Sogbad’s Design Mentoring Thread of DOOM.

[Sogbad]

This thread is for my design mentoring group and is primarily for the following unlucky people who have expressed an interest;

Armando
GriNGoLoCo
jojo1975
qabas12
SugaCrcl

You should all post your work in this thread, where I can take a look and give you my advice and where the other’s in the group can also take a look and learn from each other. You can post your work as you go along or if you have any specific questions, and of course try to hit the main Deadlines, one of the most important workplace skills is being reliable ;).

Here we go with the first concept design project. I’m going to keep it as close to the real process used in the game industry, but with the some of the pooh bits taken out ;).

We are going to do all the projects in the following 3 steps;

Concept, research and idea creation.
Design, idea iteration and concept presentation.
Presentation, illustrating and presenting the final concept.


Project 1 Sci-Fi Weapon.

Step 1, Concept.

Brief.
This weapon if for a science fiction First Person Shooter game, an FPS, it is a player weapon and as such is a very important design piece. A couple of things to keep in mind is the primary view of the weapon will be rear ¾ perspective from the gun holders perspective, and the weapon should have an interesting reload animation if possible.

Setting.
The overall setting, theme and style is similar to the Aliens franchise, specifically the 4th one Alien Resurrection.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_%28film_series%29

Weapon.
Half way through the game the player has to go to a penal colony, this penal colony is set on a harsh desert island surrounded by acid seas, the only structure’s on the island are for the colony administration and off limits to the inmates. As the player explores the level he will come across the Riot Gun used by the guards to control the inmates. The Riot Gun is intentionally designed to look as intimidating as possible, the nastier the better. The Riot Gun has 2 modes of firing, the primary mode shoots a wide short range blast designed to kill and incapacitate many targets, the secondary mode of firing is a non lethal electric blast used to render people unconscious within a 5m arc. The Riot Gun also has a probe that sticks out the front of the gun and is a ‘cattle’ prod for inmate management.

Deliverable.
Time, 7 days to delivery, you should post your work by 17th November, you should indicate which of your concepts you think are the strongest and which one you want to move forward with. You can deliver your concepts in whatever format you desire as long as it illustrates the concepts sufficiently.






What to do and where to begin???.

So how do you begin a task like this? First step is to do some research especially if you haven’t been given any to start with which is an unfortunately common experience. After re-reading the brief and keeping the requirements in mind start gathering references, start with the easy stuff with the most relevance in this case it would be looking for shogun’s, assault guns and riot guns, but also expand the search into other areas because this can bring new ideas and fresh thinking into your designs, for example the brief calls for a very intimidating look you might want to look at other things that have intimidating looks, power tools, medieval torture implements, insects, just keep an open mind.

Below is an example of what I would expect to be delivered, this example took under a day, and should have included many more sketch’s but as it was for a personal project I could afford to come up with fewer ideas…

My brief was to design the standard military rifle for a game set in the future, the game as a unique neo Victorian aesthetic, so I started out gathering my references in 3 category’s, real world rifles, sci-fi rifles and because of the neo Victorian influence I looked at old muskets and rifles.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/GunRefCondesed1.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/GunRefCondesedSciFi.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/GunRefCondesedOld.jpg


With my reference search complete I combine and condense my images into the core reference sheets which I refer back to if I run out of ideas or struggling to detail out design. So having already narrowed my scope before getting to paper I start sketching ideas out, at this stage it’s not important to nail a good design it’s about getting as many ideas down as possible, worry about if there any good later.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/Ex1b.jpg

After sketching the ideas down and with the time up or inspiration depleted it’s time to look at what you came up with, take a look at the designs see if any jump out at you, see if certain elements feel good and might work better with elements from other sketches, with this example I circled all the elements I liked in pink and then started to flesh these out a little more, now I have 3 distinct concepts that I’m happy with and I can present them as my Concepts ready for review.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/Ex2.jpg

And now I'm ready for stage 2.

[jojo1975]

ok research started... I don' like guns but oh well I hope it's oly for virtual shooting ;)
so since it will be a hard week for ma at work I've decided to make everything during this weekend before gettig to work again. I'm sorry for the quality of the scans during next week I hope I will have a scanner. I've used just pencil and paper. I'm quite satisfied with the quality of the detail and I had fun starting overdetailing everything (and I also had to stop myself). I've found pleny of references and I tryed to do a alienish modern stile. There's the drawing and I hope to have a scanner soon
Giorgio

http://thumbnails.imajr.com/4_455923.jpg (http://imajr.com/4_455923)

http://thumbnails.imajr.com/3_455919.jpg (http://imajr.com/3_455919)

http://thumbnails.imajr.com/2_455918.jpg (http://imajr.com/2_455918)

http://thumbnails.imajr.com/1_455917.jpg (http://imajr.com/1_455917)

[SugaCrcl]

Sharpie pen and paper. I did research on smaller sub machine guns and assault rifles. I figure if the gun were used for riot control, then the shooter would need something light and powerful. I also looked at paintball guns, mountain bike frames and super soakers because they both appeal to me in shape and design. I also like the single-shaped futuristic rifles that I guess are coming out soon. Here's what I got so far....im still on it.

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l224/cracine/RiotGun/gunref.jpg

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l224/cracine/RiotGun/gun1.jpg

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l224/cracine/RiotGun/gun2.jpg

Now I'm going to see which component(s) of these guns will fit into the concept requirements and come up with something better.

[Sogbad]

Thanks very much for posting, good to see your both up and running :) and I hope your enjoying it so far.

One thing that I always do that helps me be quicker and produce more usable or functional designs is to make sure I’m keeping everything to a good scale, the easiest way to do this is by working over a template, either a drawing that is to scale or if your pushed for time and haven’t got that far use a photograph of a similar subject. Here’s a gif of the rifle I used to draw over to make sure I was keeping things in scale. You can see on this one how I kept the trigger and other parts that interact with the hand close to the reference as I know that it will all work once it's picked up.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/drawover.gif

Silhouette’s are also very important and can be a nice design tool as they help you concentrate on the overall form and proportion without getting stuck on small surface details, they can also help if you get stuck with line art, just get a big fat implement and work out the silhouette, thankfully they are easier to do than spell ;)

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/silo.jpg

Another easy way to help line work ‘read’ better is to use thick and thin lines as they help to give depth and focus. The thickest line is used for the outline or shadow lines, a medium line is used for any line that, if an imaginary ant walked over it would disappear, and the thin line is used for surface detail which, if said imaginary ant again walked over it would continue to be visible.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/line.jpg

[qabas12]

Well It looks like I'm the last to post...... Anyway, I kinda went a bit simple on these concepts, because a combination of ISP problems and portfolio preparation work, i had the least amount of time... though i doubt I would have gotten any more detailed (I dont think in details:nohope: ) Well enough of my excuses, on to the concepts.


This one is a sort of warm-up to get me acquainted with rifles, that i decided to include because I kinda liked the handle piece.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e252/qabas12/Gun_sketch4.jpg

This weapon was intended for dual-wielding, and melee combat, hence the electric wire around the front. I pretty much decided to make a gun that a guard would whack the crap out of someone a sweeping motion.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e252/qabas12/Gun_sketch3.jpg

After a while i decided to toy around with the idea of battery cores and came up with the next 2

the first a shotgun w/ pumping action
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e252/qabas12/Gun_sketch2.jpg
and the second is more of a rifle, with overcharge action
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e252/qabas12/Gun_sketch1.jpg


I'm happy with these, what say you, Sogbad?:wink:

[jojo1975]

hello Sogbad, thanks for the reply and very informative tricks
I will try to dins a scanner and tweak a bit the concepts still now made

[armando]

The main purpose of this post is just to show that I am working on the assignment. I also have one question: Do you want us to show our references?

I spent yesterday getting my ref. I looked at:
*Guns: from the Alien franchise; riot guns; shotguns; rocket launchers
*tasers and prods
*torcher devices
*bug's pedipalps
*power tools; belt drives; engines
*axes
*wiring; early twentieth century electrical equipment

I also familiarized myself with the parts of guns, and did a few studies which I won't show, to take stock of design elements that I could then modify. I'm still in the brainstorming phase, and wasn't planning on showing anyone these drawings, hence they're terrible.
I'm trying to think of ways to get parts of the gun to move: a twisting prod/drill, an exposed belt drive or engine generator thing. Two of the most intimidating/scary tools I can think of are dental drills and chainsaws, it's mostly because of their moving parts and the sound they make. Exposed wires, needles and barbs, all tend to look dangerous.

[armando]

Well It looks like I'm the last to post......


You realize there are 5 of us?

[Sogbad]

Good evening, glad to see things are progressing :)

quabas12, ah the age old battle of portfolio goodness ;). I won’t give a full critique until after the presentation but so far I think number 2 and 3 are the ones that have the most potential, but don’t forget to check the proportions of the designs, these weapons are going to be held by a human so you need to make sure that the hand, arm and trigger dimensions are going to work. There’s nothing worse than finding out your lovingly crafted design has to be scrapped or butchered because it won’t work.

As for thinking in details as long as you work from big to small it usually takes care of itself, get happy with the overall form, proportions and function then start working out the details.

armando, no you don’t have to show the references, and it’s good to see your thoughts so far, sometimes people forget how useful rationalizing can be, if you just design visually you can end up with unconvincing designs especially with Industrial type concepts.

Also thanks for posting the rough sketches, you can work out a lot of things with drawings that you wouldn’t want people to see, when I’m working on personal projects where I don’t have to show people what I’m doing I have the most appalling thumbnails, but of course you have to know your audience, if I’m showing ideas to others I’ll spend more time on the illustration, and if I’m presenting to management then I’ll probably spend more time making it look polished than designing ;).


Deliverable. Again the deadline for this first concept stage is the 17th, you can of course finish before if you want to. For the deadline you should present your strongest concepts with a brief description of function/form or anything else that you think is important to get across about the design.

One very important thing, we were taught this in school, I found it to be true in the professional environment, and I still sometimes forget, but don’t, DON’T, EVER present concepts that you don’t like or don’t think are good enough, even if you think you need to pad out the numbers of designs to present, because without fail the client/management/audience will pick that ONE! :)

And you’ll cry ;)

[qabas12]

lol that's a good... I hope i dont start crying....... anyway how do you get to the fine detail on the weapon?

[qabas12]

You realize there are 5 of us?

ooooooo thats 3 more than I thought.....lmao I need more sleep:teeth:

[Sogbad]

qabas12 “anyway how do you get to the fine detail on the weapon?”

Well we shall be doing that in the next step the design phase so I’ll go more into it then, there’s 2 main approaches, aesthetically or functionally. Aesthetically just start adding lines and forms, colors and patterns and see what compliments the overall design. Functionally, just look at your real world reference or really start to think of the function of the subject, below is a really quick example of using reference to quickly ‘steal’ functional elements that you use to add relevant detail.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/details.jpg

But we’ll be getting into this more with the next step, the design stage. :)

And just to give you all a better idea of a real world equivalent you would probably churn out anywhere from 80-200 of the type of designs we’ve done so far in a day.

[SugaCrcl]

And just to give you all a better idea of a real world equivalent you would probably churn out anywhere from 80-200 of the type of designs we’ve done so far in a day.--Sogbad

You mean individually it takes that amount of concept sketches to create a gun for a game? I think that makes sense considering you have to count for feedback from your fellow concept artists, the art director, and other folks in charge of the project.

I tried out the silhouette techinque on four guns that I liked the most. I'm keeping it simple for this project. I'm sticking to the smaller sub-machine gun design. I saw a picture of an 1800-era steam locomotive, and came up with another gun design to resemble that. I also added some vents to three of the guns. I figure the bulky guns would need some vents for cooling.


http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l224/cracine/RiotGun/riotgun72.jpg
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l224/cracine/RiotGun/riot1.jpg
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l224/cracine/RiotGun/riot2.jpg
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l224/cracine/RiotGun/riot3.jpg
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l224/cracine/RiotGun/riot4.jpg

[qabas12]

Hey Sugacrcl where's the detail? did you get past the shilloette yet?

[SugaCrcl]

No, not yet, qabas12. The silhouette helped me out in creating those guns. I was concerned about details early on. After reading Sogbad's post about silhouettes, I figured worrying about details before I had a shape of a gun would take up too much time; do the shape first. I reckon I will be on the detailing tonight after work. Detailing is going to be hard for me though, I'll have to get more reference materials.

[qabas12]

yeah, detailing was a problem for my too (and still is), but I stuck with it for a couple hours and used some of sogbad' reference sheet:^^: . also what probably helped me was the use of themes, like battery-operated, pump-action required, or charge- action availible, alien-based, human-based... it might prove useful when we get to the animating stage.:tihi:

[Sogbad]

SugaCrcl "You mean individually it takes that amount of concept sketches to create a gun for a game?"

For a First Person Shooter game the gun is going to be on screen nearly all the time and is pretty much all that the player sees of his character. This makes the gun design as important as a main character design in a Third Person Game. As for the 80-200 quick concept sketch’s that’s just the start, the more ideas you have the more likely it is to ‘find’ a good design. Of course I only did 12 on my personal project :S so perhaps I should shut up about that ;)


As for details, when you are doing the initial concept designs you only need enough details to give a loose flavor as there’s no point spending time on an idea that may well end up on the cutting room floor. The next stage is where the hard work comes in, once the basic concept has been chosen you have to refine the design, add details, make sure the design works, and of course make sure it still looks cool. Of course one person’s cool is another persons poop ;)

[SugaCrcl]

As for the 80-200 quick concept sketch’s that’s just the start, the more ideas you have the more likely it is to ‘find’ a good design.--Sogbad

If I were doing concept art full-time, I think I would hit the 200 mark for gun designs. I did some detailing on two guns designs I liked the most. The detailing part was difficult, but I had enough reference to get me by. I broke down the detailing to three parts: the handle, the reloading mechanism, and the gun nozzle. After that, detailing got a little easier. I have to keep in mind how the game character will reload these things. Would that part involve storyboarding?

The vents on the top of the below. I imagined it to be a vacuum, where it would suck up particles for energy. I'm still working on that concept.

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l224/cracine/RiotGun/gun001.jpg
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l224/cracine/RiotGun/gun002.jpg

Here is my second gun concept. I thought of using duracell-like batteries for ammo.
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l224/cracine/RiotGun/gun004.jpg

[SugaCrcl]

Ok here are the guns that I have designed and liked the most. The guns are all lightweight and easy to move around with in extreme situations. Personally, I would not want to carry a gun that looks heavy. I tried to keep it simple and appealing. Can't wait to hear some CC.

[Sogbad]

17th November DELIVERY DAY

Today’s the first deliverable, please post up your final concepts for Step 1, the Concept phase. Once these are posted I’ll take a look and give you feedback on Sunday and post the next step, Step 2 Design, with all the guidelines and information needed to complete it by the 25th November.

To complete Step 1 you should post your final concepts, just your strongest, in a fresh post and cleaned up as much as possible with a small written description explaining the design, how it functions, why it looks that way, and thing that you need to help sell the concept.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/concpetSTEP1Presentationcopy.jpg

I look forward to seeing your final posts and getting the feedback to you, then on to Step 2 :)

SugaCrcl "I have to keep in mind how the game character will reload these things. Would that part involve storyboarding?"

Explaining how the weapon is reloaded could be done with storyboards or with a diagram.

[SugaCrcl]

Here are my guns with descriptions of their components.

[armando]

I thought the folding handle would provide an interesting reload animation.
I tried to keep the looks similar to designs from the Alien franchise, and so used two of the guns as templates for these, as you demonstrated in the earlier post.

Both designs have a belt drive which is there primarily for it's movement, I also think the prod would be vibrating while it's on, this would lead to a gritty intimidating sound while it was active.

241783


This design is derived a little more from a chainsaw. I thought the wires around the prod and the little needles contributed to it's uglyness.

[GriNGo]

Heya, sorry for not posting before... kinda had a hard job week. Here's my stuff.. I'm posting my initial concepts and then my finals. An explanation on my initial designs... i kinda based the designs on abstracts shapes in photoshop, and worked from there. Since I first read the brief I decided that I would try to deviate myself from the traditional weapon designs people are used to seeing. I wanted them to feel alien, abstract, but without loosing the functionality. Form follows function is a design motto that has been taught to me over the years of studying graphic design. I'm also an avid gamer, and kinda used to seeing lots of weapons, so from my gaming experience I got and added the details I felt necessary to the blobs to make them feel more as the weapon brief described. I also tried to relate my designs to organic creatures, as you can note by some of the concepts names. In the end I stook with the 3 finals there attached.

[qabas12]

aaaaaaawesome, dude. yo gringoloco you've officially inspired me. At first I didn't think we could use alien concepts, but noww....

But, back on topic, I need help cleaning up my sketch lines in PS CS3. Anyone have any advice?

[jojo1975]

gringo loco is a real pro.. very inspiring.. can you please share some tips from you techniques which brush did you use it's photoshop or traditional techniques.. ?
BTW there's my update
http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/3577/1copysc8.th.jpg (http://img45.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1copysc8.jpg)

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/315/2copypf3.th.jpg (http://img160.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2copypf3.jpg)

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/5809/3copygm1.th.jpg (http://img160.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3copygm1.jpg)

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/9924/4copysf5.th.jpg (http://img160.imageshack.us/my.php?image=4copysf5.jpg)

One is a eal rifle and the other one are more heavy gun (similar to the one that used Ripley in Alien)

[SugaCrcl]

gringoloco - i like the rhino and squid designs. it would be fun to stab villians with the prod device you have designed. way to go at pushing the envelope here. i cant see how i could hold the fusion slither though.

qabas - cleanup? i just trace over my rough on paper using a good pen to get a fine line. then i scan mine in photoshop. experiment is what im always told by folks.

[armando]

Gringo: Gotta be honest: I don't get them, they look more like vehicles to me.

[qabas12]

gringoloco - i like the rhino and squid designs. it would be fun to stab villians with the prod device you have designed. way to go at pushing the envelope here. i cant see how i could hold the fusion slither though.

qabas - cleanup? i just trace over my rough on paper using a good pen to get a fine line. then i scan mine in photoshop. experiment is what im always told by folks.
thanks dude I was getting desperate...:teeth:

O and JoJo, I dont see how you'd use the "spear" point on your first gun concept, Its a bit short.

[Sogbad]

Hello everyone, good to see the postings, looks like some great work, I'm rushing to get something finished, but I will be posting tonight :)

[GriNGo]

qabas12 - thanks man!
jojo1975 - it's all digital sketching, using Photoshop. I just made a custom brush and started doodling and stuff, trying to come up with interesting shapes.
SugaCrcl - thanks! about the weapons, well the fusion slither and the squid were designed to be a part of your arm, sort of like a robotic attachment to your body. Think of them more as a hand than a standard weapon. The Rhino is supposed to be a hightech/alien/futuristic shotgun of some sorts.
armando now that I see them, maybe you are right! but don't most sci-fi hitech futuristic weapons look like space ships of some sorts? But I think you have a point. Maybe I need to make the standard cliche weapon features/parts more noticeable and/or recognizable
Sogbad Can't wait to see what you have to say about all of our designs.

[armando]

Maybe I need to make the standard cliche weapon features/parts more noticeable and/or recognizable
designs.

I wouldn't call them 'standards' or 'cliche', 'requirements' would be the better word I think. For example if we were to design a humanoid creature it would be a requirement for it to walk on two legs, and have arms, but the specific look of those arms and legs could be anything.
Nevertheless I think you have some creative designs, hooking the arm into the gun is an unusual idea, also thought the techno-squid prods were pretty unique.

[Sogbad]

Good evening all, thank you all very much for contributing to the thread, its great to see the work and also good to see you talking to each other, it’s always good to see how others approach the same problem. So without further ado lets see what we have…

SugaCrcl

You certainly put a lot of effort on the week SugaCrcl, I hope you had fun. Of your 3 selected concepts I think the top one is the one to take forward, it has a nice solidity about it, it looks reliable and it’s compact which is good for close quarters combat. It looks like it could take a beating, or give one, and keep on going.

The second one although functional gets a little untidy at the back and doesn’t have the ‘presence’ of the first concept, although it could have really nice lightweight but strong construction that could detail out very nicely. The exposed battery could have a nice animation and maybe an animated light effect.

The third design is similar to the first and has many of the good themes that it had, but seems a little less refined in design terms, the top exhaust and grip over balance the design and make it less ‘believable’ than the first design.

Although I must admit I did like the almost ‘cubist’ design of one of your earlier concepts, (your second gun concept, the kind of axe like profile) it definitely had a bold outline and was certainly something different.

So if you decide to take the first one forward, things to look at would be refining the overall shape, maybe pushing the silhouette a little more, you don’t want to get away from the solidity that it has though. Other design elements to play with are as always detailing that helps to sell the concept and make it believable and the all important animation sequence, think about how to get some nice movement for the reloading.

The other major area that will need attention is the details that are going to show in the rear ¾ view that is the dominant view of the gun, this view is what is going to be seen of the design for 90% of the time so it has to be its best angle.


armando

I like your thought process, the scary look of drills, chainsaws and exposed moving machinery are definitely intimidating, your not going to try to grab something with teeth whirring around.

Your first concept certainly has a mean and uncomfortable looking from to it, the teeth on the main concussive blaster look suitable vicious but the taser probe looks a little too fragile to be mean. The stock and handle seem to overbalance the design as a whole but the horizontal offset compared to the barrel does give it an interesting profile.

The second design has a more imposing prod which could be pushed even further, although the angle makes it appear like a flamethrower pilot light. The more compact design I think works better than the first concept, makes it feel more like a riot weapon and the handle over the top helps create and interesting silhouette and creates a handling position similar in some ways to the fictitious mini-gun’s from the movies with the stabilizing hand over the top of the weapon.

If it’s hard to come up with convincing details and design elements you can always borrow them from real world equivalents, as long as you use them as guides and not just rip them off. You have the right thought process you just need to have more convincing elements to add on top of your concepts.

So I would move on with the second concept, try to keep the nice ‘spiky nastiness’ of the prod while trying to add some strength to it, you could try to propagate the whole don’t touch aesthetic to the entire front of the weapon, make it into a feature maybe? You should also expand on the magnetic field generator as it could add a nice visual feature to the design and add some more detail and refinement to the handle and stock.


GriNGoLoCO

Evening GinNGoLoCO, well good morning, writing’s taking longer than I thought! No problem about posting, it’s up to you and you made the deadline which is of course all that matters ;).

Nice concept sheets, I normally work in line but find that sometimes working in more abstract or shape based sketches gives me results I wouldn’t normally come up with. You have a nice loose style that also helps sell concepts.

I like the Rhino the best of your 3 concepts, it has a nice continuity to its form that the other 2 seem to lack, it looks like it could work and was a very nice meaty feel to it, it manages to keep the organic forms you where experimenting with while still ‘reading’ well to the eye as a weapon. Your other 2 designs have very complicated and detailed shapes which are very unconventional, this can be a great thing but designs generally have to have enough cues that establish it’s purpose before getting wild, once the person ‘knows’ it’s a gun then go to town but if you don’t establish it first then its always hard to create a compelling design. But then I am an old stick in the mud ;)

I like the little bio’s you came up with as well, any kind of background story or information can be a valuable design tool as they often spark ideas or influence details when you play with form.

I would move forward with the Rhino, specifically I would try to keep your overall forms and focus on bringing in details that help the eye to understand the shape better, I might exaggerate the prodding device a little more just to give it a hard edge to it’s already imposing profile.


jojo1975

I like your 3rd concept the best, the contrast between the big fat front and the relatively slim rear gives it a very interesting from, I’m not sure if the stock and handle/trigger positions are ergonomically accurate but that can be figured out in the design step.

As for your other concepts the first one is a little to conventional, seems very M16’ish, your second concept is more interesting, it has a nice profile, the dual triggers are a nice details as well, although the metal back is much too close to the handle to be used as a stock? Your forth concept doesn’t really have anything that makes it jump out, but I like the idea of engravings, surface details like that can add a great deal of character to a design.

If you decide to take the 3rd concept further I would make sure the ergonomic proportions are correct, I would also try to beef up your taser and spear, make them look much more aggressive, and of course refine the shapes and add the little details that help sell the design as a real weapon.


qabas12

Are you going to have a final post or should I just review the ones you’ve posted already?



Step 2, Design.

Brief.
Now that we have selected the concept that we like and decided on the direction we are going in we can start step 2, Design. In the design step we take the raw concept and explore the idea fully, we look at finalizing the proportions and form, make sure it fulfils all of the functional requirements and flesh out all of the little details that create a finalized design.

Deliverable.
Time, 7 days to delivery, you should post your work by 25th November, as for what you need to deliver you need to have fleshed out and finalized your design ready for the next step, Presentation. This means that you should have enough drawings or sketches that adequately describe the final design that we will make a presentation rendering of in the next step.

What to do and where to begin???.

Well it’s design time, and design is the hardest part of the process, it’s a little easier in entertainment design because we can cheat quite a bit, the design only has a limited amount of restrictions where as in product design there’s a huge amount of restrictions and challenges that have to be solved before the design is completed.

So using my previous rifle project as a guide I selected the elements that where working with the brief and combined them into the final concept and started on the design work.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/d1.jpg

Now with the direction set I played with some of the elements, I don’t have all of my work saved :(, but here are some of the surviving doodles that I used while working on the design. I played with various details, here seeing what different receiver tops worked better, worked out some barrel details, I wanted a nice thick barrel to incorporate the coil propulsion and which harkens back to the old style thick musket barrels, I also toyed with color schemes and patterns….

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/d2.jpg

Here I was working on more details, seeing how much ammunition could fit in, the magazine design and proportions, how a power pack might fit in and how it would be changed, could I fit in a bayonet? Design is where all these details get explored and finalized.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/d3.jpg

One thing that I’ve repeatedly mentioned is the fact that this weapon will primarily be seen from the rear ¾ view, just so your all on the same page this is how it looks…

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/Untitled-3.jpg

Copyright Epic Games, I’m sure they won’t mind ;)

So I would spend sometime working on your designs from this angle, as it’s the most important aspect of the final design, and when we get to Step 3, Presentation, we will be rendering our design in this view.

Thank you all for participating, it’s been fun seeing how you approach the problems and what you post. If there’s anything you want me to change about the way we are doing things please don’t hesitate to yell :S . I hope your all having some fun.

Martin

[jojo1975]

Hello sogbad, thanks a lot for the feedback I will try to do everything before friday since I will have to live for a congress in real life next 4 days.. also my copic and transparent has arrived so I can play more with real things.. are we allowed also to use 3d things or is a bit early to play with them ?
Before starting detailing I've made a very quick 3d visualisation to help in detailing
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7458/3dcomparisonut7.th.jpg (http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3dcomparisonut7.jpg)
and also checked the proporion (which seems correct)
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/2470/3comparisoncopyhx4.th.jpg (http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3comparisoncopyhx4.jpg)
do you think the angle is correct ? If so I will print and then start detailing by hand with my copic ;)
Thanks
Giorgio

[Sogbad]

jojo1975 You could adjust the angle a little, it should be 'aiming' for the centre of the screen and viewed as though you were holding it, so I would tweak it a little, make it point to the centre of the 'screen'. As for whether it's too early to get into to 3D, well it's a grey area, 3D is only a tool and if it helps you get where you need to get quickly then its good, but relying on it because you don't have a good grasp of perspective isn't good.:)

[qabas12]

Sorry for the lateness but I didnt know how you guys (especially you Sogbad, I guess it comes with experience) cleaned up your lines... but I should be posting shortly

[qabas12]

Ok guys.. you can start with this one. Its nameless for now because I didnt put any time into coming up with a name, Its probably going to be some alpha-numeric name.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e252/qabas12/Gun_sketch1Final.jpg

1 down four more to go.

O and whats an easy way to draw a simple straight line PS CS3. ( I'm asking cuz I don't know)

[SugaCrcl]

O and whats an easy way to draw a simple straight line PS CS3. ( I'm asking cuz I don't know)

Hold the Shift Key. Or use the line tool if you don't want to use a brush or pencil.

[qabas12]

awesome thanks dude that well make my work a lot easier

[qabas12]

o here's the second one

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e252/qabas12/GunsketchFinalcopy.jpg

[jojo1975]

Next week will be very busy for me :( tomorrow have to fly to a congress and I hope to succeed in connection so I've tried last night to do the 3/4 view adding also detail as much as possible (more would have require using old good style and rescanning and I cannot manage to do it) I'm quite satisfied with the results . I've not put too much text since I'm not expert of "gun" words sorry there's the result.. hope to have a connection soon !!
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/8311/dok1172224copyzw2.th.jpg (http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dok1172224copyzw2.jpg)

[armando]

I encountered two problems while trying to finish the design. The first was that I couldn't have the handle over the top because the arm would then cover the gun in first-person view. Another issue I had was with the original design of the prod. As I tried to beef it up it began to resemble a hairbrush, so I went with a more traditional bayonet shape. I also moved the prod over to the left so that it would be visible in fpv.
I'm still having trouble coming up with details, I plan to concentrate on that aspect of design as the assignments continue.


246275


Working out the barrel design of the gun. Trying to add interest with wires on the prod, and carving into the barrel thing.
246282


Finally, working on the proportions of the gun. Figuring out the reload. Three little green lights represent ammo/battery life. Buttons to release dead battery indicated in red.

I'm not too happy with how my design came out. I couldn't figure out how to get it to look gritty enough, while still having clear parts that I would be able to render in phase 3, but I suppose it'll come with experience.

[SugaCrcl]

I'm not too happy with how my design came out. I couldn't figure out how to get it to look gritty enough.....

Make a custom brush and add texture in the brush options. You can find a rust or gritty texture somewhere on the net, im sure, so use that.

Here's something that might be helpful...

Dani's Tutorial of Texture (http://danidraws.com/2006/12/05/texture-how-to-make-better-art-with-jelly-beans/)

[SugaCrcl]

Hey yall, I hope everyone had a good thanksgiving. I've been drawing all weekend and I came up with this gun. I tried to mix all the good qualities of all the guns I drew. I went for the Winchester rifle look because like the handle crank on the handle and decided to play with that idea. Hopefully everything makes sense in accord with form and function.

[armando]

Thanks for the link, it'll come in handy for phase 3.

In addition to the texture, I was also referring to the forms of the gun. I was thinking "add spikes, wires, convoluted shapes", but actually drawing that stuff and still having it make sense is too difficult for me at the moment. I had trouble coming up with and justifying various markings and details, which I think you pulled off rather well with the capacitor, generator, exhaust etc. The added difficulty being to get the design to work in 3D.

[Sogbad]

armando If you need to add texture quickly and your using Photoshop the easiest way is by using a texture on a layer, usually an Overlay or Multiply layer, here's a very quick cube which I added rust to by adding an Overlay layer with a rust texture on it....


http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/rust-1.jpg


And here is a great site for free textures that you can use....

http://www.cgtextures.com/

As this was a short week, turkey and all if your in the US, I can add a little more time before we go onto the presentation. Just post when you've finished this stage with a note that your done and I'll give you a critique, I'll also post the third and final step.

[Sogbad]

qabas12 Should I wait for your other 2 to be cleaned up or are you going to stick with these 2? No problem either way just don’t want to leave you hanging ;)

Armando, Don’t be so hard on yourself, in your sketches you’ve begun to add some nice details with the barrel design. You should defiantly put some more details on the top as it will be seen a lot from the first person view.

SugaCrcl, Nice work thinking details through, when you really start to think about the design of anything the details start to add themselves, the combination of your previous designs has definitely worked, it’s a much stronger concept than before. Have you forgotten about the ‘cattle prod’ requirement? ;)

In Product Design, which has slightly different emphasis than Entertainment Design, you normally try to make lines and forms relate to each other, if you look at the lines on your sketch, I kind of picked them out in pink, they are a complex mixture of lines and curves but none of them really tie in with each other all that well, if you look at the yellow lines below I’ve tried to make them relate better to each other, they try to follow the main curve where possible or use the same centre point for arcs, that’s not to say you shouldn’t have discordant lines, just have fewer. In car design they try to use 3-5 lines that define the vehicle. Of course ‘good’ design (as the design industry defines it), is usually driven by the less is more mantra, where as many other’s consider it a less is a bore. BUT that is more of a product design consideration than an entertainment design relevance so feel free to ignore it ;). Have I driveled on enough yet, I think so…

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/whatamitalkingabout.jpg


jojo1975, We can be a little flexible about the dates, we all have lives, well I don’t ;( but hope you all do ;). Is your handle thin enough to be held in a human hand?

[SugaCrcl]

Sogbad, you lost me on the product and entertainment design. Are you saying that I am using too many lines, and I should simplify the concept design more? I did forget the cattle prod requirement *D'oh!* I'll work on that and post again.

[Sogbad]

Sorry about that Sugacrlc, my sadly dysfunctional dual personality strikes again, I studied and work for a period in Product Design before joining the game Industry too long ago, and sometimes this conflict leans to heavily to one side. In Product Design your usually trying to get the most aesthetically appealing form within the constraints of the brief and manufacturing restrictions, where as Entertainment Design your designing either to look as cool as possible, support game-play or to further story elements. So sometimes when I design things or give feedback I slide back more into a Product Design thought process as opposed to Entertainment Design.

So anyway, no your not using to many lines, one of the problems with many mechanical concept design is that there isn’t enough detail, it’s just that a lot of your lines are going in different and non-cohesive directions. Sometimes this is exactly what’s wanted it could be an object that’s thrown together from different parts, it could be an alien culture completely different from ours, but if it’s a human designed product it should reflect the design and manufacturing culture that it comes from.

I hope that cleared it up a little? Maybe not, I’ll think about it a little more and see if I can come up with a clearer response.

[qabas12]

Hey everyone.... hope yall had a happy turkey day.... here are the last of my concepts. I'm obviously the weakest link in terms of PS expetise but I can get by.

This one was inspired by one of gringoloco's concepts. A bit like a grenade launcher, it lobs a supercharged ball up to 100 ft. Exactly 10 sec after launch the orb begins to release its charge, which can incapicitate any life form with in a 10 ft radius.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e252/qabas12/GunsketchFinal4sml.jpg
P.S. Direct contact with a charged orb results in an instant firey death.

this one is a little bulky (I guess) The basic concept is the same as the others. Its a rifle...... that's it i guess...
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e252/qabas12/GunsketchFinal3.jpg

[SugaCrcl]

Hey qabas, I think that second gun concept would look even better if you were stretch the gun out some. the wires on the front is a good idea too. I reckon the user can easily pin or slap the victim with it. Also, is that a floating orb? Or an energy orb created by the gun?

I don't know what to make of your first gun is it upside-down? Or it is held on the arm like a nightstick? The blade and the nozzle are at opposite ends of the gun, right? It looks like you would have to be careful with holding either the blade or nozzle end, lest you get hurt.

[qabas12]

Hey qabas, I think that second gun concept would look even better if you were stretch the gun out some. the wires on the front is a good idea too. I reckon the user can easily pin or slap the victim with it. Also, is that a floating orb? Or an energy orb created by the gun?
When I initially thought of the gun, I envisioned a rotating orb that somehow shocked nearby targets..... I dont know. It needs to be solidified.


I don't know what to make of your first gun is it upside-down? Or it is held on the arm like a nightstick? The blade and the nozzle are at opposite ends of the gun, right? It looks like you would have to be careful with holding either the blade or nozzle end, lest you get hurt.

Correct... have you played Halo 3? Its held like the brute shot. (yeah I used to play that game entirely too much). Hence the trigger on the top of the weapon... and I wasn't too sure about blade on the back... is it a crime to kill a unruly prisoner????

[SugaCrcl]

Oh ok, I gotcha, qabas. I never played Halo before, so I had to look up brute shot to see what you were talking about.

[SugaCrcl]

Hey everyone,

So I spend the first part of this week adding my cattle prod accessory to my concept gun and working on some color schemes. I hope everything is readable. I also played around in rendering to simplify the design. I thought about texture mapping to myself in check. I do like the bottom one a lot compared to the rust look in the above image.

On the cattle prod accessory on the front, there is also a tiny generator for that mechanism. There is also a button above that smaller generator so the user can activate the electric barbs.

I have to work on the back part, because I have to show where the transformer and capacitor are. I think I went overkill on the highlights :S But here is my work-in-progress so far. I will get the 3/4 view done this week.

I'm enjoying this, fellas, fo' sho :yayca:

[armando]

The gun looks rugged and tough, but the prod is a bit hard to read, it could be a laser sight. Also I question the effectiveness of the taser in a prison riot situation, it needs to be able to quickly move from one target to another, or deal with multiple targets at once, as it is it seems the user would be vulnerable during the retract.

[GriNGo]

Sorry for not posting, freelance obligations just kept me from doing anything! I'll catch up by Sunday on this.

[jojo1975]

probably I've come back to real life (even if I 've also to do a tut on modelling human) The gun I showed can be handled (it'has same proportion of ripley gun so it should be ok) Since I've not a lot of tim should I concentrate on this one (3d view) or it's necessary also a 2d ? and what about this model Sogbad ?
Thanks and I wish I could only drwa instead of taking airplanes :)
jojo

[SugaCrcl]

Jojo, did you mean to post your images? I don't see the pictures of your guns you are referring to.

Armando, I appreciate the critique. Yes, the taser function does look smaller and weaker compared to the bigger gun it's attached to. I'll work on that.

[Sogbad]

Hello all, I'm not dead, just been a very busy week, I'll have some more feedback tomorrow, maybe tonight, and see where everyone's at before posting the brief for the final step, Presentation.

[qabas12]

Hello all, I'm not dead, just been a very busy week, I'll have some more feedback tomorrow, maybe tonight, and see where everyone's at before posting the brief for the final step, Presentation.

whatcha been doooin duuude...

[Sogbad]

qabas12, “whatcha been doooin duuude...” Well I resigned from my Art Director position some months ago and I’m in the process of trying to get some projects and start-up’s going, so sometimes I have not much going on and other times I’m snowed under.

jojo1975, “Since I've not a lot of tim should I concentrate on this one (3d view)” yes if your pushed for time work on the 3d view as that is going to be the angle for the final presentation. The model is good for the basic perspective as the angle is about right for the first person view. I would still be worried about he handle and arm positions though, it looks like the arm would be obstructed by the ‘plate’ area in front of the magazine?

qabas12, Glad to see you’ve posted your work :). I quickly numbered them for tracking.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/numbers.jpg

I think your strongest concepts are 1 and 4. Number 3 is a little too alien or primitive looking to fulfill the brief, although it is menacing ;). Number 2 put’s too much emphasis on the batteries and central circular section, they dominate the entire design of the gun. Number 4 is the most ‘traditional’ design, it looks rugged and relatively compact, my favorite is number 1, mainly because the vertical proportions of the gun are very different from the norm and could work well as the weapon could be kept very close to the guard, keeping inmates from grabbing the barrel and it look’s very mean with it’s bulk.

I would take number 1 on to the design stage, now your designing the details you need to firm up the proportions and ergonomics, making sure that the dimensions and hand placements will work correctly, while adding extra details to make the design more believable such as split lines and screw/fasteners. Don’t forget about the reloading animation sequence when your thinking through the details.



Step 3, Presentation.

Brief.
Now that we have selected the completed design we need to finish up with a nice presentation. As the time people have varies we can split this up a little, if you have the time the presentation should resemble the example posted earlier from Epic, it should have a color rendering of the weapon from the first person perspective, it should have an explanatory illustration, or illustrations, showing how the weapon is reloaded and there should be a side view calling out the various components and there function.

Deliverable.
Time, 14 days to delivery, you should post your work by 16th December, it’s a bit longer than normal as I think some of you are still in the design process. You can deliver your presentation in whatever medium you want as long as it illustrates your design in it’s best light and answers the brief.

Here’s the presentation rendering I did for the rifle I was using as an example, as I mentioned before this was not for a FPS so the side ¾ view was appropriate. I used a 3d paint over approach for the rendering, feel free to use whatever method you prefer.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/presentation.jpg

[qabas12]

[QUOTE=Sogbad;1552535]qabas12, “whatcha been doooin duuude...” Well I resigned from my Art Director position some months ago and I’m in the process of trying to get some projects and start-up’s going, so sometimes I have not much going on and other times I’m snowed under.[QUOTE/]

I know what ya mean it does on at my job/internship all the time, luckily its pretty slow right now, so I can get all the help I need:teeth: But, will you tell me why you resigned from an art directer position?

But thanks Sogbad for the eval, I can finally move on. But I am surprised you took to my 3rd concept more than the others, being that I decided to add that one last and it took the least time to make. But I'm not to good with industrial details, but i'll try....

O and how did you paint your concept in 3D, what program?

P.S. If its Deep Paint or Modo you got to teach me the basics.

[Sogbad]

qabas12 "O and how did you paint your concept in 3D, what program?"

I use Maya and Photoshop. Here's the step's I went through. 3D is a great tool and can speed something’s up if you have a pipeline that goes beyond 'just' rendering a nice image. For instance if your going to have a 3D asset made, or your design is actually going to be manufactured.

And as always you have to learn the basics about perspective, rendering in colour before you launch into a successful career, a 3D program is just another tool, it won't make you a better artist.

Here’s a quick overview...

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/render.gif

Step 1 is creating my basic model, I don't have to model all the details or texture it as I'm going to be painting over the render anyway. Once I have the model I can spin it around and find the best angle to render. Then off to Photoshop land.

Step 2 has me painting over the render to add the different materials, matt, brass, rubber and changing the colours where needed. I also add an Ambient Occlusion overlay.

Step 3 I add some overall texture to the image adding some light dirt and wear and tear. I add a few details and change a few of the colours.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/rendersteps1.jpg

Step 4 consists of adding all the details that make the design more complete and believable, add text, logos, screws, patterns...

Step 5 I add a little bounce light, add some highlights (too many but I like them ;) ) add some glows over the lit elements and bobs your uncle a finished render!!

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/rendersteps2.jpg

[qabas12]

wow man I have got to learn photoshop soon..... I get everything your sayin' but I just don't know how to do it (and did have time to stumble around tryin' to find out)

[jojo1975]

I'm useing max and also adding some detail in zbrush. I'm preparing movies of that if anyone is interested in wathing (I got screecapture of what i do) . I will add final touch in phothosop I think ;)

[qabas12]

hey I'm interested Jojo. A little demonstration would only help my process.

[SugaCrcl]

Hey fellas!

Well, I reckon I'll stick to 2D or else I'll take forever with 3D. I'm so rusty with it, I'm chipping away :(

Anywho, I think I finished my gun. I'm calling it the "Eureka Rifle". I took some advice from the class and changed the design of my taser/cattle prod accessory. My last taser design was too weak compared to the gun it was attached to.

I also tackled some drawing with perspective in Photoshop. I drew horizon lines and light guidelines to help me out. Even with the free transform, it was tough for me. Hopefully, I knocked it all out alright. CCs please.

[jojo1975]

I've almost finished but I would like to tweak a bit the result and also to add comments to the video I've made for digital workflow (from sketch to 3ds, zbrush and then photoshop) how much time we have ? when is the deadline ?
thanks and again as always thanks to sogbad for giving the chance to learn ;)
Giorgio

[SugaCrcl]

how is everyone's gun design coming along? I'm interested to see what everyone has done so far.

[Sogbad]

Congratulations SugaCrcl! we have our first final :) I'll post some feedback on it tomorrow at the latest, I hope you others are still working on yours or at least having some fun, I know how hard it is finding the time to do things, so take what time you need.

I'm actually going home to England on Thursday for about a month, and my internet connection might not be all that it could be, but if your still Interested I can post the next project up before I go, and I should be able to give feedback from good old Blighty (England) :)

Thank you all for contributing, and hopefully we can do another.

[jojo1975]

I will try to post everything this night :) with also a small movie about how to export in max and detail in zbrush

[qabas12]

I'll be done by friday, the latest cant wait to see everyone else's work :D....

[jojo1975]

Ok I know that the description is not the strong part but finally I have to say that as a concept i like it (considering that I had to deal with real life more than expected) there's the final

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9404/shotgungu1.th.jpg (http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shotgungu1.jpg)

and there you can find a movie (XVID 4.0 format) of the workflow. I will be happy to hear comment and yes now we want another project (no more weapon
pls ;)


http://www.giorgioluciano.net/downloads/uploads/shotgun.avi

[armando]

Good work getting your stuff finished early dudes. I have to admit I lost momentum after the delay after the last assignment, I'll have it finished by the 16th though.

[Sogbad]

As always left things to the last minute, I'm rushing to get to the Airport, so here is the next project. I'll get some feedback on the finished guns when I get to England so please bear with me :).


Once again we are going to do the projects in the following 3 steps;

Concept, research and idea creation.
Design, idea iteration and concept presentation.
Presentation, illustrating and presenting the final concept.

Project 2 Fantasy Vehicle.

Step 1, Concept.

Brief.
Orc Chieftain’s Chariot, this chariot is going to be used for a commanding character in an RTS, Real Time Strategy game, and as such needs to have a very dramatic silhouette as it will appear very small on the screen, big shapes and interesting outlines are the order of the day.

Setting.
The theme is basically the traditional Fantasy genre, Lord of the Rings, Warhammer.

Chariot.
The Orc Chieftain’s Chariot needs to convey his power, ruthlessness and general all around awesomeness. It should be clear to anything that see’s it, friend or foe that he is an Orc to be reckoned with. The Chariot should have a generally rough construction, orc’s aren’t noted for there coach building prowess, but it should be decorated outlandishly with totems, trophy’s and of course it should look suitably dangerous with various offensive features. The Chariot is a 1 man vehicle pulled by 2 draft creature.

Deliverable.
You should post your work by 29h December, you should indicate which of your concepts you think are the strongest and which one you want to move forward with. You can deliver your concepts in whatever format you desire as long as it illustrates the concepts sufficiently. Again this stage is just about generating ideas, the more the merrier.

[SugaCrcl]

An Orc chariot? Should be fun :)

[armando]

This was a tough assignment, this is the furthest I've ever taken a design. Learned several things from this: Learned a design process, and I now have an idea of how long it'll take me to work through that process, so I won't procrastinate. Also learned the importance of completely exploring the design possibilities in the early stages, working with and without reference, so that in the later stages I'm not having second thoughts or realizing that it doesn't make sense in 3D. I also learned that I've got to work on my perspective skills some more. I plan to do a better job on all these areas in the next assignment.

[jojo1975]

Just come back to Italy for vacation. Cool about the charriot I will start during/after Xmas and thanks again to our mentor for the project and feedback ;)
Hey is anybody there ;)
If sogbad dont' minf I think I will post a bit later since there is too much celebrating there ;)

[SugaCrcl]

Hey I hope everyone here and all over ConceptArt has a good holiday! I just came back from NYC. I will be working on project 2 at daybreak.

[armando]

I hope you're fast because the sketches are due tommorow!

[SugaCrcl]

There's no way I'm going to rush this one, Armando. I'll do my research, and draw something real cool.

I have four days left of vacation before I go back to my full-time job :\ I'll be using that time to continue working this second project right here. I plan on pushing my concept art knowledge on this one. I'm still working on some sketches here, so I'll post them in my next post. I would like to share my reference material to show that I do have some ideas for this project.

A chariot is a very basic invention to me; a cart with two horses. So I'm going to push that concept to meet the standard of what I think an orc would like. I think the real challenge is designing one bad-ass orc chieftain. If I can design a real good orc, then he would make the chariot look good; or maybe I'm moving away from the assignment...i don't know, let me know.

I have references for the chariot, the monsters that will pull the chariot, and the orc himself. I want to make the chariot look like a torture device, so I'm looking up stuff from the Inquistion and the Dark Ages. I reckon something like an iron maiden would look very intimidating to us. Dog sleds are a good reference too (mental note).

Hopefully my collage of reference pics and notes will suffice until I post my thumbnail sketches.

[armando]

SugaCrl, good ideas but remember this is for a real time strategy game where the characters will be very small, only so much detail will able to be seen.
this chariot... needs to have a very dramatic silhouette as it will appear very small on the screen, big shapes and interesting outlines are the order of the day


Some dirty thumbnails. The draft animals are wargs.

EDIT: forgot to indicate which concepts I think are strongest.
I like 3 the most. 3 wheels is more interesting than two, the large wheel in back was derived from plows, it can plow through the battlefield, rolling over victims like a tank. I'm also interested in incorporating plummage somehow, somewhere. What interests me in 2 is that it looks sort of like a pulpit, which lends authority to the person riding it. I'll probably combine the two ideas.

268653

268654

268655

[SugaCrcl]

good lookin' out, armando :)

I was looking at some LOTR and Warhammer concept art online. The concept artists were still painting characters in detail when the game doesn't require a lot of detail.

Warhammer Concept Art (http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/media/conceptArt/)

Here are some sketches of chariot designs I am working on. I'll concentrate more on the chariot itself, however, I'll end up painting a concept orc chief on a chariot for myself to practice. I like the chariot with the Gorgon face the most. Gorgons are my favorite mythical monsters. I can only imagine Orcs being a servant of a greater power. So I imagined this Orc chief as a leader of Medusa's Orc army or something.

[qabas12]

Thanks SugaCrcl for the ref sheet and weblink, that was just what I needed to get the gears turning. I was initially gonna sit this one out cuz I had no the least clue on what an orc chariot should look like. I should post soon.

[jojo1975]

Yes than SugarCr a lot . Very inspiring and useful post. I was starting me to to think about skipping but I think also my post will come ;)

[SugaCrcl]

Glad I could help, fellas! I can't wait to see what ideas you have. Here are some more of mine. I'm going with the Gorgon-inspired chariot. Skulls make the best war trophy in my opinion, so I drew a lot of them all over the chariot. I added a bunch of skulls on the back of the chariot for a "rattle like a rattlesnake" feature. I go back to work tomorrow :( too bad this isn't my day job. What are the requirements for presentation? Front and side of the chariot alone?

[SugaCrcl]

Hey fellas,

So here is an update of what I've been working on. I decorated the whole chariot with bones and skulls. The medusa face on the front symbolizes their leader. I can imagine the Orcs, under Medusa's command, would wear these specialty helmets that blocks Medusa's "stone-gaze". I drew a snake pattern on top of Medusa's head on the chariot to show what that special helmet could look like. The butt of the chariot rattles from all the chattering skulls. You know when danger's coming what you hear that "rattle".

:medusachow:

[qabas12]

Awesome concepts dudes, but I think your forgeting what Sogbad initially said about the size of the chariot. While having lots of detail, these concepts are easily mistakinable (if that' a word) for horse-drawn wagons or that sort. What happened to the "dramatic silhouette" part of the description. From what I'm seeing, only SurgaCrcl's last post follows that guideline.

[jojo1975]

doing great job to all, probaby I will have to skip this one because of real life.. but I hope next one will be about environmental ! and also not to have to go to congress .. I will during weekend and BTW thanks a lot for the references!!!!

[SugaCrcl]

S'up fellas, sorry that you are skipping this assignment jojo1975, hope is well in your world. I just wanted to say 'what's up' and see if anyone else here is participating in this assignment. I have other WIPs to do, and I'll get back on this project over MLK weekend.

[Sogbad]

I hope you all had a great Xmas/New Year. Sorry I've been away for so long I only got back into town late on Sunday early Monday.

Looks like I've missed quite a lot of nice work, I'll take a good look tomorrow and get back into the swing of it all :)

Martin

[jojo1975]

of course I'm keeping looking at all the post. This class is a unique opportunity for learing.. hope first life will give me soon a break (it should be around next week) and again thanks to our mentor for helping us ;) and wellcome back

[Sogbad]

Hey guys’ I try to catch up in chronological order;

SugaCrcl.
Very nice reference sheets SugaCrcl, try to concentrate on the chariot and not get carried away designing the chieftain, in the real world we would hopefully have that already done before we got to the chariot but I wanted to get a vehicle design assignment, but you should spend some time thinking of the chieftain because it can influence the vehicle design. Sadly it’s all too common (including apparently this assignment ;) ) to have to design something with little or no context or background so it’s always good if there’s nothing to go from to create your own to help bring ‘depth’ to the design.

Armando.
The pulpit idea is nice especially as it’s a command unit and need’s to impress the locals, I also like the plough idea, maybe a body plough to destroy and bury the enemy ;) I would make the plough wheel look a bit nastier too, but I think I agree with you taking number 3 as your base and incorporating some of the ideas from 2. 3 also looks like it will have a nice strong silhouette when it’s shrunk down onto the game screen. Nice consistent sketches too, they allow the viewer to see the differing designs clearly.

SugaCrcl.
The details are still important, the design maybe be seen much larger in the front end of the game or in promotional art, it’s just that the overall shape and size in-game has the highest priority and has to work in-game, so you just have to make sure it works for it’s primary function before moving onto to the other details that will flesh it out.
I like how you have a wide variety of loose sketches covering lots of different ideas, this allows people to

Qabas12. “I was initially gonna sit this one out cuz I had no the least clue on what an orc chariot should look like.”

One thing that’s often neglected or has too little emphasis is communication, especially with concept art, you need to make sure you communicate very thoroughly with the people giving the brief and the people your presenting to, it’s better to over communicate than sit there guessing what someone is thinking, Admittedly on this occasion I was down the pub getting drunk and wouldn’t of been able to help anyway ;)

SugaCrcl.
I think you made the right choice in dropping the beast skull from your final design, you have enough elements that tie together with the Medusa theme already although I might of added some more ‘orcish elements as it has a nice theme but it could be a human, elfish, gnomish or any other race of Medusa cult. The rattling stone skulls could of also been on long strands fanning out form the back of the chariot, entangling and hitting the enemy as the Chariot runs around the battle field. You did a great job of going through the stages on this project, are you finished or still working on it?? If your done I’ll give you a more detail critique on your final visual.

Well once again sorry for my prolonged absence and some of this feedback was obviously too late ;).

I’ll check on where we are all at and see when we want to move on to the next project, which is an interior design.

[armando]

I'll get working on finishing this design. I think I'm the only person still working on it, I don't know, but if that's the case it doesn't really make sense for me to hold up the group if they want to continue with a new assignment, but if no one minds waiting a few days I'll have it finished.

[SugaCrcl]

The short answer is no, Sogbad, but it all depends on when the next project will be assigned. Thanks for critique :) I don't know what 'orcish elements' you are talking about though. I would like to make the Medusa head more scarier. I could have also added a variety of skulls, and not just human skulls. Some human & animal skulls might have given the chariot some more impact. I do like your idea on the rattling stone skulls. I still need some 'dangerous features' on my chariot.

[Sogbad]

SugaCrcl Don't forget that instead of skulls you could have the petrified stone heads taken from Medusa's victims.....

I'll try to get the next project posted this weekend, you can always take some more time to finish this up before moving on to it, I know it can be hard to find the time to get these things done.

[Sogbad]

I'm getting the brief ready for the 3rd project, but I don't want to make anyone rush and not finish something they've started. So you all check in and tell me when you'll be ready to start the 3rd project.

[SugaCrcl]

Here is my project 2. I added some features on the chariot to make it look more it belonged to a servant of the Gorgon :medusachow: I added a tail of skulls on the back that whips around as the chariot is being pulled. I tried to paint the Gorgon head scarier compared to the last drawing. The snake on top holds a jewel that can "stone" enemies. Now, that I'm thinking about it, the stone feature might have taken the spotlight away from the Gorgon herself...but I'm done with it. I'm still practicing with the brush features in PS, trying new things. I try out Painter on the next one.

[armando]

I'll have it done by tommorrow for sure, but I'll try to finish it by tonight.

[Sogbad]

OK, so it sounds like were almost done, I'll post the next brief and feedback tomorrow, the next task is going to be a contemporary interior for a 3rd person spy/stealth game, details tomorrow.

[qabas12]

Hey Sogbad, nice too see you're alive and kicking...I'm looking forward to this next challenge, but in the mean time I've got scholarships to fill out, FAFSA's to fill out, and college applications to fill out. Wish me luck.

[Sogbad]

qabas12, good luck with the forms, I hate officialdom ;)

So here's Project 3


Project 3 Contemporary Interior.

Step 1, Concept. Concept, research and idea creation.

Brief.
You need to design a Computer Core, this is for a 3rd Person Stealth/Spy game set in the present, think Mission Impossible/James Bond/XXX. The premise is that the player has to infiltrate the top secret base deep in the New Mexico wilderness. It’s a government building built in the 70’s so the basic structure would be a little dated but it will have been retro fitted with cutting edge, almost sci-fi level technology.
Function.
The Computer Core is deep within the complex and should have a rough but very secure concrete and steel construction, the player has to deactivate 4 switch boxes around the base of the Core and then plant a bug inside the Computer itself. The computer is a giant structure, over 2 storey’s high and has a wide platform half way up which is accessed by a long staircase.
Attached is the level designers sketch/map with the basic form of the Computer Core.

Deliverable.
You should post your Concept work by 9th February, you should indicate which of your concepts you think are the strongest and which one you want to move forward with. You can deliver your concepts in whatever format you desire as long as it illustrates the concepts sufficiently.

Level Designers Map...


http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/map.jpg

[SugaCrcl]

Excellent! I need a good excuse to watch James Bond, and Austin Powers on dvd, and listen to secret agent on SomaFM :rocker: I've never done an environment scene ever. This will be challenging, what fun!

[armando]

Here's the final.

287635

[SugaCrcl]

armando - this looks real good! I like how you drew your chariot from this perspective, it gives a better idea what the whole thing looks like. My only critique is on the wolf, closest to the camera. You have some lines over his hind legs, and it looks like the leg isn't attached to the body. The paintstrokes looks good too, what did you use for brushes?

[armando]

Thanks for the crit, should have colored over that line. I'm glad that the image is readable, since I hardly know what I'm doing with color and photoshop, definitly going to purchase those Chan and Nox vids soon, didn't even realize how to use the ellipse tool until it was already too late. Used the round brush, any texture comes from the scanned pencil sketch, I put flat color over that in a multiply layer, then added detail on top of that in a normal layer.

[jojo1975]

hello to all if the "first" work doesn't bother me too much I guess I'm in for the third project (will start in weekend). and btw congrats to all also for the second project finished
Giorgio

[Sogbad]

Sugacrcl

Here's a very qucik paintover, the biggest thing is probably that you've mixed perspective and orthographic views, the snake head and arms are in perspective while the rest of the visual is a flat orthographic, you can easily add a little perspective to the rest of it, I added the second wheel, added a tiny bit of the gorgons face, some bars to hold the skulls. I also beefed up the contrast on the lighting, you have a very strong light source coming out of the snakes mouth. The other main area to improve would be the heads, they were very hard to make out, again I did a quick cut and paste, the heads I added were probably too big, but it's only a quick paint over.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/orc-gorgon1-copy-2.gif

armando

It's a nice job on the painting and design, it has a nice loose feel and solid values, it's a sign of the strength of these 2 elements that they can disguise the persepective issues.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/OrcChariotDevms.jpg

It seems that your persepectives line on the chariot don't seem to line up. My only other critique would be on the design and that would be to make it a little more 'spikey'. :)

Martin

[SugaCrcl]

Thanks for the critique, Sogbad! I didn't think of the 2nd wheel at all. I also wasn't sure how intense the light source from the snake head should be, but the size of light ball should have made that decision obvious to me. Comparing yours to mine, I can see that your additions really helped my painting out. I'll remember to keep all this info for next time. Are you going to give another demo on this current project?

[Sogbad]

SugaCrcl "Are you going to give another demo on this current project?"

Well I don't have any saved things for a demo on this interior, but I am about to start on an interior for a personal project, which will go through the same steps, I could post those as I go along if it will help, just keep in mind that the theme will be different.

[SugaCrcl]

I'll take it, Sogbad, if you think it will help.

[jojo1975]

yes Sogbad.. very glad to see hints

[Sogbad]

I have a few things to finish off tomorrow, but I hope to start my interior on Thursday, I'll post as I go on :)

[armando]

I tried to give everything a cheesy 1970's look, rounded off corners, general clunkiness. I could not figure out how to get a retrofitted look, I know pretty much nothing about architecture, but anyway...

The computer core: The main idea is the ball platform thing, I kinda like the goofyness of it.
299458

I decided to give the interior a domed ceiling. Again with the ball motif with the lights. Probably have some sort of panels along the walls. I was thinking of having wires connected to generators in the corners to give visual reinforcement to when the switches are deactivated, the lights could turn off or something.
299459

Some ideas for the computer interface.
299460

The double doors.
299461

The switch boxes.
299462

[jojo1975]

So here a very very quick sketch. I would like to give the impression of very "clean" and zen environment. A bit like in "portal" game with strong edges on the wall. Some "engravings" on the walls also (a bit like death star).Everything shot with a wide angle and I will do it using 3dsmax and then paintover it.
The computer on the center, (like a monolith), stairs on every border and a pit instead of a floor (I like the idea of a dangerous environment and the pit at least deep 3 time the dimension of the borders).
http://www.webalice.it/giorgio.luciano/CGTALK/Interior.jpg
Hope to receive feedback and also to see more people giing it a try.
I will continue working on it in 3d ASAP

[Sogbad]

armando, “I could not figure out how to get a retrofitted look, I know pretty much nothing about architecture” Well you’ve done the hardest part by getting a good 70’s vibe, the nice thing about retrofitting is that by it’s very nature it has a very disjointed and unwieldy look a lot of the time as the retrofitted elements are usually from a more modern time period and ‘bolted’ on for purely functional purposes.

Doing a good reference search won’t make you an architect but will allow you to play one on TV ;). Reference allows you to see what’s out there visually and give you the elements needed to fake the architectural knowledge and create a believable environment.

I like your designs, looks like you’ve covered most of the points. I think the middle and right core designs are the strongest, the middle one has a nice weight to the core in the middle while the cubes on top of the right hand design could work really nicely as well. It’s good that your already thinking about the lighting, and the wires can add a really nice chaotic element to the clean 70’s design. You do have a nice consistent ball theme going as well.

If you get some nice reference for the actual for the actual room shell you’ll be looking good :).




Jojo1975, I like your description of your design, the iconic computer slab dominating the room, and the pit will give the room some nice depth and parallax, your concept rough is a little too rough ;). One of the benefits of doing thumbnails, or small sketches, is they are quick but also that they are small and you can get away with more, if you only have the time to do rough sketches, which is fine, then keep them small enough to get the idea across but not big enough to look bad. Unfortunately good ideas can get written off by people if the presentation is too rough. And again don’t forget to the reference and research, it’s a quick way to get the details needed.

[SugaCrcl]

your thumbs look good, fellas, I'm still working my own thumbs.

[jojo1975]

hello sogbad, thanks for the comment, I wanted to resize but I didn't succed. i's too big and does not like a thumbnail. I will start prototyping in 3dsmax soon.
jojo

[SugaCrcl]

Is anyone working on this project using 2D? i want to do a digital painting of this concept, but I don't know exactly where to start. i'm open for suggestions.

[jojo1975]

I will try a paint over so hybrid 2d/3d but suggestion are always wellcome

[Sogbad]

SugaCrcl "but I don't know exactly where to start. i'm open for suggestions"

Well I'm not sure where to start answering that ;)

If your talking about starting the project, you just go through the steps we have on the previous examples, reference, concept, design and presentation… If you haven’t the time to get this done and are just talking about doing a digital painting you could cheat, just do a quick reference search ‘borrow’ all the elements you need and then start the digital painting. If it’s just the digital painting and you have your design elements ready you start with some quick thumbnail sketches to work out your composition, one that shows all the elements and has a nice pleasing composition. Once you select the composition you like you need to build your perspective for the painting, once the perspective has been done then you get to paint. I’ll start work on my Interior today, it’s not for this brief but a personal project, I’ll post my thumbnails later today.

If I haven’t answered your question on where to start please give me a little more info about where your getting stumped and I’ll try to come up with a better answer.

Martin

[Sogbad]

Hey SugaCrcl, I didn’t get as much time free as I thought today, too much time eating bonbon’s and watching day time soaps ;) But here’s a quick start that I made today on my interior, again it’s a different brief than the one your working on but the process is the same, I have my reference and started doodling for an hour, sketched a floor plan, played with sectional ideas, did some perspective thumbnails…

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/z1.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/z2.jpg

Anyway I hope that helps you a little...

[SugaCrcl]

Yes, this should help, thanks! Interiors are a challenge.

[SugaCrcl]

Here are my concepts for this interior project. The first pic are reference pics I found online. Any crits would be hot :sungod:

[Sogbad]

Hey Sugacrcl, well let’s see, I like your mechanical references the circuit boards and the old telephone exchanges by the look of them, very nice and electro mechanical, not quite sure about the more modern and reference images in terms of a literal interpretation of the brief but the nice funky organic shapes and interesting color and details could definitely be interesting.

As for the first 4 detail sketches I like the them, the bottom door detail embraces the highly detailed and exposed electronics of the telephone exchange aesthetic which could work very nicely with a minimalist and clean look elsewhere. Of the 2 main views I think the top orb based concept is the one to take further, again it seems to have the nice mix of the highly detailed and complicated ‘innards’ that contrast the clean simple lines around it. The orb console has a lot more presence than the single column design below it although the ceiling of the second design could work well with the orb.

The ext step would be to work out the final composition, make sure the perspective is correct and finalize the design. As this is just a single image you can get away with only designing what can be seen in the final composition.

[jojo1975]

thanks for continuing this thread alive. I will render some shots in 3dmax that I would like to paint over to decide which angle to render ;)

[SugaCrcl]

Ah cool, I appreciate it :)

[jojo1975]

OK just a veeery quick rendering to chose which angle and then ready for a paintover
there's the thumbhttp://www.webalice.it/giorgio.luciano/Forum/Orange1.jpg
http://www.webalice.it/giorgio.luciano/Forum/Orange2.jpg
http://www.webalice.it/giorgio.luciano/Forum/Orange3.jpg
http://www.webalice.it/giorgio.luciano/Forum/Orange4.jpg
http://www.webalice.it/giorgio.luciano/Forum/Orange5.jpg

[Sogbad]

Good evening Jojo1975,

So what are your thoughts about the angle, if your going to use the concept to illustrate more of an in-game feel then you should go for the 4th one down, although you should rotate the view a little so that the central unit is not so square to the camera, although it does give quite an iconic look as it is. If you want to have a more informative illustration that gives more of a general look and feel of the whole environment I would go with the 3rd one down as it has a wide, high viewpoint that shows nearly everything that there is to see.

Martin

[jojo1975]

I will render high res image for paintover. thanks for the feedback soogbad :)

[SugaCrcl]

Here is a colored version of my door for this project. It's not fully detailed, but I hope the idea can come across. Any help would be hot :mod: many thanks

[Sogbad]

Hey SugaCrcl, the original idea was to have a final concept of the room as a whole, but if you just want to take the sketch further here's a quick paint over.....


http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/po.jpg

I would add a little more color variation, doesn't have to be a multicolor extravaganza,, but even a few little addition's help to get over the monochromatic. You could add some more dramatic lights, add some quick texture overlays, even some photo ref details. Anyway that's all I did.. Try a quick paint over yourself if you have a paint program, I took about 30 mins including finding ref.

Martin

[jojo1975]

Hello Sogbad, thanks for your patience for following us :) this week I've finished the rendering of 2000x3000 pixel of the angle I've chosen. but now starts the problems. do you have any link /help for a paintover. I never done one and I dont' know here to start :( everyhelp will be appreciated

[Sogbad]

Jojo1975, I haven’t got a real interior to show you how I do it, I’ll be working on one next week, but I have a small example of a simple background that I did for a casual game, it’s a corner of a study which has a character overlaid, which is why it looks empty, they say a good stage looks empty without the actors, that’s my story and I’m sticking to it ;).

So here it is the Study…

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/PO1.jpg

Saying that this is a paint over is a bit of a stretch because there wasn’t all that much painting involved, it was mainly a case of overlaying textures and playing with the lighting. Anyway here’s the steps I went through….


http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/PO2.jpg

1 First step was to build my 3d underlay, I could of easily created it by hand but I wanted to get the layout right for the client and building it in 3d allowed me to quickly give them options as to the composition.

2 Then I started to ‘texture’ the image, I do this by generating a suitable texture in 2d, then using the distort tool in Photoshop I make sure that the texture is perspective correct with the surface I’m going to use it on.



http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/PO3.jpg

3 I then change the layer to an overlay layer, sometimes it’s a multiply or darken or some other layer style that’s wild and wacky. I make sure I change the wood texture for the horizontal panels as the grain runs differently.

4 I drop a picture in the frame, again using the distort option in the transform tool, I paint over some light and dark variation on the wood panels using an overlay layer, I also use another texture overlay on the frame to make it more metallic with more surface variation. I also add some ‘specular’ highlights on the wood panels to push the texture more. I just paint the carpet in and use the noise filter to give it a realistic texture and find a rug picture that I distort and place on the floor in perspective.



http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/PO4.jpg

5 I was going to paint over the book blocks on the shelves, but I thought that might be a lot of work for little gain, shoot me I’m lazy ;). So I did some quick image searches for books, then using the distort tool I made them perspective correct on the shelves, used the brightness/contrast and desaturate adjustments to make them all fit with the scene lighting.

6 Now I added the final lighting tweaks, I painted the shelf shadows on the books, painted over some more very soft shadows to add more contrast to the scene, painted some lighting to add interest to the picture and the center of the book shelves using an overlay layer, then added a black and white vignette as multiply layer to darken the top of the image and then, Bobs your uncle it’s all done and ready to be sent to the client.



I hope that helps a little, if I actually get to do the interior concept next week I'll post that as well.

Martin

[armando]

Thanks for the little tutorial. I have to admit I haven't been keeping on top of this assignment. Is there a particular due date for this? I might not finish it, I just think the few designs I came up with were boring and not worth finishing.

[Sogbad]

armando "is there a due date?"

Well I'm not sure on this one, it seems to have died a slow death, what do other people think, shall we move on to the 4th Project, the character design? I'm more than happy to carry on helping people with this project at the same time??

Whats do people think??

[armando]

I'd rather move on to the 4th project.

[SugaCrcl]

I don't mind, if everyone wants to move on. I will still finish this environment design though and post it for critique. I'm weak in the environment department, so this project has been helping me get more into it.

[jojo1975]

thanks for the minituts.. I will start vcation on thursday and so I will try my first paint over. I will try to finish my interior and i will rather prefer to stick to this one. But I dont' think this exclude that if sogbad would like to "reveal" the 4th assignment.

[Sogbad]

I'll continue to help with Project 3, but lets kick off project 4 for those not finishing up the last project and want to move forwards.

Project 4 Costume Design.

Step 1, Concept. Concept, research and idea creation.

Brief.
This project is going to be a mirror of a project I did while working at Paradigm Entertainment. We were working on Mission Impossible: Operation Surma, a 3rd person action stealth game for Xbox, Ps2 and GameCube obviously based within the Mission Impossible IP. The costume needed was for Ethan Hunt to wear on infiltration missions, a ‘Stealth’ suit, it has to be believable and high tech to fit in with the established themes of the Impossible Mission Force, the organization that Ethan Hunt works for. This being a 3rd person game meant that the rear view was the ‘dominant’ view the view that the player would see most of the time and so was the focus of the design.

If any of you visited my old website I had a tutorial on the steps I went through, I’ll repost them here to show you how I approached the task.

Deliverable.
You should post 3 concepts that could be taken into the design phase. You can deliver your concepts in whatever format you desire as long as it illustrates the concepts sufficiently.

So here's the 'reprint' of my old tutorial which describes how I did this project and should give you some ideas on how to approach it. You'll note that it goes through the same steps that we have used on the other projects.


Old Tutorial.

Character design, Ethan Hunt.
I'm going to go through the steps that I used when I had to redesign Ethan Hunts commando/stealth suit for the 3rd person action adventure game Mission Impossible: Operation Surma. We had inherited a design from the previous developers but needed to redesign it quickly for an upcoming review by Tom Cruise and Universal.

Note, when I am designing I use Bienfang Graphics 360 marker pads and a 5mm blue automatic pencil. Blue is good as its a relatively soft composition which allows for nice sketching and it does not smudge like graphite, allowing you to wander all over the page if necessary without creating a dirty page. Unfortunately one of the downsides to the blue is that it does not scan very well, so please forgive the following sketch pad scans.

Brief.
As with all design tasks it's important to have a clear brief before you begin. My brief was to redesign Ethan Hunts commando/stealth suit to better fulfill the games needs, it had to look dangerous and functional, had to be something that the IMF, Impossible Mission Force, could produce and would have to look great from behind. One of the things you always have to keep in mind when designing characters for 3rd person games is that the character will predominantly be looked at from behind. I'm not sure how long I had to get this designed and finished, I think it was 3 days in total.

Research.
With the brief firm and fresh in mind it's time to begin the research. As this redesign has such a tight deadline I'm pretty restricted with my research outlets, I have to rely exclusively on the Internet and anything I have already.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/HowEH1.jpg

Searching quickly I explore all the areas that I can think of that might have some bearing on the character design. I do the obvious searches for special forces, soldiers of the future, combat protection, military communications, but I also widen the search to include things that could come out of the IMF lab, more high-tech equipment, I look into high end equipment for mountaineering, scuba diving and extreme sports. As I haven't started the concept stage yet I am just looking for interesting things that might influence or generate ideas.

Concept.
Armed with my brief and research it's time to create some ideas and concepts.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/HowEH1A.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/HowEH1B.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/HowEH1C.jpg

At this time it's all about generating as many ideas as quickly as possible. The ideas at this stage can be about anything, functional elements, purely visual details, game play mechanics, anything, just let the ideas flow out onto the page. One trap that some inexperienced designers fall into is that they forget that it's the ideas that are important, it's not about creating a good piece of art at this stage its about generating as many ideas as possible. My initial sketches being a good example of this "not creating good art" approach ;). After reviewing the concepts and the research its clear that there are 3 main ideas evolving, a lower tech conventional commando, a high tech scuba influence and thirdly, a cutting edge futuristic combat suit.


I've narrowed and combined the concepts down to 3 distinct directions, due to the very tight schedule I don't have much real design time, I can only try to solidify details and produce a few quick visuals to demonstrate the basic concepts.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/HowEH2A.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/HowEH2B.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/HowEH2C.jpg

Up to this point I have only been producing rough designs and sketches as they were primarily a tool for my use and other visually literate people, now I had to pitch my concepts to a broader range of people so I needed to produce design sketches to effectively demonstrate the directions for the final character.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/HowEH4A.jpg http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/HowEH4B.jpg http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/HowEH4C.jpg

So I have my 3 design sketches and pitch the differing approaches.
The first lower tech commando design concentrates on today's technology, a protective sweater reinforced at the shoulder, elbow and sides. Assault pads are on the elbows and knees with the equipment being held in place with standard webbing, given an asymmetric layout to break up the symmetry of the character.
The second approach takes most of its cues from cutting edge scuba suits, it has a nice mix of textures, it's water proof and temperature controlled. The suit would also provide a similar level of body protection to that of Kevlar bullet proof vests.
The third approach of a futuristic combat suit offers mush greater protection from its heavy jacket, has in built electronic systems, built in anchor points for additional equipment and an asymmetrical harness system, with some holes thrown in because they look cool.

[qabas12]

Hi everyone long time no see....o my question....Does it have to be male? Can I make a suit for like an Ethana (instead of ethan) Hunt. I suck at male physique.

[Sogbad]

Female's fine with me.

[jojo1975]

I know it's OFF topi but I would like to say happy easter to all class ! these days I will try to work a bit on my interior even if here in Italy the sun has started shining :) and the temptation to go to the seaside is very strong ;)

[Sogbad]

GET TO THE SEASIDE!!!, this thread will be here when you get back ;)

[qabas12]

Female's fine with me.

sweeeet..... thanks dude.....

[SugaCrcl]

Here is an update on my environment project. It's in grayscale, I wanted to get my values down, or at least try to. Any advice or critiques would be hot!

[Sogbad]

Hello there SugaCrcl, nice to see your finishing up the project, I always feel if I stop doing a piece I’ve wasted lots of time but anyway here’s some initial feedback. No matter how good the values and painting technique are if the underlying construction is wrong it won’t matter because the viewer will know that the picture is ‘wrong’. I’m not sure how much time you’ve spent studying perspective but it’s one of the essential keys to creating a good image.

The first thing you need to do when working out the perspective is to work out where the eye level is, the eye level is as the name suggests is the level that the eye is when the image subject is viewed, the eye level is the line on which most of the vanishing points will be. Your initial construction is confusing as it doesn’t appear to have a consistent eye level, the computer core has multiple eye levels on the main ellipse’s and the background room seems to have an eye level on the floor for some things and doesn’t seem to have a back wall.


http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/persp.jpg

So if we think about how the room is viewed, mainly from someone standing in the room and looking around allows us to draw the eye level, once we have that we can quickly take a stab at fixing the perspective to create a more ‘consistent’ image.

Hope that helps a little, once you have the perspective correct then its easier to paint away and get the values sorted :)

[jojo1975]

http://www.webalice.it/giorgio.luciano/Forum/Try1.jpg
It's my first paintover so as Robbie williams say.. please be gentle I'm still learning...
Every feedbakc will be appreciated :)

[SugaCrcl]

Thanks for the feedback, I can see now that my perspective is way off. I'll fix it :)

[armando]

The issue I'm seeing with these designs is that they don't follow the brief. There is no staircase leading to a wide platform at the top of the computer, and the room doesn't follow the layout of the plan given in the brief.

[Sogbad]

Hello everyone, hope the weekends going well.

armando “The issue I'm seeing with these designs is that they don't follow the brief. There is no staircase leading to a wide platform at the top of the computer, and the room doesn't follow the layout of the plan given in the brief.”

I’m not a teacher and have never really mentored anyone in this way before, I’ve mentored at work but that’s different, so I never know how hard to crit, some people are doing this for fun or at least to motivate them to do some concept design, and you all have differing skills and levels and I don’t want to appear harder on some than on others. So I usually just give subtle critics and planer advice on simple right/wrong issues such as perspective…. You are of course correct when it comes to answering the brief, if your not answering the brief your wasting time and money, this is especially true with Industrial Design as the results are much easier to quantify.


jojo1975 The 2 biggest things are the overall values and hue and the lack of references that indicate scale and purpose. By references I mean that it’s very hard to ‘read’ the environment, you could fix this quickly by putting people in the scene or enough recognizable details such as computers, exit signs, steps, handrails, monitors, ladders, things that give the viewer an idea of the scale in human terms. As for the values and hues, there’s certainly lots of ‘atmosphere’ but is the room supposed to filled with gas, because that’s the impression it’s giving, as this would flatten out the contrast and give it a monochromatic palette. If it is gas then try overlay some textures to give it some cloudy details, or if it’s not gas then you need to pump up the contrast and have darker less saturated shadows.

When it comes to the design I could of spotted the scale references early but with paint-over’s lots of the details are painted on a basic 3d render, which is what I thought it was at the time, I should of asked then :(

Did you have fun with the painting, I find it very freeing to paint instead of model or tightly illustrate with tools, I wish I did more of it as I’m far to tight with my illustration style, but then quite often you like art styles that are different to your own.

Well off to watch the football, hopefully the mighty Red Devils can chalk up another win!

Martin

[jojo1975]

Hello Marting,
I would like to thank you for the suggestion give and I have also to say that I'm sorry for the not high quality of the concept.. I will try to find more references and also bettter ideas: i've downloaded the concept art PDF of Bioshock and I hope to find some more hints there. Thanks again sogbad for following us as pupils Hope to see works from other participants on the concept for costume.
Jojo

[Sogbad]

Hi, jojo1975 No need to apologize at all, I'm just trying to help people, maybe not as well as I should ;). It's a long process that never stops when it comes to art and design, and a lot of it, once you get past a certain stage is purely subjective. I am by no means a good artist, I am a good designer, and I only want to try to give some help to fellow creatives on the long and rocky road. I am very happy that people wanted to try the projects I listed and continued to participate.

Martin

[SugaCrcl]

Keep posting those projects, Sogbad, and I'll keep working on them. I'm still on the environment project. I'll try to get something posted today for critique.

[SugaCrcl]

Here is a sketch of my environment. I think I got my perspective down better on this one.

[jojo1975]

dear all,
and especially sogbad. sorry for the OT (even if it's not really an off topic it's just other "artistic" work) me an my collegue Louis are trying to prepare a small project for a short movie (3d mainly) that will be no longer than 3 minutes. We have skill in 3d but we need help expecially in the storyboarding, if anyone of you is interested there's the thread http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=73&t=615804. and for everyone.. keep posting :)

[armando]

I feel like a slob for not getting these done sooner, but here goes:

The main idea I had was some sort of vest, that would smooth out the angles were the head meets the neck. I suppose it could cover the mouth so as to muffle the voice, maybe there's a breathing apperatus. I also wanted to deemphasize the shoulders, and do the opposite of the current trend of giant shoulder armor.

[Sogbad]

Hello everyone, hope you all had a good weekend, I started a full time job again last week, so I had a ‘proper’ weekend for the first time in a while :)

SugaCrcl, yes the perspective is much better, you definitely need to get some figures, or recognizable elements into the scene to help the viewer understand what’s going on.

Jojo1975, I’ll take a look at your project, it’s always good to have multiple projects to work on.

Armando, I couldn’t agree more with you about the giant shoulder armor, you would think it might be getting a little ‘old’ as well as impractical! Definitely keep thinking about possible functional aspects of the design, even if it never had to be practical because it adds details and helps to spur the creative juices. One thing to watch is that the suit is for the hero, so you have to make sure it makes him, or her ;), suitably heroic, the sketch on the bottom left, while an a nice design makes him look less heroic, it kind of make him look like he’s worried about being hurt. Of the top ones I like the one on the left and the 3rd from left the best, the first one looks restrained and sleek while the 3rd one is more dynamic form with interesting negative shapes.

[SugaCrcl]

I need some help with this environment sketch. I started out with the idea that the Secret Agent Spy is in a giant motherboard room, with capacitors and circuits; you know, when computers filled an entire room back in the day? The light at the bottom is heat powering the room. Any help would be hot.

[SugaCrcl]

Here's another WIP of the environment. I went back to grayscale and started painting away.

[SugaCrcl]

Okay, here is another attempt to look at. I put my perspective lines down on another layer so you can see the design better. Right now, im taking a step back to assess the design myself. Here is my WIP, flipped horizontally to pick out my mistakes easier.

[Sogbad]

Hey there SugaCrcl, hope your having a good weekend, I'm not sure I like this full time working thing again, don't have as much free time ;) !!

If you want to finish this design up as final presentation piece you should definitely get your perspective right, well it's always essential but sometimes with a sketch you can get away with a little.

The issue that jumps out first, and it was in your earlier perspective is that you take your room perspectives all the way up to the eye level, that makes the room's absolutely massive. I've drawn the pink eye level in, and your room details go all the way up to it, the red line would be a better distance to end the room, depending on the size and scale of the room, but the room would never go all the way to the eye level, it would be a room 24 miles long ;).



http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/computer-copy1.jpg

For a perspective view of a room like this I would always go for at least a 2 point perspective, even if it's only a slight angle like the additional pink lines I've added.

Martin

[armando]

I didn't even notice that problem with the pose, ha, yeah it looks like his mom bundled him up, or he's in some sort of uncomfortable bungie harness.

Here's a little more development on those two ideas. Thinking ninja on the one on the right, with the black belt, and the baggy pants. The triangular shapes could be vents, or perhaps satelite tracking devices.

[SugaCrcl]

Thanks for the feedback, Sogbad :) I know how it is working full-time and working on the lessons. I really appreciate your time in this class.

[SugaCrcl]

I'm going to move on to the commando project, I want to catch up with everyone else. I think I've received some good feedback on my environment project to improve future enviro projects. So back to the commando project, I've posted my references here.

[Sogbad]

Sorry for my Tardiness, been busy getting up to speed at my new gig, having to learn tools I used while ago, anywho enough with the whining on with the crits :).


Armando, very nice clean sketches that clearly show the designs. I personally like the design on the right the most, although I would probably make a hybrid and use the legs form the design on the left, for some reason whenever I see the pants tucked into boots it reminds me too much of the Nazi’s. I’m also a strong believer in asymmetry, with the increased memory and power of today’s consoles we don’t have to worry so much about having symmetrical designs to save game resources. The design on the right looks more purposeful and modern/near ‘futurey’, I might push or add some details to break up the silhouette more, you have the holster strap and gun, the belt and pouch on the midriff, these could be pushed out a little more, maybe even make the triangular shapes stick out more, although I’m not quite sure about that one, might look a bit silly?

I like that you’ve thought about functional elements to the design, the triangular vents, because it helps out when you start detailing design elements, if it has a function you incorporate those functional details into the visual flair.

So normally in production you would now be working on the final design, if I was the AD it would follow the feedback I’ve given, and presented into a final front and rear sketch like the ones you have, just with more, and hopefully final details, after that it would be some color exploration and options before rendering the final presentations.




SugaCrcl, a nice selection of images, although you can never have enough referecence, I see you like the body armor ;), one think we also have to keep in mind is the context of the game, whether it’s realistic, sci-fi, a near future mix, and make sure our designs fit in. On our ‘Game’ we are definitely in the near future and cool sphere which allows us to take liberties, actually we have to take liberties it has to look cool first while still maintaining some believability. I like the body armor just under the SWAT vest, it has a really nice variety in surface textures that can look great with the latest game graphic techniques, normal, specular and OA textures and is something to think about when designing, getting an interesting blend of shiny, matt, bumpy and smooth textures. Asymmetry is again another good element to bring into your designs. One other challenge to balance with this type of design is to make the hero look suitably tough without making the costume design look to protective, he is a hero after all and shouldn’t look like his ‘hiding’ from harm.

[SugaCrcl]

I see what you mean, Sogbad. Here is my 1st attempt, see attached. Everything on the suit is not padded. So I have to work on making my cloth look more like cloth.

[Sogbad]

It's a good start SugaCrcl, although the anatomy is somewhat overpowering the design, if your anatomy isn’t very good you should practice and become good at it, as well as cheat like I would ;), this task is about designing a stealth suit not an anatomy study, so I would find a good source for my figure and design over the top. I picked a bad example but I only searched for a minute.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/sogbad/feedback.jpg

"So I have to work on making my cloth look more like cloth."


Again observation is the root of all evil, evil?, I meant art ;). In the bottom right I did a quick paint over, use reference of fabric and folds from appropriate sources and pay attention to the relative hardness/softness of form and light.

[armando]

Updating to show I'm still alive. Design is still unfinished.

Got rid of the tucked in pants. Design more assymetrical. Adding detail and construction, the holster for example. Planning on adding hints of electronic components on the back. I think I'll continue that line from the boots all the way up the leg.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a152/_armando_navarro/StealthSuitsnew_edited-2.jpg

[armando]

Here is the final design.

[jojo1975]

Hello Armanda. For me ti+as a very good work :) Probably you can one more "layer" of colour to give more details to the whole design.

2 Sogbad I+m sorry I could not partecipate more actively to the thread, but I really like to continue "following" this class and once again thanks for this opportunity you give us. and also thank to anyone in the class. I really leanred a lot in the phase of making "concepts" :) I hope we will continue to learn together