SCHOOLYARD - Post your daily studies - get the daily feedback!

[Oblio]

It seems that are more of us willing to learn and develop the skills.

LET THIS PLACE TO BE OUR DOME

Life drawing is surely the path to follow - post your studies here.
It's hard to go alone and it pays if we go together!
I'll post mine later - Who'll draw the first blood?

[Oblio]

http://members.fortunecity.com/afantana/9oct-s.jpg

MindCandy, Adam, Coriat, Orban and all the rest of you... let's show some studies!
Now.. about mine - hit me hard! :nopity: :bash:

Oblio

[Jason Manley]

oblio...i want you to start paying attention to the actual values (levels of light and dark) that you see in life. your images have a nice emotional quality but I would suggest you start to master the values of light and shadow...study what is in front if you...what often will look black is not...just a darker gray...what often looks light (toward the white) is just a lighter shade of middle gray.

I would like it if you made a value scale each time you start to make a new drawing for the next few weeks...get 8-10 shades from black to white. see how many different levels of value you can get from black to white. start with six...use the six values in your value scale to make your image...the light in your still life will fall from middle value on your scale toward white. the shadows will be from middle value on your scale until it gets toward black.

ask questions if you need me to clarify anything.

DRAW THE LIGHTS AND SHADOWS....LOOK CLOSER. your drawing is accurate in placement to a higher degree. now it is time to master your values.

how many different values can you see in the light? how many values in the shadows? do some values happen both in the light and also in the shadow? (reflect light and halftone transition light perhaps)


jason

[Adam]

i'm gonna stick my studies under 'starting again' out in this same forum, just cuz i get confused easily when navigating 34 pages of pics :) (ex. the self-portraits thread) - there will be new work on that thread every day though i promise!! viva la art...or...yes. :)

Adam

[Switch]

I think it's good how your hatching follows the contours of the objects. But work on your tone it's SO important.

Help this thread along:
http://images.deviantart.com/large/indyart/freehand/hand_studyz.jpg

Just pencil and paper.
Crits?

I'm 21, Graphics Student, and recently realised the importance of life drawing.

[Switch]

Jason: could you please explain 'half tone transition light'

more hand studies coloured in photoshop:

http://images.deviantart.com/large/indyart/freehand/hand_studyz_2.jpg

[Jason Manley]

there are 6 basic parts to light

mass light ... the large area in the light...the big shape of lights

halftone transition light...the darkest part of the MASS LIGHT...the darkest "lights"...the darkest part of the field of light hitting an object...often times this occurs right where the forms start turning away from the light and act as a transition value toward the mass shadow...SEE REFLECT LIGHT as it is often the same value.

high lights....the lightest part of the light

mass shadow... the large shape of darks

core shadow...the darkest part of the shadow...happens where the form turns completely away from the lightsource.

reflect light/fill light....the lightest part of the shadow mass...often is the same value as the HALFTONE LIGHT...depending on what is reflecting of course.


that is a basic formula to go by when creating forms...and light sources....three values in light...three values in shadow...granted it gets much more subtle in real life and can be seperated into more values but overall this is the general breakdown of it. be sure your forms have these properties.

can anyone show me an example on some forms of this kind of lighting???????


j

[Oblio]

*runs and wake up everyone in the house*
Thank you Jason. Good feedback will ensure the success of this thread.
I will try to get that 6 values one tonight - I plan to use painter in order to be able to stick to those 6 values.
Is it ok or should I go with the pencils?
I've tried to draw the values as good as i could yet without a value range - just... hmm darker here... lighter there. I think i need some logic and knowledge into it. Thank you again Jason.

@Switch - wow. Thx for contribution. Good drawings make a good thread too :) Seeing your hatching makes me think twice about placing a line on the paper. I'll sharpen my pencils!
Sorry - no crits! :)


Oblio

P.S. - I've got the feedback. Did you? :p

[MindCandyMan]

Jason: I have been drawing for about 3 1/2 weeks and I am having a hard time with exactly what you were describing to Oblio. I feel the constant urge to push harder with my pencil. And I can't figure out how to crosshatch and achieve a subtle transition between the darks and the lights. Is there anything you could suggest that would help, books, other art, etc...? Thanks for caring about us newbies in here too! I look at your dark elf tutorial almost every day. Not because I think I am capable of painting it but just because I love that image so much hehe.


These are some I posted before.

This is an apple I did in painter 7.

http://www.phantomarts.co.uk/freeimagehosting/Apple2web.jpg



I cheated on this self portrait...I used a high contrast picture of me as a sort of tracing paper in photoshop to see the values but it helped me learn so that was good.

http://conceptart.org/forums/


I drew my hand on the train with a ball point pen.

http://www.phantomarts.co.uk/freeimagehosting/Drawing25_hand.jpg

Tree Trunk

http://www.phantomarts.co.uk/freeimagehosting/Drawing18TreeTrunk.jpg

Squirrels


http://www.phantomarts.co.uk/freeimagehosting/Drawing%2019_20_Squirrels.jpg

[MindCandyMan]

Switch those are totally awesome. Wow you have a real control over your strokes...is there any advice you can give to me to help me control my pencil stroke better...I am having a hard time...I would greatly appreciate it!

[coriat]

sorry for posting so late :-) oblio's first post with his studies seems a bit desperate, like: come on! plz post! :-)

just kidding :rolleyes: :D :cool:

i'm still a litle busy with school, so i don't have the time to draw as much as i would want to, but here goes:
i tried to draw 2 skulls from another drawn reference, so i did not learn anything in terms of how do i draw something... i did learn how a skull looks, so thats also good i s'pose...
when i get the money around i'll see if i can find a good plastic skull somewhere :cool:
http://home.hccnet.nl/henk.middendorp/jurjen/tekeningen/schedel%20zijkant.JPG

and the front:
http://home.hccnet.nl/henk.middendorp/jurjen/tekeningen/schedel%20voorkant.jpg

and the muscles of the face:
http://home.hccnet.nl/henk.middendorp/jurjen/tekeningen/schedel+spier%20voorkant.jpg
this one didnt really work out well, i'm going to do a lot more of them - face-muscle-studies :-)

okiee, crits...if i'm allowed to give them, since i'm not very good myself:rolleyes:

-mindcandy... i love those squirrels and the apple good coloring on it! i wish i tried as much coloring as you did :-) where the hell do you find the time to practice so much! very good!
the tree is a bit off-perspective, that plane at which they saw it looks like it stands upright. also if you are painting nature-things ( :) ) try to find an easy to draw texture to slap on the outlines...i'm not really clear on this, right? well if you can find a litle book by Felix Lorenzo, called "drawing nature" he will explain it there.

as for the portrait, it looks very good if you just started drawing 3 weeks ago! try to have a bit better look at anatomy and proportion, the right ear seems to be falling of your head :)

as for books, i can recommend drawing the heads and hands by andrew loomis (freely available at fineart.sk (http://www.fineart.sk) ).


-ob&switch: looking gooooooood! post more :-)

ok, next stop: drawing hands and arms, tomorrow!

bye all

[Oblio]

Indexed bmp - Photoshop. 6 values.
http://members.fortunecity.com/afantana/10oct-s3.bmp

I think i should have kept the white and the black only for accents, right? And.. no hatching. I mean.. it's like I’ve inserted new values.
If this is wrong.. i'll do others (I’ll do them anyway).
Anyway.. today was one of the worst days of the year for me so.. my mind could have been in other places :(
Jason... which way?

I've sketched "some hand" at job:

http://members.fortunecity.com/afantana/mana2.jpg

http://members.fortunecity.com/afantana/mana1.jpg

These are about my first attempts to drawing hands (i've done another one very ugly before those)


Feedback time: :evilbat:

@coriat - desperate? Sure I was :D (anyway.. today paid back more then i can take) try pictures for reference - not drawings. This as a general rule :) (except for master copies)
Also get some softer pencils and work your contrast more. Try more outline drawings with a marker. You know... ;)

@MindCandy - try to follow Jason's advice - B&W, 6 values! You need to work your form & Shape. Next SP try a low poly approach! Simplify the form in order to get a better volume & so. (argh - bad English)

Come on people - the day is young! Draw draw draw...

Oblio

[jester]

@Oblio - great idea. As with the sp thread, I think I just jump in. As for your studies: Compared to your sp's your hand drawing is really... ehm, err, simple? You can certainly do better. The re-doing of your still-life isn't bad but you have observed your mistake yourself, doing that hatching which created another tone. Hope you don't mind my frankness.

@Jason - great to see professional advice here. Since you all are very busy, we learners have to say thank you for taking the time!

@Switch - good rendering of your hands. Hands are a great subject and I'll post some of mine in the future, too.

@MindCandyMan - nice to meet you here, too. :) The rendering of the apple is quite good. When applying what you know from drawing/painting there you can also apply to your self portraits. The tree trunk has a few good parts (the roots), but the sawn off top looks off. Watch out for the perspective and the shadow/light relation. The squirrels are nice. What did you use for reference? I did some squirrel sketches this summer, too, using a VCR and hitting the stop button when they showed a nice pose. This gave me 3 minutes for a fast sketch. I might post them later.

@coriat - welcome to the club. I'm also looking for a cheap but still anatomically correct skull. What one gets at the moment with Halloween appoaching are just sort of caricatures (at least here).

This is my light-dark study from yesterday, after reading Jason's advice from earlier in this thread.

http://www.jester.de/gallery/sketch/syard-001.JPG

[MindCandyMan]

I was trying more for perspective on this one than specifically looking like me. It's so hard to draw any part of the human form.


http://www.phantomarts.co.uk/freeimagehosting/Drawing_29_SPweb.jpg



This next one was a perspective study that I did in response to a section in Loomis' drawing the head and hands...learned a lot.

http://www.phantomarts.co.uk/freeimagehosting/Drawing 30 Perspective Study.jpg



Man I am having a lot of trouble with my self portraits. I am going to keep trying because it is frustrating me that I suck so much at them. Thanks for the constant tips on my self portraits Jester they are great!...they help a lot.

Jester - Man I love this study that you did! Those pumpkins and gourds (spelling?) are really good. I especially like the rendering on the back left one (the biggest one). That one looks really good. Great job man! Keep posting your stuff. As far as the reference for the squirrels...I used a picture out of a drawing book. I drew those like 2 weeks ago. That thing with the vcr sounds fun hehe.

Oblio - If that's your worst night this year then you are doing good. The first hand is really good. I thought that was captured really well. Maybe go a little bit lighter with your tones but great job! I am gonna try that "6 tone" study tonight. I will set some stuff on my desk and paint it and see how it comes out.

Coriat - Good job with the skull. That's a good study...I am gonna have to get one for myself...a skull to draw that is...I really like the profile one. I think that one is the best of the three. Thanks for the heads up on the books and such I downloaded drawing heads and hands...looks great. I will have to dive into that book! As far as finding time to practice...I work full time and am going to school three nights a week. Basically I have written off tv, video games, etc... because I want to be committed to getting better at art. So all my free time goes to that. My wife is also really supportive so that helps. She does so much for me to allow me to pursue my goals. She is awesome!

[LoTekK]

haven't got a working scanner here, but i'll post up some stuff i did for drawing class (mostly charcoal, and recently conte+charcoal)... oblio, for getting value practise, try charcoals... grab yourself some vine charcoal, and some compressed charcoal for the ultra darks... one thing i've learned to love about charcoal (as opposed to pencil) is the comparative speed with which you can build up your areas of dark, especially when working with large formats...

another thing to try is to grab yourself some white conte crayon and some grey paper, and use the white in conjunction with vine and compressed charcoal... both methods, remember to make yourself a value chart... the usefulness is immeaasurable...

i'll post up some stuff once i get my hands on a scanner and digital camera (most of the charcoal pieces are pretty large, anywhere from 14"x17" to 18"x24"

[bM_]

Hey i stumbled in on this great thread.
It was a while since i did traditional stuff.
I don't know why.. im slowly starting again.

here is something i did last week for relaxation.
And hands seem to be popular :)

http://www.hit.se.org/dump/traditional/hand.jpg



And here is some old stuff i found in a temp:

http://www.hit.se.org/dump/traditional/axe.jpg

http://www.hit.se.org/dump/traditional/nalf_mosquito_head.jpg

http://www.hit.se.org/dump/traditional/nalf_mosquito_head2.jpg

[Oblio]

I guess it will work easyer if we do all the same thing due a week or so (depending on how anyone feels)
I'll say let's go with Jason (since i've always been following his word as much as I could ;) ) and do 6 value sketches.
Now.. I hate to post the same pic. 2 times on the forum but today i've had some.. troubles and felt like doing a SP.
Anyway it's small gif.

[Adam]

i relaly like that oby - that looks a lot more natural, as far as the lighting!!

[Oblio]

ANY GOOD?

Oblio

[coriat]

I did some hands (it's supposed to be hands anyway) today... here is1 of the 3 pages i did...i'm trying to conserve my web -space as i only have 10 Mb at my (my dad's) current server (he has the other 15 :( ) does anyone know a good free server with some space? even 5 Mb will do ...?

hands:
http://home.hccnet.nl/henk.middendorp/jurjen/tekeningen/handen.jpg
the lower hand looks pretty good (i think) only the thumb looks weird (yes, foreshortening IS a crime! ).

mindcandy: that last sp is looking a lot better then the others you've posted before that (pretty logical know i think of it :D). You're getting better, fast! If you can keep it up, you'll be good in no time, while i'm still struggling in my own non-existing-newb level...
Those loomis heads are also going the good way... try to pay more attention to the construction-lines..some features look misplaced... and try to stick with outlines ... shading is explained at page 50 of his book or something :)

ob: good study...you sure know where to place shades on the head. nice! and i don't have a marker..i'll go buy a good one sometime this week... but i don't really need one, because i have no eraser anymore :(

bM_ : welcome, nice job on the hand, i don't really know what those last 2 pictures are to be....i fly with a smoke i suppose...?
try to only post LIFE-drawings here:chug:

be back soon, y'all..

and, ...
oh yeah: candy... you're my new inspiration together with ob and andrew...
the amount of time and dedication you and oblio show to drawing and painting is :eek:-inspiring...and android is just really good :cool:

[Oblio]

hey coriat - nice ones! try a low poly approach! Simp[lify the form!
once again:
IT WILL WORK BETTER IF WE ALL DO THE SAME THINGS AT ONCE

Anyway - I'll keep busting my ass on values until i hear from Jason or until i'll loose my faith and end my days :p

@BM_ - nice to have ou around!
Show some more. Try this value thing.. i'll try to assist you as much as i can!

Again - a SP. Any good J?

[Switch]

---Jason:

Thankyou, I'll read that explanation a few times so it sinks in. I need diagrams for that sort of thing. :P


---MindCandyMan:

I've always had a naturally steady hand but i'll share my thoughts on this:

I think good lines and strokes has a lot to do with confidence.

Sometimes I'll just lightly scribble before I do a picture just to loosen up. I think your whole arm has to be relaxed.

Don't grip the pencil too hard and as you draw a line. Don't watch the led of the pencil as it creates the line. Dont stick your face right up to the pencil, try to take in the whole section of picture as you draw.

If you can't get line right the first time then build it up slowly. (I do that a lot).

When hatching the direction of your strokes can be very important. Look at the tiny lines of skin on your hand. See the direction they go and how they wrap around the form. Imitate that.

I can't draw a straight line very well but it doesn't matter they don't exist anyway apparently. Thats what rulers and computers are for.

that's all i can think of for now.

--- I'll try out the 6 tone exercise. Let's try to work on the same thing like Oblio said to. We'll learn more.

[foster]

Hello all,
I just wanted to add this in addition to what Jason said.

There are different keys, high and low and variations on each, which a picture can have. What determines keys are value groupings. Not so much the location of values next to each other (although it does come into play) but the amounts of each in a piece. Sometimes you don't go all the way to white or to black for that matter. Perhaps you start low on the value scale and only venture half way up, but still working with your six values. You will see that you can drastically change the feel of a painting or drawing by changing the proportions of values to each other.

Look at black and white photography magazines or books and try to identify the various value groupings and how they make you feel. Then try these in your work.

when working from life you have a ready-made model in front of you dictating the value proportions but you can always take some liberties to push in one direction or another. When you are drawing for your concepts or just for yourself, you are the initial dictator of the key. Think about what you want people to get from your work and what values will best communicate that feeling.

The image I attached is just some of the groupings I came up with.

Experiment!

Jon

[Switch]

The tones i did in this old study make me feel calm:
http://images.deviantart.com/large/indyart/freehand/ptracticing.jpg


When we do the 6 tone exercise should we blend those 6 tones or keep them sharp like oblio is doing?

[Oblio]

Thank you Jon... I just had a revelation after reading your reply.
You can't imagine how much you help. I hope to prove it tonight.

@switch - i guess that blending them after you're done is ok. Same with the hatching - if done after the 6 values are in the "final" place. Blending and hatch creates intermediary values - I’ve kept them sharp in order for Jason or Jon or any other eye to see if I am doing it right or wrong.

Oblio

[MindCandyMan]

Wow Jon thanks so much for posting that. I am gonna try that out tonight. That's really awesome. Wow...this is the greatest. We are getting lessons from Jon Foster. I love it. Thanks again...I will put this into practice tonight. This is so awesome...(ok maybe I am overreacting) but it is just awesome to be reading through spectrum last night and drooling over jon's work and then to come in this morning and read a post of his. That is cool.

Switch: Those look amazing. Wow...awesome work. I think I am gonna take a break from portraits/self portraits (since I can't even draw a cube, sphere, etc....right. I can't wait to try this stuff out tonight.

Here are some images from the weekend guys. I think I am going to do what you are doing Oblio...I am not going to mix tones at all. I am just gonna use the straight values...that's a good idea.

http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/donkeyboy/stupidnon-lookalikeselfportrait.jpg

http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/donkeyboy/drawing31selfportrait.jpg

http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/donkeyboy/drawing30selfportrait.jpg

http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/donkeyboy/drawing36_littlegirl.jpg


These next three were really quick pastel studies...like 2 - 3 minutes each...the last one is not of me but I just was having fun drawing a nameless man.

http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/donkeyboy/drawing34pastelsp_5_min.jpg

http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/donkeyboy/drawing34pastelsp_2_min.jpg

http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/donkeyboy/drawing33pastelstudy.jpg

[Oblio]

here goes another exercise. I've tried to put more logic into it and use my eye only as a guide. so.. i've tried to exagerate the values to this point:

Made with lights on:
http://conceptart.org/forums/

Made with lights off
http://conceptart.org/forums/


I'm not too happy with those. I'll put more work on this thing! Thx again Jason and Jon. You are helping me doing steps - otherwis I would have been wondering through lines forever (do I make any sense?)

MindCandy - work your form - you need more discipline into that. Work on planes. Try to loose that hairy style...
You asked how i start - now i'm just placing splashes of values working with a big brush but at first i was starting with the eyes - a la Andrew. It's a good way to start your SP's.
Also work more on simple shapes - cubes, cilinders straight and in perspective. It helps a lot in nderstanding form.


Ok... I remind you who want to learn from the bes is welcome here too! :D :chug:

Oblio

[Soupy]

Here's a quick sketch i did while my mom's dog was asleep on her lap:

sketch (http://www.geocities.com/lavahed2000/sketch6.html?1034521073765)

[foster]

Ha! Mindcandyman you make me blush! The truth is that writing these things down for you helps me as well. And sometimes i feel like i need all the help in the world. And all of you, ALL OF YOU, contribute something for me and everyone on this site.

Oblio, wonderful! The only thing that comes close to your insuppressible need to learn is your incredible ability TO learn!

Switch, they make me calm too, and i need that right now. But beyond the calm, nice job on the painting. I am now a little embarrassed by my spheres.

If or when i ever have any new insight i will most definitely share.

Jon

[MindCandyMan]

I tried out some of the stuff you suggested Jon...I tried it out using spheres so I could have a point of reference with the ones you posted. Everyone please please criticize me...I want to get better. Oblio...I love that you tell me the truth. Keep doing that...if it stinks...tell me...I appreciate the tact and politeness you show when you do it as well.

Here are the spheres with different light scenarios:

http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/donkeyboy/practicingvalues.jpg


Here is my newest self portrait...I was trying to work on proportions more because that is my major downfall for sure.

Jon: Is there a good way to map out the face in order to get good proportions...I have been drawing for about 4 weeks and am finding that I have been making the same proportion mistakes for like a week and a 1/2...I don't want to form a bad habit...thanks for all your help.

http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/donkeyboy/drawing32sp_proportionstudy.jpg

[Oblio]

don't laugh - i've tried to push a bit the form, the values (it was dark in the room - again), and to guess a bit my skull... it's hard when it's empy.

http://members.fortunecity.com/afantana/15oct.gif


Now.. this has to have some major flaws.. i can feel it... yet, too tiered to spot them.
What does it need.. background? That nose is too singular (too much contrast? - i wanted to see it popping in the front appart from the rest of the face).. i don't know.. maybe the initial black sketch lines shouldn't be here anymore... :help:

Oblio

[jester]

Oblio, the symmetry is off but the sketchlines are rather giving it a charming character - but maybe this wasn't what you were aiming at. The nose "pops" - so not too bad, really!

Jester

[Soupy]

Let me post this again. The link wasn't getting feedback.

This is a quick sketch I did of my moms dog asleep on her lap when we were watching tv:

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/soupy/lilli2.jpg

Whaddya' think? :D

[foster]

Mindcandyman, i have not ignored your request. I have just been trying to firm up my thoughts on measuring proportions in a portrait. I am always a bit jumbled in my approach to these things so this has proven to be a little more extensive in planning than i thought. I am almost there just don't want to lead you astray with bad advice or poorly cribbed technique from anther sources that would explain it better. I will definitely list those sources.

I should post all this tomorrow.

Thanks

Soupy, i like your dog drawing. It has a tremendous sweat factor to it. But i would pay more attention to lighting and value as well as varying your line widths. All this will give it a little more energy and weight.

Jon

[prismacolor]

Really great learning thread Oblio. I'd love to be able to add some things...maybe just some examples to help support what Jason and Jon are saying.

Great explanation of values and value "key" -
http://www.fineart.sk/loomis/page_04.htm

one of my own practice pics using a 9 tone scale:
http://www.digitallaprima.com/forum_images/mg_man1.jpg

some things that might be worthwhile (or not) on my own site in the workshop section:
http://www.digitallaprima.com/wkshp_valgame.html
http://www.digitallaprima.com/wkshp_digflesh.html
(please note the digital flesh stuff is just an experiment)

One of the practice things I do each day is to work with "shapes" not lines, and try to limit myself to 3-4 basic tones -- light, halftone, shade and background. Here is a recent example I picked at random. It's amazing how few tones and shapes it takes to create something recognizable:
http://www.digitallaprima.com/forum_images/TALK1.JPG

I hope something here can help, if not, just ignore. Just trying to communicate some of the things I wish I'd been told earlier on...

[MindCandyMan]

Prismacolor - Wow holy cow I bookmarked your site right away...what a complete resource!!!!! I even downloaded the color set for painter and everything. Also I was able to locate "Painting with Opaque watercolors" on the internet for 13 dollars total so I am putting in a request for it as we speak. I figure I will need it later and since you recommended it so highly I went for it. That first post is amazing too! Wow you really have a handle on values...sheesh...great work! That's also a very interesting study that you posted...the one with the simple shapes and values. I am definitely going to try to practice that as well. Wow thanks so much that was a great post...very helpful.

foster - BTW "Jon" IS the correct spelling for our name. I don't know how many times people spell it "John"...but I digress hehe...Don't worry at all about not responding right away. I know you are really busy. I am just so thankful that you take the time away from your (wife, kids, family, etc...) to answer questions for a nobody like me. I will reassure you though that your help isn't in vain. Look for me in 10-15 years...I will be tearing up these boards. Thanks so much for getting all that info for us. We GREATLY appreciate it. I know I speak for everyone on this forum when I say that. Just posting your work is enough to help us out...you are going above and beyond...so thanks! :)

Oblio - I like this newest SP it's awesome hehe. The head looks skewed to the right a bit to me. And there is something weird about the eyes...maybe the placement? Also the nose is a little off in placement. It's hilarious though I love the lines you drew around the mouth ehheehe. Great work man...You are getting tremendously better...keep it up!

Soupy - Great work on the dog sketch! I would have to agree with Jon though. I think the light source is a little confused in it...by that I mean that I can't really tell where the light source(s) are coming from because the shading is a little weird. Keep it up though...post any of your studies here. Good work!



Here's my latest stuff...the first is my newest self portrait. The second is just practicing those values again to help understand the way light is reacting...these aren't that good but I think I am starting to understand.



http://conceptart.org/forums/



http://www.phantomarts.co.uk/freeimagehosting/Practicing Values_2.jpg

[foster]

O.K. get comfortable in front of your mirror. Look straight into the mirror for now, later we will do three quarter shots and perspectives on the head. As you are looking straight at the mirror have the light in front of you, above and to one side or the other. Now move your head up and down as in a nod, stop when the tops of your ears are level with the horizontal line of your eyes. Drawing a line from outer corner of one eye to the outer corner of the other makes this line. I only say this as a suggestion, there are many landmarks to register but the corners of the eyes seem more apparent and easy to pin point. Now that your ears are in line with the eyes you know how to hold your head after you have looked away and are coming back to the pose. You can do this with any pose you just need to line up different parts of the face etc. A nice place to start the drawing (not the only) is the eye. Since you can measure the eye width and the eyes are usually one eye width apart you can begin to have clues where to put the second eye. Now there are many books that give you the standard proportional measurements of the head and face and I will list some in this letter. But for now I would like you to take your eye measurement and find these out for your own face. How I do this. I hold my arm with pencil straight out in front of me, elbow locked as to not change the distance from my eye to hand. Using the end of the pencil I place it at one corner of the eye reflection in the mirror and crop the pencil with my thumb at the other corner of the eye. Viola. You have a measurement of the width of you eye, move this over to check for yourself the distance between your two eyes (in the mirror). Move it down to see if the base of your nose is the same as the width of your eye or slightly different. How far is it from the outside corner of your eye to the perceived side of your head? Turn the pencil and see how long your nose is compared to the width of your eye. Anyway you get the idea that you can use your eye width as a unite of measure (or ear, or mouth or nose etc.). One eye width. Three eye widths, one and half eye widths. Start to lie in you land marks, base of nose, corners of mouth bottom of ears etc. The more land marks you lay in the better you can pin point other landmarks. (Note that the unite of measure you have for your drawing need not be the same size as the measurement in the mirror. (Think of it in terms of scaling). Finding these you may find it very useful to drop a plumb line from landmarks to see where they line up with others. Plumb lines are always straight up and down no matter the tilt of you head that is where the constant comes in. Drop a vertical line down from the inside corner of the eye. See where it lines up with the outside base of the nose. See how the mouth is a little larger. All these measurements change in small degrees from person to person. You can lie in horizontal lines to see where the ears line up with landmarks. Or when the face is tilted and turned away you can better tell to what extent by visualizing the angle against your horizontal. You continue on this way measure against measure and eventually you will fall right into the portrait. It takes time and patience but revel in your precision and growing knowledge of anatomy. The more you do it this way the better you will be able to skip some of this later as you will be doing it innately. But let me add many professional artists ALWAYS MEASURE!

In the portrait example I have included I have marked up some of the lines I use to find my way.

Red- are the vertical or plumb lines.

Blue- horizontal lines

Green- are angles I measured with my outstretched arm and pencil. You can hold the angle and super impose it on you drawing or it may just help you see how extreme or subtle the angle is compared to the horizontal or vertical.

Yellow- is the width of the eye

Seeing negative shapes instead of the positive seems to help in the measurement of proportion and angle. Don?t know why, but people seem to be able to gage angles and shapes better in the negative shape. The negative area is for example the empty space that is made when a person puts their hands on their hips. But it need not be a contained space it can just be the outside area of a shape. It can be difficult in this case to see. You need to look to the emptiness around and object as a shape and then see its outlines and proportions.

OR You could start by lightly roughing in the solid shape of your head and neck, use the negative space around to find angles and shapes. Measure and put in the ear. Then start to measure everything from there and put in your landmarks. This way is good as it allows you to see the placement of the head in the composition first.

There are many, many ways to start and all are good. Find one that works for you. The key point is coming up with ways to measure. When you have this down there is no pose that will give you trouble.

One last note. This is my approach to drawing from life. When I draw from my head (imagination) I use another set of guidelines to help in creating the structure.

The last picture I post hear has large shadow areas blocked in green. Seeing these shapes first off can also be very helpful in structure and placement.

I mix up all these ways when drawing my portraits and it changes with each new drawing.

Books

Drawing the head and figure by Jack Hamm published by the Berkley Publishing Group. This one is good for hints and tricks for drawing from your imagination but it also help inform you on the general construction of the head.

The artist?s complete guide to facial expression by Gary Faigin published by Watson-Guptill Publications. Just an all around wonderful resource.

Any books by George B. Bridgman!

Hope it helps.

Jon

[foster]

here is ref. 2

[Adam]

that last sphere on the bottom right is starting to look a lot more natural - keep it up!!!

[jester]

Jon - this is one of the best instructions on how to measure while life drawing and (never got this hint before but only worked it out for myself at the beginning ofthis week) how to get back into a pose after a break. I have read LOTS of books. And I had some life drawing classes, but this is great. Thanks very much!

:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

:chug:

Jester

[Oblio]

We are learning from the verry best :bow:
Thank you Jon, thank you prisma... i'll work more tonight.
Nothing special now.. just... a messy pencil study.

http://members.fortunecity.com/afantana/16oct.jpg

Oblio

[MindCandyMan]

Jon - Thankyou soooooooooooo much for posting that. That is REALLY REALLY helpful. I just got to dive into it and read it today. Wow I am copying it to a Word document and saving it. Thanks so much. We appreciate all your help immensely.


I felt like total crap last night...so this self portrait is a by product of that. Don't ask about the halo and the chalkboard thing...I have no idea...it was late and I didn't feel good. I have no other explanation hehe.

Here's my disproportionate self portrait:

http://conceptart.org/forums/

[Wetterschneider]

Here are a couple of recent studies, reffed from the cheesy movie "Imposter". I've been doing still-frame pencil protraits for a while, and figured that making quick color paintings might be even more helpful in the long run. The lighting in this movie is very exagerated, but right on for illustrative purposes.

http://conceptart.org/forums/images/imported/2002/10/69.jpg

http://conceptart.org/forums/images/imported/2002/10/70.jpg

[Oblio]

welcome Wetter - lovely stuff. Nice to have you around here too..
Here is my contribution for today:

http://members.fortunecity.com/afantana/ceai1.jpg http://members.fortunecity.com/afantana/ceai2.jpg
Some diferent light setup and.. photoshop values.
I've done some reading about values thx. to prisma's links.
Now I'm a bit confuse... i guess it will all come to me in time. Maybe too much info for one day... i'm not sure i did right.. in the end i've just went trusting my eyes - no more theory i've said. I know it's not the way but i had a burned out brain... can't you tell? :drool:

So... new directions for the :hothead:? :help: :D

Oblio

[Wetterschneider]

http://conceptart.org/forums/images/imported/2002/10/71.jpg

Another color study from "Imposter". I'm not going out of my way to make an exact likeness, so in case you're wondering this actor is the ever-enjoyable Tony Shaloub.

I've got to say, there is a lot to learn from a little freeze-frame action.

[Oblio]

great stuff wetter... i'll try this too when i'll grow.
The part under the lower lip seems... too flat. might be the strong light though...

http://members.fortunecity.com/afantana/ceai3.jpg

How about mine? Any good? I'm not sure i'm on the right track here :help:

Oblio

[MindCandyMan]

I hate the human face.... Yeah so I read all the way through Jon's helpful post and obviously I butchered everything it said in there. Arrrgghhhhh...try again tonight.


http://www.phantomarts.co.uk/freeimagehosting/Drawing 39 Self Portrait.jpg


Oblio: Those pitchers or jugs or whatever are amazing. That shows a huge improvement. Wow I was really floored when they loaded...great job man.

Wetter - Your studies are amazing...really great job man. I love the pose of that guy holding the sword...his lower lip looks a little weird but I love the pose. Great job! The coloring on the other two was amazing as well. I like the second guy's (with the red behind him) shiny highlights on his face...nice touch. And the eyes on this last one really grab me. I love your stuff.

[prismacolor]

Jon - thanks for taking the time to provide such good insight! But now you've piqued my curiosity about how you approach measurement on imaginary subjects :)

oblio - those pitchers are quite a jump! Great stuff, keep going -- it shows that you're improving dramatically in your "observation" skills; the most important skill of any artist.

Mind' - the last one, especially, shows great improvement too, even if you don't think so...hard work does pay off...
If you can get your hands on a copy of the book "Keys to Drawing" it has a series of very good exercises to help build your observation/analysis skills. Although there are many good books to choose from this one is both reasonably priced and well-recognized.

It's a blessing and a curse for all artists who strive to be better, no matter what you know -- there's always more to be known and you can never quite achieve what your vision or goal is. It does keep you going tho'...

I'm short on time right now, but if I get a chance next week I'll make a mini-tutorial or two from Kevin Macpherson's book and Andrew Loomis to expand a little on what Jon has done so well -- light and shade -- observation and measurement.

[cmortier2002]

Here is my drawing on paper with a set of pencils.
The scan is bad for the simple reason that it's not a scan (I don't have a scanner) but a digital picture, so imagine that the paper is white and not grey...;) It take me 2 hours to do it.
http://www.ifrance.com/cmortier/drawing/009fruit.jpg

[cmortier2002]

A color study, only 3 colors.
http://www.ifrance.com/cmortier/drawing/0102colorspaint.jpg

[Oblio]

values again - here goes a white thingy with a black thingy and an apple... mostly red, assoc. by me with a middle value thingy.

9 values ( am i allowed or should i stick to 6? Jason?)

http://members.fortunecity.com/afantana/ceai4.gif

@cmortier... very nice chery branch... yet if you look everithing in your drawing has about the same value (my new obsession). I guess the fruits were darker then the leafs.. and so on. Gen softer pencils for them or try working indexed like me. The mmount of work there is beautifull...

Oblio
P.S. - I know i should have put more work on it but... i've... I... :zzz: ... and he had a ye..l..low pencil... :drool: then the car was flying... :drool: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:

[cmortier2002]

Oblio : thanks for the comments, I will try the 6 values.:)

[coriat]

i'm frustrated to an even higher degree then when i did my sp :rolleyes:

well, ok it's not THAT bad, but it's still a fact that working on 15 spheres and not 1 of them looks like a sphere can be pretty ...well, you know...it sucks...or something :)

this is the first time doing something like this...i'm of the "let's start doing difficult things first and then move on to the easier ones and then re-learning everything again"-type
so the first thing i ever drew was a head :) lots of them....
there i go agian :mumble:

here's the block and the 15th (or something.... let's be honest, 6th) sphere:
http://home.hccnet.nl/henk.middendorp/jurjen/tekeningen/blok%20en%20vierkantje%201.JPG


@oblio: yes, i think you're on the right track...but i think your studies can use a more defined lighting, now it's just guessing where the light comes from...like in real life :D
but i don't know what i'm talking about.

@mindcandy: getting better... :)

@mr. foster: wooooooot!! thanks! great article :chug:

@cmortier: hi. :D i don't know much to crit, i'm a newbie myself.... keep it up...
1 thing... at that 3 colour study of a beach with hills and stuff... try to first draw the background and then the foreground...it doesn't matter if you color "over" the lines you can clean that up later. If you color to carefully, you end up having white edges between colors... in you drawing: where the sky hits the hills are some white spots...
but if that was done on purpose, my apologies, i haven't said a thing.:rolleyes:

:chug::chug:

[cmortier2002]

coriat : The color painting is hills with water and in the foreground, this is simply fields... this is what I've tried to do. And you're right, I've seen that today by painting in real world with acrilyc, the same landscape... I really need to paint the background BEFORE the foreground, I've got these white unpainted lines between my colors. Thanks for the feedback, it really helps :chug:

[MindCandyMan]

cmortier - I love your studies...I think they are going really really well. I really love the cherry tree study. Wow that really show a vast improvement in your skills. Really good. Oblio is right about the different values but really good job.

coriat - Art is so frustrating isn't it?...the thing is that people always get frustrated...even Jon foster, Jason Manley, Andrew Jones, etc...but eventually what you call frustrating and crap...everyone else calls AWESOME. My first cube was AWFULLLLLLL...focus on where the light source is and go from there. Pick a light source before you start and then draw according to that. The sphere doesn't look so awful! Keep going...post all your tries so we can maybe help and see what the error is.

Oblio - Great job man! Hey quick question...you use a wacom right?...do you set your brushes to 100 percent opacity when doing a 6 value study to get such stark differences in the lines? I have a 6 tone color set when I do some paintings and such but because of the opacity difference it doesn't look as "separated" as yours.

Here is my stuff from last weekend.



I had to go away for the weekend...my wife, graciously, offerred to drive on the way up so I could draw in the car. This was my self portrait done in the car looking at that flip down mirror thing on the visor.

http://www.phantomarts.co.uk/freeimagehosting/Drawing 40 SP.jpg


This is me trying to understand Loomis and get a human head right...I like a couple of the heads but over all I need wayyyyy more practice with this as you can see:

http://www.phantomarts.co.uk/freeimagehosting/practicing heads.jpg

http://www.phantomarts.co.uk/freeimagehosting/practicing heads 2.jpg

http://www.phantomarts.co.uk/freeimagehosting/practicing heads 3.jpg


This was just a gargoyle and a tower that I doodled in the car as well:

http://www.phantomarts.co.uk/freeimagehosting/Gargoyle and Tower.jpg


I felt like experimenting with my self portrait last night and this is what I came out with...

http://conceptart.org/forums/

[Nold]

Wow, this is a wonderful learning thread. I still have a lot to learn. Thanks to everyone contributing to this thread. So lets post a sketch of my fantasy knife. I thought it is a great object to practice proportions ( many small forms together ). To practice the value thing, I'll redo it in 6 values as soon as I can spend some time on it.

http://www.nhoch2.de/griffin_pencil.jpg

Crits or tips ? I think I'm not doing the black areas dark enough. An old problem.

[jester]

These sketches I did yesterday and today, watching Zefirelli's "Romeo and Juliet" film. My technique, or rather my method is to hit the VCR's pause button whenever a situation/scene occurs that looks interesting to draw. This gives me about three minutes until the band stops. I feel I learn a lot about volume, shapes, darks and lights and to observe these as quickly as possible. I can recommend this highly - it is immense fun.

I know that not all of them are good, but hey, this is the schoolyard, innit? :D - if you see mistakes, let me know!

Jester

http://www.jester.de/gallery/sketch/romeo-juliet-01.JPG

http://www.jester.de/gallery/sketch/romeo-juliet-02.JPG

http://www.jester.de/gallery/sketch/romeo-juliet-03.JPG

http://www.jester.de/gallery/sketch/romeo-juliet-04.JPG

http://www.jester.de/gallery/sketch/romeo-juliet-05.JPG

http://www.jester.de/gallery/sketch/romeo-juliet-06.JPG

http://www.jester.de/gallery/sketch/romeo-juliet-07.JPG

[Oblio]

ok - i'm in trouble. Don't know it you know - i've burnet my comp and then my father's comp and the parrot died and.. on and on... anyway.. i need some perspective tutorials!
Anyone?
Thx.

Oblio

@jester - some of them a realy nice. If you are still taking the time to do this - pay more atention to proportions. Please! ;)

@Nold - nice. More contrast. 6 values? Anything will do :)

@MindCandy - you are not lookind enough. Measure and quit those hatching lines. Try to work with "splashes". I use photoshop "pen" (not brush) on my values studies.

@coriat - make that a CUBE and the other one a SPHERE - a real one! Measure! Value without form is... NOT GOOD. Try to make that a real cube.

[prismacolor]

Oblio, et al:
I'm way behind on a project, but wanted to take time to add at least a couple of things -
First, between light and shade it is the "relationship" that must be maintained. If you look at the example below the difference between light and shade is 3 steps. It can be anything you want; but here it is three steps. This means when the color white goes from light to shade there is a three value difference. when black goes from light to shade there is a three value difference. If you follow the numbers 1, 2.3 you can see what I'm trying to show. When the light strikes an object directly, that is number 1, as an object turns away from the light - but is still getting hit by SOME light - you go to 2 (this can go darker still, it doesn't have to be 1 value change as shown, it depends on what you are observing) - but it is still on the "light" side of the value chart. Once you get into shade, where an object is turned away from the light you will be on the "shade/shadow" side of the diagram. I hope you can figure this out. Loomis gets into a lot more detail in his book, but it can take several readings before you truly understand what he's saying.
http://www.digitallaprima.com/images_workshop/VALUE1.GIF

secondly, I wanted to demonstrate 2 things which may help. First, when you are working on values, try starting with a background that is already a tone - here it is 50% gray, you can choose what you want. It can really help you see values more accurately, since what you're doing in a picture is comparing values throughout the picture as you paint. Secondly, try to simplify the areas of color/value. In reality and in photos, colors and values get broken up into lots of little pieces. Your job as an artist is to simplify and combine areas to make something read as a unified shape or form. As artists we get to do that...it's an advantage over photos, but it's hard to see in real life...just takes practice.
http://www.digitallaprima.com/images_workshop/oblio_ceai4_OVP.gif

good luck and keep up the great work!

[IronGoblin]

A lot of nice work in this thread, and a lot of feedback.

Thought I'd point you all to my first work. Seems like i put it in the wrong thread in this forum. Need the feedback to improve though, so let me have it.

Here is the thread in question:

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1264

[MindCandyMan]

Prismacolor - great stuff man. Wow thanks so much for taking the time out to post stuff like that. It helps tremendously!!!!! Your help is a great asset to all of us. P.S. - I got my book in the mail..."Painting in Opaque Watercolors"...I got it as an investment for the future. It was only 12 bucks total with shipping and it's in great condition!!!

Jester - I love these sketches. They have a spontaneous and lively quality to them. Great work...watch your proportions...although if you were watching a movie they would need to be sketched quickly so good job!

Nold - Good job on the dagger. I really like it. Your lines are created very precise and clean. Good job. You are right about the values not differing enough. Can't wait to see more of your stuff!


Here is my stuff from last night:

http://www.phantomarts.co.uk/freeimagehosting/Drawing 41 my hand.jpg


This is out of a notebook that I keep. When I am waiting for the train, or on the train, etc... I like to sketch whatever I see. I do it very quickly but I like to do it for practice of drawing what I see. Here is the second page out of it...all these unsuspecting people...don't know I am drawing them! haha!

http://www.phantomarts.co.uk/freeimagehosting/spiral bound 2.jpg

[coriat]

hey all, checking in again...
-oblio, your honesty is discouraging as always :) but that's as much a circle as you're ever going to see from me ...and what's wrong with the cube, it looks like a cube to me...a really weird lighted cube, but a cube nonetheless.

-mindcandy, progressing nicely, the placement of the features is correct almost all the time. try to watch proportions a bit more, some of the heads have really stretched out jawbones and short noses and almost no forehead... but i think you're ready for the next section of the loomis book, print it out if you haven't already :D or do as i did and skip a few pages and print out the 2-3 pages about the drawing of the features study those and then go back to where you were :)

-jester, looking good

-everyone else, nice work everyone !! :chug:.

Oh yeah, oblio, One of Andrew Loomis books has a really nice perspective drawing chapter, better then anything i've ever seen... let's see... it's in his Succesfull drawing -book. hope this helps...it's about 20-30 pages of super-licious perspective :D especially the last few pages were interesting because he explains rising roads and "angled" perspective there, which i never learned in the few years i had drawing classes at junior-school, only silly 1-point perspective.

and ...what do y'all think off my new Avatar...i'm proud of it, hope i get around finishing the comlete drawing behind it somewhere next week :) (my real finished drawing, how cool of me :D)

[brokencow]

heres a fews scans of my figure works

www.rsad.edu/~rwhiteis

thanks

[MindCandyMan]

coriat - I like the avatar you have. I can't wait to see the finished pic! Thanks for the feedback. Maybe I will move further in his book this weekend.

Here are my studies from yesterday...not the greatest...oh well:


More quick sketches of people on the trains, etc...

http://www.phantomarts.co.uk/freeimagehosting/spiral bound 3.jpg

http://www.phantomarts.co.uk/freeimagehosting/spiral bound 4.jpg


Tried to draw a mug...emphasis on the "tried".

http://www.phantomarts.co.uk/freeimagehosting/Drawing 42 mug.jpg

[cmortier2002]

Here is my week painting and drawing:

First, I tried to do the same landscape I've done with painter, but with acrylic. The clouds are terribly bad, I see a lot of problems in this painting, but can't figure them out :confused:
http://www.ifrance.com/cmortier/drawing/acrylic01.jpg

And I start study a little the clothes... here is the result (I don't post all the bad stuff I got, but this is the last and the best one). My drawing skills start to become better I think. Will practice some more this weekend.

http://www.ifrance.com/cmortier/drawing/drap.jpg

Again, I've take a picture of my drawings... sorry for the shadows and bad picture.

[cmortier2002]

Mindcandy: I see progress in you figure work, you are lucky that you can draw in the train, I lose 1 hour every day driving my car to go to work, I will start doing some this weekend, mine are so terrible that I doesn't want to show any. Loomis books seams to be great, I just printed one of them.

Brokencow: Your figure works are very good, I like also the lion at the main entrance of your portfolio.

[jester]

http://www.jester.de/gallery/sketch/syard-002.JPG

gosh - that was d-i-f-f-i-c-u-l-t !!! Think I have to do such studies more often. Any hints on what I can do better?


@cmortier2002 - apart from the clouds (which really are horrible) your color study looks nice and reminds me much of August Macke (German impressionist who died very young in the 1st WW). Try not to think of clouds as regular round objects. Go outside and take a look at them. The cloth study is pretty nice, I did some myself recently and know that they are a challenge. Good job here imo.

@MindCandyMan - great that you take the courage to draw on the train. Though your sketches are - hmm - fairly plain yet one can see that you learn a lot by doing them. Stick to it! Mine looked the same two years ago! As for the mug: try one with no decor and just spot the values (very valuable tips on that in this thread!).

@coriat - thanks! :D

@prismacolor - wow! thanks! :cool:

@Oblio - yep. Same problem with proportions in this study. :(

Jester

[prismacolor]

MindCandy...just quick response on the goauche book...
glad you found the book. It's not that it's the best book out there, just one of the few that can be found that has solid step-by-step instruction. Keep up the good work!

[MindCandyMan]

Hey everybody...sorry for the broken links...I have to wait till phantomarts is back up again...sorry about that.

I used a tutorial as a guide for the tools in painter on this one. Check my post to see the step by step.

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/elephantdiarrhe/tomatoes final.jpg

[Soupy]

Here's a 5min sketch I did of a friend in a cancelled class today. Sorry it's so huge.

http://www.imagemagician.com/images/soupy/scott2.jpg

[MindCandyMan]

Great job soupy...the proportions are really good especially for just a 5 minute sketch. Great work.

[Soupy]

thx a lot mcm....i was suprised at how well it came out - especially with about 5 people hovering over me watching every line i made. :)

[Oblio]

Uf... sorry for being away. Let's get back to work.
I don't get this value thig - sorry - it's probably my english or my small brain.. or both. I understand that relation is the key and that you can have any number of steps you choose but when a white thing goes int the shadow.. it looks damn black and in my only 3 steps i the darkest shadow for a white object is a pale gray... i should make it gray .. right? Um... and where should i place the gun? :confused: My knee.. right?

Some rule-less value crap: (sort of back light)
http://members.fortunecity.com/afantana/valuestry.jpg

oh and.. a cube.. should be a cube. (Coriat One of the things i've learned is that what you see matters LESS then what's going to be on your paper. YOU are the GOD of your drawing - if you sow a sphere but you wanted to draw a cube.. draw the cube. An "almost cube" would not do.

http://members.fortunecity.com/afantana/cube.jpg
(not there yet but a quick try)

prismacolor - in case you didn't red your pm - THANK YOU! I hope i'm not such a dissapointment :( I'll get there NEXT TIME (i promise) )

Soupy - very clean. nice. more! (odd proportions though :confused:)
jester - i think we all need some perspective knowledge. I'm just begining to realize the BAD need of it.


Cmortier - that study rocks! Wow.

Ok - so.. people - let's rock!

Oblio

[prismacolor]

Oblio - oops, I only just saw the p.m. you're more than welcome... :) keep up the great work, it will hopefully always be at least a little frustrating or you're not improving.

I've too many things I should be doing at the same time right now to get into more depth on the value-steps thing right now. But here goes anyway...it is a difficult thing to get your head around no matter what stage you're at as an artist. I think Loomis does as good a job as anyone when he explains it, but I had to read it half-a-dozen times over a couple of years before it actually made sense to me.

Look at this page first -
http://www.fineart.sk/loomis/page084.jpg
Loomis uses different "step" relationships to illustrate the point that you can choose the relationship you want as an artist...to achieve the kind of drama you want.
Don't get stuck on my diagram where I indicate 1,2,3 for the "lights" and only move one step down --when you're painting from life the "light" side may jump 2 or more values before going into the shadow side...so your shadows of white may indeed be black. I was trying to illustrate "consistency", not an absolute rule.

Then look at this page -
http://www.fineart.sk/loomis/page085.jpg
Although the scan is bad, this is the page where at first look you're not going to see what Loomis is doing...but after awhile you'll figure it out. Look at the tree on the right side of each thumbnail as an example. In each thumbnail the value is different...and you skratch your head wondering why/how does THAT work??? The answer is it doesn't absolutely matter what value you start at as long as you stay consistent within the picture. A "white" color may start as value 1 in direct light, go to value 3 in half-light and drop to value 7 (4 steps) in shadow. A green tree may start as value 4 in direct light, drop to value 6(2 steps) in half-light, then drop to black in shadow (a 4 step drop, since one cannot go darker than black it must be black). Something else in the picture may start out as value 2 in light, go to value 5 in half-light and drop to value 9 in shadow. The same steps apply from light to half-light to shadow no matter what value you start at. This is what keeping the "relationship" consistent means. I didn't understand this for the longest time.

As you practice more you'll see how all of this "step-stuff" gets modified by reflected light in the shadows... but that's for later. First, try and understand what Loomis is trying to communicate with keeping the relationships consistent. I'ts a very good idea to start with cubes and spheres and cones that are painted white. One of my teachers had us draw white eggs on white paper and white onions on white paper under different lighting conditions. It's a good exercise.
:)

[jester]

:hothead:

I hate it! (not exactly a daily study, but at least one still life per week)

http://www.jester.de/gallery/sketch/syard-003.JPG

Where are my eyes (or my "knowledge" of what the world is like) are playing me tricks? I see that the rendering is wrong - but I can't see where.

:ranting:

Jester

[MindCandyMan]

I think these are really good jester. I mean every drawing probably has some problems but I think they are really good. You are getting tremendously better.

With the help of seegmiller and his site I started laying some tones down. I will need to refine this technique but it's a great technique that he displays.


http://www.phantomarts.co.uk/freeimagehosting/hair painting step 1.jpg


http://www.phantomarts.co.uk/freeimagehosting/Painting 54 womans hair.jpg

[ZippZopp]

hey mindcandyman, those tomatoes look great, really well done. where was this tutorial on it, i'd love to have a look at it

thanks!

[MindCandyMan]

Hey ZippZopp,
Thanks...can't take much credit for this one though...I just went through the tutorial and did what it said...it lays it out really well and shows you the technique they use to get that effect. I tried to use the tutorial as loosely as possible so I could try to build my own skills up. I am gonna try and do it again some time soon. Was great practice. Here is the link where this tutorial is and also a bunch of other great ones as well.

http://www.gfxartist.com/features/tutorials

[ZippZopp]

thanks buddy! checking it out now

[miasmak]

first off thanks prismacolor for the input and loomis quotes, I have found them usefull so far.

Here are 2 sketches done recently of a traveling companion.
http://www.jsim.com/cg/analog/k1.JPG
http://www.jsim.com/cg/analog/k2.JPG
I am working on some brown eggs on brown background which I hope to post soon.

[miasmak]

http://www.jsim.com/cg/analog/eggandothers1s.jpg

as promised

[Avetice]

well this isn't all from today, i go to life drawing classes on monday wednsday, friday, and saturday :D. just started the monday and wednsday ones where there is a teacher there to teach, the friday and saturday ones are free ones set up for everyone. ...the m&w ones i get to go to for free because i got that professor in a different class. :D

anyway just thought i would post a few because i need as much help as i can get with this stuff since i just started.

i can barely get a recognizeable figure on paper in 5 minutes :(

2 minute ones:
http://www.avetice.netfirms.com/figure/2a.jpg http://www.avetice.netfirms.com/figure/2b.jpg http://www.avetice.netfirms.com/figure/2c.jpg http://www.avetice.netfirms.com/figure/2d.jpg

5 minute:
http://www.avetice.netfirms.com/figure/5a.jpg

10 minute:
http://www.avetice.netfirms.com/figure/10a.jpg

20 minute:
http://www.avetice.netfirms.com/figure/20a.jpg

25 minute:
http://www.avetice.netfirms.com/figure/25a.jpg

[miasmak]

http://www.o2w.nl/~maia/ag/eggandothers2s.jpg

[Oblio]

i'll post a stupid sketch..
(i wish i could comment on you guys.. but.. i'm not able to type right now. :( Later, ok? thx. )

http://members.fortunecity.com/afantana/20nov_x.jpg

Oblio

[Oblio]

how about this guy?
http://members.fortunecity.com/afantana/moise21-11-2002.jpg

mia - that dithering is from your drawing or came up in photoshop?

avetice - love the 5 min one.


Oblio

[miasmak]

:confused: the dithering is not in the orignal. now I see, the server is just extremely slooow, and I saved i progressive mode, it gets better if you wait a while.

i like the relaxed line work in your statue pic Oblio, no real specific helpful advice I'm sorry. makes my sketch kinda prissy

avetice, i like the sculptural feel of the short poses, only advice I can think of is keep practising.

[jester]

Went to the museum today to draw some Roman sculptures. Any help or hints highly appreciated!

:)

Jester

http://www.jester.de/gallery/sketch/syard-008.JPG

http://www.jester.de/gallery/sketch/syard-005.JPG


http://www.jester.de/gallery/sketch/syard-006.JPG


http://www.jester.de/gallery/sketch/syard-007.JPG


http://www.jester.de/gallery/sketch/syard-004.JPG

[Oblio]

i thnk you should have spent more time on each.
More contrast on the pencil ones. More carefull about proportions.

Hmm.. i should follow those rules too :eek:

Oblio

[jester]

Oblio - you're right on taking more time.

There were almost no chances to sit down (except on the floor, which I don't mind but would have meant drawing most of the sculptures from below) and I was constantly fleeing a large group of people.

I don't mind being watched while drawing (by now, it was bothering me immensely still half a year ago, but I got more confident - due to this forum!) but they were really noisy and distracted me even when in the next room. Hopefully it'll be more quiet next time.

Jester

[MindCandyMan]

I like the spontaneity of these jester...that's awesome you are doing them from life too...that's so important. I agree with oblio's comments. That's cool you were working in pen as well. I have just started working in pen on a lot of my stuff and I am loving it. I know EXACTLY what you mean about the distractions...I tried to draw people in a coffee shop one day and all these girls were sitting at my table talking about how drunk they got last night...etc... It was extremely distracting. I know exactly what you mean.

[jester]

Just my feet. I think the right one (the one on the left) looks a bit too short, the left one's (on the right ;) ) ankle is a bit too broad. Any other critics?

Jester

http://www.jester.de/gallery/sketch/syard-009.JPG

[Oblio]

thx Jes.. you have broght this back.
i've done some sketches but i couldn't find the time to post them. Soon I hope.

About your last... the right one (on the left) has a perspective problem i think. The little finger and all that part should be less vizible.. i hope you get my point.

Oblio

[jester]

Yes, Oblio, I see what you mean, though I could swear that this was exactly what I saw... :) This thread is a great place for studies (though not daily for me either - never mind!). I also get good ideas for motives for my studies.

Keep drawing!

Jester

[Oblio]

am at the point where I can copy what i see but can't do it again without ref. Not even close.
And i've realized that even with a good detail memory i have dificulties on rendering the shape. It's like i'm using another set of brain cells.
so, now i'm more into doing stuff from my head with little reference. I want to give more credit to the mind and less to the eye - and I ENJOY it much more. Sure.. observation is fun and you can not go without.. but i try not to draw what I see - i try to draw what I want to draw. I have always wanted to draw.. not just to copy. And in this process i learn much more.
When you copy you just look at the lines, angles, values, and put something similar on your paper.
When you try to draw from your head.. you start thinking in shapes, and volumes, and light and anatomy and more - and when you don't know how it goes - then you search reference - and go further.
I'll soon post some sketches hre. I can't seem to find the time to do that.
Not evem my las SP - it's done but i had to go to sleep in that verry seccond - and i couldn't update it.
Soon i hope.

Take care,

Oblio

[jester]

Oblio, I couldn't have put it better - that's exactly my problem. I can copy from photos and other drawings really well. I think my life drawings aren't too bad and improving daily (never satisfied but quite content, if you know what I mean). But when drawing from memory I suck. Just like you said, as if completely different brain cells were being used.

It is so annoying! I came back to drawing after a 15 years break (perhaps you read the story of my life somewhere else on this forum) because I wanted to make a comic of my partner's wonderful dwarf-story. This project goes on for more than two years now (and I won't stop!) but it is pretty frustrating when you can't draw what you see with your inner eye.

For me I found it best to try all approaches, that is, copy other people's drawings to learn how they solve a problem, to draw from life to fill my knowledge and understanding of the way objects and shapes work and to draw from memory what I learned by using the other two methods. But the latter I can only do when in an extremely good mood, otherwise it's too frustrating.

I post two drawings here. The first is a copy of someone's Ent I found somewhere on this or another forum (can't remember), the second is my version "from my mind" trying to apply what I learned from the previous piece.

http://www.jester.de/gallery/sketch/syard-010.JPG
copy

http://www.jester.de/gallery/sketch/syard-011.JPG
from mind

Perhaps we should start a thread of rookie memory drawings... oh no, too embarrassing... :o :eek:

Jester

[coriat]

still having problems with hands, so i'm doing those at the moment :)
when i have the time, i will upload the other five sketchbook pages, so you can see all kinds of ugly drawn hands :) and tell me what i need to work on
http://home.hccnet.nl/henk.middendorp/jurjen/tekeningen/handen2.jpg

nice feet jester :)

[MindCandyMan]

JESTERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!! THOSE ARE AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wow...it is so hard to draw from memory and you really did good on the second one. Wow that's great. It is really really hard to draw from memory. We should start a thread of that...it would be embarassing but would help our skills in that area. Start the thread up and I will join. Those look awesome.

Coriat - hands are so hard. Watch the finger placement. The fingers seem real long and bony. Check out loomis' drawing the head and the hands...great help. Keep going bro you are doing awesome!

[coriat]

hehe :) it are MY fingers, are you calling me long and bony!!!?
ow wait, my fingers ARE long and bony :þ
no really, i play piano, and i'm really thin :) i can see what you mean though...and jester, those tree-dudes ARE great!

[MindCandyMan]

heheh...yeah I play guitar and my fingers are really long and thin hahah. I didn't really say what I was thinking too well. I meant that the mass of the hand...like the palm area that extends into the fingers is too thin making the fingers look thin and bony. That's a hard position too with your thumb like that. Keep up the good work my bony fingered friend hehe. :D

[jester]

Thanks, MindCandyMan, you are flattering me! :blush: ;)

I might start such a thread the next days, too busy right now.

This was done tonight at our private draw club, the dog's name is Floh (meaning flea) and she's a beagle.

http://conceptart.org/forums/images/imported/2002/12/37.jpg