Cooking with Idiot: Frank Wade and Ben V Edition [Archive]

Ben V

September 28th, 2007, 09:25 AM

1. Introduce yourself!

My name is Ben Vinkenburg, 19 years old and I originate from the netherlands. Tho born and raised here I do not feel the urge to stick around here in holland for much longer. Because of this I want to get my skill level up to par with industry standards in country's such as canada and america. I have been taking drawing seriously from my 16th so I have been drawing for about 3 years now. In my free time I like the draw in my sketchbook and paint with oils on occaision, other than that I like making music (play the saxophone) hangin' out with friends or practicing capoeira. The music I like to listen to differs alot from day to day, I am always up for some good Jazz music or some chill out beats. Hope this gives you a bit of a description about me, if you want to know anything else just ask :)

2. Explain what it is you are looking to learn.

Like I said I want to get my skills up to par with industry standards. Because of this I want to learn EVERYTHING. I am beginning to learn 3d animation and modelling but my main passion stays for concept art. The things I still have alot of trouble with are environments and coming up with original designs when lacking sleep. Wich is basicly 6 days a week. besides this I ofcourse also want to further develope my knowledge of human anatomy, clothing and character/creature design.

3. Visit each others sketchbooks, give a crit. Point out each others strengths and constructively identify one possible weaknesses. Link it back here.

I will do this the moment I get back home when I have some more time.

EDIT: http://conceptart.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1470241&postcount=57

4. Point out your OWN stengths and identify what you believe to be your greatest weakness.

I think my greatest strength is my motivation to learn and do whatever it takes to reach my goals. as for my weaknesses... where to start... I think the biggest issue is lack of being able to finish my work. I never get anything finished... sigh

And thanks Idiot Apathy for giving me this opportunity, really appreciate it, wont let you down.

Frank Wade

September 28th, 2007, 01:13 PM

Assignment ZERO:

1. Introduce yourself!

My name is Frank Wade and I am a 20 year old aspiring artist. I was born in Oklahoma City and then at age two moved out into the country. I relied on the internet to connect me to the outside world, especially concerning art. I have been studying art for about 5 or 6 years now. I love music, philosophy, and trying different drugs.

I am currently at Oklahoma State University, but I'm not sure why. My goal as of now, is to study and draw as much as I can, so that someday, I can make it into the CA Atelier. I'm taking the next semester off to pursuit this.

My favorite subject to draw or paint is definitely people. I love to draw girls, especially their faces. My main goal with my art however, stems back from when I was young, playing different role-playing games. The characters where so inspiring to me! They seemed so brave and real to me at that time. Throughout my life, I realize that some values I hold true have been derived from them. Later, I realized that someone designed those characters and put everything they had into it. It's a great outlet to express yourself.

I want to create so that I might inspire others, and at my current skill level, I can't even express what I want in my art fully.

2. Explain what it is you are looking to learn.

I want to form and understand a strong and simple process of doing environments, and a general, critical, thought process to maintain while doing so.
How to compose images based on color and value instead of placement. I just feel like I need more complex compositions.
I would like to learn more about texture. How to represent different materials, like metal armor or grassy fields. This gives me a lot of trouble.
I would like to develop my understanding of human anatomy in general, but more so the female body and specifically the legs.
Absolutely anything you feel important for me to learn or work on. :P

3. Visit each others sketchbooks, give a crit. Point out each others strengths and constructively identify one possible weaknesses. Link it back here.

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1470000&postcount=26

4. Point out your OWN stengths and identify what you believe to be your greatest weakness.

My greatest strength is in portraits, specifically male portraits, although I enjoy doing female portraits more. I also have a very critical eye which is helpful.

My greatest weakness is that I'm gridlocked in my art. Whenever I go to design a character, male or female, the angle of the head, the perspective of the body, even down to the hands and feet, I am completely at the mercy of what is comfortable. I get stuck in my comfort zone, and it's been a long time since I've pushed myself out. Faces stay straightforward, or 3/4th view. Bodies face the viewer. It's all static and boring. I think this is my biggest weakness. I'm scared!

Idiot Apathy

September 28th, 2007, 07:52 PM

Frank Assignment One:
Working in black and white you will do 10 environment thumbnails. These are composition sketches, you will focus on capturing the viewers attention. Doing thumbs you will focus on shapes and how they control the eye and doing so in black and white you will focus on how value does the same. It is my hope that this will help you form the "strong and simple process of doing environments, and a general, critical, thought process" you are after as well as more complex compositions (everything starts basic) as well as value composing and color composing (value is the most important part of color).

I would like to see:
a variety of canvas sizes, both portrait and landscape.
a variety of environments.
in at least 4 I want to see you place a simple silhouette figure.

Notes about your thoughts are REQUIRED. (Is there anything that is troubling you? Did you make any breakthroughs? Any questions?) Taking notes will not only help you learn, but will help me help you learn :P

Due Date: Sunday Oct. 7th (The sooner you finish the sooner we can move on however, provided I'm free :P)

Break a leg homey!

Idiot Apathy

September 28th, 2007, 07:57 PM

Ben Assignment One:
Hey dude, I've got a few ideas for you - but you didn't really hit anything too specific on your introduction like Frank did. Is there something specific or shall we just go ahead?

Ben V

September 29th, 2007, 11:58 AM

Basically I just want to learn everything, so it might be a good idea to work on the same assignment as Frank. On the other hand, if you have a better idea of what I should be workin' on I have no problem with doing something else for this week.

Ben V

October 2nd, 2007, 05:50 PM

So here are my 10 thumbs. I hope this is what you meant with thumbs Idiot Apathy, they are all pretty quick. I wrote down the notes right after I finished a piece.

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/6958/thumb01wv2.jpg

1. After trying out some different methods of approaching it I found out that starting with a midtone works the best. After that I try to define a basic silhoutte of the environment by using a lighter value for the sky. afterwards I can start defining what I want to actually show in the enivornment. I find myself having trouble with finding a good composition, also figure placement is a problem here...

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/7769/thumb02zn6.jpg

2. Trying out some different shapes and forms, starting to see to much similairity between this one and the first. Going to try some different burshes in the next one and see if that helps things out, not really happy with this one.

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/4326/thumb03se6.jpg

3. Trying out the brushes that came with the Vyle speed painting dvd. they really seem to help to block in some basic texture and shapes. Still find myself just wingin' it when it comes to composition, going to read up on this for the next thumb.

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/6029/thumb04lz6.jpg

4. Damn... attempting to paint water, way harder than I tought it would be, it doesnt really read like water to me. I like the composition a little more, tried to aply "the rule of thirds" composition technique to this one, seems to work better than what I have been doing before. Time to start experimenting more with placement of major elements.

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/9004/thumb05db3.jpg

5. Finding myself having trouble with the perspective, maybe I should try using guidelines on the next thumb....

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2866/thumb06az9.jpg

6. Tried not to use any of the custom brushes on this one, instead I tried to define some basic shapes and put a little action sequence in. I also used some persperctive guides to help me out on this one. Found out that it does seem to help when doing cityscapes but if you would be doing naturalistic environments I think i'd be better off not using any guidelines.

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/9237/thumb07vz1.jpg

7. Tried to create more of a mood in this one, also tried to create some more interaction between the figure and the environment.

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/1751/thumb08io8.jpg

8. Went for a different sort of environment on this one, a cave. dont really like how it turned out. No custum brushes used in those one, I need to work on finding a mixture between custom brushes and actual painting.

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/7860/thumb09tx9.jpg

9. Tried to do another cave environment. I think this one went a little bit better than the last, mainly because of the better composition and better use of texture.

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/5199/thumb10aj3.jpg

10. I like the way I did the sky in this one but thats probably mainly because of the moon.

To sum it up: what I still find myself having trouble with in general is:

- Finding compositions that work.
- Figure placement (part of composition ofcourse)
- Balance between custom brushes and actual painting (going to start making my own brushes so I dont have to keep ripping on Vyle)
- Creating a "epic" feel in my pieces, if that makes any sense.

Frank Wade

October 2nd, 2007, 10:45 PM

Alright, here's mine, notes first.

I just wrote down anything I was thinking whenever I thought to. :P

What do rounded surfaces do to the viewers eye as opposed to flat surfaces? How can I take advantage of different shapes?

I feel like my value range isn't good enough.

I need to keep in mind not to center my focus point, it's boring.

Should my foreground mid ground and background be clearly separated? Is it good for this separation to be obvious?

I'm trying to make elements of the composition aim or angle towards the focal point.

I'm wondering what's important regarding different page layouts in terms of environmental compositions..

With a flat land type, maybe a strange texture hole shape thing will draw attention?

I have realized that the focus point should be the first thing in mind when starting.

The viewer needs detail to stop on, so the focal point should provide that.

Vertical compositions are hard -- I don't understand..

I tried a composition with some trees for a vertical comp, I can't think of interesting shapes.

Maybe if I use random lines for a while in the beginning I can pick out interesting shapes and elaborate on them..

about my brushes
I find that somewhere between 50-70% opacity good for these, with a dark value and pen pressure set to opacity so I can get a wider
range of value without using the color picker.

I liked finding random shapes I think it works ok for me..

I realize that I jump quickly to the things I like..

I am quick to attempt to balance a composition as soon as I feel like it's unbalanced..

I keep repeating "use shapes to draw the viewers attention" and I only think about squares and circles wtf

trying smaller, more abstract shapes

Working from the back, the sky then foreground and work from there.. but this doesn't seem to work very well.

That's all I took, it is kinda hard to take notes while making thumbs, it disrupts any momentum I pick up. But, I understand the necessity, I just hope I put down something that can help.

Ok, thumbs:

Idiot Apathy

October 3rd, 2007, 12:41 AM

Ben, These are hotsauce man. Good shape and brush control and such a nice range of values and shapes not to mention an impressive variety in subject matter and composition. Cow! Great notes too! *high five*

1. Great conclusion, you are already putting in great thoughts to process and efficency. WOO! Good gradiations too, adds a lot of depth and atmosphere. Composition is fine, though I think you are right about the placement of the figure. I would either move him away from what I see as your main focal point (that door) or combine him with it. At the moment he is a bit tangent of it you know? Great start! numbatwo!

2. Not a fan of the spacing artifacts in your brushstrokes here. Lower the spacing! Figure is a bit odd, but at the same time it adds quite a bit of character, character is good! I like the composition, nice - simple and direct. pow. Looks like you are fighting your brush a bit though, besides the spacing. Are you using manual opacity?

3. Brushes can be great timesavers or visualization tools but I think you also need to be able to render with the simplest of brushes. Not to say don't use custom brushes, just don't always rely on them. Actually don't always rely on anything :) Love the path on this one, really cool and I will have to steal it sometime. Sky could use some more love and thought, So much is possible with the sky and clouds - they are your most flexible tool for composition, make use of it! Did you paint those birds by hand or did you use photo/custom brushes? If it's #2, hahah nice! You already have a cheap bag of tricks! :D Brownie point. Composition wise I wish the horizon wasn't so close to dead center, same with the the furthest right edge of the archway. Variety is the spice of life, try and keep your shapes different and interesting - including negative shapes. Anyhow, great job on this one too! *gives you a cookie*

4. Haha, sweet! Again, very direct. I love it. Water ... yes. Water is so hard. Still wrapping my head around it as well. Best thing to do anytime you can't figure it out is use reference, study it! I've foolishly shyed away from using reference for a long time and have just barely come to understand it's importance and how to utilize it. Anyhow, good narrative in this pic too - adds so much interest.

5. Nice, great variety of shapes and surfaces. Not kean on the spacing artifacts from your brush here again, this time on the fence. Perspective doesn't bother me, the only thing that would be really affected is the fence, but there is only one so it's hard to tell really. If it feels odd it's because it's of contrast - sometimes contrast can make something feel out of place. Here the contrast is more mmm, psychological? Having only once fence feels out of place, a bit arbitrary perhaps. I think this could be a really cool image if you extended the fence down the side of the river, zigzagging the whole way. Next!

6. Hey that's a color! :O You failed! Hehe kidding. Values are sometimes imperfect in distinquishing things, that's where color can really help. You know in some old black and white movies they used chocolate syrup instead of blood? :O. Anyways, great variety here man - you've got balls doing a cityscape! The figure in the shadow is such a pro move, he pops so so very well with the dark foreground against the light middle and background. You could perhaps take this even further and have a darker background, light layers of light and shadow. The figure is nice too, the figure getting shot bugs me a little though, more placement than anything else. Great notes, man I am super impressed at how analytical and adventurous you are being.

7. Hotsauce! Very different. I need to do more night scenes ... flashlights... mmm. *highfive* Composition could be a little more interesting, just a change in viewpoint could do wonders. You could make it more personable, zoom us in on the figure perhaps. Not completely keen on the path either, very straight - I really liked the path on #3 in contrast.

8. Again, hotsauce! Great seperation of foreground and background, does wonders for your depth - and you spice that up even more by placing your figures where you did. I even like the massive amounts of black negative space. Yeah this one is ace. You should take it further! Wait what? You don't like it? :O

9. Good thoughts in this one and good focal points - especially good use of the figure placement. I wish the cracks in the wall weren't centered in the middle of the canvas though. Ouch! Could perhaps use more even higher values inside the cave. Anyhow, lots of potential in this one too. Man, I think I will do some caves! :O

10. Not a big fan of this one :O Lots of wasted space and once again equal space division. Nothing a quick crop can't fix ;) I call it the crop'n stop. :P haha, ok I am getting tired. Really impressed overall duder, *high five*

---
Assignment Two: Due date: ASAP :P
1. Identify your two strongest thumbnails. Analyze why they are your strongest.
2. Identify your two weakest thumbnails. Analyze why they are your weakest.
3. Once you finish, I will tell you where to go ;)

Franky frank, Imma get yours tomorrow - word? Hold off on part two until then ok?

Noë

October 3rd, 2007, 02:47 AM

Hey Idiot Apathy, Frank Wade and Ben V!
I'd just like to say I really like where this thread is going.. The thumbnails are looking très sweet! (much better than my first four turned out anyways :P).
I hope you don't mind that I do some of the assignments on my own? I think I can learn a lot from doing these myself and checking the great advice on your assignments back here.

Oh, by the way, maybe I'm not supposed to post responses here? If that is so; please PM me and I'll delete this post.

Keep it up! ^^
Love
Marleen

EDIT; I didn't mean to ask if I could post my assignments here as well :) I'd just like to follow along in the background. I'm getting plenty of awesome feedback in my sketchbook anyways.
EDIT2; Hey ^^ Ben lives in Holland, I only just noticed.. Stop by at the dutch sketchmeetings thread once (it's in my sig) ^^

Ben V

October 3rd, 2007, 05:30 PM

First of all Idiot apathy I want to thank you alot for your critique, you have no idea how much it helps me.

Not a fan of the spacing artifacts in your brushstrokes here. Lower the spacing!

I actually used one of my own brushes on that (sort of a palette knife brush), is there any way you can save the spacing in the default preset? It always keeps jumping back for me

Are you using manual opacity?

I am only using the "other dynamics" opacity by pen pressure.

Did you paint those birds by hand or did you use photo/custom brushes? *gives you a cookie*

It's a custom brush... mmmm... cheap tricks... tasty.. *munches on cookie*

Assignment 2:

1. Identify your two strongest thumbnails. Analyze why they are your strongest.

Personally I think thumnail number 3 and 7 are my best, mostly because they both tell a story wich adds great interest for me. Now that I look at it a day after I think that the way I did the clouds in these 2 also really helps set the mood and helps with the composition. this doesnt mean I think these thumbnails have the most potential of being a awesome painting, as for that I think those are 6 and 3. Every time I look at them I see all these tasty details I can add and especially after your critique I see lots of ways to improve them.

2. Identify your two weakest thumbnails. Analyze why they are your weakest.

At the moment I think number 2 and 5 are my weakest. At number 2 I think the reason why it is so weak (not taking the brush spacing into concideration) is because there is no clear subject matter, also the composition is pretty basic and its just boring to look at (mainly because there is nothing happening). As for number 5 I think the main reason why I dont like it is the value's and the lack of clouds. In this one I still see potential tho, especially after reading your critique. I think if I would spend a little more time on this it could turn out to be a pretty nice composition.

So to conclude on what i've learned:

- Add a little bit of story/personality to the environment.
- Clouds can really help sell the picture/composition.

Idiot Apathy

October 4th, 2007, 12:13 AM

What do rounded surfaces do to the viewers eye as opposed to flat surfaces? How can I take advantage of different shapes?
Rounded, depends on what exactly you mean. Rounded objects will of course have different shaped light sides as well as shadows and generally their edges are a bit softer. Go into more detail and I can too (hopefully :P). Different shapes? Use them to keep things interesting, variety is the spice of life. Use them to lead the eye - generally USE them! Make them have a purpose.

I feel like my value range isn't good enough.
Agreed. Punch it up! You don't usually want a full value range on a single object or even area - but you can just about always get away with a full value range in the entire image.

I need to keep in mind not to center my focus point, it's boring.
Yup, learned from your mistakes - most important thing you will ever do.

Should my foreground mid ground and background be clearly separated? Is it good for this separation to be obvious?
They don't have to be, but it can really help. If you have a good reason for them not to be or find yourself abusing it - branch out!

I'm trying to make elements of the composition aim or angle towards the focal point.
Good man! It can even be good to make incredibly obvious at times. It can be a bit cheese, but cheese can be good too :P

I'm wondering what's important regarding different page layouts in terms of environmental compositions..
You mean canvas dimensions? Not incredibly important, but more variety means more experimentation - and it's through experimentation that you learn. Maybe not so much with drugs though :P

With a flat land type, maybe a strange texture hole shape thing will draw attention?
:O Hahaha, that sounds really bizarre. Generally in just about everything we experience it's contrast that makes things stand out. Same is then of course true with visual experiences. Red stands out in an ocean of blue. Circles stand out amongst squares. Curves to straight lines. So on and so forth, it can even be intellectual contrast or just less visual and more mental.

I have realized that the focus point should be the first thing in mind when starting.
Not necessarily. It should probably be in mind most of the time though. Just make sure you have one!

The viewer needs detail to stop on, so the focal point should provide that.
Yeah for sure, but just as important the viewer needs nothing to look at just so the detailed areas have -wait for it- contrast and will draw attention.

Vertical compositions are hard -- I don't understand..
Haha, Especially with landscapes. After all, the opposite of portrait compositions is called landscape. You might try shifting your focus vertically rather than horizontally.

I tried a composition with some trees for a vertical comp, I can't think of interesting shapes.
Go abstract. Shapes are shapes, they don't need to be anything right away. That's one of the most pleasant things when working from chaos, figuring out what things will be. Make them interesting and then make then into something. Not always how you will and should do things, but have fun with it.

Maybe if I use random lines for a while in the beginning I can pick out interesting shapes and elaborate on them..
BAM! I should have just read ahead. Good man! *high five*

about my brushes
I find that somewhere between 50-70% opacity good for these, with a dark value and pen pressure set to opacity so I can get a wider
range of value without using the color picker.
I can't stand manual opacity. It's clumsy and messy. I really recommend you set manual opacity to 100%, set your brush up with opacity and flow to pen pressure. It will be so much smoother and so much more natural. I also have alt on my pen switch so I can color pick constantly, this way I rarely have to open the color picker unless I need to to introduce a new color.

I liked finding random shapes I think it works ok for me..
Yeah buddy! Me too, lots of fun.

I realize that I jump quickly to the things I like..
? What you mean? Subject wise? Find yourself doing the same thing over and over or what?

I am quick to attempt to balance a composition as soon as I feel like it's unbalanced..
Good, it's a balancing act that you have to do constantly. But think outside the box at times, it's not always shapes and values that can balance things. (it's of course contrast again), but figures can often balance other much larger areas. Color can be a real beautiful balancer as well.

I keep repeating "use shapes to draw the viewers attention" and I only think about squares and circles wtf
Hehe, there are an infinite amount of shapes Frank!

trying smaller, more abstract shapes
Word.

Working from the back, the sky then foreground and work from there.. but this doesn't seem to work very well.
You are smart to work back to forward when it's from reference or life, in digital - unless you know what you are doing, probably not going to work. Your priority is instead - idea generation.

1. Definitely leads the eye around. Could probably use more values, but not necessarily. You will just have to make up for the loss in visual interest elsewhere.

2. Nice, this the textured hole one? Definitely draws the eye, good to see you thinking about this sort of thing.

3. I really like this one. Nice and simple, lots of potential. The hill really controls your eye. POW!

4. Not working very well for me. Definitely some interesting shapes, but my eye keeps getting kicked out of the canvas. You can almost think of your shapes like the way a ball makes its way through a pachinko machine. Is it going to keep me in the canvas or kick me out?

5. nice, good trail for the eye to follow. Figure adds a bit of story and a lot of interest *high five* He might be better on the other side, not sure but it feels a little unbalanced.

6. Mm, good value range and good aerial perspective. Kept your darks right up front too. Nice. Horizon seems to be tilted, not sure I like that. If you have a reason for it, then sweet. If not, why?

7. Needs more values or more interest elsewhere. Just detail I suppose. Strong negative shapes like the gate looking shape here are usually heavy focal points. Not a bad thing, well it could be... but not here :O Consider overlapping shapes more, great way to add/show depth and add interest.

8. Tents! Not bad, good depth. Compositionally the tent on the left traps my eye on that second edge. Usually our eyes enter a canvas from the left, so I generally check to make sure nothing is going to keep me from making my way across the canvas here.

9. Kewl. Can't figure out the scale or really what it is. Figures are an instant scale marker. Good job offsetting the shapes here, they are very symmetrical but by doing what you did you've kept it interesting.

10. TrRREeeees. I like this one. Pretty good comp and lots of depth caused mainly by overlap. Brush strokes are a bit dirty.

Make them bigger next time ok? :)

Assignment Two: Due date: ASAP
1. Identify your two strongest thumbnails. Analyze why they are your strongest.
2. Identify your two weakest thumbnails. Analyze why they are your weakest.
3. Once you finish, I will tell you where to go

Frank Wade

October 4th, 2007, 11:40 AM

Alright! Thank you for the in depth crits. I feel like I've learned a lot already. Some of my questions where not worded very well, sorry for any confusion. And yes, I will make them bigger next time, my bad.
---
Assignment TWO:

1. Identify your two strongest thumbnails. Analyze why they are your strongest.

My two strongest are number 3 and 6. Number 3 is working as a composition because of the main, dominating hill that slopes towards the the shape in the horizon. It leads the eye directly to focal point, nice and simple. Number 6 is my favorite, I think the values are good. I like the lighting possibilities and I think where the camera is creates a good dynamic feel.

2. Identify your two weakest thumbnails. Analyze why they are your weakest.

Ah, my two weakest thumbnails. Number 4. I completely see what you mean about it. When I just look at it, I can't find a spot to really stop on right away. It doesn't flow well and doesn't have a strong focal point. Number 7 has no flow, the eye just stops in the middle. The shapes are boring and the figure isn't placed effectively.

---

Ready for Assignment 3!

Idiot Apathy

October 4th, 2007, 09:00 PM

Ben: After you have changed the spacing you will have to save a new brush to replace your old one. In addition to opacity by pen pressure you may also enjoy using flow by pen pressure and manual flow if you need to blend even further.

Assignment 3: DUE DATE: OCT 14
Frank:
1. Rework your number 6 taking into account the critique and any thoughts you had. Move it past thumbnail stage into sketch. Refine shapes and begin adding preliminary detail.
2. Rework Ben's number 7 taking into account the critique and any thoughts you had. Move it past thumbnail stage into sketch. Refine shapes and begin adding preliminary detail.
3. Rework your number 4 taking into account the critique and any thoughts you had. Move it past thumbnail stage into sketch. Refine shapes and begin adding preliminary detail.
4. Rework Ben's number 2 taking into account the critique and any thoughts you had. Move it past thumbnail stage into sketch. Refine shapes and begin adding preliminary detail.

Ben:
1. Rework your number 3 taking into account the critique and any thoughts you had. Move it past thumbnail stage into sketch. Refine shapes and begin adding preliminary detail.
2. Rework Frank's number 3 taking into account the critique and any thoughts you had. Move it past thumbnail stage into sketch. Refine shapes and begin adding preliminary detail.
3. Rework your number 5 taking into account the critique and any thoughts you had. Move it past thumbnail stage into sketch. Refine shapes and begin adding preliminary detail.
4. Rework Frank's number 7 taking into account the critique and any thoughts you had. Move it past thumbnail stage into sketch. Refine shapes and begin adding preliminary detail.

Idiot Apathy

October 9th, 2007, 02:25 AM

How's it coming guys?

I did 3 30 minute sketches in black and white. The sort of thing we have been doing in here, well almost :) A few cheap tricks. Anyhow, I also recorded them as I was doing them; maybe you will find them interesting.

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1479648&postcount=120

Ben V

October 9th, 2007, 03:07 AM

Damn you idiot apathy! you make it look so easy! :P

Anyway I am coming along slowly but steadily, I'll be done before the deadline :) Those vids were really helpfull, kind of shows me I have been going about it the wrong way. Oh and you have to tell me the songs you used in those vids, love em.

Frank Wade

October 9th, 2007, 12:50 PM

Amazing, I am going to devour these and squeeze out something good.

Also, I love the little guy and dog that repeat in all three, a nice little story it adds. Great work man, very inspiring!!

I will also be done by the deadline.

Ben V

October 14th, 2007, 03:33 PM

ugh... been sick all week, tried my best anyway overall not too happy with the results.

Frank's #3:
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/2911/assignment03thumb02nj6.jpg

Ben's #3
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/8171/assignment03thumb03cd0.jpg

Frank's #7:
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/1423/assignment03thumb01xy6.jpg

Ben's #5
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/7026/assignment03thumb04vu0.jpg

Frank Wade

October 15th, 2007, 09:17 PM

Sorry to keep you fellas waiting!

Man, these changed a lot.

My #6
http://www.f.oceansend.com/2007/assignment3_sketch1.jpg

Ben's #7 (Nighttime is difficult..)
http://www.f.oceansend.com/2007/assignment3_sketch2.jpg

My #4
http://www.f.oceansend.com/2007/assignment3_sketch3.jpg

Ben's #2
http://www.f.oceansend.com/2007/assignment3_sketch4.jpg

Idiot Apathy

October 15th, 2007, 09:23 PM

I didn't specifically ask for them, but if you have any notes on this one post them. All exercises will require notes from here on out. Remember, it's not just what you've learned - but what you have had trouble with. Use these to ask any questions you have, make it much easier for me to help :)

Working on replies :)

Frank Wade

October 15th, 2007, 09:38 PM

Ok, on the notes: I don't have any. But I will remember to take them from now on, sorry about that.

However, I did watch your videos a few times each and stole some of your tricks. I had a couple questions about layers types you where using. When you go to "remix" a landscape, (merging all the layers, copy+paste, transform), is overlay the only layer type you use?

I had better questions, but I forgot them. :P

man.. I have the urge to do more landscapes all of a sudden..

edit: ok so I just did one for fun, thought I would post here for feedback (if you have time). I guess this was kinda a warm down. Or maybe I'm just warmed up, I don't know but this was fun.

Frank Wade

October 22nd, 2007, 12:35 PM

Mentor! I am in need of assignments!

Idiot Apathy

October 22nd, 2007, 01:19 PM

Haha, sorry buddy. Will wrap up tonight and get the new assignment up, been a busy week!

Idiot Apathy

October 22nd, 2007, 10:23 PM

Ben: Hey dude, hope you are feeling better.
Frank's #3: What I liked most about franks thumb was how simple it worked with so little - efficient. The hill brought you down to the ground and then your eye hit the structure in the background. I think you lost that a bit here. The figure - even if it wasn't psychologically a focal point - would still draw the eye due to it's complexity (a contrast with the overall simplicity) as well as it's value contrast. Though I think both the figure and the camel are great additions and tell a story, I think their placement may not be an improvement on the thumbnail. I think you manange some good depth, but you could increase this further with a more obvious/distinct middle ground. Great rendering on the path, very interesting shapes. Kudos for trying something this hard :) Oh, good to see you thinking about using clouds for composition. Overall I think not only the sky but all the shapes could use more gradation, you might try using a multiply or soft light layer and glazing your values.

Your #3: Some good values going on, good amount of depth. Could be pushed just a bit further. Again, multiply or soft light layer - glaze them puppies! Oh, or you could use dodge and burn (though I don't recommend using that so much with color, it's perfect for black and white). I prefer the fence the way it was in the thumbnail, it lead the eye more powerfully - the angle of it that is. Trees are looking nice, good addition. I do miss the white flowery bits and the birds - the birds really broke up the space. I think I liked your cloud shapes better too :\. Not sold on the figure either :/ I feel like I am being a jerk right now, but I don't want to hold back either - just know that I am not trying to offend, only trying to help. I'm not sure but I think I liked the placement of the figure in the thumbnail as well. Hey! Does he have a dog in the new one? :O

Frank's #7 The change in values is great, I like the sky a lot too - ooh and stairs! :D. Figure I think lost a little character that came from the pose - it's a bit small but he seems a bit startled in the thumbnail. The leftmost edge of the bright inside part of the gateway is in the direct center of the canvas - makes things a bit static I think. You could either crop or extend the canvas - this is something I do quite a bit honestly :|. Also looks like you might turn the spacing on your brush down a bit, getting the ()()()()()() effect. Something else to play around with is bloom, having light sources kind of mmm.. bloom is a hard thing to explain. Sort of like when you come out of a movie theatre and your eyes have to readjust to the sunlight, or a light in a dusty room? That sort of thing. /ramble

Your #5: It's good to see you playing with shapes like this cave ceiling - but keep in mind you should make all major changes like this in the thumbnail stage! (This is not to say you shouldn't make major changes later, but the idea is you shouldn't have to!) Waterfalls are nice, leads the eye a bit. I think you have lost some depth from the thumbnail - mainly from lack of aerial perspective. I'd like to see the extreme foreground distinguish itself a little more from the midground. The cave ceiling would benefit greatly from a clean deliberate edge ( not necessarily sharp nor consistant - just refined).

Ok dude, feels like I bagged on you a ton - but I do think you are getting loads better and getting a better handle on your brushes - not to mention I can litterally see the thought you've put into composition. :)

Frank!
Your #6: Yup, that changed a ton - and I think for the better. I do miss the darker shapes in the foreground from the thumbnail - added quite a bit of depth. You might hit up the background with a huge airbrush at a very low flow and give it a little atmosphere. Your shapes could use a little more refinement not only to buff out the digital brushstrokes but also to further distinguish them from the other shapes - those that border the sky especially. Neatness counts! So very very much. You know how a chickenscratch line looks next to a clean confident line?

Ben's #6: Mm, yeah nighttime is hard. You've really got to limit your value range - you can still use pure white and pure black, but you have to limit what is light and what is dark. Also keep in mind things like water - unless illuminated otherwise won't be bright as they are no longer reflecting a bright sky. I miss the trees and mist from ben's what didn't you like about them? Try not to change things too much from the sketch or thumbnail - to state differently try to nail the composition IN the thumbnail. (Even though it wasn't yours :O) Remember also that due to the lack of contrast your edges probably won't be as sharp at night - again unless illuminated.

Your #4: Wait what? This is number 4? :O It's completely different! Instead of scrubbing everything out when something doesn't work - it pays to figure out why it doesn't work. I do like this one however, good depth, values and an interesting structure as well as shapes - yeah a nice variety of shapes. *high five*

Ben's #2: I prefered the figure where it was - by having him next to your only other shapes in the foreground you've dramatically reduced the depth. You could put some other shapes in the foreground sure - but why fix what isn't broken? Nice pose though! You might also break up the mountain line in the background, try to give things variety to keep them interesting. Nice gradation in the sky and nice ground plane.

Looks like you are getting better with the brush duder, good work. You should pump some more thumbs out - you enjoying them at all yet?

Edit: Sorry, missed your 2nd post frankyfrank.
The merge, which by the way is ctrl+alt+shift+e (merge all on new layer) - I don't use overlay I generally use lighten and darken. It's a real nice mix!
The image: Cool, good aerial perspective. Mind that not only will values affected, but by no coincidence so will edges. I would soften them up the further you get out there. I'm glad that you are hitting the high exposure in most of these but it would be nice to see some darker skies from you - just for the sake of experimenation and explorationg (learninnnnng). Good to see more thought put into texture too! *high five*

Idiot Apathy

October 22nd, 2007, 10:49 PM

Assignment 3: 1 to 1 Photo Study
Emphasis Accuracy of Shape and Value
---
DUE DATE: Oct 30th (Or after halloween if it interferes :P)
---
Changing gears a little bit here, but I think this is a good spot to pause on the environments and focus on some building blocks.

Copying a photograph is a great way to learn via isolation. You do not have to create the subject, nor composition, nor value - so on and so for. By isolating what it is you want to study you can better focus upon it - divide and conquer. Here our focus is on accurate shapes and accurate values. It is my hope that this will teach you not only these necessary observational skills but a more efficient process, more complete brush control and blending.
---
Step Zero!
Notes! You'd better take notes! RAR! /m\

Step One!
Take this photograph:
223422
Apologies if you find it disturbing, I find it intriguing and oddly beautiful. I sounded like a sicko there huh? :| Anyhow, if you can't stand looking at it talk to me and I will find something else for you. It's got amazing lighting and values. I think it's a bear fetus? No clue.

Step Two!
Set it up in your graphic program of choice like so:
223420
Do note that the photograph is on a seperate layer and LOCKED! Can't tell you how many times I have painted on the photo layer :|

Step Three!
Block in the biggest shapes and values! Be as accurate as possible!

Step Four!
Check your big blocking shapes! Use negative space, angle checks and level line checks!

Step Five!
Block in the medium shapes of these big shapes!

Step Six!
See step four, minus big and insert medium!

Step Seven!
Small shapes!

Step Eight!
See step six, minus medium insert small!

Step Nine!
Rinse and repeat!

Step Ten!
Is it accurate both in shape and value? Don't forget to blend!

Step Eleven!
Crap, too many steps. Anyhow, post it up!

Cyclop3000

October 22nd, 2007, 10:56 PM

I'm going to go ahead and stick my nose in here, just to say this thread is great... and Idiot, your criticism, even on other people's art, is very helpful to us viewers.

I am sure it's hard work keeping up with all the critics and post here, but well worth it for the community. Keep up the excellent work, I'm liking this!

chaosrocks

October 22nd, 2007, 10:57 PM

fun!
Go idiot and lucky idiot studentia

Idiot Apathy

October 22nd, 2007, 11:00 PM

Thanks guys,
Found out it's a bradypus tridactylus - cute lil three toed sloth :D

Frank Wade

October 24th, 2007, 11:40 AM

Man, as I'm painting this, this thing is fucking crazy!

But, it is as you have said, strangely beautiful..

October 24th, 2007, 03:20 PM

hey idiot apathy, these exercises are awesome! tell me when you are accepting more ppls ^^

Ben V

October 29th, 2007, 05:32 PM

Ok here it goes:

Step 1:
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/6522/step01ni4.jpg

I bet you all agree with me this was the hardest step of all... HOURS of work!... right... moving on

Step 2:
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/8044/step02pb8.jpg

Blocking in some very basic Value's/Colors not running into much problems just yet.

Step 3:
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/769/step03zs7.jpg

Blocking in some basic shapes of the picture, trying to get the silhouette right. Also found out that there is rarely any pure white in nature, even tho at first glance I would've tought the bottom of the picture was pure white.

Step 4:
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5867/step05vj3.jpg

OH MY GOD ITS ALL WRONG! finding out the silhouette wasnt all that I tought it was and spending a lot of time trying to get it better.

Step 5:
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/7810/step06qv9.jpg

oh shit... its still all wrong, rehauling the silhoute again and adding further detail. If there is one thing I have learned from this it is that you have to spend some more time in the starting fase of blocking in, this will save you alot of time later on!

Step 6:
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5467/step07ys7.jpg

Doing some minor tweaks and cleaning it up a little, I'll call it done for now.

I hope the steps helped you in understanding my process a little Idiot Apathy! And now it's time to say goodbye to the cute little Sloth... I'll miss the little fellow!

EDIT:
Oh and in case you think I missed it, thanks alot for your critique idiot apathy, it really helped a ton!

Frank Wade

October 30th, 2007, 09:30 PM

Alright!

http://www.f.oceansend.com/2007/a3_s1.jpg

1. Set up the basic background. Right now I'm thinking about the gradation from top to bottom and alignment of windows.

http://www.f.oceansend.com/2007/a3_s2.jpg

2. Flipped the canvas to see mistakes easily. I blocked in my basic shapes. Mainly I am concerned about the blobs of value I see when I squint at the reference. I am trying to (at least somewhat) accurately represent each shape in my study.

http://www.f.oceansend.com/2007/a3_s3.jpg

3. Flipped again. I'm checking shapes, alignment, and refining more and more. I check negative spaces and adjust as needed.

http://www.f.oceansend.com/2007/a3_s4.jpg

4. Refinement, refinement, refinement. Starting to pay attention to soft and hard shadows.

http://www.f.oceansend.com/2007/a3_s5.jpg

5. Blending, refinement, and touch ups. I see many mistakes in the silhouette, mainly the head. No time though.. Going to call it finished.

http://www.f.oceansend.com/2007/a3_final.jpg
Definitely wasn't as good as I had anticipated, but I feel like I learned a lot.

Hope everything checks out.

Happy Halloween everyone! :yayca:

Frank Wade

November 1st, 2007, 11:39 PM

wow, mine is very skewed. :(

But, I have another enviro practice I did, was hoping for some feedback IA!

Thanks
http://www.f.oceansend.com/2007/mc1.jpg

Idiot Apathy

November 3rd, 2007, 10:12 PM

Ben: Step one is wrong! WRONG! ... haha. Step Two, this is how I often do it - however I've found that drawing or quickly sketching the basic shapes is even more helpful. Good work trying to focus on the silhoutte, looking real good at stage 3. Step4: Hahah, yeah man - it's lessons like what you learned here that make you remember to check and recheck before you get too far along. Looking good though. Step 5: Yes! Good man, more blocking in. Doesn't matter how rough and ugly it is - just get it in the right spot. Same with color, just get the right color and refine it later. Step 6: Good, it's getting there. Are you completely sick of it? I hope not because I am going to push you one step further. You are seriously just one step away from it behing great. Here is what I want you to do; crop in on both your painting and the reference and place them side by side again - focus solely on either Section A or Section B below. Get it as perfect as you can!
A231956 B231957

Frank: 1. Good man, starting with the background. Very smart. 2. Smart flipping back and forth too, very smart. Are your brushes set up with flow and opacity to pressure? Doesn't look like it for some reason? The edges left by the stroke are a bit sharp, not much blending going on. You might also try lowering the flow manually. Anyhow, good block in - not sure if there were any steps inbetween this and the last but you might block in with a lower amount of values. Oh, and good on you for squinting to see the big shapes! *high five* 4. Good good! Really coming along. I do think you would save some time with a smoother brush, might change the hardness when you need it with shift+[ and shift+] (only on the default round). 5. Looks pretty good man. I do think you've missed some of the subtleties in tone that were important as well as some of the edges and details in the face that distinquished different shapes from another. You too are just one step away from something really great and I'm going to push you one more step: Crop in on both your painting and the reference and place them side by side again - focus on either section A or section B (Go for section A unless you are tired to death of this).
A231954 B231955

Due Date: Sunday the 11th, sooner you complete however the sooner we can move on - and I think it's about time to switch up students? At least for a bit. So I would like to get at least one more exercise in after this.

Frank: Environment: Looks good dude, good approach to color. I think the blues are good but the reds could use a little more variation in hue and temperature. (Your blues got this variation most likely because they were painted on the red). Good shape building and rendering throughout. Looks like you are having fun dude, keep it up!

Frank Wade

November 4th, 2007, 01:59 PM

Awesome! Thanks IA, I will get on it. I too would like at least one more.

Thank you so much for all the mentoring, I can't believe it's already November!

Idiot Apathy

November 10th, 2007, 03:24 PM

Soooooooo, you guys going to have this done tomorrow? :O

Frank Wade

November 10th, 2007, 09:00 PM

I'm really sorry, I didn't have much time this week, I have been working a lot at my new job.

I'm not satisfied with this, but have to call it done. Cropped to the A version.

http://www.f.oceansend.com/2007/assignment_3part2_final.jpg

Ben V

November 11th, 2007, 03:42 PM

not really happy with this one, keep seeing all these little flaws, guess I have to call it done.

http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/7020/assignment5it6.jpg

Idiot Apathy

November 11th, 2007, 05:40 PM

Frank: No need to apologize to me dude :) Am I right in assuming you didn't especially enjoy this exercise? Nothing wrong with that, but I'm interested to know why. Anyhow; pretty good man. The big shapes are there, it's fairly accurate and you have some nice transitions. I would have liked (I won't make you pick it back up haha) to see more attention to edge strength especially on the exterior edges. More love could have gone into refining your shapes and cleaning up brushstrokes as well. Though painful I hope you got something out of it. Anyhow dude, it's a very hard thing to do and you should be happy with your success.

Ben: Hahaha, what is with both of you saying I will have to call it done? You guys really did not enjoy this huh? :) I'd be interested to hear why, maybe I can refine the project as I think it's very important. I would have liked to see more care put into refining your shapes and cleaning up brushstrokes as well as attention to edge strength. I think your shapes are pretty accurate and the big shapes are all there. It looks as though you have color picked from the reference? This is fine if you want to focus on other things, but realize that this takes the value perception gained out of the equation. Like I told Frank, very hard thing to do and you should be happy with your successful results. Though painful I hope you got something out of it.

I wanted to understand a little better what was going on in your heads as you did this, I wanted to see what was troublesome. So I painted it last night; Man that head is hard!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v13/Ragnarok27/Untitled-1-5.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v13/Ragnarok27/h.jpg
PSD: http://www.divshare.com/download/2721310-39b
For a closer look if you'd like, more steps saved in layers.

Ben V

November 12th, 2007, 04:12 AM

I think the reason why I did not really enjoy this exersise in particular is because I had a lot of other things going on in real life. Therefor not being able to spend as much time on it as I would've liked (hence the color picking).

I do see the importance of these sorts of exersises tho and I think I will completly redo this exercise once I have some more time on my hands (soon hopefully). Tho I do have one question, wich is something I have been having alot of problems with. I am mostly able to do a rough version of anything, after wich I get to the point of finishing it up. At this point I have no clue how to push it forward without making it worse than the actual sketch. Same happened in this particular assignment, I get the roughs in and it looks decent, then I get to the finishing stage and just have no idea what to do to get my shapes clean.

This is getting increasingly frustrating for me with pressure from work/school to get my "awesome idea's" finished and just keep getting them sent back to me by the art director saying "it's missing something but I dont know what". It's not like I dont see that there is something wrong, it's just that I have no idea what to do to fix the problem.

Any help would be really appreciated and I want to thank you again Idiot Apathy for all these great assignments, they really helped me in many ways. to bad it has been a month already...

geez... time really flies.

Frank Wade

November 12th, 2007, 07:03 PM

Yes, Thanks IA!

I liked this assignment, I just got a little burnt out towards the end. After working on it a few times and checking out your version, I definitely understand more about the importance of the silhouette.

I think I learned a lot, and all of it was great practice. Thanks man.

Hopefully I will see you in Seattle.

Idiot Apathy

November 12th, 2007, 09:45 PM

Ben: Gotcha dude. Got to take care of real life, that stuffs meant to be enjoyed. As for pushing the rough version - that's exactly what this exercise is for. I would recommend doing something similar yet smaller and really trying to nail it. You'll get a process down soon enough as well as learning how to better paint - all this will apply across the board, not just studies. Hit me up if you want to give it a shot when you are ready and I will help if I can. Sounds like you have a bad art director - it's very much their job to guide you. You probably know what you are doing but it might be worth some prodding to get some information from them. There is nothing worse than wasting your time and then having to go back to the very same waste again and again. It's bad for both of you, very bad. Cheers dude!
Frank: Cool dude, glad it was good - I think it's normal to get burned out on this sort of thing, I should have just had you guys do the fetus and nothing else. SEATTTLLLLTUUUUULLLLL! Hell yes.

Any idea what you guys would like to focus on for the last assignment?

Frank Wade

November 13th, 2007, 11:35 AM

YES!! One last assignment, I'm very glad. I understand if it has to be short, here are my ideas:

1. Character Design
2. Color Environments

Ben V

November 13th, 2007, 03:19 PM

Oh man idiot apathy, dont get me started on my art director... haha...

anyway, I agree with frank that it might be a good idea to get some character design in just to contradict what we have been doing all along. tho obviously color environments would be a good idea too, because man, I need to learn to work with colors.

Frank Wade

November 13th, 2007, 04:40 PM

So, what shall it be, Idiot Apathy?

Idiot Apathy

November 13th, 2007, 05:26 PM

kekeke, I'm still at work! Though I don't do much character design I think I can set up a good exercise, it will be a bit of a beta so if you don't mind being guinea pigs lets do it.

Frank Wade

November 13th, 2007, 05:59 PM

Let's do it.

Idiot Apathy

November 14th, 2007, 11:25 PM

Right then: Step one!

Premise: As you create a character do not simply doodle until you find something interesting - though this has it's purpose it should only be one tool under your belt - as all tools should. Think of a premise for your character, who are they? what is their personality? background and history? Think of these things and whatever else can give you a clear picture of WHO you are about to draw before you have even made a mark. In all things - know what you are doing before you do it and you will achieve better results. (Again, as a huge fan of reactive or chaotic design - there is a place for this as well)

So, for part one - WHO are you doing to draw? Give me a paragraph, double spaced in MLA format - ok just kidding, give me a few sentences about who you are drawing.

Frank Wade

November 15th, 2007, 11:18 AM

haha

When I read "Double-spaced in MLA format", I was like, "Whaaaaaaaaat!! MLA!!"

I am going to try and flesh out and figure out WHO the main character of my personal project is going to be. All I know right now, she is female!

I will throw in my description by today, most likely.

stoph

November 15th, 2007, 07:30 PM

damn thats some good work you guys are getting done. really like the latest sloth paintings. not to hijack your thread, but keep it up, youre being watched... :perv:

Frank Wade

November 17th, 2007, 07:10 PM

Ahh!! Sorry IA, I will decide soon...

Stoph - Thanks!

Idiot Apathy

November 18th, 2007, 12:20 AM

Bennybenben?

Ben V

November 18th, 2007, 07:25 PM

Dont worry IA, I am watching. Will post my char description tomorrow afternoon.

Idiot Apathy

November 19th, 2007, 10:25 PM

*cough* knew I should have put a deadline... :O

Ben V

November 20th, 2007, 03:34 AM

mmm... this was actually harder than I tought it would be. Hard to come up with something without pulling out every single Cliché known to mankind.

ah well, here it goes:

age: 31
Sex: Male
Race: Human
Background Story: Working 9 to 5 at a tax company is his every day life. In his free time he is always inventing the most bizzare of creations. Noone really knows what they do, or what their purpose is, tho he claims that they will save the world some day. Especially his latest invention...

EDIT: mm hope this isnt to short for a discription, if so let me know.

Frank Wade

November 20th, 2007, 08:07 PM

I am designing a 23 year old male living in a post-apocalyptic metropolis. He was the last remaining survivor of a world wide, depression-inducing, chemical outbreak that occurred in 2314.

He lost his family, his dreams, and any chance for a good life. The man spends his days traveling and exploring, trying to find some meaning or reason to go on. He collects any food, clothes and drugs he comes across. He has gone partially insane.

Usually seems dazed and out of touch, he is constantly consuming a very potent, long lasting hallucinogen that can put the user in a state of conscious, lucid dreaming.

During the time he is under the drugs influence, he is accompanied by a large, pure white dog which he calls Enma. The man usually spends hours a day following Enma to "the others" and mumbling verses of an alien language.

Idiot Apathy

November 20th, 2007, 10:26 PM

Ben: Haha, sometimes you just can't avoid the clichés; lord knows hollywood and the videogame industry rarely do :O. What to think about; what visually sets this guy out from the crowd? He needs to be unique and memorable - it's not simple what he does, it's who he is. What do you want to say about him and how do you say it? Is he a small nervous guy? A big confident guy? Consider his inventions as props, however he needs to stand alone as well. I don't think he needs to be too far out of the ordinary - he just needs to read as who his character is you know?
Frank: Kekeke, is this a pseudofuturisticautobiography? Anyhow, I like it! Not sure it needs a date, maybe that makes it a bit more mysterious and less cheese? I think you've got a lot here to build up the visual aspects of his character - a great start for what's next. What visually about him is going to say a traveller? How would you describe his dazed appearance? Can you make this guy appealing yet sell how down on his luck and miserable he is?

Part Two: DUE: Tuesday the 27th (sooner the better though :P)
Give me 10 possible visual components that sell this character. Everything from body type, hair color, attire - expression, so on and so forth. Tell me what this component is and why it contributes.
Give me 3 possible scenes that illustrate as powerfully as you can who this person is. Again, describe the scene and why it contributes.

Give me 3 possible visual components that sells your partners character. Everything from body type, hair color, attire - expression, so on and so forth. Tell me what this component is and why it contributes.
Give me 1 possible scene that illustrates as powerfully as you can who this person is. Again, describe the scene and why it contributes. (also your partners character)

All on paper still!

Shadowfang

November 21st, 2007, 07:07 PM

Hello, my name is Ryan Logan.

i was curious as to if this thread was still alive? if it is, i was wondering of a Student position?. if that is at all possible, if not then thats just fine ^^, no worrie's,. i appreciate all answers, and respect the wish's of any giving them.

a little heads up on the work i do (dont have a scanner right now, im at my friends) i work in Anime-Concept Art, its fun stuff, i've been self taught (failed my first art class (honesties key to living) not because my work wasnt quality, lets just say, i coulda passed off of extra credit XD) im in my 8th year of practice now, and i've improved quiet a lot since last year, only, im finding that i want to make my work far more detailed than it is.

im not the best shader in the world, im fairly good at it, enough so that you can see why it was meant to be shaded. my work, is also not bad, i mean, it looks good, pending on the view of others, but to me, its quiet nice for 8 years of self teaching ^^!, well, just curious, if there are any positions, or what not, let me know. thanks.

~Ryan

Frank Wade

November 23rd, 2007, 09:36 PM

Kekeke, is this a pseudofuturisticautobiography?

hahaha .... maybe. Let's hope.

I had a question. You said he needs to be able to stand alone, I understand that, but could I chose Enma (his dog that he sees) as something that sells my character?

Frank Wade

November 23rd, 2007, 09:37 PM

Idiot Apathy

November 23rd, 2007, 11:26 PM

hahaha .... maybe. Let's hope.

I had a question. You said he needs to be able to stand alone, I understand that, but could I chose Enma (his dog that he sees) as something that sells my character?

Mm, definitely. Just understand if you rely on Enma to say too much and if he isn't shown with Enma he may not be as strong a character. I do think it's probably your best "scene" to show him with the dog ;)

Frank Wade

November 25th, 2007, 11:44 AM

Ok cool, I agree. I have a few written out, this is kind of hard. I already can picture this guy in my head though, I could really see how this kind of understanding for who you are drawing would help the process.

Ben V

November 26th, 2007, 05:49 PM

Visual Components:

Body Type: Skinny
Hair: Tho always attempting to get it as strict and clean as possible, his hair does not agree with him and it always ends up in a mess.
Hair Color: Dark brown/Black.
Facial Expression: His base expression is slightly paranoid and insecure.
Clothing: Most of the time he just wears a black suit, tho every now and then he spices things up with a funky tie.
Clothing Size: All his clothes are slightly too big for his posture, this to make him look more clumsy.
Length: A little above average height, about 1.95 meters high (to make him seem more clumsy and shy)
Base pose: Slightly slanted (To further push the fact that he is very insecure).
Props: He always carry's 3 different colored pen's in his chest pocket, just in case. Tho noone is really sure if it are really pens or just one more of his silly inventions.
Feet: His feet are exceptionally large, is he only hiding his feet in there or is there more? (to further push the clumsy aspect)

Scene's:

1. Running into his office because he is late, only half dressed tripping over his own feet while attempting to drink his morning coffee he storms into his cubical.

2. He is secretly drawing out scemetics like a madman for his latest crazy idea at work, trying his best to let noone see what he is doing.

3. Standing in line to get his paycheck while nervously looking around, He doesn't like big masses of people.

Frank's Character:

Visual Components:

1. During his travel he seems to have lost one of his eyes and has replaced it with the cheapest glass eye he could find. When moving his head he has to be carefull that the eye doesnt roll out of his socket. I think this would be a addition to the character to further push him as the image of a outcast of society.

2. During the chemical outbreak, while trying to save his family, he got badly injured on his right arm. A huge scar now runs from elbow all the way down tho his fingers always reminding him of this terrible day.

3. Due to his heavy drug use his cheeks have fallen in and he has a overall skinny posture.

Scene:

While wandering some barren wasteland he spots something in the distance, after rubbing his eyes and looking again he notices it are people, not just any people it appears to be his family! As he starts running towards them he slowly begins to realise that this has to be the drugs work and as he comes closer and closer the silhouettes he once tought were his family apear to be just rocks.

Frank Wade

November 28th, 2007, 11:31 AM

Part Two

10 - Visual Components that Sell Character

1. Shaggy, dirty, poorly cut hair, tied and bound with copper wire. It shows he leads a rough life, mostly out the elements. It shows how unimportant it is to worry about ones appearance in the current state of the world.

2. His eyes are dull, usually unmoving. He stares at the ground usually, and squints often. Because of this, he has an unusual air about him, something always seems missing.

3. His clothes are torn and don't fit well. This shows an aspect of this man being a scavenger. Taking what he can get.

4. Receding hair line. Maybe from stress? Maybe purely genetic, who knows. This gives the character a older, more experienced look.

5. His worn out sneakers he found. They are pretty shaggy and falling apart, but they where the best he could find that fit. He sews on a button everytime he is forced to kill someone, so he will never forget.

6. Whenever reminded of his family from before the Outbreak, he laughs. He cannot and has not cried in 13 years. He has felt pain unimaginable, but will not allow himself to shed a tear for his family. He can be seen often
somewhere inbetween laughter and confusion.

7. His fingernails or chipped, broken and dirty. His fingers swollen, bloody. His rough hands show how hard he tries to find food and supplies. Digging and breaking through rubble. There is a constant layer of dirt on him.

8. When he fights, he is wild. He favors unpredictable movements over straight forward attacking. His favorite weapons (given availability) are small knifes. He tries to suprise his enemies by dropping down on them and
stabbing multiple times. This shows the character is becoming more and more violent and animilistic.

9. He always carries a side pouch with him. He keeps his dearest possesions in it. Inside is a picture of his family. A small pocket knife, and pills of different sorts. Occasionally he stores fruit in this pouch if he is lucky enough to find it.

10. He can parkour, pretty well too. This may sound silly, but it was his favorite form of excersice before the outbreak. He has sense relized that he has survived this long thanks to his ability to escape. He always finds
overlooked supplies by reaching points that others cannot. This shows some talent that has led to his survival. Although, he is often to weak to keep it up for long.

Scenes-

1. Standing atop rubble from a broken down building, he stands holding his binoculars in one hand and grabbing tightly onto Enma at his side.. Vials of unmarked substances lay about his worn out sneakers. He wears a dull,
lifeless gaze as he peers out into the wasteland.

This illustrates a major aspect of life in general after the outbreak. You do what you can and then you move on. He has adapted to this lifestyle in a way, and always "finds Enma" before he sets off into the wastes.

2. Having taken refuge inside an old office building, he has made his way up to the highest remaining floors. Searching through a dark hallway, he kicks in a locked door, only to find the corpse of a young girl inside. As he sends Enma in to check it out, he slides down the wall and sits down leaning against it. Gazing into the room across the hall and begins to laugh uncontrollable and hides his face in his hands. He doesn't like Enma to see him like this.

This shows he still strong connection to the family he lost. Nearly every corspe he comes across reminds him of his daughter. It also shows the mental instability brought about from his lifestyle in the way that he
laughs when in immense sorrow.

3. A fresh corspe lay behind him, as he sqauts forward, shielding himself from the sand behind a large tanker. There is a dull, bloody knife on the sand next to him. He face in extreme anguish, he raises a small vial of bright blue dust and snorts it quickly. You can see crudely sewn buttons line his left sneaker.

He is a killer. You have to be in this environment. This shows he takes what he needs, but still feels some remorse. He doesn't want to forget the lives he has taken, no matter how painful. Hopefully this shows a slight redeeming quality to him.

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Ben's Character

1. Simple, neatly fitting clothes that are clean and ironed. He is somewhat obsessive about keeping clean clothes. This could show how the character feels about their outward appearance and reflect the cleanliness that maintain in their life. Everything about him is uniform except his inventions, which represent his wild, creative side.

2. Carries a gold pocketwatch, and is always concerned with the time. This shows he is a somewhat busy man, spending much time on his inventions and is always itching to get back to them.

3. After years of inventing things, he made a huge decision to hopefully help him out in the long run. He turned his left arm into a mechanical arm. This shows his dedication to his inventions. It also helps him construct them quicker and more securely.

The scene:

1. Deep underneath his suburbian house, he has a massive workshop filled with mechanical odds and ends. He can be seen in the light of a desk lamp, making final tweaks to his newest creation. His face is stern, focused. This scene illustrates his main passion and the time he spends on it. You can see from his workshop how this man's life is based on his creations.

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So sorry it took so long! Well, I'm off to work!