Tools

[yoitisi]

This thread is open to everyone if you're interested in showing the tools you use and to compare them with others. I'll try to answer any questions you might have about the tools I use as well. Again, open for everyone so even if you're not one of my mentees feel free to ask :)

I would also encourage everyone to share you're own knowledge and experiences about markers, fineliners, pencils and whatever other tool you can come up with here.

I'll post the tools I use as well, not as a requirement for my mentees to buy but more to show them what I use in everyday life.

[yoitisi]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Next, a list of materials I use. Some of you might already have their own markers and stuff, which is great. For the others, I cannot force you to buy any of the following items. The reason I'm showing these is that I use them myself for my own work, so you have some direction of things you might want to get yourselves. If you've got question about whether a pencil will do the same or if you want to use a ballpoint pen, ask them :)

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t291/yoitisi/Finelinersmall.jpg http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t291/yoitisi/Finelinerplusgelpensmall.jpg

Stylist Fineliner & White Gelpen
The most important tool I use is a fineliner as shown above. This might seem daunting in the beginning, as there is no chance of erasing your lines and getting any difference in line thickness requires some experience. However, what it does do is forcing you to learn fast. In my experience, the ability to correct a mistake in a drawing without erasing the previous mistake teaches you a lot faster than drawing, erasing and draw again. I'll explain more about this in the first assignment, so don't worry for now. There is, however, one downside to using this tool: it will be effected by sunlight after some time. This means your drawing will fade in time if it's not kept in the dark. I haven't been able to find a fineliner I like that doesn't suffer from this problem, so I put up with it by scanning my work soon as possible.

If you've got another brand of fineliners, that's fine. Take care though, not all fineliners allow for easy line thickness changes. Pencils or Ballpoint pens are fine too, but I would recommend the use of a fineliner for now.

Next to the fineliner you can spot a white Gel pen, basically a quick method to put some sharp highlights in your drawing. A problem with this tool is that the opening gets stuck with dried up ink and the gelpen stops working properly, and it doesn't cover your drawing fully so it won't be really white. It is a quicker method than using paint to place highlights so I prefer this gel pen.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t291/yoitisi/Markersandrefillsmall.jpg http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t291/yoitisi/Pencilsanderasersmall.jpg

Copic Markers & Pencils
Having a couple of markers to start with is something I can recommend, as these provide a quick way to put in some shade and color. It takes while to get used to the medium though, but I'll explain this in the assignments. I used to have Letraset Pantone markers, but since the company changed from owner and they shifted to new markers and refills I work with Copic markers. The combination of a C3, C5 and C9 or C10 is already enough for most drawings. You can also opt for the warmer tones, I just prefer the slightly blue tone :) Again, the same effect can be reached with a pencil. Also included in the picture are the refills.

Next to the markers I put some examples of pencils I use. The black and white pencil are usefull to create a gradient in marker surfaces. The best pencils for this have hard points, as the soft pencils don't work strong enough. An eraser is also usefull sometimes :)

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t291/yoitisi/Pencilsandpastelsmall.jpg

Rembrandt Soft Pastels & Derwent Color Pencils
Last but not least: color pencils and pastels. I put up the brandname, but I'm not sure this will be sold all over the world so if you think of buying them you might have to find a substitute. Together with makers, the pastel provide a quick way of making gradients on surfaces and applying color to backgrounds etc. The same effect can be reached by using pencils though, and I assume most of you got at least some of those.

Paper
Ah I almost forgot something important: paper. Usually I work on A3 markerpaper. This paper has a sort of plastic coating on the back which prevents your markers form bleeding too much or bleeding through the page. Any other type of paper works just as well though, just keep in mind to put something under the page to catch the access of marker ink. I wouldn't recommend paper with a lot of grain, as this sucks the ink out of the fineliner and marker in no time. Then again, it is better if you choose to use pencil. The important thing is, the best size to work on is A3. Anything smaller will automatically make you draw smaller until your drawings start to become scribbles full of lines. Therefore, I recommend you lay your hands on some A3 or bigger sized paper :)

Computer & Photoshop or Painter
So, where is the computer actually involved in all this? Well, in the end, Photoshop is just a tool like any other. However, what traditional tools have over digital ones, is that there is no Ctrl-Z. This way, making mistakes will make you think twice about what you're doing. I believe it's also good to preserve your mistakes rather than cover them up by erasing things or painting over them. It'll make you learn faster in my experience. Don't be afraid though, as despite there being no Ctrl-Z, there often is a way to correct your drawings on the go so the end result still looks good. I will include some digital coloring as well in the end, but for now lets start out with traditional tools shall we? :)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[enrigo]

Yoitisi, what is the name of the fineliner you're using. Mine starts to run out of ink so I need to get some more new ones and I figured you must be using a good one ;)

[yoitisi]

The one I use is a Niji Stylist pen. I tried to google it to see if you can get it anywhere else, but I couldn't really find the exact fineliner I work with. Most fineliners work though, just take care what kind of point they have. It's not very clear in the photo above, but the sort of tip you see there is what you need to look for (1.0mm). There are some fineliners with a tip like those of a ballpoint pen but it is hard to get light lines from them.

[enrigo]

I end up buying a pen that makes jagged and small lines despite its big tip, and it sells by a dozen so now I have an infinite supply of annoying pen :ore:.

[yoitisi]

Enrigo: Could you maybe put up a photo of it? Or tell the brand and type so I can see what we're talking about here?

[enrigo]

It's a Pilot Fineliner pen
http://www.misterart.com/grouppix/280x210/000/g960.jpg
It doesn't tell how big the tip is but it looks bigger than the normal "ultra fine" pen.

[arttorney]

My markers are not where I am right now. I am getting this shading effect with a 6B pencil on its side, rub smooth with fingertip, erase what went outside the lines, brush away crumbs. (In case anyone has pencils but no markers and is on a budget).
285478

[yoitisi]

I'm currently in a cafeine rush so I can't make a staight line to save my :P Time for some answers and comments then :)

Enrigo: Shame I can't see the tip of the pen in that image, but anything slightly bigger than those superfine ones is great.

Arttorney: Yep you can basically get the same effect with pencils, it might take a little longer to block it all in though. Rubbing it out with your finger is not the best way though, as you rub some grease in it as well and it gets harder to rub out if you want to. There are blenders to do that I think, although I've never used them.

Hamtaro69: Hmm that's where the internet lacks, I always like to touch and feel the material to really tell what you can do with it :) From what I can see though, it looks rather greasy. For the things I use pastels for you'd need real soft and dry pastels. I'll explain what I do with it later on when we start using color, but color pencils can do the same job if used right.

I did some research on the Touch markers, and as far as I can see they're fine. In my experience though markers from different brands behave differently in small ways (my Letraset markers didn't dry fast which was great for blending and strong in the saturated colors, but Copics have a far greater and better range in the more desaturated colors. They also dry faster which makes blending more difficult, but have a grainy texture when they dry which I like). The important thing is that they are on alcohol basis, so you don't have to open all the windows to ventilate as was necessary with markers on benzeen basis. Never used those myself, but they used to be standard at my faculty and I've heard enough stories about people passing out during intense drawing sensions in a closed classroom :)

The fineliner I use has been selected after rigorous testing by my teachers to which one fits best to the technique we use :P It's true that you burn through them pretty fast if you draw regularly, I've got line 9 or 10 fineliners with me always, just so I don't run out. That Japanese one is great for drawing thin lines, but its much faster to get thin and thick lines from one fineliner as you don't have to change pen halfway through.

[asmodie]

Damn Schenker...the misplaced my order of my Niji Stylus pens :(

While I've been waiting I have tested these fineliners:
Copic Multiliner 1.0 - Bleeds to much and when I draw with the edges to make fine lines it quickly.
Sakura Pigma Micron 0.8 - Bleeds perfecty and doesn't dry up. Archival ink. Maby worth checking out if you want the ink not to fade over time

[yoitisi]

Asmodie: A couple of weeks ago we got a couple of those Copic Multiliners at our office, including the colored ones. I'll have to ask if they were any good, although I heard my boss already grumble about them :P I'll have to try the other one I think, haven't really spend much time yet on finding a good lightresitant fineliner.

[asmodie]

And the saga continues.

Got my Niji Stylist pens and they don't look like the pens you have. The thickness is about 0.5 or smaller.

For now I think my sakura pens are better suited for me.

[yoitisi]

Asmodie Hmm that kind of sucks. I only copied what was written on the pen, maybe I should've searched for the product itself as well. Still, just try out a couple and see what works best for you.

[asmodie]

The biggest difference with the pens is that mine doesn't have the same grip. The tip and everything looks the same.

I'll make a photo soon of all my fine liners :)

[ChaoticKnight]

Where did you get your white gel pen, if you dont mind me asking? I could really use one of those...

[arttorney]

Blick Art Supplies has them, so you can probably order online.

[yoitisi]

ChaoticKnight: I was going to say the local art store, but Arttorney saved my ass there :P

[arttorney]

Not so fast! In a quickie search in their marking pens area I only find the white ones in multi-packs with gel pens of other colors. In the brick and mortar Blick store in Pasadena I found them sold separately. Some serious searching around might be necessary for online, or else just buy a 5 or 8 pack of various colors.

There is a Pentel squeezable one sold alone which has a pen tip and says it is like a white-out pen. I guess that's the same general thing if it is not important for it to be a Stylist pen.

[yoitisi]

Arttorney: Hmm okay, I think it'll help if I put up the brand I use (although you might want to try out a couple as I'm not overly happy with mine at the moment :(). They're called 'Hybrid Gel Roller' by Pentel -there's some numbers on it too, 'K180' and 1.0 which is probably the thickness. The multipacks you mention will probably come with glitters and all I'm afraid :P

[arttorney]

http://www.dickblick.com/zz572/16/

is the Pentel one I found. It's called a "Presto" and kind of looks a little like a standard consumer thing rather than a super duper art pen.

[J Wilson]

One thought about pastels if you aren't familiar with them is they DO come in two kinds, oil pastels which are cheaper and more crayon like, and real soft chalk pastels (they aren't actually chalk, but compressed pigment with a small amount of binder). Sounds like Yoitisi wants chalk pastels, so avoid the oil ones at all costs as they won't act at all the same. Like paint, the good brands will be a lot more expensive because they are using better quality pigments to get richer color that mixes better.

As a side lesson about art materials (because I used to work at an art store) just about any time you are comparing brands and wondering why some are so much cheaper, it has to do with the pigments used. Lower quality materials have more filler and impurities which makes the colors less bright. Worse, when you mix several of the cheaper colors together all of those impurities muddy up the color much faster than you'd get with the better brands. The cleaner your source color, the better it all mixes and looks.

[yoitisi]

Arttorney: That's actually a correction pen for writing if I'm not mistaken :P It's not the one I use anyway. Let's see if I can find something.

The Dweller: Thanks for the info. I'm only using the softer chalky ones so don't know much about the oil pastels. Not sure where mine are on price comparison but as we recommend those to our students I suppose they ain't the worst out there.

[J Wilson]

On the topic of fine line pens I really like the Sakura Pigma Microns. Water proof, fade resistant, and they have a ton of different sizes. 005, 01 and 02 are my workhorse sizes, but they have up to 08 for those rare needs.

A few colors too, but I only use the black ones.

[enrigo]

http://www.dickblick.com/zz572/16/

is the Pentel one I found. It's called a "Presto" and kind of looks a little like a standard consumer thing rather than a super duper art pen.

That one looks like a normal white-out, I don't know if thats good because it's going to make some thick white surface on the paper if that's the case.

[spawner187]

hi yoitisi, i admire your art a lot, so i got here in the "tools" thread , i always thought that you need templates to do this kind of artwork , so i am wrong. we just need pens, pencils, pastels and a accurate freehand.

i acknowledge about the industrial design grid before, one mentor talked me about it , and also i saw it at my books i bought of Scott Robinson(start your engines & lift off) but i am having a hard time figuring out the sketch's ,well you know i am talking about the process for doing them. the point is i don't really know how to use it ...is pretty pathetic the way i use it hehehe...

maybe in other trhead i going to post a machine i draw ..if you don't mind it

i hope you can understand my lousy english thanks

[DarQraven]

The tools I personally use are:

Physical:

- Niji Stylist. The 'simple' version. I have tons of half-empty black ones lying around (since my family tends to use them as well for making grocery lists and flatten the point-_-) I also have a couple of mid-gray ones for making guidelines.
- A couple of Pilot fineliners, as in my experience they are better at making heavy lines. For thin lines they're not so good though, so I tend to switch fineliners.
- Copic markers. Currently C3, C5, 110, C9.
- Letraset ProMarkers for the colours. Can't read the color tags anymore due to ink spill:(
- White pencil for highlights

Digital:

- Wacom Intuos3 A3-sized drawing tablet.
- Photoshop obviously;)

[Khornate]

Is the Niji Stylist Pen 100 the one yoitisi is using? the 1.0mm one?

[7even.shades.ofblack]

hmm i didnt feel like reading the whole things so i think koh-i-noors are good fine liners and they have a good variety in sizes to and yeah i had to re learn that pencils dont have ctrl-z lol that was a learning curve

[7even.shades.ofblack]

http://www.dick-blick.com/items/210/03/21003-2007-2ww-m.jpg
thats what i use got that exact set