

[Gwenevere]

Argh... Here's mine, at the extreme last minute... Evil djinn Princess at the entrance to a hidden underground Djinn City.. Everything is oils on bristol board, except the crow, which had to be done in Photoshop due to lack of time... (I'll add it to the original sometime I suppose...)

[S.C. Watson]

No Entries Past This Point.

NOTE: WE HAD 63 ENTRIES. 18 WILL GO INTO AN HONORABLE MENTION CATEGORY. 45 GO TO POLL.

[daestwen]

voted for:

Beginner
markusthebarbarian

Intermediate
carotello
PatriciaS
Pseudocognition
smokenmirrors

Advanced
Poshspice
alice_
Chelette

crits to come later, maybe!

[2100]

Why did the entries close so early? I made alterations to mine!

Oh well, it's not going to vote anyway... :P

[ikuru]

Posh, Thats got to be my favorite piece from you ever. So intense, hot and sexy, not to mention well executed..

Love yours too Jessi! ;)

[Carnifex]

d'aw man,and here i thought i'd stand a chance this time...turns out i'm not even in the poll....man.
explanation?

[Mark Tarrisse]

Voted for :
Alice awesome, I really love your style !
Pseudoconition Really really nice ! :)

Was going to vote for but :
I must say I'm a fool because I didn't voted for carotello (don't know why, and now I just can't revote)
I really thought to vote for poshspice too but, I think I didn't voted because I think the concept isn't sooo original but, exept this, it's really really great :)
Vorace Hmmm... Well normally I really like what you're doing but this time, I don't like the colors. (You disappointed me :P Hehe no just jokin ! :D)

[frixon]

Don't know, IMHO, Jread's trapped inside evil genie seems the most-evil of all.
There goes my vote. :)

[mickeymao]

Again many of my favorites ended up in Intermediate, and this time some of the advanced pieces look problematic to me; but that's how it goes in the subjective world of art. Thanks, Oregano, for art directing.

So many awesome entries, so many I love, but I think my overall favorite is Chelette. Other thoughts, in no particular order...

alice_ - love it, voted for it.

Kian, love it, voted for it.

yee - love it, voted for it. Details could be a little clearer

PatriciaS - love it, voted for it. Not quite as technically accomplished as some, but you are really getting there, and I consistently like your concepts.

hallo - love it, voted for it. The backward-curling nails are a stroke of pure genius.

slash - love it, voted for it. Only nitpick is that she doesn't seem specifically a genie, she could be any sort of demon. The same is probably true of mine. What software were you using for your brush experiments?

Carotello - beautiful, simple, menacing. voted for it.

jread - great concept and personality. A little stiffness in the drawing of the figure.

pseudocognition - I love that bloody leg. The drawing is perhaps a little uncertain in the structure of the torso, and the color a bit heavy (the blood is super-bright, whereas her skin is unnaturally matte brown

smokenmirrors - great conceptual and graphical treatment.

Daestwen - that came out really nice. You should still learn to draw better feet.

Shockwave - that piece underwent major improvement, congratulations. I think her body still looks a bit flat in places, though, so next time maybe try using stronger lighting.

octopus_interphone - I'm not sure your concept is working for me, but that's a really nice start, especially the drapery.

Coldrum - love the painting, but the anatomy isn't convincing.

xgabo - some great marks and graphical devices here, but your concept doesn't say genie to me, and the sword doesn't look real at all.

Gwenevere - the lighting on her and the background don't match, and the colors seem a little out of control. There's also something very non-Arabian, almost Nordic, about her face.

Jessi and Posh, as usual you both did beautiful pieces, but neither of them grabbed me this time.

If I missed you and you feel like bugging me about it, feel free. A second crit is coming, just for the beginners.

[Georgeous]

Insane amount of entries :O

And my votes goes to:

markusthebarbarian
Rodimus25
carotello
VIDA
Kian
smokenmirrors
alice_
Becard

[dusty imp]

d'aw man,and here i thought i'd stand a chance this time...turns out i'm not even in the poll....man.
explanation?

I'd like to hear the reasoning here as well. The way I understood the rules the best work is supposed to make it to poll. Am I to understand that my piece was worse then anything in the Beginner category?

[daestwen]

I'd like to hear the reasoning here as well. The way I understood the rules the best work is supposed to make it to poll. Am I to understand that my piece was worse then anything in the Beginner category?

From what I understand, that's not *exactly* true. Categories are placed first, and then 15 chosen from that category. So, hypothetically, if someone placed 'advanced', but there were 16 entries, you might be out of the poll, even though your stuff is better than people in the beginner/intermediate entries. Basically it's just so that even the beginners get a chance to go to poll, and win a prize in their round.

(Oregano, if i stepped on your toes or made a mistake, feel free to correct me. :P )

[S.C. Watson]

I'd like to hear the reasoning here as well. The way I understood the rules the best work is supposed to make it to poll. Am I to understand that my piece was worse then anything in the Beginner category?

No. It wasn't. You had actually placed at Intermediate.

The first thing that I do after downloading all of the images is to go through and get them organized according to skill level.

Once that is done, I have to take into account how many pieces we have (room roughly for 15 in each category, with a slim amount of wiggle room - that means 45+/- total). This week we had 63 entries at the time entries closed.

So this means that pieces have to be cut from poll, because the mechanics of the CA poll system have don't like much more than 50 entries. This is hard coded and out of my control. Otherwise I have to do two polls.

Yutani, your piece was initially placed in the intermediate selection. This was the largest group for this particular chow with 28 entries there. I could only take 15 to poll. I would rather not take a good piece to poll than to kick it down a category (where there isn't any more room than were it landed to begin with). Ultimately, the reason that it didn't make it to poll was it didn't read "genie" to me at all. It strikes me more as a sci-fi piece, actually. But there are no "genies" elements to the piece that I can identify right off other than smoke and that could be anything. I.e. - there is no lamp (while that was not necessarily required, it would have helped it "read" better) or any other identifier that marks the character as a genie. I think it could have done well with a bit more refinement - your skill level is certainly high enough.

I hope that makes sense.
All the best,
~Oreg.

[Vorace]

Markusthebarbarian : hehe it's ok.
Any tips on how I could make it better? I would like to work more on this piece and any kind of input would be very appreciated!

[dusty imp]

Thanks for clearing it up Oregano, guess I simply misunderstood the mechanics at work here and jumped the gun a bit. Thank you for the crit as well, I'll be sure to keep it in mind for the next CHOW.

[ikuru]

Personally I liked it better when it was all about voting for the peace You really really Liked.. It gave the competition a really professional feel.
Being forced to vote for a beginner peace that you really don't care for...
I don't know... Who wants to be king of the noobs anyways?

Being quite new to all this myself I liked How Hard and rough this thread always been. Just makes u wanne push yourself even harder, trying to reach that most professional corner off the universe... ;)

This is no crit to anyone or anything like that (I do think its all being run in a all good manner) Just felt like expressing some of my personal feelings on the matter.

Ps. I voted only for posh and jessi, not to brake the rules, but course I forgot, that the rules have been changed.

thanx.

[mickeymao]

Actually, I'm not sure I have time to do completely individual crits, and a lot of the same problems are always common to the beginner's group, so I may sum up.

Okay,so you've all heard that you should use reference. I know it seems like a pain, but it helps enormously, not just with the piece you're doing, but with your understanding of the anatomy and lighting for all future pieces. This is the best way to accomplish the main thing I suggest for all of you: really work out the structure, detail, and maybe even lighting in your drawing, before you paint.

Beginner mistake #2 is to use color too simplistically. Almost nothing in real life is one uniform color with a darker version of that same color for the shadows. Skin especially has lots of different colors in it, depending on the blood circulation inside and the lighting outside. Try not to use black for shading (blumarling and tomato, I'm looking at you). Give your light sources some color, and it's often best if there are 2 different sources with one warm and one cool.

Loose vs. tight - start out loose with the drawing, get the proportions and structure, then tighten up the key parts. Same thing with the painting. Make sure at least the focal area has a good level of detail. Make sure where you keep it loose that the brush strokes look blended or painterly, not just Photoshop round (cowboy_surfer, I'm looking at you).

I think probably those three things cover most of what's wrong with most of the beginner pieces. Exceptions: Grenogs and Markus, I think you guys know what you're doing, you just didn't achieve the level of clarity or drama that maybe Oregano was looking for. Rodimus25, I just don't think that particular cartoon style is working for you, especially in this challenge. I'm not sure it was a good idea to paint non-cartoony smoke over her either.

I hope that didn't get too pedantic. We've all been where you are, and the skills you're trying to learn aren't easy. But keep it up and you can progress pretty quickly.

[megamax]

Great work everyone.

I voted for:

Beginners:

Grenogs, for his originality and creating such an evil looking genie. The skulls in the smoke are a nice touch.

Intermediate:

Jread, again for originality. This is the only one I saw that is inside the lamp. I love the expression and body language of the genie. The cobwebs are a nice touch and really help convey the idea that she's been there for a REALLY long time.

Hallo: I like the rendering style of this piece. The lighting is done well, and she really does look evil.

Cartello: I get the feeling she's just about to fly at me and do something terrible. The fire looks great.

Advanced

Poshspice: I love everything you do, Posh! Thanks for posting so many great sketches. It's awesome to see your ideas progress from your early ideas to the final piece.

Alice: Love the style of this one. Great expression on the genie. She looks like she's got some evil thoughts going on in that head.

[carotello]

Thanks all for the votes and comments. This was a great round and it's really a shame everyone can't fit in. Thanks Oregano for your continuing effort in keeping this weekly competition up, it's very inspiring.

[Noë]

Being forced to vote for a beginner peace that you really don't care for...
I don't know... Who wants to be king of the noobs anyways?
I completely disagree with you. Even though I never entered this competition, I look at the polls almost every week, and I think that it's a great encouragement that there is a beginner level as well.. I think it must be very discouraging when your (beginner) entry is never taken to poll, just because there are so many great ones as well.. And I for one would definitely like to be queen of the noobs if I would enter, because that would mean that I improved and really stepped it up a notch!

Love
Marleen.

P.S. Great crits mickeymao, even though they're not meant for me, they deserve a thanks ^^.

[daestwen]

. And I for one would definitely like to be queen of the noobs if I would enter, because that would mean that I improved and really stepped it up a notch!

I totally agree. (And I think I can, since I was the first queen of the noobs. :P )

[chaosrocks]

voted

Beginner kailaan i like the style of it

Intermediate
octopus interphone, daestwen, jread, kian,

Advanced
alice

jreads has been my favorite all along I love the expression of it. I avoided all the boob show Genie's. just rejected them out of hand.

and Oregano knows my feelings on the polling system.... :( but maybe Im just envious of his embarassment of entries :P

beautiful work. I loved some of the more creative ideas and the ones who realized geniis dont have to be naked babes

crx

[Aly Fell]

jreads has been my favorite all along I love the expression of it. I avoided all the boob show Genie's. just rejected them out of hand.


Just out of interest Chaos, why?

[ikuru]

Noë (and daestwen ) I fully respect that opinion and can obviously see that point.

I just think that there should be One thread that is just as tough when it came to the Poll as any AD in the real Gaming Industry would be.

A thread like that is a very useful playground.

Anyhow... There is nothing wrong with this as it is.
I just think I Liked it better when I only had to vote for the art that I really, really liked...

[Aly Fell]

I voted for two in each category…

Markusthebarbarian – Strong visual with great impact. Main problem is lack of detail which would really be needed for character development. But I guess the CHOW isn’t really about that, so I’m being a trifle unfair. Good silhouette!

Mirana – Love the fact she looks middle-eastern, and the clothing looks authentic as well. Not so sure about the flames, but as an image this works and she looks appealing if not terribly evil! :)

Daestwen – I’ve already said to you why I like this Daestwen, but her androgyny works well, proportionally she’s a step outside the usual characters, and the colour scheme is fab! Her expression is very cute, but like Mirana’s I think she could look a bit more evil.

Kian – I really enjoy seeing characters from you Jon, and she’s fab. Powerful and definitely evil. Smashing lighting, but perhaps as much love could have been paid to things like the hands and other details as you paid to the, er, chest… ;)

JessiBean – Her expression makes this for me. Evil and revelling in it! Subdued colours and interesting composition. ‘Rub me’ is a groovy chuckle as well! Not too sure about the pattern overlay, but I do this as well so I should be the last to critisize really! :)

Alice – My favourite of the lot. Lovely design work and colours make this enormously appealing, and I’d have it on my wall. The only things I’m not totally sold on (and I hate this, ‘I like, I don’t like’ routine but it feels right to balance a crit), is the electric blue line. Not entirely sure it needs it. One other smallthing is the arm under the guys chin; the hand reads a little awkwardly as it goes against the arc of the arm. Not really important though…

[Splittingadams]

wow, excllent showing people.

Voted for a few in each catagory but my pick for best in show is alice...


keep um coming!

[Phuzion]

You know, the hard thing about voting at CHoW is the ease with which I can get caught up in a really damn nice illustration. I think it's sometimes hard to look past that and look at the actual design of the character(s). This week was no exception. There are some beautiful illustrations, but some of them when you get down to it, are rather plain when it comes to the design of the Genie. So I had to put that part of me away that just likes pretty pictures and get tough. I went with Chelette, Splittingadams, and GeistDel. For one reason or another, those were the designs I liked the most in each category. Good job everyone! I'm sad I couldn't muster of the pluck to participate in this one. Been busy with my own stuff of late. Keep rockin' it!

Cheers,
~d

[Senira]

Lots of great entries this round. I'm particularly fond of Alice's and Carotello's. Fantastic job ladies!

Out of curiosity, Oregano, what kept mine out of the polls? I'm not upset that I didn't make it, but I was going to add this on to my portfolio, so I'd like to know what I should fix up, or if I should chuck it entirely.

[Gwenevere]

Gwenevere - the lighting on her and the background don't match, and the colors seem a little out of control. There's also something very non-Arabian, almost Nordic, about her face.

Oh god, don't talk to me about the background, aarrgghhh! I whomped it out at the eleventh hour on Wednesday morning, it's an utter nightmare, you have no idea... Later I'm going to have to go back in and really finish huge chunks of that piece...

Colors out of control...? What, ya don't dig the glowing technicolor draperies? :D OK, yes, there's a lot of tweakage needed all over... Though, as for her looking "Nordic", I dunno. Personally, she reminds me of a former Persian co-worker of mine... Thanks for the crits, though - will bear them in mind when I go back to tweak.

OK, now I should REALLY try to put in some votes-n-crits before the end of the poll... but I gotta finish my P.O.W. entry first...

[coldrum]

With due respect to Oregano, I feel there are a few miss placed entries in there but it's bound to happen with so many of em.

Fav would have to be Alice even though theres a few minor anatomy probs.. I really like the style, it reminds me of old storybook illustrations. I agree with Posh, it may not have needed the blue line. Still really cool tho.

Looking at mine now I can see that I didnt really develop my character at all... time is an issue but meh thats no excuse. I didnt use any reference either which I should've done. Thanks for the crits to those who gave em ; )

[cowboy surfer]

Good job everyone, my votes went to:

markusthebarbarian - dark, moody, good
rodimus25 - great flames and smoke
carotello - the best of the lot in my book, exuding sheer evil, awesome
mickeymao - great take on a classic
psuedocognition - nice render, nice concept
jread - idea, expression, colourscheme... all top notch
poshspice - good choice of pallete, love the 'wings'
coldrum - energetic drawing, evil, trousers rendered beautifully
chelette - a close 2nd imo, expression, colour choice, details... all excelllent

[Rodimus25]

Thanks for votes and crits guys and gals. Hopefully ll move back up to intermediate again next round;p

Fav so far is Alice :yum:

[Carnifex]

The first thing that I do after downloading all of the images is to go through and get them organized according to skill level.


soooo,where did my pic fail?
i'm really trying not to get my feelings to involved over this,but it's pretty fuckin discouraging to work of your ass for naught.
although i'm kindof assuming it's a "first come,first serve" situation this time.
still would love to hear your reasoning.

[KellyMan]

My votes went to :
Grenogs - The genie looks so exceptionally evil. Your use of colour and lighting make an amazing pic.
jread - The idea is really cool and original. The lighting is gorgeous.
smokenmirros - The pose is great, as is the deisgn.
Kian - I love the sense of power and fear she projects.
Alice - I adore the style. Great design and the composition is fantastic!

[coldrum]

Bukakeface - I thought your Genie was amazing... I dont see you in the poll anywhere?

Carnifex - dont be discouraged mate, I dont know why you didnt go to poll but I do know everyone feels like that at some stage... seems like a one step forward two steps back thing sometimes but it's all worth it... nothing you do is for naught. Just come back stronger next time.

[aoleon]

Voted for:

Beginner>>

GeistDel--There are anatomy issues with your character, background isn't very inspiring but I like the design!

Kailaan--Nice background, Character needs refining, liked better than most of the intermediate entries..

Mirana--I liked this one, but I can't tell what makes her a genie other than her shoes--and I had this problem with a lot of the other entries as well...


Intermediate>>

Jread-- Great idea, definitely my favorite entry of this round...and I liked the background you chose instead of the hieroglyphics.

(I forgot to vote for Carotello!)

Advanced>>

Poshspice--liked the color scheme for this one

Squidmonk3J--Liked the composition a lot, not so much the character...I think Chaos has a point...

Coldrum--nice design, loved the background and the lamp

[themissinglink]

i have to agree with some of 'honorable mentions' as to why my piece wasnt in the poll. i read your reply to Yutani and assmed that the lack of a lamp was a reason why my piece wasnt in the poll. this doesnt make any sense to my cause there was no requierment for a lamp in the brief so how can you penalize people for not having one. also if it was a "first come, first serve" as Carnifex said then why do i see some people in the poll that posted after me? i am not angry, jsut dissapointed and would like to understand your reasoning so i can be placed in the pole in the future.

[chaosrocks]

posh... to answer your question..... 1. the brief specified directly that this wasn't a boob show... so if the focus of a piece was a lucious pair, I assumed someone misread the brief
2. I think part of the point was to think out side the, "every topic is a half or less clad woman" box.
3. I am not old fashioned enough to believe that evil cant be beautiful. but it just seemed like so many took this opportunity to paint one more pin up. I was hoping for something a little more creative. and beautiful pinups they are too. but still....
i hope that answers your question. Its not that I dont like the images, its just that they don't meet what I interpreted to be the brief.

with greatest respect
Chaosrocks

[oishiiniku]

I'm with Phuzion on this one - there are a ton of entries this week that have been finished to a very high standard, but not many that actually explore and push the design aspect of the brief particularly. Maybe there's the potential to split CHOW into Character Design and Character Illustration categories? Not ideal obviously, but it would be nice to see people rewarded for imaginitive ideas as well as their rendering skills (of course, I'm not saying that the two are mutually exclusive).

I'm not totally convinced by the new polling system either. Categorising entries based on their apparent skill level doesn't stop you having to cut out entries, it just means that people at the middle to lower end of the scale are more likely to get dropped from the poll. I'm not sure what the solution is because if the board system at CA only allows a certain number of entries then there's nothing we can do about that. I do think that the previous system was fairer in some ways though.

I don't want to sound completely negative - the CHOW is a great activity (hence its massive popularity) and I'm sure we all appreciate the time and effort that Oregano is putting into it to make it run, but I still think that there is room to finesse the system a bit. As someone who has only managed to submit a final twice in over 100 CHOWs though, feel free to disregard this little rant:D.

Ta, Nick.

[-Food]-]

I voted

Poshspice – totally kickass genie you embodied exactly what I would expect an evil genie to look like


Rodimus – one of my favorites – and not sure what you doing in beginners section ;[

Coldrum – the rendering is always top notch

Hmmm … when I thought of the topic I did think sexy lends itself well in evil ….and then again I am European and boobs are quite the norm from where I come from
Although I am aware the brief required no boobs show :geekg:

[Aly Fell]

posh... to answer your question..... 1. the brief specified directly that this wasn't a boob show... so if the focus of a piece was a lucious pair, I assumed someone misread the brief
2. I think part of the point was to think out side the, "every topic is a half or less clad woman" box.
3. I am not old fashioned enough to believe that evil cant be beautiful. but it just seemed like so many took this opportunity to paint one more pin up. I was hoping for something a little more creative. and beautiful pinups they are too. but still....
i hope that answers your question. Its not that I dont like the images, its just that they don't meet what I interpreted to be the brief.

with greatest respect
Chaosrocks

Thanks for the clarification Chaos. My concern which I should have mentioned before was that dismissing all the 'boob show' entries out of hand kind of ignored some really exciting and individual entries. But I can't argue with the brief definition, which does specify 'not a boob show'. Personally I interpreted this more losely, as there is an atavism to a genie which a degree of nakedness can emphasise.

And I return the respect! :)



As for the other comments about 'really nice rendering and lack of design', just some personal thoughts, (STANDARD DISCLAIMER) as this got me thinking generally: this is a character creation challenge. Character does not come from fancy clothes or bizarre and outlandish clothing design. To quote Mr Wolf in Pulp Fiction: "Because you are a character does not mean you have character". Revealled personality comes from expression, both facially and through gesture. Yes, costume design is important as it can be an outward presentation of 'character', but this isn't specifically 'costume design of the week'. If it was we would all be doing generic Leonardo 'turnaround' sheets with a new outfit every time and it would be called 'model sheet of the week'. Instead, (and you can argue this isn't what CHOW should be about) we are producing on the whole complete illustrations with a character as a central theme, and illustrations are about mood, atmosphere and narrative.

Maybe it would be a good challenge one week for there to be stricter parameters. We provide a three view turnaround, or orthographic with minimal character (neutral expression) and maximum costume design, and the following week take that design and provide a character sheet with various poses, expressions and personality designs. Hmm... But maybe that would be too much like work, because in the end, CHOW should be about having fun... shouldn't it?

[oishiiniku]

Poshspice: I'm not having a go at you or anyone else for being able to paint beautifully (I think your work is fantastic), and I agree conveying character in terms of personality is very important. But I think there are a number of important aspects to character design (silhouette, costume, personality etc.) that should all play their part. I'm not suggesting that the competition should be turned into something more professional and 'work-like' just that good ideas be rewarded in the same way as good painting. Maybe you could award votes based upon both idea AND execution? For example, an entry that is intriguing but less-professionally finished would get 1 vote, an entry that is more obvious conceptually but very well executed would also get 1 vote and a piece that ticked both boxes would be awarded 2 votes. This would all be down to the opinion of the person voting, obviously. I dunno, that sounds a bit crap too...

Like I said before, I've only entered CHOW a couple of times so my opinion shouldn't necessarily count for much. I'll butt out now!

Ta, Nick.

[Aly Fell]

Poshspice: I'm not having a go at you or anyone else for being able to paint beautifully (I think your work is fantastic), and I agree conveying character in terms of personality is very important. But I think there are a number of important aspects to character design (silhouette, costume, personality etc.) that should all play their part. I'm not suggesting that the competition should be turned into something more professional and 'work-like' just that good ideas be rewarded in the same way as good painting. Maybe you could award votes based upon both idea AND execution? For example, an entry that is intriguing but less-professionally finished would get 1 vote, an entry that is more obvious conceptually but very well executed would also get 1 vote and a piece that ticked both boxes would be awarded 2 votes. This would all be down to the opinion of the person voting, obviously. I dunno, that sounds a bit crap too...

Like I said before, I've only entered CHOW a couple of times so my opinion shouldn't necessarily count for much. I'll butt out now!

Ta, Nick.


I didn't think you were having a go Nick. :) I was making a general observation because as I said some of those points got me thinking about what CHOW is all about and how people present 'character'. It's cool, and there's no fuss here. Maybe I should stick some more smileys in! ;) I guess I get a bit concerned about what seems to constitute presentation of 'character' and I was just verbalising it. It's probably just a semantic argument anyway...

[ikuru]

It gets me thinking about Marko Djurdjevic Character design dvd, where he say something like "Im not putting too much energy in to the rendering at this stage, after all this is just character design..." or something of the sort... (for those who have not seen it he´s doing he´s characters with pencil on paper in the vid, and leaving it at that).

The way I see it, theres something like 4 different approaches to it... First there would be just the figure. LIke a simple 2d lineart frontal ortho sort of thing... Mainly showing of the costume design, anatomy etc... (this would be a character but with no characteristics).
Next you have this same thing but now it has come to life, that is, you given it movement, a pose, personalty and expression (the hands and eyes are saying something now, there might be some perspective and some for shortenings going)

Then there would be the same but fully rendered, that is color and depth and some objects and background going, putting the character in to a story sort of thing that sort of gives the character another dimension again...

And finally you have the full fledged painting, that has everything, not only a simple background but a whole composition (with other things than your character in it (for example creatures or sideshow characters etc) creating further depth to story, dynamics, diversion and everything that comes with the territory....

[ManaBurn]

I don't know Ikuru, by the end of the render it's a complete piece. He renders it in pencil, but it goes way beyond anything any of us are capable of even fully painted. He makes sure to include expression, even if it's just through the hands or the stance of the char. What Marko acomplishes is a complete story and feeling and energy in the picture, but with the use of just a single char. He gets so much across with that one char that it doesn't require anything but the char. He's making reference to his work flow during the early stage of doing the piece, while he's just trying to get everything to a point where he finally render's it with his 0.5 mm HB lead mechanical pencil. Near the end he says that he could scan this in photoshop, or seal the piece and paint it traditionaly. It's in effect a completely finished piece just no color.

[grenogs]

i only voted for 3 images in this, 1 for each catagory, which defenently made it quite difficult.
beginner- markusthebarbarian
intermediate- carotello
advanced - alice
Ivoted for these 3 simply becouse i think they covered the evilness and genie part the best out of their catecory.

I also want to mention jreads image, i realy liked this image, but it just didnt come across as being evil, i would concider it more as being mischevous genie, i think maybe that had something to do with the monkeys tail. If it had some over evil images floating around inside, like skulls, deamons, ancient simbols, etc.... then i think it would have worked a lot better as being something more evil.

On the whole though, there was some realy well executed images, which did make it hard to vote, but personally i was also quite disapointed, i was expecting a lot more from people, there was 2 great ideas together (evil + genie) that even on their own should have produced some fantastic images, and yet knowbody realy pushed and played with the idea as much as it could have been.

[mickeymao]

Okay, obviously we're all bringing our own assumptions as to what CHOW is about, partly having to do with the industries we're most familiar with. I hear Oshiiniku expressing a view similar to what I've encountered in the game industry - most game engines aren't capable of capturing the subtlety of real personality, so a good character design is a good silhouette with built-in body language and features that tell you about (and provoke a response to) that character without having to look into their flat pixellated eyes. For something like a book or magazine cover illo that you want to have maximum impact, you'd want to really emphasize the more human, expression-based type of character, because that and the technical skill of the painting are what will really sell it ("Concept" then becomes more about the graphical devices and composition used to spice up the image, than the costume).

It's possible we could have a separate voting category if the technology supports that, or the voter could take it on him/herself to vote once for concept and once for illustration. Or as Posh says, it could be a feature of the brief -- sometimes requiring an ortho or more simply putting emphasis on silhouette or requiring a non-standard interpretation. At the end of the day, diversity makes us better, so I don't know if any change to the system is really necessary -- except that it would be nice to have some sort of official mission statement about it in a prominent place so everyone coming in understands what the parameters are.

[ShockWave]

Shockwave - that piece underwent major improvement, congratulations. I think her body still looks a bit flat in places, though, so next time maybe try using stronger lighting.

I really appreciate the kind words and critique mickeymao.

As for the most recent posts about the voting system. Everyone loves to win a competition and to me, the CHOW is more about competing against yourself than anyone else. If you don't win or don't get entered into the poll at all, it should make you work that much harder next time. It should be the fuel to make you a better artist.

The CHOW is about making you better at what you do. Thats the reward.

[chaosrocks]

it is true we all interpret CHOW interms of what we do. I'm costume designer, trained to interpret character through what they wear..... I dont enter mostly because I can't render up to chow standard, But I always watch.....:P

crx

[squidmonk3j]

this might serve as a good lesson to all the aspiring commercial artists out there:

know ur audience

;)

[smokenmirrors]

wow, I stepped away from this thread for a bit and come back to see some intense conversation going on... of which I certainly pondered upon seeing the polling process for this particular chow.

Carnifex: I feel your pain man. Your piece was excellent and your work deserved to make it to the poll.

along that note: the placement of "beginner, intermediate and advanced" seems pretty arbitrary, as I saw quite a few pieces that seemed out of place.
be that placed up or down.

also: i read a couple comments about ignoring the "boob show" pieces and likewise that the prompt justified this. I disagree and within my "interpretation" the

"FANTASY - OPEN ENDED

Evil female genie.
This is NOT to be a boob show. Focus on the character, give it a Middle Eastern spin. Be creative, not lecherous. "

serves only to discourage a bunch of boris vallejo nude types... thus: boobs: acceptable so long as its done as complimentary to the character and not THE character.

regardless, CHOW is loads of fun and I certainly hope to keep contributing. If the voting system changes, so be it, but from my end if you get a vote from me, its no mercy vote. Your piece rocked for a multitude of reasons and Im saluting the effort. YA HEARD! :P

[Splittingadams]

with all comments put aside for a moment i wanna thank OG (oregano) for putting this together each week.

im sure no one gets paid to do this, so i wanna say thanks for taking time out to keep this more or less orginized!


:asspat: so thanks!!

[Sorknes]

In the beginner section I voted for:

markusthebarbarian: Even tho you can't see too much of the character itself, it shows enough for you to grasp it. And it's not your average blue genie with bellydance outfit. It looks alone, and like it would like to have a go at someone, just someone.

grenogs: It's different. It's evuhl. I like the skull in the smoke.

Rodimus25: Definitly not a nice genie. You get a feeling of her personality. I like the colours and the comic approach.

In the advanced section I voted for:

mickeymao: also not the average genie. I like the picture overall. Couple of nice additions there that makes it stand out between the others, for me.

PatriciaS: I like the modern approach. I can so see that thing coming out of my winebottle offering me überdrawing skillz so she can start fecking up my wishes whichever way she wants.

pseudocognition: Man, I love that. Colours, the genie itself, the idea. Vote!

jread: So a fav of mine. Seen it around, and it's just wonderful. Whatever people say about lacking details on the genie itself, it expresses just as much as it needs to for you to get the whole story. Absolutely wonderful. Saved and voted. Great idea! And the only one inside the lamp still.

Kian: Can't get much more evil than that.

Advanced section:

Poshspice: Not really earthshaking design, but a damn nice picture. Love the muted colours.

Squidmonk3j: Very simple, very classic. Tells it all.

Coldrum: Funneh and evuhl.

Chate Noire: This one gets a vote because I actually laughed out loud when I first saw it. Priceless.

[Mark Tarrisse]

The CHOW is about making you better at what you do. Thats the reward.

Very well sayed ! :)
When I posted for queen medusa and oregano didn't put my pic to the pool, I was really disappointed. But in fact as shockwave mentioned, the reward is that by practicing we get better and better every day.
Last year I was studiying at an art school in belgium, but I failed my year, and I didn't have the money to do an other year. So this year I return to Istanbul, and I must say I have progress more this year that last year. Mostly thanks to conceptart and all the things I've learned here.
Well CHOW COW or the others activities are not about being first of the week, it's about seeing what others create with the same topic, and with the comments and critics learn our weakness and try to do better.

Conceptart is a huge school :)

[smugbug]

I've always felt that the spirit behind CHOW or any other activity was to improve. So for each one I enter, I always prepare to empty my cup and receive the C&Cs with open arms so that they can fill me up and get me ready for the next challenge.

If I weren't to make it to poll, I'd evaluate my piece against the ones which I thought displayed first class workmanship and skills. Self-evaluation and then more practice and then on to the next challenge with what I learned from the previous challenge intact. And so on and so on....(and I haven't made it to poll before and this is what I do EVERY time with this challenge)

I doubt this is really new stuff for a LOT of the folks here - all you'd have to do is scour all of the previous CHOWs (and activities in general) and see how many people have really improved and see what the level of work is on consistent display by those who finish on top.

But really, I wonder how many people here could do what Oregano does, week after week. Oy vay. So much thanks go out to him for organizing this baby, as I know there's no way in hell I'd do it.

Thank you to who took the time to comment on my piece, though! Much appreciated!

[Gwenevere]

Well, my 2 cents on this whole debate of "What is character design" in the context of CHOW... personally, I prefer the fairly open-ended approach we've had so far. This way everybody can focus on character design/illustration in a way that's most relevant to the kind of work they do (or want to do) rather than being forced into the standards of a specific industry that may not be their own.

Character design can take so many different approaches and can have quite different requirements for games, animated features, children's books, book cover illustration, licensed merchandise, etc., etc... I think CHOW is most useful to everybody when we can all twist it to meet our own goals, no matter how different those goals are.

I know I wouldn't be happy if we had to do specific model sheets with such-and-such views, turnarounds, etc. My god, that WOULD be too much like work!

Oh, and re: all the usual obsession about the polls... for goodness sakes, people, it's about the work you do each week, and about learning from what everyone else is doing, it's not about who gets placed where and why and how many votes didja get... Sure, making the poll is a nice perk and an incentive, but don't let it take over your lives. Just move on to the next one, keep going, keep improving, don't look back...

[Tydal]

First off, all respects but I think if you're going to do the poll in 3 seperate catergories that you should at least put people in the right place. Or have a democracy about which goes where instead of a dictatorship. For instance, Carotello's piece should definitely be in the advanced section ( in my opion ) just for the pure fact it is rendered with extreme beauty and the concept is somewhat more adventurous then half the entries in the advanced sections. It seems to be going off names atm instead of the actual art. For instance, however much I love Posh's art and Jessi's masterpieces and so on I feel they get put in advanced for literally anything they draw. No offense btw, to Oreg (I know you spend time wisely deciding) or anyone's art because It's all beautiful this week, and definitely everyones pieces should be moving on up if anything instead of down. Right sorry for rambling, and if I'm wrong in some way (like there wasn't enough room in a catergorie for example), please correct me. despite all this, here are my votes :) one for each cat:

Beg: Rod
Inters: Cart
Advanced: Posh

edit* sorry I just missed gwen's post above me :P lol, sorry I couldn't help myself fussing...*slaps self*

[Carnifex]

Sure, making the poll is a nice perk and an incentive, but don't let it take over your lives. Just move on to the next one, keep going, keep improving, don't look back...

it's moreso an acknowledgement of skill for actual participation. :)

anyways,votes from me go to:
kellyman
alice
poshspice
carotello
jread

i wouldn't be able to chose a favourite,but jread probably captured the spirit best. more of a costume design on the actual character could have added even more,but it's definately a nice illustration.
posh,admittedly this was really right up your alley ;)

edit: ach,forgot to vote for draixe.>:| best evil attitude display of all those pieces. really sorry.

[S.C. Watson]

Hm. Not sure where to begin here.

Thank you to *everyone* for your opinions, thoughts, and comments.

I'm always kind of humbled that this thing garners so much debate, and seemingly impacts so many people so strongly. Through it all, I'm always excited that so many people love character design, concept, and creation as much as I do. Being able to see what everyone comes up with every week is just the greatest treat for me.

Obviously, the poll system has become, um, rather controversial, to coin a phrase. Part of the reason is that people get cut from the poll - for which I'm always sorry for. I'd love to take everyone to Poll. I've stated this before. When pulling this thing together every week, it's always painful to set some aside, because I *know* how much work most of you put into you work, and I *know* how disappointing it is to not attain your goal.

Sometimes you end up hurting friends feelings, like what's happened with Carnifex, for which I am sorry. You piece placed at Intermediate in my opinion, and then was moved to HM because it really didn't look like a genie to me. It looked like a lizard with female genitalia. Sometimes, though, it comes down to just simply which pieces I like. And, sometimes I like the one no one else does. And, sometimes, frankly, I just simply blow it. :ore:

One of the hardest things that I'm finding to convey to the participants (as I eye an in box full of hate mail this week) is that this really isn't personal - it's not a value judgment. I'm not grading your soul. When we have too many pieces, I'm forced to select the pieces that I feel are best suited for the CHOW Poll. Some of you make my job damn hard, because you are damn good artists. Perhaps the categories should be renamed? Just CATEGORY 1, 2, & 3? I don't know.

All that said, I'm thinking about holding a poll to get some real feedback on whether to keep the categories or not.

The main reason for them, though, is really to bring attention to the beginners and intermediate artists that have previously been notoriously overlooked in CHOW - no votes, no comments, no real encouragement.

The only *real* downside to this system (aside form my misplacing the occasional entry) is that we are limited by numbers - 63 entries, of which 45 go to poll. It took two hours to get everything pulled together for the genie this week. Not a great time commitment, but when you've got kids, job, pets, your *own* artwork you'd like to be working on, that's a valuable little block of time.

I love the CHOW - I wouldn't have made an ass out of myself to get it going if I didn't. I want it to be the best it can be for you guys. It's not a power or ego trip for me. (those of you who've met me *know* this). It's something that I really believe in, and it goes beyond just great artwork as well.

A lot of it touches on us as artists being able to tell a story about someone - to capture that quality that just... makes them more real. Regardless of how fantastic the subject is. It needs to be identifiable - it needs to resonate within you on some level in order to be a real character. Otherwise, it's just a fancy drawing without a soul. Look at your work, and look at the masters - you see what I mean?

As for the boob show debate - there isn't one.

Nuff said.

All the best, good luck, do great work, and thank you for participating! CHOW wouldn't be CHOW if it wasn't for all of you!

:geekg:

Ciao,
~Oreg.

[The Whistler]

hey, great work everyone, voted rodimus, vorace, jread, carotello and coldrum,

I am extremely pleased to have made it into the intermediate section, it is kind of a big deal to me since its my first time :)

so, thanks Oreg, you made my day :)

[Carnifex]

ahh,ok,thanks for finally clearing this up. i thought i'd go abit away from the norm (oil lamp), but apparently i missed the mark too much. will have to indicate the connection better next time.
may i ask why the poll doesn't allow more than 45? does the forum software act up then? (cause of thumbnails maybe?)

sometimes i forget that the person behind the nick and the person i met on the workshop are the same,it feels different at times :) all cool.
appreciate what you're doing f'sure,despite my sometimes quick-to-anger-and-forget-again temper.
:)

[Tifaria]

The main reason for them, though, is really to bring attention to the beginners and intermediate artists that have previously been notoriously overlooked in CHOW - no votes, no comments, no real encouragement.

I really want to say thank you for this. I'm still a noob around here, I've only entered two CHOWs, and this is my first with the new polling system. Personally, the thing I like about the categories is that first of all, you get to see where you measure up against all the other artists, which gives you incentive to work harder in the future, and secondly, as Oregano said, the beginner and intermediate entries don't get ignored. I'm honored to have been put in the poll in the first place, and seeing where Oregano thinks I belong means that I really need to work harder from now on.

That said, I voted for:

Beginner:

KellyMan: She looks quite happy about how she's torturing the poor guy, which to me makes her all the more evil. Love the skulls in the smoke. True, it has anatomy issues, but by now you probably already know that.

Rodimus25: I really enjoy the colors and the annoyed expression on her face.

Intermediate:

Carotello: Not much I can say about this one that hasn't already been said.

Hallo: I like the perspective used on her, and her menacing stance.

Kian: Quite scary looking, and very atmospheric.

Advanced:

Coldrum: The sickly colors work very well here.

Alice: Beautiful, but creepy.

I felt like the intermediate entries were actually stronger in terms of following the brief. All of the advanced entries were technically strong and made beautiful illustrations, but for many of them I didn't think they really conveyed a sense of evil, or even looked much like a genie. However, I made this same mistake with my own entry, so take that with a grain of salt. Good showing all around.

[carotello]

First off, all respects but I think if you're going to do the poll in 3 seperate catergories that you should at least put people in the right place. Or have a democracy about which goes where instead of a dictatorship. For instance, Carotello's piece should definitely be in the advanced section ( in my opion ) just for the pure fact it is rendered with extreme beauty and the concept is somewhat more adventurous then half the entries in the advanced sections. It seems to be going off names atm instead of the actual art. For instance, however much I love Posh's art and Jessi's masterpieces and so on I feel they get put in advanced for literally anything they draw. No offense btw, to Oreg (I know you spend time wisely deciding) or anyone's art because It's all beautiful this week, and definitely everyones pieces should be moving on up if anything instead of down. Right sorry for rambling, and if I'm wrong in some way (like there wasn't enough room in a catergorie for example), please correct me. despite all this, here are my votes :) one for each cat:


Tydal, thanks for the vote of confidence. As for Oregano's decision to place me in the intermediate category, I agree with his decision and totally respect it. My participation in this activity this week was a rushed effort, which comes from the fact that I have a very busy job, with a very long commute and some freelance assignments on top of that. I am a concept artist, and the meaning of this activity for me is to have fun and explore subjects with more relaxation than my day to day art directed work. I respect very much the fact that some people who participate in this activity do it in a much more serious effort, and thus spend that much more in producing amazing work.
Oregano is a professional, and he can see that my piece was not for the advanced category, and I appreciate the fact that in his own busy life he takes the time to even sort through these things.
What matters about all this, is that we have some awesome work, and that the participation in this activity has gone up tremendously, which is fantastic. I am glad it is encouraging people to even think about what concept art means to each of us, and how many approaches there are to this particular field.
I am extremely honored to have so many votes with something that I don't consider my best work. Thank you all.

[Scummy]

i am also kind of confused by the categories... are they supposed to represent the quality of the work or to point out who's a senior in these activities? Also to avoid discouraging, the pieces should be added to the poll in chronological order, meaning, the ones that were finished first get included, that would make the finished entries thread more useful. After all, both the categories and the inclusion seem to be subject to your subjective judgement, Oregano, and that is a bit unfair and discouraging to those who finished on time.

[daestwen]

Scummy:

The categories are arranged each week by the piece presented. Oregano's said a few times what his considerations are for each of the categories, and there's a new rules thread going up that should clarify many of your questions, but I'll try to address them here anyway. There are, obviously, a few people here who do pieces almost every week and consistently end up in the 'advanced' bracket, but it's not because they are seniors here, it's because that's where their work is judged to stand. (The exception, of course, is if you win one of the categories, you're bumped up to the higher one for the next round, which is the one reason I'm not in beginner. :) )

There are simply too many pieces for them to be placed in chronological order. There has always been a 'skimming' when it comes to CHOW, simply for the size limitations of the poll, and that has been left up to the mod's discretion. The last few weeks we've been trying out the new category system to try to get more people included, as most of the crits, comments and votes were going to the really strong artists that we see here every week, and not as many to those of us who were beginners, or intermediates. The system is still being worked on and the kinks being ironed out, so please be patient. :)

The categories and inclusion are up to Oregano, and he spends a lot of time and effort to make sure that he is as fair as possible, and that he has good, sound reasons for all the decisions he makes.

Just because someone finishes first, or early, doesn't mean that it's their best work, or the best work out of what is being presented. There's no point cutting people out of poll just because they posted it ten minutes before the deadline instead of four days - the deadline *is* the deadline. It's a quality contest, not a speed contest, and it would be a shame to turn it into one.

[Scummy]

I understand that part but what i don't understand is why quality work is left out of the voting while work with seemingly less effort gets in, and to the advanced group, no less. It just makes little to no sense, especially when put into contrast with the other activities in this forum which work perfectly as they are. I don't know, it might be the amount of entries what pushed the activity's voting in this direction or i don't know what but it all seems very arbitrary to me. I mean, i understand your explanation, it makes sense... except that in practice it doesn't seem to be working that well.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to reply.

[daestwen]

Scummy: I've said this already in one of my other replies to this subject, but I'll repeat it here and try to explain, if I can.

This round did have a lot of entries, and a bunch of good ones were left out. Most of these were left out from the 'intermediate' category, which had the most number of entries for the entire round. A lot of those pieces were very good, but most were left out because they simply didn't fit the brief as well. Carnifex's, for example, I personally really liked, but I have to agree with Oregano that it simply doesn't read 'genie', and since the brief is the most important aspect in ChOW, that's why it was left out. So a piece that might not be as technically well done might get in, simply because it fits the brief better. After all, the brief represents the client's wishes. You might make a piece that's the best thing you've ever created and worthy of 72 virgins, but if it's not what the client wanted or asked you for, it's still not going to fly.

And though it might seem arbitrary, Oregano gives us our brief and is thus 'the client', so if he doesn't think it fits what he was looking for, he's not going to take it to poll. Generally speaking though, if you've looked through some of the older thread, he tries to take everyone to poll if he can - it gets harder the more entries are submitted.

But like I said earlier, the poll system is new and still being worked on, so your continued patience is appreciated. :)

[Scummy]

I understand this might be a case of a technical issue that translates as new rules for the activity. I don't understand the poll's problem... does it not allow the inclusion of more options? if so, then all these filters for inclusion are understandable, but i hope they are not permanent. And i also understand that part of something not fitting the brief. i have seen this activity and the others being self moderated by the members and how they tell each other in a friendly way: "hey, your entry does not fit the brief" and even like that, an entry sometimes makes it to its final state only to be rejected. that does explain some of the entries not being included though, but what about the ones that do fit the brief. I understand when the quality is so low, inclusion would be unacceptable, it happens in cow all the time even when there are few entries sometimes, but if they do fit the brief, they should be included in the poll, otherwise why is there a poll anyway, it should be up to oregano to pick a winner as the client

[S.C. Watson]

Thanks Daestwen.

Corotello - I owe you an apology. Your piece should have been in the advanced section. I didn't realize that I had made a mistake until after the poll had started and you had already started getting votes. Furthering compounding the mistake is that I'm just now getting around to apologizing, for which I feel terrible about. Thank you for your support and your kind words. I shall endeavor to not to make the same mistake again, with anyone.

All the best,
~Oreg.

[S.C. Watson]

I understand this might be a case of a technical issue that translates as new rules for the activity.

The CA polls are HARD CODED to allow a MAXIMUM of 50 entries. There are currently NO OPTIONS to change this. I chose 45 so we could have an even 15 entries in each category.

Anymore than that and I'd have to do TWO polls, as happened with the herald. This means that at 51 entries, there would be two polls.

This also means that I have to select the pieces that I feel are best suited for the CHOW for the given week.

For further clarification, please read this post if you have not (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1629967&postcount=126), or just simply scroll up.

If after Daestwens responses, and this response, you still do not feel that CHOW is fair, please feel free to join one of the many other great activities that Concept Art offers. I'm sure they'd be happy to have you.

All the best,
~Oreg.

[Scummy]

i already read the post you mention, it was placed in there after my posts i think, or around the same time. I also already joined the cow.

Anyway, i am just giving feedback like a bunch of other people did before me. On the fairness of the activity, few things in life are fair, but that wasn't the point of my comments. I was just pointing out that the selection seems arbitrary since I have no reason to suspect foul play.

[Mirana]

Damn! I have votes this week! I was going for dead last two challenges in a row. ;) Thanks for the couple of crits--I'm using CHOW as an excuse to try some different styles and every little bit helps. FYI Jinns are fire creatures so I tried to focus on that (and the "unlucky/evil" colored arabian) instead of the usual puff o' smoke. I'll try to set aside more time for the next challenge than I did this one.

[octopus_interphone]

I didn't expect to make the poll, I just didn't want to be a wuss out...

mickemao - yeah... I had something else in mind but didn't complete it.

anyways, the ones that got my vote were the ones I thought did something a little different with the topic

goog - I really like the colour choice and the costume, you could work on making the figure more dynamic though - her entire upper body is a straight line dead centre in the image.

Jrr- to me her expression isn't read as an evil one, but more of a "who me?!"

draxie - you have a great character here but I think it missed out simply because it doesn't have any colour.

vorace - love how she just oozes evil. There is a problem with the feet though, the toes on the left make it look like her pinky toe is the longest one and if you put both feet beside each other they wouldn't be simialr shapes and sizes.

cartello - way to whoop everyones ass.

daetwen - I love how you went with a different age. your colours work really well together but the shading on the girl makes it look like she has a terrible red rash :( poor child.

patricia - love where you took this :) the hand on the left sticks out to me because it's really oddlookin'

gwenevere - wow I'm amazed it was done in oils in a week, anyways I think the colours shouldn't be so seperate, like a bit more orange on the lion, more of the lions green colour on the rocks etc.

alice - you're my hero alice :) to me something is a little bit odd with the generic male's head, but I can't tell what... looovely linework.

[Tydal]

Thanks Daestwen.

Corotello - I owe you an apology. Your piece should have been in the advanced section. I didn't realize that I had made a mistake until after the poll had started and you had already started getting votes. Furthering compounding the mistake is that I'm just now getting around to apologizing, for which I feel terrible about. Thank you for your support and your kind words. I shall endeavor to not to make the same mistake again, with anyone.

All the best,
~Oreg.

Ahhh, All is good!! :hugsmile:

[Gwenevere]

gwenevere - wow I'm amazed it was done in oils in a week, anyways I think the colours shouldn't be so seperate, like a bit more orange on the lion, more of the lions green colour on the rocks etc.

Thanks for the crits... you're right of course. You have no idea how unfinished the background is by my own standards, I ended up doing the whole background the morning of the poll (ergh, that lion... I don't even want to think about that lion anymore... It was the last thing I did, scrambling at the eleventh hour...)

I still like the overall concept and costume on yours, but you're right in your own self-crit, it kind of got rushed and lost something towards the end. I like the direction the textured draperies are starting to take, and the overall color scheme works I think - but the handling looks unfinished (especially in the glowing special effects), and I wish her face were more defined... It seems some of the expression from the sketch got lost.

It'd be interesting to see what it turns into if you ever decide to go back and polish it up... I know I plan to go back and "finish" mine, that's for sure...

[carotello]

Thanks Daestwen.

Corotello - I owe you an apology. Your piece should have been in the advanced section. I didn't realize that I had made a mistake until after the poll had started and you had already started getting votes. Furthering compounding the mistake is that I'm just now getting around to apologizing, for which I feel terrible about. Thank you for your support and your kind words. I shall endeavor to not to make the same mistake again, with anyone.

All the best,
~Oreg.

No need to apologize, dude. Again, I appreciate the work you do getting this thing going, and what matters to me is participating and having fun.
Thanks all for your support. For those who are unhappy with the way the poll is working, I say just keep doing your best, and be happy with the fact that you did something and that gets you closer on the road to becoming a better artist.
:yayca: